MWNY: Apples last chance...

in General Discussion edited January 2014
I'm am a very unhappy longtime Apple user (I have owned:Apple][e, Apple][gs, MacIIci, Mac530c, Quadra650, PowerPC 8500, and PowerBookG3).

I really want to buy a new Mac, but Apple has not made one that's worthwhile buying in quite awhile. When I purchased my previous Apple computers they were all as powerful as their WinTel counterparts (sometimes a little ahead, sometimes a little behind). For over a year I've been waiting for Apple to come out with a computer that is as fast as the ones on the PC side, only to be disappointed again and again. I don't mind spending more money on a Mac then I would on a comparable PC, but I can't bring myself to spend thousands of dollars on a Mac that is only 70% as powerful as a PC.

For less money then the cost of the top dual 1GHz PPC I can get a system using dual 1.67 GHz Athlons with 266 DDR and built in RAID. This system smokes Apple's top of the line PPC and would leave me with enough money left over to switch my important software over to the windows version. The only problem is I DON'T WANT TO GIVE UP MY MAC!!! I love my Macs, I attend MWNY expos, I read all the rumor sites, and I am a card carrying member of the Mac community. Suffice it to say that I am very comfortable with the OS and don't want to switch to windows.

For me MWNY is going to be Apple's last chance. I am holding out for another few months, hoping that Apple will come out with something that will blow the competition away and let me finally upgrade without regrets. I just hope that Jobs realizes that if Apple does not come out with something a lot more powerful at MWNY, that a lot of the old faithful will give up and finally walk away... and what will happen to Apple if it starts losing long time advocates like me? (I know that there are a lot of other Mac users out there that feel the same way that I do...)

What do I consider a good enough Mac?


1.6 GHz Dual G4s

A new motherboard with:


Bus should be at lest 266

built in RAID



Truthfully, if the new PowerBook had come out in 1.2GHz model I would be typing on one right now.

Of course I want G5s and all sorts of other goodies, but it I'm not listing my dream machine, I'm listing the minimum I would accept. And I don't think that I'm asking for too much...

Sorry about the rant -- I am just getting so frustrated with Apple's underpowered computers that I had to vent.


  • Reply 1 of 40
    Since so many people before me have done it to many similar posts, I feel it is time I do too.

    Quit whining. If you really want to get a PC solely based on the fact that macs aren't quite as fast anymore, ignoring the long list of other reasons why people love macs, then just do it and shut up.
  • Reply 2 of 40
    kalikali Posts: 634member
    Exercice in frivolity, it is you, who should shut up. I really hate guys complaining about others complaining. Res has right to says what he's saying, even if you don't like it.

    Res, I agree with you. I own a 10 years old Mac IIci which I Iove. It's a dinosaur running sys 7.1, with 32 ram and it's a really efficient computer for what it does. I much prefer the MacOS over any others on the market. I need to use some PCs at work, so I know what are the differences.

    Me too, I'm waiting this summer to buy a new machine, and I'm pissed off about the power aspect of Mac vs PC. But actually, for all I need to do with the new computer, it just doesn't bother me that much. So I know I'll buy a Mac, even if I know there are faster PC machines. Computing isn't just about speed and pure power.
  • Reply 3 of 40
    the cool gutthe cool gut Posts: 1,714member
    [quote]Originally posted by Kali:

    <strong>Exercice in frivolity, it is you, who should shut up. </strong><hr></blockquote>

    No, YOUshut up. Res is being a baby and Exercise in Frivolity called it correctly.
  • Reply 4 of 40
    nx7oenx7oe Posts: 198member

    (i needed to say that <img src="graemlins/surprised.gif" border="0" alt="[Surprised]" /> )
  • Reply 5 of 40
    soopadrivesoopadrive Posts: 182member
    ... going back to the original subject, I honestly don't mind paying more $$$ for an Apple because what I am primarily worried about is the OS. Windows is so incredibly unstable I wouldn't trust implementing it into a toaster. Speed is the only issue I worry about with Apple, but they are gradually getting there. The reason Apple is slightly behind in speed is because CPU manufacturers such as Intel have the money for R & D to come out with better, faster processors in a short period of time. When it comes to paying for a computer, I worry more on reliability than speed. That's just my opinion anyway..
  • Reply 6 of 40
    supermattsupermatt Posts: 55member
    I think you should look at power in a different sense. To me, power is how much faster you can do your work. To me, I can work much faster on a Mac due to its interface. I found that it also keeps close enough speed-wise that you hardly notice the difference in speed. In fact, I find that my 500MHz Powerbook boots faster and does multitasking faster than an 800MHz Pentium III running Windows 2000 (the basic PC used at work). Also, for a laptop, the G4 is a fully functional G4. In a PC laptop, you get a chip that is considerably lower in processing power than its desktop counterpart.

    So, if the processor difference is debatable, that says to me that it's close enough that most users wouldn't notice one way or the other. It comes down to this: What do you use your computer for? Does the Mac allow you to do it more quickly, easily, and comfortably than a PC? If it does, get a Mac. I would look at Quartz Extreme as something that can really help the speed of a Mac. With screen drawing all taken by a separate chip, the processor (G4 or G5) will be able to concentrate solely on the work you're trying to get done. I know this will work because when I was in college, my roommate had an Amiga. It had the same 68000 processor in it as my Mac SE. However, it did almost everything faster. I mean, black-and-white games on my Mac SE were slow... whereas he could play games with better graphics than the available consoles of the time! The reason? Dedicated sound and graphics chips that did the "heavy lifting" so that the 68000 could just process data. I feel this Quartz Extreme will do this for the current Macs. It will make that much of a night and day difference.

    If you like using a Mac, I hope some of these points will sway you to consider that its power lies not only in MHz, but in how fast it lets you do your work.

  • Reply 6 of 40
    kalikali Posts: 634member

    People complaining about people complaining about people complaining about ...

    But I desagree with "the cool gut", Res has the right to say WHATEVER he wants. If you don't like it, just go read something else. If you don't like what I'm saying, just go read something else, or kiss your own ass hole (oups, sorry ! What a bad girl I am !).
  • Reply 8 of 40
    kalikali Posts: 634member
    Ok, I apologise for what I just said in my last post. I'm really a savage ! <img src="graemlins/embarrassed.gif" border="0" alt="[Embarrassed]" />
  • Reply 9 of 40
    gigawiregigawire Posts: 196member
    Apple is the future.
  • Reply 10 of 40
    kalikali Posts: 634member
    [quote]Originally posted by Gigawire:

    <strong>Apple is the future.</strong><hr></blockquote>

    There is no future.
  • Reply 11 of 40
    timortistimortis Posts: 149member
    There's a very simple fact here that can not be ignored.

    There are a considerable amount of long-time Mac users, who have been considering switching platforms because of the performance disparity.

    You guys can call it whining and tell them all to go and buy Wintel. That doesn't mean Apple doesn't have a problem. Apple is clearly losing customers because of this and it can't be helping them win any converts either.
  • Reply 12 of 40
    xaqtlyxaqtly Posts: 450member
    I get the distinct feeling that some of the people complaining about how fast Macs are haven't actually tried using, say, a dual 1 GHz G4. I have, and it smokes. If that machine isn't fast enough for you, then you should be getting into 8 processor Sun workstations.

    I've noticed that a lot of people seem to think the slight lagginess of OS X's interface has something to do with how fast it can run filters in Photoshop or how fast it can do anything processor-intensive. I can tell you that it doesn't, and also that Jaguar seems to have fixed the interface speed problem.

    And I do agree with a couple sentiments already posted here... If you feel Wintels are faster, then buy one. This board is not a channel directly to Steve's ear, complaining here serves no purpose other than to hear yourself talk, and to provoke responses like this one.

    And finally, remember this: Numbers do not tell the whole story. They never have and they most likely never will. So when you talk about a dual 1.6 GHz Athlon box, do you really think it's significantly faster, or even faster at all than a dual 1 GHz G4 when it comes to actually doing things that require power? And if you think the dual 1.6 GHz Athlon box is that much faster, do you truly believe saving a second or two running a render or a filter is worth using Windows?
  • Reply 13 of 40
    ptrashptrash Posts: 296member
    Check out this thread on <a href=""; target="_blank">xlr8yourmac</a>. In particular, the third post has a link to an excellent article on<a href=""; target="_blank">Arstechnica</a>.

    It's ironic that we spend so much time bitching about Mac hardware when it's the OS that's the real problem. In effect, what we 're asking for is faster hardware to make up for the perfomance lag that come from the slow software. And what Apple gives us is still slower software (I'm speaking in relative terms). So now we need even faster hardware, to catch up to where we were before they gave us the new OS. It's kind of pathetic.

    And we're pathetic for continuing to treat Apple like it's two guys doing guerilla engineering in a garage. Apple's a corporation. Like all corporations it primarily cares about the bottom line. It maintains that bottom line by pretending to be an anti-corporation. And we fall in line, just like the characters in the 1984 commercial.

    As lomg as we buy its stuff, it has little incentive to chamge. Of course the (percieved) danger is that if we stop buying its stuff, they go out of business before they have the time to change. That's their bluff. Maybe it's time we call them on it.

    [ 05-09-2002: Message edited by: Ptrash ]</p>
  • Reply 14 of 40
    the cool gutthe cool gut Posts: 1,714member
    [quote] Originally posted by Kali:


    But I desagree with "the cool gut", Res has the right to say WHATEVER he wants. <hr></blockquote>

    This is future hardware, little girl, what Res blathered was a rant ... and that belongs in GENERAL DISCUSSION

    [ 05-09-2002: Message edited by: the cool gut ]</p>
  • Reply 15 of 40
    timortistimortis Posts: 149member
    [quote]Originally posted by Xaqtly:

    <strong>I get the distinct feeling that some of the people complaining about how fast Macs are haven't actually tried using, say, a dual 1 GHz G4. </strong><hr></blockquote>

    Two links, first <a href="http://"; target="_blank">how much faster a mid-range dual Athlon is than a top-of-the-line PowerMac at After Effects</a> , the kind of application that's Apple's bread and butter.

    And <a href=""; target="_blank">this</a> is how much faster than an Athlon the latest P4's are, especially now that most CC aplications are getting SSE2 support.

    Shouldn't be so hard for you to imagine how the latest dual Xeons tromp your dual 1 Ghz speed demon. Just a thought.
  • Reply 16 of 40
    percolatepercolate Posts: 14member
    [Ah, it seems this post became somewhat redundant while I was writing it. Oh well - sorry.]

    [quote]Originally posted by Xaqtly:


    And finally, remember this: Numbers do not tell the whole story. They never have and they most likely never will. So when you talk about a dual 1.6 GHz Athlon box, do you really think it's significantly faster, or even faster at all than a dual 1 GHz G4 when it comes to actually doing things that require power? And if you think the dual 1.6 GHz Athlon box is that much faster, do you truly believe saving a second or two running a render or a filter is worth using Windows?</strong><hr></blockquote>

    On point is this <a href=""; target="_blank">after effects showdown</a> which shows a comparison of a dual 1.533GHz Athlon computer versus a dual 1 GHz PowerMac. In summary the author writes:

    [quote]Not one of the objective tests we conducted using After Effects showed Apple's flagship machine to be superior. In fact, in most of the tests, the Mac was left lagging far behind. <hr></blockquote>

    And this was with Athlons that weren't even top of the line. This doesn't mean that I'll be switching to an x86 machine any time soon but it certainly doesn't look good towards enticing new users, especially people in calculation intensive work. Jobs' way of compensating for this is to pit a single high end x86 chip versus the dual 1 GHz PowerMac in his public tests. While it looks good initially it doesn't fool that many people in the end. After all, a dual Athlon system costs at least $800 less than the dual G4 Powermac.

    [ 05-09-2002: Message edited by: percolate ]</p>
  • Reply 17 of 40
    amorphamorph Posts: 7,112member
    First, rants belong in General Discussion, so I'm moving this there.

    Second, some of the language in this thread is intolerable and poisonous. Be civil.
  • Reply 18 of 40
    nostradamusnostradamus Posts: 397member
    I also plan to make the switch to x86 this summer if Apple does not have more competitive hardware professional hardware.

    Apple is literally in the situation of having "one-half the speed for three times the cost."

    Everything Apple current sells is a joke, even the latest PowerBooks. It's likely things are only going to get worse. The P4 will scale well past 5GHz before PPC scales to 2GHz.

    I've preemptively stopped purchasing all Mac-specific hardware and software.

    [ 05-09-2002: Message edited by: Nostradamus ]</p>
  • Reply 19 of 40
    spindlerspindler Posts: 713member
    Let me point this out. If you are unhappy with Apple's hardware it is really a relative thing. Processor speed is supposed to double every 18 months and Motorola has been chugging along at about the same rate they have for the last 15 years. They say the G4 has room to grow so we should see another update soon.

    It's just that now that Intel has some real competition they have increased the frequency of upgrades. Motorola cannot keep up because the x86 market is 20 times larger and making processors is all about spending money on designing chips and building billion dollar factories. Economies of scale are simply against Motorola. You're gonna build a better go-cart with $5000 to spend than with $500.

    So there's three choices.

    (1) Get the next G4 that comes out because Apple will only keep falling further behind until they switch to x86.

    (2) Wait til MacWorld to see if the mythical G5 comes out. I don't see any real reason to believe there will be a two-fold increase in speed. I think this is more based on wishful thinking than anything else.

    (3) Move to Windows

    If I was you I'd just get the next PowerMac update when it comes out. If that isn't satisfying, then forget about Apple and move on. It's not complicated.
  • Reply 20 of 40
    resres Posts: 711member
    I'll quit whining as soon as Apple starts listening and does something about it.

    A few years ago buying an Apple computer did not mean buying a slower computer, and there is no reason for us to tolerate the current situation. I don't think that Apple has been aggressively trying to remedy the speed problem. I'm tired of excuses -- I don't care if it Motorola fault, I want I more computing horsepower, and want is sooner rather then latter.

    I've tried Windows (I built a PC to play Unreal Tournament because there was no Apple Computer available at the time that could run it at a good frame rate -- which is no longer true) I have no desire to work on the darn thing. Windows just sucks compared with os9 or X.

    All I want is for Apple to come out with a significantly faster Mac (not just a slight speed bump, I want a faster MB etc).

    And if Apple will not let me buy one soon (i.e., MWNY), I will have to consider switching to a Wintel system, no matter how distasteful I find the prospect...
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