New US guidelines on self-driving cars coming in July, NHTSA official says

Posted:
in Future Apple Hardware
The U.S. Department of Transportation will reportedly be laying out new guidelines on self-driving cars in July, hoping to improve the speed with which companies like Apple and Google can deploy their technology.

Tesla's upcoming Model 3, which already has some limited autonomous tech.
Tesla's upcoming Model 3, which already has some limited autonomous tech.


Regulations need to evolve faster, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration head Mark Rosekind told an industry conference in Detroit, according to Fortune.

Notably the administrator proposed that self-driving systems shouldn't have to be perfect to be authorized, only a minimum of twice as good as human-operated vehicles. This would theoretically cutdown on American highway deaths, which Rosekind likened to "a 747 crashing every week for a year."

He also hinted at the possibility of accepting a Tesla offer to share data from cars equipped with its Autopilot feature, which while not fully self-driving can keep a vehicle on a highway and avoid collisions with other drivers.

"We're looking to see what the offer might be," Rosekind explained. "If the offer is there, we're going for it."

The NHTSA has previously said that while there are many legal obstacles before cars without wheels or pedals can be sold, there are far fewer barriers towards cars that keep those human controls as a backup.

Apple is believed to be developing an electric car under the codename "Project Titan." The first model could ship as soon as 2019 or 2020, but may not initially be autonomous. That could have to wait for subsequent models or software updates.

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 17
    welshdogwelshdog Posts: 1,644member
    Since corporations now regularly pen laws and regulations themselves and then hand them over to the elected officials to be made law, I wonder who is writing the autonomous car regs? As far as Apple waiting to add autonomous driving features later - seems like a good plan. If the auto-driving abilities of cars are going to be determined and managed by regulation (as it should be) then there is little reason to innovate here. Just build your car to meet or exceed the regs and move on. Not really a marketing opportunity since competitors have to reach the same goals. Focus on making the essence of the car innovative. Enhance the driving experience, performance, appearance, comfort efficiency, environmental impact etc.
    jackansi
  • Reply 2 of 17
    why-why- Posts: 305member
    I've been very impressed with what I've seen from Volvo so far. personally I can't wait for the age of self-driving cars
  • Reply 3 of 17
    irelandireland Posts: 17,521member
    Sharing data? The US government will jump at the opportunity to legislate that.
    SpamSandwich
  • Reply 4 of 17
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 4,382member
    Interesting.... While leaving the parking lot at the Four Seasons in San Francisco, I saw a Tesla parked in the VIP valet area, plugged in.  It definitely was not their regular Model S as the front grille was non-existent.

    It was exactly the same car shown in the photo, the model 3.  Obviously, those cars are being driven around.  I thought they were still 18 months away from debuting.
  • Reply 5 of 17
    knowitallknowitall Posts: 1,143member
    Mark Rosekind is an absolute moron, "twice as good as a human driver", wow, even if it is possible how is that to be determined.
    Fully autonomous cars that drive as good as an experienced driver on all kinds of roads under all weather conditions are currently impossible and will stay impossible for many years.
    The only way to approve the driving of an autonomous car is to test it in the same way as human drivers; it has to pass the drivers exam. You can call it the drivers Turing test, if the car performs better or equal to the exam norm it will pass, if it violates the law later on it has to pass the exam again like human drivers have to (in some situations), also, each car has to pass individually.

    lkruppargonaut
  • Reply 6 of 17
    jackansijackansi Posts: 116member
    welshdog said:
    Since corporations now regularly pen laws and regulations themselves and then hand them over to the elected officials to be made law, I wonder who is writing the autonomous car regs? As far as Apple waiting to add autonomous driving features later - seems like a good plan. If the auto-driving abilities of cars are going to be determined and managed by regulation (as it should be) then there is little reason to innovate here. Just build your car to meet or exceed the regs and move on. Not really a marketing opportunity since competitors have to reach the same goals. Focus on making the essence of the car innovative. Enhance the driving experience, performance, appearance, comfort efficiency, environmental impact etc.
    Agree, though I'd still want car companies to go a step further than "just the regs" and I want to know who actually wrote regs or at least why X = Y.

    BTW, the last two sentences of yours ended up in my head in a kind of uncontrollable "Jony Ive voiceover"... 
    edited June 2016 genovelle
  • Reply 7 of 17
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 4,382member
    knowitall said:
    Mark Rosekind is an absolute moron, "twice as good as a human driver", wow, even if it is possible how is that to be determined.
    Fully autonomous cars that drive as good as an experienced driver on all kinds of roads under all weather conditions are currently impossible and will stay impossible for many years.
    The only way to approve the driving of an autonomous car is to test it in the same way as human drivers; it has to pass the drivers exam. You can call it the drivers Turing test, if the car performs better or equal to the exam norm it will pass, if it violates the law later on it has to pass the exam again like human drivers have to (in some situations), also, each car has to pass individually.


    If he means twice as good as the idiot drivers I come across every day during the commute, then it's totally doable.  Those people should have their license taken away, so it's like being twice as good as "zero".  Anything is an improvement.

    I'm actually looking forward to the day when all cars have some kind of Road-Aware-Network (R.A.N.?) where they all communicate with each other and can literally remove the driver from having to do anything.  

    I bought a new car a few months ago and it has so many bells-and-whistles, especially in the area of auto-safety and the thing can practically drive, park, and prevent a collision all on its own.  Amazing tech.  Sure there are some rough edges with the tech, but in 5-10 years... we may be approaching the ending of cars that need to be driven manually.
    argonaut
  • Reply 8 of 17
    boeyc15boeyc15 Posts: 986member

    After seeing a youtube video of Model S on a  44 min varied commute and just my 'interpretation' required in some daily scenarios to safely navigate to my home, Im convinced mixed car(auto and non- auto) wide spread level 4 autonomous (ie door to door) is a long ways off, if ever.

    Perhaps its possible if manual driving is 'banned'!!

    However, I can imagine very soon have autonomous for 'approved highway' sections in VDR (Visual Driving Rules-- ie good weather) conditions.

    Leads to another aspect--- governments are going to need to step up road maintenance (clear painted lines etc)

  • Reply 9 of 17
    boeyc15boeyc15 Posts: 986member
    knowitall said:
    Mark Rosekind is an absolute moron, "twice as good as a human driver", wow, even if it is possible how is that to be determined.
    Fully autonomous cars that drive as good as an experienced driver on all kinds of roads under all weather conditions are currently impossible and will stay impossible for many years.
    The only way to approve the driving of an autonomous car is to test it in the same way as human drivers; it has to pass the drivers exam. You can call it the drivers Turing test, if the car performs better or equal to the exam norm it will pass, if it violates the law later on it has to pass the exam again like human drivers have to (in some situations), also, each car has to pass individually.


    IMO -A Driver test presumes the test-ee has all the advanced human motor(pun)  /  coordination skills and has the ability to 'quickly learn' to more advance levels (as stated in many post here... evidence to the contrary!)

     

  • Reply 10 of 17
    mac_dogmac_dog Posts: 639member
    i didn't know monkeys could write.
  • Reply 11 of 17
    quinneyquinney Posts: 2,521member
    sflocal said:
    Interesting.... While leaving the parking lot at the Four Seasons in San Francisco, I saw a Tesla parked in the VIP valet area, plugged in.  It definitely was not their regular Model S as the front grille was non-existent.

    It was exactly the same car shown in the photo, the model 3.  Obviously, those cars are being driven around.  I thought they were still 18 months away from debuting.
    Tesla changed the design of the front fascia of the Model S a few weeks ago.  You probably saw one of the new ones.  Now they have sort of a mustache instead of the
    nose cone.
  • Reply 12 of 17
    harry wildharry wild Posts: 555member
    I am a fast driver and the only way I would let a self driving car drive itself when I am inside the car is I can set the speed limit! If the highway speed limit is 70 mph, I like to override it and tell the car to go 125 mph! mNow that the way I drive my car now! Never had a speeding ticket in driving for over 36 years on the road! I laugh at those people who get ticket for going over by 10-20 mph the speed limit! I go over the speed limit by 50-100 mph and I get nothing!
  • Reply 13 of 17
    harry wildharry wild Posts: 555member
    sflocal said:
    Interesting.... While leaving the parking lot at the Four Seasons in San Francisco, I saw a Tesla parked in the VIP valet area, plugged in.  It definitely was not their regular Model S as the front grille was non-existent.

    It was exactly the same car shown in the photo, the model 3.  Obviously, those cars are being driven around.  I thought they were still 18 months away from debuting.
    That the new updated S!
  • Reply 14 of 17
    netroxnetrox Posts: 696member
    knowitall said:
    Mark Rosekind is an absolute moron, "twice as good as a human driver", wow, even if it is possible how is that to be determined.
    Fully autonomous cars that drive as good as an experienced driver on all kinds of roads under all weather conditions are currently impossible and will stay impossible for many years.
    The only way to approve the driving of an autonomous car is to test it in the same way as human drivers; it has to pass the drivers exam. You can call it the drivers Turing test, if the car performs better or equal to the exam norm it will pass, if it violates the law later on it has to pass the exam again like human drivers have to (in some situations), also, each car has to pass individually.

    No matter how "safe" you are - the odds are that a self driving car will be safer than you. Google has logged over a million miles and only ONE accident attributed to the software. That accident involved only going 2 miles per hour making it extremely minor. I'd rather have a self driving car over a human driving the car anytime.
  • Reply 15 of 17
    genovellegenovelle Posts: 809member
    jackansi said:
    welshdog said:
    Since corporations now regularly pen laws and regulations themselves and then hand them over to the elected officials to be made law, I wonder who is writing the autonomous car regs? As far as Apple waiting to add autonomous driving features later - seems like a good plan. If the auto-driving abilities of cars are going to be determined and managed by regulation (as it should be) then there is little reason to innovate here. Just build your car to meet or exceed the regs and move on. Not really a marketing opportunity since competitors have to reach the same goals. Focus on making the essence of the car innovative. Enhance the driving experience, performance, appearance, comfort efficiency, environmental impact etc.
    Agree, though I'd still want car companies to go a step further than "just the regs" and I want to know who actually wrote regs or at least why X = Y.

    BTW, the last two sentences of yours ended up in my head in a kind of uncontrollable "Jony Ive voiceover"... 
    I could hear it too after you mentioned it. 

  • Reply 16 of 17
    knowitallknowitall Posts: 1,143member
    sflocal said:
    knowitall said:
    Mark Rosekind is an absolute moron, "twice as good as a human driver", wow, even if it is possible how is that to be determined.
    Fully autonomous cars that drive as good as an experienced driver on all kinds of roads under all weather conditions are currently impossible and will stay impossible for many years.
    The only way to approve the driving of an autonomous car is to test it in the same way as human drivers; it has to pass the drivers exam. You can call it the drivers Turing test, if the car performs better or equal to the exam norm it will pass, if it violates the law later on it has to pass the exam again like human drivers have to (in some situations), also, each car has to pass individually.


    If he means twice as good as the idiot drivers I come across every day during the commute, then it's totally doable.  Those people should have their license taken away, so it's like being twice as good as "zero".  Anything is an improvement.

    I'm actually looking forward to the day when all cars have some kind of Road-Aware-Network (R.A.N.?) where they all communicate with each other and can literally remove the driver from having to do anything.  

    I bought a new car a few months ago and it has so many bells-and-whistles, especially in the area of auto-safety and the thing can practically drive, park, and prevent a collision all on its own.  Amazing tech.  Sure there are some rough edges with the tech, but in 5-10 years... we may be approaching the ending of cars that need to be driven manually.
    Idiot drivers, yes, anything is better than that.
    Autonomous driving of an acceptable level is not to be expected for many years in the future.
    Car companies would like you to believe that, so they can sell another expensive product - that's probably the reason Mark talks like that - but apart from lack of vision (which is also a real problem, I admit that) car companies cannot be trusted.
    The right approach is to assist humans while they fail, not trying to replace the things they are good at (that is almost impossible). So when a driver falls asleep a car brakes safely and doesn't hit a tree totally unnecessarily, that's real value, that will save lives.
    Idiot drivers should be punished by having to use a car that looks at all speed limits and prevent speeding in this way. Every car should have black box functionality so drivers know they could be checked, and so on. This will drive down fatalities and injuries in a gigantic way.
  • Reply 17 of 17
    knowitallknowitall Posts: 1,143member
    boeyc15 said:
    knowitall said:
    Mark Rosekind is an absolute moron, "twice as good as a human driver", wow, even if it is possible how is that to be determined.
    Fully autonomous cars that drive as good as an experienced driver on all kinds of roads under all weather conditions are currently impossible and will stay impossible for many years.
    The only way to approve the driving of an autonomous car is to test it in the same way as human drivers; it has to pass the drivers exam. You can call it the drivers Turing test, if the car performs better or equal to the exam norm it will pass, if it violates the law later on it has to pass the exam again like human drivers have to (in some situations), also, each car has to pass individually.


    IMO -A Driver test presumes the test-ee has all the advanced human motor(pun)  /  coordination skills and has the ability to 'quickly learn' to more advance levels (as stated in many post here... evidence to the contrary!)

     

    Of course.
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