More evidence of Apple Pay surfaces in latest iOS 8.1 beta release [u]

Posted:
in iPhone edited October 2014
An Apple Pay setup screen discovered in the latest iOS 8.1 beta 2 suggests Apple's next iOS update will in fact debut alongside the company's much-anticipated mobile payments system, which uses NFC connectivity to conduct secure transactions via iPhone 6 and 6 Plus handsets.


Source: Hamza Sood via Twitter


The Passbook setup screens, which show options to enter credit card numbers and shipping addresses, was discovered by developer Hamza Sood, who subsequently posted the above screenshot to Twitter on Tuesday. While not unequivocal proof that Apple Pay will be baked in to the release of iOS 8.1, the credit card input option strongly hints that a rollout is coming in the near future.

Today's findings jibe with an Apple Pay details Sood uncovered within the Passbook settings menu of Apple's first iOS 8.1 beta, which was released in late September.

Apple Pay was announced at Apple's iPhone 6 event and is scheduled to roll out sometime in October. The touchless payments system marks Apple's long-awaited entrance into the digital wallet market and comes with support for Touch ID authentication, secure enclave credit card storage and tokenized transactions with point-of-sale terminals at select retail outlets. At launch, some 220,000 locations will accept Apple Pay.

Update: Additional pictures added to original story.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 25
    I just had my card replaced this week thanks to Home Depot.

    I am so ready for this to be here.
  • Reply 2 of 25
    The Passbook setup screens, which show options to enter credit card numbers and shipping addresses...

    Since it appears that you can input your card numbers and address into Passbook... can you use any credit or debit card?

    Or does it have to be issued from one of those 6 approved banks?

    I bank with a small local bank... but my debit card has all the right stuff: name, card number, expiration date, security code, and a VISA logo...

    I guess I'm a little confused as to why only certain banks are compatible with Apple Pay. What does it mean for a bank to be a participating bank?
  • Reply 3 of 25
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    I'm definitely not getting access to it in 8.1b2, but the new beta did resolve my wonky BT audio gremlin for voice calls.
  • Reply 4 of 25
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Since it appears that you can input your card numbers and address into Passbook... can you use any credit or debit card?

    Or does it have to be issued from one of those 6 approved banks?

    I bank with a small local bank... but my debit card has all the right stuff: name, card number, expiration date, security code, and a VISA logo...

    I guess I'm a little confused as to why only certain banks are compatible with Apple Pay. What does it mean for a bank to be a participating bank?

    I'm guessing it means that ?Pay will query those participating financial institutions to get a representational card number that it will store locally in the secure element. If your bank doesn't offer that representational number and PIN option it'll simply store your regular number, perhaps with a warning that your bank sucks monkey balls (scientifically speaking, of course). :D
  • Reply 5 of 25
    solipsismx wrote: »
    I'm guessing it means that ?Pay will query those participating financial institutions to get a representational card number that it will store locally in the secure element. If your bank doesn't offer that representational number and PIN option it'll simply store your regular number, perhaps with a warning that your bank sucks monkey balls (scientifically speaking, of course). :D

    But do you have to belong to those certain banks in order to use Apple Pay?

    I realize those 6 banks (and 5 upcoming banks) are huge... but there are hundreds of local and regional banks all across America.

    Seems like Apple will be leaving out a lot of users if they only allow a handful of banks.
  • Reply 6 of 25
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    But do you have to belong to those certain banks in order to use Apple Pay?

    I realize those 6 banks (and 5 upcoming banks) are huge... but there are hundreds of local and regional banks all across America.

    Seems like Apple will be leaving out a lot of users if they only allow a handful of banks.

    1) I don't know. Maybe they will limit ?Pay card inclusions to participating banks simply to force the others to get on board faster, as well as keep secure, which may have been a requirement for the deals with they made.

    2) Based on what I've seen with my various bank and CC companies practicallty spamming me with emails and website announcements with ?Pay I'd say they are all pretty stoked about it. For that reason I have to assume that cost for them to set it up compared to what they expect tol gain — or rather not lose from fraud — has to be quite high, which means all others will follow suit quickly.
  • Reply 7 of 25
    solipsismx wrote: »
    1) I don't know. Maybe they will limit ?Pay card inclusions to participating banks simply to force the others to get on board faster, as well as keep secure, which may have been a requirement for the deals with they made.

    2) Based on what I've seen with my various bank and CC companies practicallty spamming me with emails and website announcements with ?Pay I'd say they are all pretty stoked about it. For that reason I have to assume that cost for them to set it up compared to what they expect tol gain — or rather not lose from fraud — has to be quite high, which means all others will follow suit quickly.

    But that's what I'm curious about... what does "get on board" entail?

    I just looked it up... and there are over 5,000 banking institutions in the United States... :wow:

    That's a lot of deals that have to be made with Apple. So I wonder what it takes to become an "Apple Pay" bank?

    My bank is not the biggest... but it's certainly not the smallest. If we were to list all the banking institutions by the number of branches in the US... mine would rank #168.... out of over 5,000. So maybe there's hope!

    You're right... banks should be excited to offer Apple Pay for their customers. There are tons of benefits.

    Let's hope more banks sign up soon.
  • Reply 8 of 25
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    But that's what I'm curious about... what does "get on board" entail?

    My two guesses are:

    1) Any card be stored in the secure element and used like Google Wallet right now but to be a participating ?Pay financial institution you need get with Apple so they can add your bank to the Passbook DB that will securely send you card number and generated PIN* to your bank's secure address to get the representational number to be stored locally.

    2) Only the participating financial institutions will let you add a card, unless how you can generate any Passbook pass you want, once there is a backend with each bank setup that will support your representational card number and generated PIN* to be stored with their server and then sent back to your local device to be stored in the secure element.

    My feeling is the latter and I don't think bank #168 in the country will have to wait too long for this to happen. I'm actually curious to know how long after (or before) ?Pay goes live do you get a website or email notification, or even see a sign in the bank about ?Pay. Have you tried to look it up on their site or asked them about it yet?


    * No idea where the PIN get generated but I don't think it matters.
  • Reply 9 of 25
    solipsismx wrote: »
    My two guesses are:

    1) Any card be stored in the secure element and used like Google Wallet right now but to be a participating ?Pay financial institution you need get with Apple so they can add your bank to the Passbook DB that will securely send you card number and generated PIN* to your bank's secure address to get the representational number to be stored locally.

    2) Only the participating financial institutions will let you add a card, unless how you can generate any Passbook pass you want, once there is a backend with each bank setup that will support your representational card number and generated PIN* to be stored with their server and then sent back to your local device to be stored in the secure element.

    My feeling is the latter and I don't think bank #168 in the country will have to wait too long for this to happen. I'm actually curious to know how long after (or before) ?Pay goes live do you get a website or email notification, or even see a sign in the bank about ?Pay. Have you tried to look it up on their site or asked them about it yet?


    * No idea where the PIN get generated but I don't think it matters.

    No... I haven't heard anything yet from my bank. But they do have an iOS app... so at least they're cognizant of Apple products! :D
  • Reply 10 of 25
    But that's what I'm curious about... what does "get on board" entail?

    I just looked it up... and there are over 5,000 banking institutions in the United States... :wow:

    That's a lot of deals that have to be made with Apple. So I wonder what it takes to become an "Apple Pay" bank?

    My bank is not the biggest... but it's certainly not the smallest. If we were to list all the banking institutions by the number of branches in the US... mine would rank #168.... out of over 5,000. So maybe there's hope!

    You're right... banks should be excited to offer Apple Pay for their customers. There are tons of benefits.

    Let's hope more banks sign up soon.

    There will be multiple aspects of partnering with Apple for this.

    There are lots of technology that has to be implemented on the banks side. When adding a card, Apple is querying the banks servers.

    Apple also expects the bank to store the 16-digit device account number that is generated.

    Plus, every time Apple Pay is used, it's the banks job to resolve the device account number and the dynamic security code to an actual card number. So, the bank has a lot of equipment to install and software to manage. Which would mean hiring and/or training staff on Apple's systems.

    Then there are the negotiations and contracts. Apple wants its cut of the interchange fee, and I'm sure this amount will vary from bank to bank. Apple will want a minimum term contract as to avoid the banks stabbing Apple in the bank, and to give Apple enough time to create Apple Pay as a brand.

    Then there are the regulatory boards, vetting and compliance that will have to go on at the banks server locations to make sure everything is absolutely secure.

    This process will take some time, but Apple when partnering with other companies is extremely valuable and demanding, and will help and make sure that banks are up and running asap.

    I just woke up so if this doesn't make sense I apologise.
  • Reply 11 of 25
    mazecookie wrote: »
    There will be multiple aspects of partnering with Apple for this.

    There are lots of technology that has to be implemented on the banks side. When adding a card, Apple is querying the banks servers.

    Apple also expects the bank to store the 16-digit device account number that is generated.

    Plus, every time Apple Pay is used, it's the banks job to resolve the device account number and the dynamic security code to an actual card number. So, the bank has a lot of equipment to install and software to manage. Which would mean hiring and/or training staff on Apple's systems.

    Then there are the negotiations and contracts. Apple wants its cut of the interchange fee, and I'm sure this amount will vary from bank to bank. Apple will want a minimum term contract as to avoid the banks stabbing Apple in the bank, and to give Apple enough time to create Apple Pay as a brand.

    Then there are the regulatory boards, vetting and compliance that will have to go on at the banks server locations to make sure everything is absolutely secure.

    This process will take some time, but Apple when partnering with other companies is extremely valuable and demanding, and will help and make sure that banks are up and running asap.

    I just woke up so if this doesn't make sense I apologise.

    Wow... thanks!

    That makes a lot more sense now. :)
  • Reply 12 of 25
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post





    But do you have to belong to those certain banks in order to use Apple Pay?



    I realize those 6 banks (and 5 upcoming banks) are huge... but there are hundreds of local and regional banks all across America.



    Seems like Apple will be leaving out a lot of users if they only allow a handful of banks.

     

    It would have made more sense for Apple to partner with Visa/MasterCard/AMEX rather than individual banks.  If they worked with the transaction processor, all card issuing banks could have been covered.

  • Reply 13 of 25
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 29,770member
    solipsismx wrote: »
    1) I don't know. Maybe they will limit ?Pay card inclusions to participating banks simply to force the others to get on board faster, as well as keep secure, which may have been a requirement for the deals with they made.

    2) Based on what I've seen with my various bank and CC companies practicallty spamming me with emails and website announcements with ?Pay I'd say they are all pretty stoked about it. For that reason I have to assume that cost for them to set it up compared to what they expect tol gain — or rather not lose from fraud — has to be quite high, which means all others will follow suit quickly.

    You know, a retailer would no longer have to be concerned about which credit card company is involved. That whole calculus is removed for them. They just say, "we take Apple Pay" and it doesn't matter which card you are paying with...they're all the same. It no longer matters if you have a "good" credit card or a "bad" one.
  • Reply 14 of 25
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by techguy911 View Post

     

     

    It would have made more sense for Apple to partner with Visa/MasterCard/AMEX rather than individual banks.  If they worked with the transaction processor, all card issuing banks could have been covered.




    For their implementation to work, they need to partner with the Visa/MC/AMEX and the banks.

     

    The reason, although only from my own knowledge would be:

     

    The retailers terminals, without being a special Apple Pay terminal (which they are not) have to work with existing payment systems.

    This means that the terminal processes a debit/credit card number and routes it to Visa/MC/AMEX depending on the first digit of the card (34 and 37 for AMEX, 4 for Visa, and between 51-55 for MC).

    But we know that Apple Pay doesn't send the real card number to the terminal. That means the device account number it generates must still start with the correct few digits, to route it to Visa/MC/AMEX correctly.

    Now, the device account number that is sent to one of these guys is not a real card number (although it is 16 digits long and starts with the correct digits) - which is where their partnership comes in.

    Visa/MC/AMEX must store their own database, that links a specific device account number to a bank.

    When the bank gets the device account number, it resolves it and it goes back down the chain.



    This way, it works with the conventional method of authorisation and moving money. But obviously needs both the banks and Visa/MC/AMEX.



    That's just my take, anyway.

     

    And it also doesn't piss off anyone. Both the banks and Visa/MC/AMEX will be thrilled that Apple decided to work with them, rather than cut them out.

  • Reply 15 of 25
    macbook promacbook pro Posts: 1,605member
    But do you have to belong to those certain banks in order to use Apple Pay?

    I realize those 6 banks (and 5 upcoming banks) are huge... but there are hundreds of local and regional banks all across America.

    Seems like Apple will be leaving out a lot of users if they only allow a handful of banks.

    In addition to the details provided by MazeCookie which are critically important to understanding the implementation of ?Pay there is another notable aspect of ?Pay. Banks have a strong incentive to adopt the necessary infrastructure of ?Pay as beginning in October 2015 between the merchant and the bank the entity with the least technological approach assumes full liability of fraudulent transactions. As a result, we will see ?Pay adopted very quickly.

    ?Pay is only now viable due to a confluence of events, including: increased number of fraudulent credit card transactions in Europe then the United States creating massive incentive for the adoption of EMV (Europay-MasterCard-Visa) standard in Europe and the United States (as well as Japan and China) and TouchID.
  • Reply 16 of 25
    jbdragonjbdragon Posts: 1,830member

    I had to replace my Wells Fargo Visa Debit card a couple weeks ago when someone tried buying Pills on a Saturday Morning a couple times.  Their Fraud department called me about it so in the end the transactions didn't go through, but once again I had to get a Temp card and then wait for the normal one in the mail.    

     

    This is the 3rd time now in as many years.  It's a real pain in the butt when I have to change my Credit Card number with everyone.  Netflix, Amazon, garbage company, and on and on.  What a hassle.

  • Reply 17 of 25
    mpantonempantone Posts: 1,342member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post



    I realize those 6 banks (and 5 upcoming banks) are huge... but there are hundreds of local and regional banks all across America.



    Seems like Apple will be leaving out a lot of users if they only allow a handful of banks.

    Probably not.

     

    Apple already has a very good idea of who the average iPhone user is just based on Apple ID registration. It is highly likely that the average iPhone user has multiple credit cards and one of those cards would be issued by the six major participating banks (or the five upcoming banks). Heck, the average American has multiple cards.

     

    The VISA I use for mundane daily purchases is from a small bank that isn't an Apple Pay participating bank, but I also have cards from American Express, Chase, and Bank of America.

     

    Now if you're a starving artist or some kid out of high school with no credit (and a sole secured card with a teeny limit from your neighborhood credit union), well, let's face it: you're not the target audience for Apple Pay. 

  • Reply 18 of 25
    boredumbboredumb Posts: 1,405member

    I realize that this is sorta tangential to this thread, but...

    Went to the Apple store in Santa Barbara to actually see the new phones

    (ours won't 'ship' till 10/24...aaarrrggh!).

     

    Turns out the word "sleek" has been redefined.

    Maybe also "svelte".

     

    But I was concerned to discover that iOS 8 seemed to be taking up 8GB roughly.

    iOS 7 on my 4 only uses 2.5GB, so if 8GB is accurate, then folks who buy the 16GB iPhones

    are fairly well screwed compared to the older iOS's storage uses.

    In settings it says capacity is only 56GB and then only about 47.8GB is available, so,

    if the second 8.2GB is the software they put on for floor demos, can that first 8GB really all be the OS?

    Can anyone with the new phones or even running 8.02 on a 4S/5/5S confirm this???

  • Reply 19 of 25
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    boredumb wrote: »
    But I was concerned to discover that iOS 8 seemed to be taking up 8GB roughly.
    […]
    In settings it says capacity is only 56GB and then only about 47.8GB is available, so,
    […]

    Seriously?! 64 Gigibytes = 64,000,000,000 bytes ? 59.60 Gibibytes

    . 59.6 GiB
    - 47.8 GiB
    .. 3.6 GiB

    In this case probably includes more code for the base OS so they can audit, restore, and have it launch demo screens after it's been sitting for a certain time frame. It's still a larger mobile OS but it's not 8GiB and have no idea why anyone in 2014 on this this site would think such a thing when it's clear that marketing capacity is done with BASE-10 values and the OS uses BASE-2.
  • Reply 20 of 25
    boredumbboredumb Posts: 1,405member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

     
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by boredumb View Post



    But I was concerned to discover that iOS 8 seemed to be taking up 8GB roughly.

    […]

    In settings it says capacity is only 56GB and then only about 47.8GB is available, so,

    […]


    Seriously?! 64 Gigibytes = 64,000,000,000 bytes ? 59.60 Gibibytes

    . 59.6 GiB

    - 47.8 GiB

    .. 3.6 GiB

    In this case probably includes more code for the base OS so they can audit, restore, and have it launch demo screens after it's been sitting for a certain time frame. It's still a larger mobile OS but it's not 8GiB and have no idea why anyone in 2014 on this this site would think such a thing when it's clear that marketing capacity is done with BASE-10 values and the OS uses BASE-2.

    Seriously?!

    I cannot believe that in 2014, everyone on this site is NOT an engineer...

    But thanks for reminding me why I was never tempted to become one.

    Does Apple still have them?  Because it looks like we are almost exactly 8 bases short, here,

    and that's almost two baseball games.

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