boycot .mac

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  • Reply 41 of 137
    tulkastulkas Posts: 3,756member
    I can't understand all this whining. If want multiple free email accounts, go sign up for a few dozen hotmail account. If you believe that MS will continue to offer more than just a bare minimum of servics available for free, you are delusional. Already MS chares for POP and most other services, all that is free right now is very, very basic email, and i am willing to bet that that will change soon.."get more than 10 emails a day?...well you can continue to use your hotmail account to receive unlimited emails as before for only $19.99, or your account will only accept 10 emails at a time" if you don't believe that, everyone argued hotmail would never charge for POP access either. I just read today that MS will charge for the next version of MSN Browse if you don't signup for an MSN account.



    I think the future of most iApps is intergration with .mac. Just as iCal will sync with .mac to allow remote access to your calendars, I think most Apple apps will integrate in this manner. Once you combine Rendezvous, iSync and .mac you get a lot of possibilities.



    Ideas:

    -Address book available via .mac and synced via iSync through your idisk.

    -iTunes uses your local harddrive and via rendezvous, shares it with your .mac acount, making your entire mp3 collection available to you remotely.

    -iPhoto will offer automatic uploads of selected photos to your iDisk.

    -iPod could store your .mac account info and when you plug into a new Mac, it connects to and syncs with your .mac account automatically to update addresses, playlists...whatever

    -iMovie could also offer a builtin upload of clips to an iDisk

    -any new 3rd party apps that take advantage of Apple's Open Addressbook API's and Rendezvous and .Mac, could allow remote importing. This opens up other PDA etc to remote updating via .mac.





    There are lots of possibilities for .mac to turn into a real, valuable service, worth the $100. Already, you get increased storage, increased mail allotments and iCal integration. More will come, I can guarantee that much, what it is we will have to wait and see.



    I am however disappointed in the lack hardware announcements overall. I think August for mhz increase in PMacs and iMacs, but nothing overly dramatic, relative to the size of increase happening everywhere else.



    [ 07-17-2002: Message edited by: Tulkas ]</p>
  • Reply 42 of 137
    groveratgroverat Posts: 10,872member
    mooseman:



    [quote]All you whiners complain about .mac and how the bundling used to make macs worth more, while completely overlooking iChat, Sherlock 3, iCal, and iSync, four completely top notch new apps Apple is giving you for free.<hr></blockquote>



    Not free, 10.2 costs $129, so that knocks out Sherlock 3, iSync and iChat. iCal is a free download, yes, but doesn't seem very useful.



    [quote]And with .mac, it gives you capabilities you can't even get on another platform.<hr></blockquote>



    Like?



    Eugene:



    [quote]And what is the exact definition of .NET, Groverat?<hr></blockquote>



    If you're really interested... <a href="http://www.microsoft.com/net/defined/whatis.asp"; target="_blank">clicky</a>



    [quote]Most of the benefits we have seen so far from .NET have been a handful of subscription services.<hr></blockquote>



    Yes, but not necessarily controlled by Microsoft. You can develop for .NET, write your own .NET apps (correct me if I'm wrong).



    .Mac is just Apple's thing that it decides everything about. Apple writes the apps and makes them available with no opportunity for anyone else to join in. The services don't even have to be subscription.



    And I know very little about .NET, I'm sure someone with a greater understanding could show even more differences.
  • Reply 43 of 137
    willoughbywilloughby Posts: 1,457member
    [quote]Originally posted by groverat:

    <strong>mooseman:



    Yes, but not necessarily controlled by Microsoft. You can develop for .NET, write your own .NET apps (correct me if I'm wrong).



    </strong><hr></blockquote>



    Yes, this is correct. .NET is a development platform. We're moving some of our apps over to .NET and have to learn some new things like C#.



    If we wanted to, we could make some of our apps "web services" through .NET and charge other people to use them (consumers, companies, other developers, whoever)
  • Reply 44 of 137
    buonrottobuonrotto Posts: 6,368member
    Remember that all of Apple's web service are powered by WebObjects, which is a Java application builder now. Other services like Sherlock 3's stuff are just html content from web sites and some good parsing.
  • Reply 45 of 137
    tulkastulkas Posts: 3,756member
    [quote]Originally posted by groverat:

    <strong>mooseman:

    Not free, 10.2 costs $129, so that knocks out Sherlock 3, iSync and iChat. iCal is a free download, yes, but doesn't seem very useful.

    </strong><hr></blockquote>

    iCal seems very much like Outlook...prolly one of the most used Windows applications in business today. How is a personal scheduling system, remotely accessible, shareable, and able to integrate with other, not useful?

    [quote]Originally posted by groverat:

    <strong>

    Yes, but not necessarily controlled by Microsoft. You can develop for .NET, write your own .NET apps (correct me if I'm wrong).



    .Mac is just Apple's thing that it decides everything about. Apple writes the apps and makes them available with no opportunity for anyone else to join in. The services don't even have to be subscription.



    And I know very little about .NET, I'm sure someone with a greater understanding could show even more differences.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Yes, you can write your own, but no one really has, except MS. Even MS doesn't really seem to know what .Net will be.
  • Reply 46 of 137
    groveratgroverat Posts: 10,872member
    BuonRotto:



    [quote]Remember that all of Apple's web service are powered by WebObjects, which is a Java application builder now. Other services like Sherlock 3's stuff are just html content from web sites and some good parsing.<hr></blockquote>



    Yep yep.



    But .Mac != WebObjects



    I suppose a WebObjects/.NET comparison could be made more compelling than a .mac/.NET comparison.





    Tulkas:



    [quote]How is a personal scheduling system, remotely accessible, shareable, and able to integrate with other, not useful?<hr></blockquote>



    Ask the dying handheld organizer market.
  • Reply 47 of 137
    stevesteve Posts: 523member
    .NET is a bunch of things. It's everything from an operating system series to a development platform to a subscription services / web application model. Microsoft is cunningly attaching every product that comes out of its ass with a ".NET" moniker, even though it may or may not represent the vision behind it.



    Microsoft ultimately owns .NET and will decide everything associated with it. MS owns your .NET Passport information--no one else. This isn't an open standard, this is MICROSOFT's own way of keeping tabs on you via subscription services. Additionally, developers can write code for a new API with Visual Studio .NET, which contains support for C#, which is basically a Java rip-off, relying heavily on XML. These applications that independent developers can create don't have to have ANY association with .NET at all. And what's with Windows Server .NET 2002 and Windows Blackcomb .NET? That's simply a case of the OS having plugs for Microsoft's own proprietary identification model and their weird-ass services.



    Like Jobs said, iTools was delivering this in January of 2000, LONG before Microsoft ever rolled out its .NET plans. The difference between .Mac and .NET is that Apple actually knows what .Mac means. Yes, MS's services are one component of the .NET big picture, but it spreads into other areas so thinly, that they are named similarly just to give the name maximum exposure. Yes, it's retarded--but so is everything Microsoft does.
  • Reply 48 of 137
    tulkastulkas Posts: 3,756member
    [quote]Originally posted by groverat:

    <strong>BuonRotto:







    Ask the dying handheld organizer market.</strong><hr></blockquote>

    Slowing, but not dying. But, that is an totally irrelavant comparison.



    A full featured scheduling system, able to be shared across an office network through (Rendezvous or directly), or with PDA's, viewable via a web browser etc, seems like it would be pretty useful to many people.



    If a scheduler, that could be applied and used by pretty much anyone, no matter what they use their Mac for is not useful....what would you consider a useful app?
  • Reply 49 of 137
    amorphamorph Posts: 7,112member
    Before anyone runs off and sends feedback about .Mac, <a href="http://mac.com/1/mac_faq.html"; target="_blank">read the FAQ</a>.



    It has a number of useful clarifications. For example, if you have a .Mac account, you can purchase up to 10 additional email addresses for $10/year apiece. 1GB of iDisk storage is now an additional $350.
  • Reply 49 of 137
    brussellbrussell Posts: 9,812member
    I don't know if I'm "boycotting" it, but I'll definitely not pay for it.



    Don't most people either have their ISP's e-mail or a University or company e-mail? I know I have both, so I never used .mac email.



    I wonder how many other people won't need it and won't pay for it, either. No boycott is necessary if people just don't want to pay for it.



    But I'm sure it'll be a great money-maker. I just hope they don't start making it necessary to subscribe in order to obtain certain functionality on your machine. Like this iCal - didn't he say something about it using .Mac? Fine, as long as it's not crippled so that you can't use regular TCP/IP to sync or share.
  • Reply 51 of 137
    mac's girlmac's girl Posts: 556member
    [quote]Originally posted by EmAn:

    <strong>



    Right, and that's reasonable, but they should still have a free option with less space.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    i SECOND, THIRD, and FOURTH that nomination!







    i need a cheap *free* site now to store some low-res images that i use in signatures for various bulletin boards. they prob take up all of 2-3 mb of space. can anyone recommend one that will work with on a mac?



    i was going to phase out my AOL email too, since they upped the BYOP price, but now i guess i will stick with them. at least i know where i stand with them.
  • Reply 51 of 137
    amorphamorph Posts: 7,112member
    You can use .Mac to host published calendars if you want - I'm sure Apple will make it easy - but you don't have to use their service. Any server will do. Calendars can also be emailed and IM'd, etc.
  • Reply 51 of 137
    nathan22tnathan22t Posts: 317member
    I have a 6mb email account with yahoo, no spam, no popup ads... free.
  • Reply 54 of 137
    From Apple:

    [quote]

    Bought individually, comparable products would cost you an estimated $250:



    Anti-virus: $50

    Backup: $40

    100MB of online storage: $60

    15MB of email storage, forwarding and POP/IMAP access: $40+

    Home page creation and hosting: $60

    <hr></blockquote>



    Sure the backup might cost this, backing up over iDisk sounds like a nightmare to me.



    I'm sorry, but with pretty many web hopsting plans, you could easily have 100+ MB of storage, pop e-mail and hosting for FAR less than the $160 Apple says this value is worth. Sure it's not the SAME thing, but I surely hope Apple doesn't believe the BS it's pushing.
  • Reply 55 of 137
    eugeneeugene Posts: 8,254member
    I'll stick my neck out and bet .Mac services will expand to include a no-frills subscription with just e-mail and a 20 MB iDisk for $30 a year or something like that (no upgrades other than the premium subscription.) I also think the current $100 subscription rate will drop to $60-70 per year.
  • Reply 56 of 137
    [quote]Originally posted by mooseman:

    <strong>...reminds me of when I used to do a beer promotion for my restaurant. Instead of paying the band, we would sell 32oz pitchers of beer for 1¢ between 9-10 (around the time the band got ready to start) if you had a door stamp showing you had paid the cover to get it. So, we gave away what amounted to 2 kegs of beer ($130) and the bands made $500-600. And the brtenders made killer cash. Win-win-win.



    ...except, we began cultivating a crowd that expected free shit all the time. Soon, the began taking it for granted, quit tipping well, started bitching about having to wait in line, started bitching about the pitcher size, etc.



    It seems Apple has dug itself the same hole here. All you whiners complain about .mac and how the bundling used to make macs worth more, while completely overlooking iChat, Sherlock 3, iCal, and iSync, four completely top notch new apps Apple is giving you for free. And with .mac, it gives you capabilities you can't even get on another platform.



    Oh, and lets not forget iMovie, iDVD, iTunes, QuickTime StreamingServer, and QuickTime Broadcaster, all also available for free. I dunno about you, but I feel its a damn fine deal I already get and I will happily pay $99 a year ($49 this year) to have my Palm, iPod, and Macs at work and home all synced.



    Plus, given the fact that I curently don't have anti-virus software or backup software, I think its a steal.



    Yet, you bitch cuz you don't get free e-mail. Hmmm. Some people can't see the forest for all the trees.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Ditto - I couldn't have said it better myself, hence I'm quoting the entire message.
  • Reply 57 of 137
    [quote]Originally posted by nathan22t:



    <strong>I have a 6mb email account with yahoo, no spam, no popup ads... free.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Except that it is web-based only. No POP access via your email client. Even with their pay service I believe you must use their own SMTP server for sending mail and many (most?) ISPs will not allow this.
  • Reply 57 of 137
    tulkastulkas Posts: 3,756member
    [quote]Originally posted by Eugene:

    <strong>I'll stick my neck out and bet .Mac services will expand to include a no-frills subscription with just e-mail and a 20 MB iDisk for $30 a year or something like that (no upgrades other than the premium subscription.) I also think the current $100 subscription rate will drop to $60-70 per year.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    I think this will happen in September. The Apple page reads "A full .Mac membership gives you ....." This implies there will be partial or limited memberships. They are prolly not promoting that part yet, as they need people to switch over to the full plan..same reason for the $50 discount.
  • Reply 59 of 137
    zazzaz Posts: 177member
    Seems like a lot of penny pinching and whining over the cost of a 20z Coke or a Latte a week for the upgrade/new user packages.
  • Reply 60 of 137
    groveratgroverat Posts: 10,872member
    Nope, Amorph, that's simply for upgrading your $100/yr subscription.



    Note the top of that particular answer:

    But once you become a full .Mac member, you can upgrade both your Mac.com Email and your iDisk storage. You can also purchase up to ten additional email accounts.



    Apple is certainly happy to let you pay more than $100.
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