I know it's a PC, but geez...
<zips up flame retardant suit>
I bought an, um, *cough* PC *cough* today, out of necessity for work (don't worry, I haven't gone to the darkside full time).
Man, I've always know PCs were cheaper, but as a dedicated Mac user, I guess I've always tried to not really notice just how cheap they were.
If only Mac hardware were only priced like this....
This is what I got when I bought my PowerMac:
PowerMac G4 800
40 GB HD
256 MB SDRAM
24/10/32 CD-RW
RADEON 7500 32 MB Video Card
56K Modem
Ethernet
No Speakers
1 Year Warranty
$2549 CDN
This is what I just bought this afternoon:
AMD XP1800+
40 GB HD
256 MB DDR RAM
32/10/40 CD-RW
1.44 MB Floppy Dive
16x DVD-ROM Drive
GeForce2 MX 400 64MB Video Card
56K Modem
Harman Kardon 19.5 speakers
5 Year Warranty
$1549 CDN
Unfreakinreal. Ok, I don't really have a clue as to how the XP1800+ stacks up to the G4 800, but I'm sure it's not that much slower (if at all - I really don't know squat about PCs). I got DDR RAM, I got a faster CD-RW drive, I got a DVD drive, twice the video memory, a set of speakers (I know, they're not the best, but what the hell), and a 5 year warranty, and it cost me $1000 CDN even less than the PowerMac did. 40% less.
Of course I know this is a PC, and it's evil and all that. But STILL - kind of a shock. This is a system that my local Mac/PC dealer will build for me, I'll be picking it up Wednesday morning. I could have gotten it cheaper I'm sure if I built it myself, but I have neither the time or inclination to do so.
Anyway, I'm sort of excited about it in a weird way. I think it will be cool actually to be able to run XP and OSX - I'll be able to form my own opinions about XP, without just relying on what I read on the web. I'm not expecting anything amazing, but it really didn't seem that bad in the store. I'm interested in doing some things on both platforms like burning data and audio CDs, working with my digital photos, MP3 ripping, etc, and comparing the 2 OSes.
So, nothing anyone here didn't already know - PC hardware is cheap - but I felt like sharing it anyway. Can't wait to "do XP" and compare it to OSX. Wish me luck.
[ 04-08-2002: Message edited by: murbot ]</p>
I bought an, um, *cough* PC *cough* today, out of necessity for work (don't worry, I haven't gone to the darkside full time).
Man, I've always know PCs were cheaper, but as a dedicated Mac user, I guess I've always tried to not really notice just how cheap they were.
If only Mac hardware were only priced like this....
This is what I got when I bought my PowerMac:
PowerMac G4 800
40 GB HD
256 MB SDRAM
24/10/32 CD-RW
RADEON 7500 32 MB Video Card
56K Modem
Ethernet
No Speakers
1 Year Warranty
$2549 CDN
This is what I just bought this afternoon:
AMD XP1800+
40 GB HD
256 MB DDR RAM
32/10/40 CD-RW
1.44 MB Floppy Dive
16x DVD-ROM Drive
GeForce2 MX 400 64MB Video Card
56K Modem
Harman Kardon 19.5 speakers
5 Year Warranty
$1549 CDN
Unfreakinreal. Ok, I don't really have a clue as to how the XP1800+ stacks up to the G4 800, but I'm sure it's not that much slower (if at all - I really don't know squat about PCs). I got DDR RAM, I got a faster CD-RW drive, I got a DVD drive, twice the video memory, a set of speakers (I know, they're not the best, but what the hell), and a 5 year warranty, and it cost me $1000 CDN even less than the PowerMac did. 40% less.
Of course I know this is a PC, and it's evil and all that. But STILL - kind of a shock. This is a system that my local Mac/PC dealer will build for me, I'll be picking it up Wednesday morning. I could have gotten it cheaper I'm sure if I built it myself, but I have neither the time or inclination to do so.
Anyway, I'm sort of excited about it in a weird way. I think it will be cool actually to be able to run XP and OSX - I'll be able to form my own opinions about XP, without just relying on what I read on the web. I'm not expecting anything amazing, but it really didn't seem that bad in the store. I'm interested in doing some things on both platforms like burning data and audio CDs, working with my digital photos, MP3 ripping, etc, and comparing the 2 OSes.
So, nothing anyone here didn't already know - PC hardware is cheap - but I felt like sharing it anyway. Can't wait to "do XP" and compare it to OSX. Wish me luck.
[ 04-08-2002: Message edited by: murbot ]</p>
Comments
One thing I might suggest is you turn off the new Start Menu and restore it to the more logical Windows 2000 style, plus you get the icons back on the desktop. Then download PowerToys from Windows which allows you to customize the system in all different kinds of ways.
[ 04-08-2002: Message edited by: FotNS ]</p>
Murbot, your mac using days may be numbered. I'm starting to get the feeling that mine may be aswell. Weird. Never actually owned my own, and when I'm finally forced out of this lab at the end of August, I really don't know if I can justify the purchase of any mac at all. Not the over-priced desktops, nor the increasingly under-spec'd laptops.
Too bad. It was a really nice 2 years.
Murbot, keep us posted. There isn't a bigger Apple die hard than you, if XP proves good enough for you, Apple has a problem.
I am looking at getting new hardware soon.. and I need a new PC as much as I need a new Mac. So I'm looking at where I could spend my money...
Mac:
G4 dual @ 1GHz
1.5GB PC100 or PC133 SDRAM
Two 80GB IDE drives
DVD-RW/CD-RW (SuperDrive) (reads CDs at 24x, writes CDs/CD-RWs at 8x, and writes DVDs at 2x)
NVIDIA GF4MX with 64MB DDR-RAM
17" LCD Display and Apple Pro Speakers
I/O and slots: 2 USB (if keyboard and mouse are connected!), 2 FireWire, headphone/line-out (separate? don't know), ADC and VGA, 56k modem, 10/100/1000 ethernet, four supposedly open PCI slots, 1 used AGP slot.
$4,707.00 with no extras beyond that.
PC:
Pentium 4 @ 2GHz
512MB PC-DDR RAM
Two 120GB IDE drives
DVD-RW/CD-RW (reads CDs at 24x, writes CDs/CD-RWs at 8x, and writes DVDs at 2x)
MiniDisc drive
NVIDIA GF2MX with 32MB SDRAM
15" LCD Display and nice speakers plus subwoofer (wood-enclosed for best sound)
I/O and slots: 3 USB (two in front, one in rear), PLUS PS/2 mouse, PS/2 Keyboard, 2 FireWire, 1 serial, 1 parallel, DVI (basically a different ADC), VGA, 1 headphone out, 1 microphone in, stereo line in/out, S-Video in/out (!), S/P DIF Optical ports in/out, FM Antenna (75), VHF/UHF TV tuner plus TiVo-like features (GigaPocket), Memory Stick slot (plus "MagicGate" memory stick support), PCMCIA Card slot, 56k modem, 10/100 ethernet, 3 PCI slots (two occupied), 1 used AGP slot.
*comes with remote control.
$3608.98 without any extras beyond that.
I'm sure you'll be on a new PC before long...
I do plan on posting about my XPerience. Trying to keep a very open mind as I begin. Cool thing is, the latest version of Windows I've run in Windows ME - so I'm going to be seeing all of this for the first time (save 5 minutes looking in a couple folders at a demo PC).
Wednesday will be interesting. I'll have to make sure and wash my hands before going back to the Mac though.
[ 04-08-2002: Message edited by: murbot ]</p>
I'm covered for 3 years totally, and in years 4 and 5 I have to buy the crapped out hardware, but they'll do the work for free.
BTW, anyone know where I can buy a used B&W G3 carcass? Don't need the internals at all, lowest spec, cheapest version in existance would be fine.
Abit Nforce MB
Abit GF4mx400
16x Toshiba DVD
32x LITEON burner
Keyboard + mouse
256 PC2100 RAM
ATX case w/300 watt PS
Dr. Thermal cooling unit
$740 from newegg.com
In my experience, it turned out the "Mac way" really is worth the price difference. Yes, I was surprised too. I mean, you think to yourself, "they're both computers, how much difference could there really be? For 30% less money, I think I can deal with the little quirks" Well, those quirks add up, let me tell you.
After a little more than a year, I was willing and eager to give Apple the extra bonus dollars. I think it's mostly the tight hardware/software integration that does it. Even when you're trying to do interesting* things, you just have so few problems with a Mac. Yes, it's true, you can keep a Wintel box from crashing. Just don't touch it or try to do anything slightly out of the ordinary with it!
*Word processing and web surfing are not interesting.
[edit: ubby gubby]
[ 04-08-2002: Message edited by: spotbug ]</p>
<strong>Hey Matsu, I knew it wouldn't take you long to get here and get in on the "overpriced Mac" thing.
I'm sure you'll be on a new PC before long...
</strong><hr></blockquote>
I wouldn't be so sure about that. You have no idea how cheap I can be, at least about rapidly depreciating technology. As long as I have free access to equipment I pretty much refuse to buy my own (mac or PC). I'm still on a 300Mhz AMD -- built from the smoldering carcass of a pentium75 -- and truth be told, with a recent tune up given to it buy a friend it should at least be good for Office97, internet and e-mail for another 2-3 years -- I gave it more RAM; HDD's wiped & reformatted; complete driver update, win98 2nd ed installed from full version (was working off an update to win95 which should have been the same but wasn't really.) Burning a CD takes a lifetime, but office tasks and internet are acceptable. No nifty iMovie, or iTunes, but winamp runs fine, and I ussually put a CD on anyway, so no biggie.
The real deal breaker comes in Sept. No more free access, unless I make good friends with the dept, or take a class at this campus (which is close to home). I have enjoyed the mac experience, and have begun to seriously entertain doing more than just writing on the computer. If a digital camera and DV-video are on my list of gifts to myself, then a foray into the mac/adobe environment is in order. As good a pastime as any I think. But if PC's can do a comparable job (and at least for consumer video they don't yet) I have to consider that too. Portable package of course. Personally, that swings slightly in favor the mac. I already have a PC that could be used in a pinch to open any pesky files, or deal with, yikes... a 3.5" floppy, so I'm willing to give macs a try, or more properly a cheque, having already given them a healthy 'try.'
So, in a sense I'm counting a bit on reports like yours to verify the relative merits of each platform. The fastest PC I use regularly is a P2 400, though I've recently been quite impressed by the speed of a friends P4 1.6Ghz, and our macs are all Graphite DP533 and SP733's, there are also a lot of B&W G3's around other areas of the campus but I never use those labs. Also tried one Ti400 in store and actually used another (a prof's) a few times, both seemed very slow for machines of that price.
Am I just too cheap? Should I be spending more money on computers? Always seems a bit like throwing money away to me. Sometimes I really want to spend the money, but then I think it just isn't wise, the future will bring many monthly payments, and when I look around at how many other students will start work with debt, I don't feel so bad about being debt free and actually having just about enough cash for a down-payment on a little (very little) house. Not bad for a student my age, I think.
<strong>Athlon 1800 XP
Abit Nforce MB
Abit GF4mx400
16x Toshiba DVD
32x LITEON burner
Keyboard + mouse
256 PC2100 RAM
ATX case w/300 watt PS
Dr. Thermal cooling unit
$740 from newegg.com</strong><hr></blockquote>
I did say:
[quote]This is a system that my local Mac/PC dealer will build for me, I'll be picking it up Wednesday morning. I could have gotten it cheaper I'm sure if I built it myself, but I have neither the time or inclination to do so.<hr></blockquote>
That might save me about $280 CDN after shipping (from another site maybe - New Egg does not ship to Canada), but then I'd have to put the thing together. Never done that, and don't plan on starting with a "work" PC.
It's worth the couple hundred to have it done right. Anyway, wouldn't I have to buy a copy of XP on top of that price? That would erode much of the cost benefits.
[ 04-08-2002: Message edited by: murbot ]</p>
[ 04-09-2002: Message edited by: Patchouli ]</p>
<strong> *Word processing and web surfing are not interesting. </strong><hr></blockquote>
That's why you are here, practically doing both <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
XP2000+ (1.677Ghz)
MSI nForce K7N420 Pro mobo
512MB DDR Ram
40GB ATA133 7200rpm
Case + 350watt
32x CDR
16x DVD
ATI 8500 LE 64MB DDR
WinXP Pro
(mobo comes with USB2 and, finally, 10/100enet)
All this (excluding WinXP, no monitor) came out to about 1350USD (taxes included).
While it IS fast as lightnin' XP isnt all that great. If Windoze people complained before that MacOS is a mickey mouse os, then XP is like a Play-Doh OS. Its DEFINETLY better than previous Windos incarnations, but there are still many 'little' things that bug the hell out of me. Some things just dont work.
So, yes, PC hardware is OBVIOUSLY cheaper, and Windoze is catching up, and OS X better get its damn shape together, Apple still has the edge over all. Not for long... but they still have it.
The ONLY reason I would buy a PC is to have a good gaming platform. Im not going to spend 3x the amount to play the same games 10x worse. To have good gaming on Mac hardware, and get comparable results to a medium-high end PC, you have to go with a Dual 1Ghz.... and thats just insane.
Access better than Filemaker Pro ? The only thing I still use the PC for is Powerpoint, and I'm not sure I'd be willing to endure all the Microsoft handcuffs that come with XP for that.
We have almost a hundred Dell boxes now in our school and they are used for nothing but WP apart from our computing Dept., one of whom remarked smugly to me the other day that he didn't see how i could like macs when they couldn't even delete forwards <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
Even Sony realizes that the time the PC has as 'the' gaming platform is dwindling. About a month ago, they made an ultimatum to Verant (runs Everquest, MMORPG). Sony invested a huge amount of money in to Verant to get them to develop Everquest for the PS2.
After a while, Verant said it couldn't be done and that the networks would never be compatible. Sony, however, didn't buy it, and using their leverage, announced today that the new/next Everquest will be on the PS2 and be broadband only. I personally don't care for Everquest and never have (suicides resulting from it make it that much worse or a game), but the fact that the next Everquest expansion will be the final chapter on the PC has to make you wonder.
Any way, back to the PC. I hope you like it, but if I were you, I'd investigate into Linux. A buddy at work has his Dell laptop running the New KDE (3.0) and can 'emulate' all of the apps he needs to run without losing speed. It's pretty cool actually, and with MS starting it's .net strategy (essentiallly dot 'pay a bill to MS every month net'), you might want to have something to fall back on.
<strong>Patchouli, which office apps are you talking about ? I have to use PCs at my school and gave up using Word after a decent attempt of about two months because it was taking me almost half an hour trying to remove all the little intuitive bullet points and replace all the removed indents etc just to print out an agenda for our Dept. meeting. A horrific experience with the most uninuitive WP app ever.
Access better than Filemaker Pro ? The only thing I still use the PC for is Powerpoint, and I'm not sure I'd be willing to endure all the Microsoft handcuffs that come with XP for that.
We have almost a hundred Dell boxes now in our school and they are used for nothing but WP apart from our computing Dept., one of whom remarked smugly to me the other day that he didn't see how i could like macs when they couldn't even delete forwards
I am talking about Office 2000 and or Office XP. They are so fast, stable and well integrated with the OS that I find it's a better experience than on the Mac with Office X (which is definitely inferior to Office XP). I am much more productive in Word, Excel, PowerPoint and Outlook on my PC versus my Mac. I don't use database software so I can't compare.
Can't get rid of bullet points? You could remove all formatting in about 3 seconds. IMHO, MS Word is hands down the best, most feature rich and most easy to use WP app available. I've used the others - and they suck in comparison. Many people slag both Mac OS and Windows XP simply because they don't know how to use them or are unfamiliar with them - which means they don't understand them.
[ 04-09-2002: Message edited by: Patchouli ]</p>