Apple to pay Italy $348M, sign accord to circumvent allegations of unpaid taxes

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  • Reply 41 of 88
    sog35 said:
    And the stock is down $6 billion today because of a $300 million fine.

    Friken ridiculous.  Its time to fire Tim Cook and install a CEO who knows how to deal with Wall Street. 
    You obviously have no idea how the stock market works... You probably thought you'll make a killing by buying a few AAPL shares early in the year and wait for them to grow to $150 to sell and make a quick buck. There are many other forces at play when price is set, and if you look at the overall market today, most of the companies I follow are in the red, including AAPL, and the ones that aren't are only fractions up. For example, Netflix is down 1.5% today.... did you hear anything negative about them?? So please take your amateurish stock market understanding somewhere else. Moderators should ban you for the foul language you used in the forum too
    jonlSpamSandwichronn
  • Reply 42 of 88
    icoco3icoco3 Posts: 1,467member
    sog35 said:
    acgmph said:
    You obviously have no idea how the stock market works... You probably thought you'll make a killing by buying a few AAPL shares early in the year and wait for them to grow to $150 to sell and make a quick buck. There are many other forces at play when price is set, and if you look at the overall market today, most of the companies I follow are in the red, including AAPL, and the ones that aren't are only fractions up. For example, Netflix is down 1.5% today.... did you hear anything negative about them?? So please take your amateurish stock market understanding somewhere else. Moderators should ban you for the foul language you used in the forum too
    sure most companies are in the red today.

    But Apple is down 200% more than the index. And look at the past 3 years and Apple is getting destroyed by Google, Amazon, Microsoft, Neflix, NASDAQ, Dow, and S&P500.  It has been a piece of shit stock since Jobs died.  The main reason is Tim Cook SUCKS as a front man. He sucks at articulating his vision. 

    You should take that 1 year self ban now.
    acgmphronnjonlmwhitecnocbuithepixeldocargonaut
  • Reply 43 of 88
    ronnronn Posts: 424member
    sog35 said:
    And the stock is down $6 billion today because of a $300 million fine.

    Friken ridiculous.  Its time to fire Tim Cook and install a CEO who knows how to deal with Wall Street. 
    2016 can't come soon enough. Jeez!
    acgmph
  • Reply 44 of 88
    mjtomlinmjtomlin Posts: 2,431member
    sog35 said:
    It has been a piece of shit stock since Jobs died.  The main reason is Tim Cook SUCKS as a front man. He sucks at articulating his vision. 

    When Jobs died the stock was at 57, it's at 107 today. And this summer was as high as 133. And since Jobs' death Apple has been paying out dividends to investors.

    So yeah, ever since Tim took over, the stock has been worthless. /s

    Look at the huge jump in Google's valuation just since this summer... it resembles the huge run-up during Cook's first year. I'm going to guess these are huge institutions running up the value so they can dump it at some point and make a lot of money, just as what happened with AAPL. Your "Tim Cook SUCKS" mantra is merely something personal and has nothing to do with reality. Just look at the pattern over the years. It hits low, then runs up to a new high. Has nothing to do with what Tim Cook is or isn't doing.
    edited December 2015 mwhiteargonaut
  • Reply 45 of 88
    sog35 said:
    And the stock is down $6 billion today because of a $300 million fine.

    Friken ridiculous.  Its time to fire Tim Cook and install a CEO who knows how to deal with Wall Street. 
    Sog are you actually Steve Forstall ? Is that why your so Angry.. You have a CEO who has guided a company to take 94% of the Smartphone industry profits.. On 30% of sales... While every wall st "analyst" urged them. To do a cheaper range of phones. On a marketing budget a 1/10 of Samsung's They introduced a smart watch that buy all accounts has outsold every other equivalent device in the first quarter on sale... Id say the next earnings report Apple will actually lidt units sold as ut probably was the see too gift for christmas... Dude if you want yer company to pander to the wild unqualified muttering of the Wall St analytical crowd then move yer stock to Twitter or Spotify... Im sorry that Tony Soprano needs his money from you n your clearly under pressure.. But stop being the Kim Kardashian of stock / company analysis.. N have some tean n a biscuit or a valium... Every CEO in Americas blue chips would sell their Donald Trump baseball cap to be in Tim Cooks shoes.
    edited December 2015 argonaut
  • Reply 46 of 88
    sog35 said:
    acgmph said:
    You obviously have no idea how the stock market works... You probably thought you'll make a killing by buying a few AAPL shares early in the year and wait for them to grow to $150 to sell and make a quick buck. There are many other forces at play when price is set, and if you look at the overall market today, most of the companies I follow are in the red, including AAPL, and the ones that aren't are only fractions up. For example, Netflix is down 1.5% today.... did you hear anything negative about them?? So please take your amateurish stock market understanding somewhere else. Moderators should ban you for the foul language you used in the forum too
    sure most companies are in the red today.

    But Apple is down 200% more than the index. And look at the past 3 years and Apple is getting destroyed by Google, Amazon, Microsoft, Neflix, NASDAQ, Dow, and S&P500.  It has been a piece of shit stock since Jobs died.  The main reason is Tim Cook SUCKS as a front man. He sucks at articulating his vision. 
    Yet all those companies you mention have something that Apple doesn't: diversification of revenue in a somewhat equal distribution. Apple makes most of its money from iPhone, so much so that iPhone revenue is almost double than everything else combined. Investors view iPhone as almost plateauing, as in not growing QoQ and YoY anymore, hence the low performing stock price. If you look at Google (diversification of revenue from advertising from different streams - web, mobile, YouTube plus innovative initiatives that the whole world knows about that will bring revenue in the future), Amazon (revenue from cloud, retail, marketplace, publishing platform), Microsoft (recently added computer hardware to gaming hardware and software, productivity software, cloud), Netflix (attracting new subscribers by producing own shows and movies, expanding its territory and increasing its subscriber base), Facebook (need I start with this one??)... 

    You didn't do your due-diligence when you wanted to keep AAPL short term. You really need to do your research better.
    icoco3
  • Reply 47 of 88
    It isn't my position to defend but under EU law if Apple is found to have had "illegal" state aid then Apple has to pay back all the aid it has received.

    No fraud has been committed both parties are at fault. Other companies found to have been in receipt of illegal state aid have had to pay it back.

    So you're saying this was illegal when Apple had the best tax lawyers and advisors on the planet advising them and they all missed this? Bull.

    And where's your supporting link or source for your last sentence?
    Actually im not saying it is illegal but the EU is and if they are found guilty of having a sweetheart deal with the Irish government then they  have to pay it back.
    It's covered I believe under article 101 of the TFEU.

  • Reply 48 of 88
    ac1234ac1234 Posts: 138member
    cincytee said:
    The irony is that, no matter how forward-thinking they claim to be, Wall Street actually bets on very old perceptions — like Microsoft rules the computing roost and Apple is a niche player. Should Apple be working to change that? Maybe. As a shareholder I certainly wouldn't mind. Still, I'd much rather a company's management be focused on executing with solid, successful products than throwing dozens of ideas at the wall of buyers and seeing if anything sticks. At the moment, that's Apple, and its focus starts at the top, with Cook and Ive.
    A false dichotomy in bolded print - it is not the only choice.  Under Tim Cook, we are not experiencing the solid launch of successful products that Wall Street & investors are expecting.  Beats ??  Apple TV ??  Movie content = epic failure.  Apple Watch - not a lot of positive narrative out there - narrative on AAPL - generally negative.  Angela "the empty skirt" - another bad hire.  $2 billion cost overrun on the spaceship building.  2% dividend - a joke given their cash hoard.   
  • Reply 49 of 88
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member
    sog35 said:
    cnocbui said:
    This fine is just the start.  Australia and Ireland will follow and moves are afoot to close the door on this sort of dreadful multinational corporate tax minimisation so the days of Apple and other multinationals amassing huge piles of cash, to the extent they have been able to paying just 2% tax, may be soon over.

    Add in a dose of -

    Foxconn reduces overtime as iPhone holiday sales fall 5% to 10% under expectations?


    - and you have a bad news day.

    That's all old news from MONTHS ago (Aus, Ireland tax, iPhone weakness)

    The only new news was Italy.  

    So Apple will pay a $300  million fine and the stock goes down $7 billion.  Makes no fucking sense.
    It isn't news, it's all speculation until the probability is actually realised - as it was today.

    I think quite a portion of the market was adopting a wait and see  - and today they saw.

    edited December 2015 singularity
  • Reply 50 of 88
    sog35 said:

    acgmph said:
    Yet all those companies you mention have something that Apple doesn't: diversification of revenue in a somewhat equal distribution. Apple makes most of its money from iPhone, so much so that iPhone revenue is almost double than everything else combined. Investors view iPhone as almost plateauing, as in not growing QoQ and YoY anymore, hence the low performing stock price. If you look at Google (diversification of revenue from advertising from different streams - web, mobile, YouTube plus innovative initiatives that the whole world knows about that will bring revenue in the future), Amazon (revenue from cloud, retail, marketplace, publishing platform), Microsoft (recently added computer hardware to gaming hardware and software, productivity software, cloud), Netflix (attracting new subscribers by producing own shows and movies, expanding its territory and increasing its subscriber base), Facebook (need I start with this one??)... 

    You didn't do your due-diligence when you wanted to keep AAPL short term. You really need to do your research better.
    Bullshit.

    Google is 90% ads.
    Microsoft is 70% Windows/Office
    Amazon is 80% retail revenue
    Netflix is 100% streaming

    Diversified my ass.
    QED... you have no idea what you're talking about. Hit those books again, might be of some use.
    singularity
  • Reply 51 of 88
    Apple isn't AAPL. there's nothing Tim Cook can do to change that. Get out of the stock if it causes you that much pain.
    mwhite
  • Reply 52 of 88
    ac1234ac1234 Posts: 138member
    acgmph said:
    QED... you have no idea what you're talking about. Hit those books again, might be of some use.
    This type of post adds virtually no value to the discussion.

    Please explain your position with some narrative.
  • Reply 53 of 88
    Actually, I think Mr. Cook has been quite articulate as to what Apple's 'vision' is. But since you seem to have a Day Trader approach to stock performance, you should sell your shares and invest in something else rather than whine about AAPL stock performance. I'm a stock holder and I could give a rats behind what 'Wall Street' thinks about AAPL. Today's stock markets are highly manipulated by trading entities that have almost nothing to do with company performance. As Jim Cramer noted on several occasions, "don't buy AAPL to trade, buy AAPL to hold."
  • Reply 54 of 88
    sog35 said:
    Are you a large investor in APPL? Why do you care about the stock price?
    I own Apple shares.  And yes I'm pissed off that Tim Cook is such a crappy CEO in communicating with Wall Street.

    Cook is great with supply chain details but he SUCKS at articulating Apple's vision.
    Actually, I think Mr. Cook has been quite articulate as to what Apple's 'vision' is. But since you seem to have a Day Trader approach to stock performance, you should sell your shares and invest in something else rather than whine about AAPL stock performance. I'm a stock holder and I could give a rats behind what 'Wall Street' thinks about AAPL. Today's stock markets are highly manipulated by trading entities that have almost nothing to do with company performance. As Jim Cramer noted on several occasions, "don't buy AAPL to trade, buy AAPL to hold."
    singularityargonaut
  • Reply 55 of 88
    jonljonl Posts: 210member
    onlyhope said:
    As Jim Cramer noted on several occasions, "don't buy AAPL to trade, buy AAPL to hold."
    Cramer was saying that in 2012 when it was at $700. Not long after, his charitable trust was selling the small Apple position it had held only a couple of years. It bought back in during 2013 and 2014.
  • Reply 56 of 88
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    mjtomlin said:
    sog35 said:Well then Cook should hire someone who knows how to articulate with Wall Street an investors the vision of Apple.

    He has NOT hired anyone and instead has tried to articulate the vision himself.  He has FAILED.  Wall Street and investors still view Apple as simply a hardware company.  Apple is a lifestyle and ecosystem company. Yet Wall Street does not think so.  That's Tim Cooks fault.

    Either Cook needs to hire someone who can articulate this vision or he must step down.

    Your hatred for Tim Cook is borderline hysterical. Get a grip. Tim Cook cannot control Wall Street. No one can. Wall St. looks at a company's ability to continue to grow within current market conditions - that's all they care about. Tim Cook and Apple have proven Wall St. wrong over and over again for the passed few years, yet they continue to believe Apple is on the verge of collapse. There is absolutely nothing Tim Cook can do to convince them otherwise. How in the world does everyone in the world view Apple as a platform company and Wall St. fails to see that unless they just don't care about all of that? Wall St. only cares about markets; All companies you keep mentioning are monopolies in their respective markets; Google: search/ad, Microsoft: desktop OS, Amazon: online retail. And as long as they push out initiatives that "help" keep their standing, then Wall St. will love them for it.

    Apple is not a monopoly in their main "market"; hardware/devices, and they never have and probably never will be. They've always been an enigma to Wall St. This is nothing new and I seriously doubt it will ever change. So, I'm not sure why you're acting this way now? Perhaps you just recently became a shareholder?
    While I agree Sog is off the rail, you're assertions about Wall street are funny as hell too.

    Wall street doesn't give a shit about ability to grow within context, I wish they did.

    It ability to grow within context doesn't explain either MS or Google's PE; not even close.

    Google knows so well that spin drives stock that they've create their whole alphabet soup thing to spin some more.
    Yep, Google, Amazon and MS, master of media relations if not of actually building long term profits.

    90% of Wall Street transactions seems to be based on what will happen to the stock, not the company, in the next few days!
    You'd think those two would be linked... But hell no. It's always based on gut instinct and technical analysis (fancy name for gambling system...)

    Monopoly doesn't help you if your plate is shrinking (like MS and even Google); basically, I think in general they don't have a clue.
    Not having a clue makes them perfect patsies for investment relations to feed them lines.

    It's a quasi ponzi scheme built with the people at the top having the most info channels/ability to do transactions and everyone else is just a pawn in their little game.
  • Reply 57 of 88

    It’s a good bet this is what’s hammering AAPL today. But it shouldn’t, and here’s why: Apple set aside a large amount (all?) of the offshore tax it will owe the U.S. should it repatriate offshore net income. But that U.S. tax will be offset by any foreign tax Apple has to pay. Thus, instead of holding €318M for payment to the U.S., Apple can now take that amount out of their set aside and pay off Italy, without having to restate earnings.

    As I’ve tried to point out on this issue all along, the U.S. is, in effect, the loser here. Italy will take €318M out of the fund previously earmarked for the U.S. Treasury. The U.S. should be fighting in Apple’s corner on this.

  • Reply 58 of 88

    sog35 said:

    I think the only real reason for Apple stock being undervalued despite the company outperforming in terms of revenue and profit growth is because of the Steve Jobs legacy. People are still waiting for that breakthrough product release (post Steve Jobs oversight) that will sell in droves. I think the fear investors have is that one quarter of negative growth will tank the stock and impact them. A breakthrough product on the other hand puts to rest the fact that things have finally moved after Steve Jobs. I am not saying that products released in the past couple of years are not innovative, however, they have not been disruptive either.
    This is Tim Cooks failure than. 

    Look at the CEO at Microsoft. He was able to leave the legacy of Mr Gates in the dust.

    The fears you mention are the fears of HARDWARE COMPANIES.  Apple is NOT a hardware company.  Do you think investors are worried about Google's hardware sales? Or Amazon's hardware sales? Or Microsoft's hardware sales?  HELL NO.  Because Wall Street does not view Google/Amazon/Microsoft as hardware companies.  But Wall Street and investors view Apple as a hardware company. That is a COMPLETE FAILURE of Tim Cook not being able to convince investors that Apple is much more than a hardware company.
    Don't you have anything better to do with your time than use it to display your total ignorance here? You have zero idea of what Tim Cook or anyone at Apple is doing or why. IOW, all you've done is express your unsubstantiated opinion, over and over ad nauseum, replete with all caps and excessive profanity.

    You need to get a life, dude.
    singularity
  • Reply 59 of 88
    jonljonl Posts: 210member
    sog35 said:
    WTF are you talking about.

    Tim Cook himself said Apple is not a hardware company.
    Yet Wall Street and investors still view Apple as a hardware company.

    That is a FAILURE on Cooks part not being able to convience Wall Street of Apple's vision as a ecosystem/lifestyle company. Its 100% on Cook.

    If Wall Street/Investors believed Apple was a ecosystem company it would be worth over a TRILLION DOLLARS right now.
    As Tim Cook wrote on Apple's Privacy page, "Our business model is very straightforward: We sell great products." The products that Apple sells are almost entirely iPhones, iPads, and Macs. Their business depends on expanding their market and the upgrade cycle, and that business is selling hardware. Tim Cook went on, "Our software and services are designed to make our devices better. Plain and simple." Their business is selling devices. It couldn't be any clearer.

  • Reply 60 of 88
    Actually, I think Mr. Cook has been quite articulate as to what Apple's 'vision' is. But since you seem to have a Day Trader approach to stock performance, you should sell your shares and invest in something else rather than whine about AAPL stock performance. I'm a stock holder and I could give a rats behind what 'Wall Street' thinks about AAPL. Today's stock markets are highly manipulated by trading entities that have almost nothing to do with company performance. As Jim Cramer noted on several occasions, "don't buy AAPL to trade, buy AAPL to hold."
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