Apple's investments in infrastructure, tooling, retail to jump to $15 billion in 2016

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 79
    I like the FairTax ( www.FairTax.org ).

    Interesting. I myself would prefer a tax system based on 15% income tax, VAT, carbon taxes fully dividended back via a payroll tax cut, and a territorial corporate tax system based on a 20% rate.

    I haven't heard of any of the protagonists of this group. Are they implicitly or explicitly a politically affiliated group? (If so, I always scratch them off my list, regardless of Left or Right).
  • Reply 22 of 79

    Apple is like a single entity stimulus package.

  • Reply 23 of 79
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    baconstang wrote: »
    Apple is like a single entity stimulus package.

    And some clown over at the Forbes contributor network says Apple should pay a dividend to the government because all the technology in iPhones came from government research. :rolleyes:
  • Reply 24 of 79
    rogifan wrote: »

    And some clown over at the Forbes contributor network says Apple should pay a dividend to the government because all the technology in iPhones came from government research. :rolleyes:

    Forbes used to be such a great magazine covering American business and finance. Now it's essentially flushing itself down the toilet. Sad.
  • Reply 25 of 79

    A flat tax on consumption? One of the most regressive ideas out there ... but hey, you can 'keep your whole paycheck!', to quote their website. And don't forget to send them donations so they can promote their DOA scheme. 

     

    It's a scam. ... albeit a very slickly packaged one ...

  • Reply 26 of 79
    A flat tax on consumption? One of the most regressive ideas out there ... but hey, you can 'keep your whole paycheck!', to quote their website. And don't forget to send them donations so they can promote their DOA scheme. 

    It's a scam. ... albeit a very slickly packaged one ...

    I am guessing you didn't read much past the 'consumption tax' bit.

    I am not huge of their approach, but they do explicitly address regressivity. You're welcome to critique how they do it, but please don't misrepresent.
  • Reply 27 of 79
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TheOtherGeoff View Post

     



    you would think watches (relatively low volume and huge margin compared to labor) could be assembled in the USA.




    Large scale manufacturing of tens of millions of devices in a very secretive, annual release cycle isn't coming to the USA for a number of reasons, and higher priced labor is only a minor part of it. The US labor pool is lacking willing, capable labor for large scale manufacturing of devices, but more importantly is completely lacking tool and die technicians who build and run factories, along with the entire supply chain of component manufacturing to supply it. You'd have to replicate what China built over the past 30 years, except China already did it and we would now be competing against a 30 year head start.

     

    It's like saying why doesn't Peoria get into movies and put Hollywood out of business, or why doesn't Detroit just attract startups and tech companies like Silicon Valley. There is no element of what works in China here in the US: no interest in building infrastructure, no interest in educating a workforce, no existing community of 100s of millions of people working upward to become part of a new middle class. Just a "hope" that the US can get "jobs" if some big company decided to make it happen. 

     

    Small scale precision manufacturing can be done here, like the Mac Pro. The sort of hand selected, component binning used in iOS device manufacturing would require not just the construction of a new factory, but of a series of factories producing everything from screws to precision parts for robots. 

     

    The area where Apple could get into domestic manufacturing might be in vehicles, because the US does have a domestic market for that already, as well as a series of supply chain manufacturers. Also, because of their weight and size, it can make more sense to build here rather than ship them from overseas plants. Even Toyota, BMW and VW, etc, have brought their manufacturing to the US for some of those reasons. But the conditions supporting car manufacturing are very different from the hand assembly now being used to manufacture most consumer electronics, which hasn't been in the US since the 80s. 

  • Reply 28 of 79
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 7,088member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post



    This is good news to an extend but I do hope that some of that production capacity is heading for the USA.



    Why? U.S. labor costs are too high, benefits out of control,  a legislative hellhole for workman’s comp and disability. Why would any company want to manufacture in the United States under those conditions? Apple’s profit margins would shrink to near zero if they made iPhones in U.S. factories... unless they were fully automated and required only skilled maintenance workers. 

     

    Electronics aren’t manufactured in Western Europe either for the same reasons. After China there’s India for cheap labor. 

  • Reply 29 of 79
    MacProMacPro Posts: 18,249member
    ascii wrote: »
    It's hard to comprehend those kind of numbers. When you read that they spent $15b on capex you wonder if they're building their own factories somewhere, intending to one day end the outsourcing.

    The cost of developing and then building self driving, VTO flying, six seater personal vehicles isn't cheap!
  • Reply 30 of 79
    MacProMacPro Posts: 18,249member
    baconstang wrote: »
    Apple is like a single entity stimulus package.

    It's like a freaking country! A first world one at that! :)
  • Reply 31 of 79
    danoxdanox Posts: 386member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post





    But foreign car manufacturers have plants in the United States. I think if Apple is working on an electric vehicle it will be manufactured in the United States.



    It should be, hopefully Apple took away that one thing from the tour of the German BMW plant. China isn't going to help them with car manufacturing thats like asking for China's help in software design.

  • Reply 32 of 79
    danoxdanox Posts: 386member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post





    Why is that a 'bad point'? I LOVE the guy (as do many millions of people).



    Nothing wrong with Captain slow, it's his ex co-host on Top Gear

  • Reply 33 of 79
    blazarblazar Posts: 270member
    There is nothing particulary rational about wall street valuation... any of them. If apple is undervalued now according to your metrics, you should buy more... Thats what I have been doing. I am going to assume that apple will trade at current P/E ratios from now on. I take advantage of the dividend and share buybacks as well as continued massive middle class china growth. To double their growth, I suspect we have several years to go with ongoing earnings growth. They would have to change wall street expecations with ever bigger products or escalting their reach.

    Amazon, google, and msft are the companies that are irrationally priced for what they actually produce, not Apple being underpriced.
  • Reply 34 of 79
    fallenjtfallenjt Posts: 3,976member

    you would think watches (relatively low volume and huge margin compared to labor) could be assembled in the USA.
    yes only if the stupid labor unions don't get involved to hike the wage. Apple can't afford to sell things cheap with $25/hr wage for assemblers.
  • Reply 35 of 79
    fallenjtfallenjt Posts: 3,976member
    lkrupp wrote: »

    Why? U.S. labor costs are too high, benefits out of control,  a legislative hellhole for workman’s comp and disability. Why would any company want to manufacture in the United States under those conditions? Apple’s profit margins would shrink to near zero if they made iPhones in U.S. factories... unless they were fully automated and required only skilled maintenance workers. 

    Electronics aren’t manufactured in Western Europe either for the same reasons. After China there’s India for cheap labor. 
    and Vietnam with 80 million population where 60% are under 30.
  • Reply 36 of 79
    And the best is yet to come.
  • Reply 37 of 79
    jfanningjfanning Posts: 3,390member
    wizard69 wrote: »
    This is good news to an extend but I do hope that some of that production capacity is heading for the USA.

    Why should I pay more for my Apple equipment just to benefit some random American?
  • Reply 38 of 79
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jfanning View Post





    Why should I pay more for my Apple equipment just to benefit some random American?

    Because the way the economy works, you will get benefit in the end.  Germans understand this and buy their own products even at a higher cost without being forced to.  Ford knew if he paid his employees well, the benefits would come around and they did. 

  • Reply 39 of 79
    MacProMacPro Posts: 18,249member
    jfanning wrote: »
    Why should I pay more for my Apple equipment just to benefit some random American?

    Is that THE jfanning from Mac Rumors?
  • Reply 40 of 79
    blazar wrote: »
    There is nothing particulary rational about wall street valuation... any of them. If apple is undervalued now according to your metrics, you should buy more... Thats what I have been doing. I am going to assume that apple will trade at current P/E ratios from now on. I take advantage of the dividend and share buybacks as well as continued massive middle class china growth. To double their growth, I suspect we have several years to go with ongoing earnings growth. They would have to change wall street expecations with ever bigger products or escalting their reach.

    Amazon, google, and msft are the companies that are irrationally priced for what they actually produce, not Apple being underpriced.
    I pesonally think it's both. AAPL is being priced as if it stopped growing. If all four were at a P/E of 20, it'd be close to right.
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