US Treasury Secretary to meet with EU antitrust head, try to block collection of Apple back taxes

Posted:
in General Discussion
U.S. Treasury Secretary Jacob Lew is reportedly meeting with the head of the European Union's antitrust efforts, Margrethe Vestager, ahead of an anticipated ruling on whether the Irish government will have to collect back taxes from Apple.




Lew recently contacted Vestager, trying to persuade her not to order any collection of back taxes, according to Bloomberg. Sources noted that a few days ago, Vestager's office sent out two draft decisions with scenarios for how much Apple might owe.

Since 2014 the E.U. has been investigating whether Irish tax arrangements with Apple constituted unfair state aid in exchange for providing jobs in the country. In fact a preliminary ruling found against Apple and Ireland, but a final ruling has been waiting for some time.

Lew has previously claimed that American firms were being unfairly targeted in E.U. investigations of state aid, even though some European businesses have been subject to them as well. Companies like Amazon, Starbucks, and McDonald's have either come under scrutiny or already been ordered to pay back money to the countries granting special tax breaks.

Both Apple and the Irish government have denied any wrongdoing, and the latter has promised to fight any ordered payments.

The country's Finance Minister, Michael Noonan, recently said that the E.U. could issue a decision as soon as this month. He also cautioned, however, that the U.K.'s vote to leave the E.U. in late June might cause further delays.
«13456

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 119
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,728member
    IMHO US Companies including Apple should be looking to the UK.  It seems pretty clear both countries would like to come to trade agreements and with the exchange rate what a great time to buy into or outright take over UK companies.  In addition, if the UK is smart they will offer as good tax breaks as Ireland for company relocation there and they don't have to ask Brussels!  I am sure the UK £ will rebound sooner than later and be even stronger than it was if not far stronger than the Euro.
    elijahgmonstrosityglynhlatifbpSpamSandwichjbdragonjony0
  • Reply 2 of 119
    radiospaceradiospace Posts: 180member
    The EU a.k.a. Germany are just extorting U.S. firms like Apple with their "back taxes" scheme.... If no international body (WTO?) will step in and prevent this type of behavior, the U.S. needs to start playing equally dirty with all big European corporations doing business in the United States.  (BMW, VW, etc.)  Meanwhile we should be strengthening our future economic ties with the U.K., who, unlike Germany, are actually our friends.
    jbdragonelijahgmonstrositylatifbpjony0
  • Reply 3 of 119
    Time for Irelabd to leave the EU and tell Brussels to go to hell.
    radiospacejbdragonelijahgmonstrositylatifbpjony0
  • Reply 4 of 119
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,843moderator
    Hmm, any additional taxes paid overseas would just reduce a U.S. company's repatriation tax burden here in the states?  That's gotta irk the Treaury secretary.
    nikon133mike1jbdragonDeelronlatifbpjony0airmanchairman
  • Reply 5 of 119
    irelandireland Posts: 17,798member
    In the middle of watching Capitalism: A Love Story.
  • Reply 6 of 119
    mike1mike1 Posts: 3,286member
    Hmm, any additional taxes paid overseas would just reduce a U.S. company's repatriation tax burden here in the states?  That's gotta irk the Treaury secretary.
    Except that repatriation will NEVER occur under current rules.
    radiospacejbdragonlkrupp
  • Reply 7 of 119
    maestro64maestro64 Posts: 5,043member

    Brussels has to pay for all those free loaders they have been letting into the EU over all these years. This the UK wants to leave they tire of having to let people in who want to live in the UK for free.

    I just find it interesting the US care what the EU does about tax collection.


    As I said before most of the Apple/Irish Deal dates back to the 1980's before Ireland came part of the EU, I would image most of the tax deal is grandfather. Also, this knife cuts both ways, when US companies are cutting jobs because they are loosing money, they are not allow to lay of EU workers, they have to give them a yrs notice and still cover lots of their costs, does the EU help US company get rid of dead weight. Also back in the 90's when Apple was trying to shut down it Ireland facility, the Irish Prime Minister came to apple and told them in no uncertain terms if they laid off Irish workers it would be very costly to Apple. Overall the EU has greatly benefitted from US companies setting up shop in the EU. They really need to think twice if they want to do this.

    edited July 2016 radiospaceelijahglatifbpjbdragon
  • Reply 8 of 119
    gwydiongwydion Posts: 1,083member
    The EU a.k.a. Germany are just extorting U.S. firms like Apple with their "back taxes" scheme.... If no international body (WTO?) will step in and prevent this type of behavior, the U.S. needs to start playing equally dirty with all big European corporations doing business in the United States.  (BMW, VW, etc.)  Meanwhile we should be strengthening our future economic ties with the U.K., who, unlike Germany, are actually our friends.
    Taking into account that most of the fines for illegal state aids and that most of the fines for anti competitive behaviour have gone to EU companies, perhaps you should provide some link to your claims
    dysamoriabirko[Deleted User]robertwalter
  • Reply 9 of 119
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    ireland said:
    In the middle of watching Capitalism: A Love Story.
    This has nothing to do with capitalism and has more to do with extortion. Maybe Washington should use the RICO laws against the EU.
    radiospacelatifbp
  • Reply 10 of 119
    gwydiongwydion Posts: 1,083member
    wizard69 said:
    ireland said:
    In the middle of watching Capitalism: A Love Story.
    This has nothing to do with capitalism and has more to do with extortion. Maybe Washington should use the RICO laws against the EU.
    And exactly, what extortion are you talking about?
    dysamoria[Deleted User]
  • Reply 11 of 119
    stevo-nzstevo-nz Posts: 11member
    wizard69 said:
    ireland said:
    In the middle of watching Capitalism: A Love Story.
    This has nothing to do with capitalism and has more to do with extortion. Maybe Washington should use the RICO laws against the EU.
    Of course this has to do with capitalism. Apple doesn't want to pay taxes to the US government and they don't want to pay taxes in Europe. Then to top it all off, most of theses likeminded tax evading businesses (Google, Facebook, Netflix, etc) destroy local industries within many of the countries they operate. Google and Facebook have destroyed local publishers ability to earn advertising revenue, of which a portion was taxed and went to local government. No wonder the world is in a state of turmoil with huge degree's of inequality.
    stourquedysamoria
  • Reply 12 of 119

    Both Apple and the Irish government have denied any wrongdoing, and the latter has promised to fight any ordered payments.

    Actually, it's "...the former has promised..."  The latter is the second party named.   The Irish government is not fighting any payments.  
    dysamoria
  • Reply 13 of 119
    profprof Posts: 84member
    IMHO US Companies including Apple should be looking to the UK.  It seems pretty clear both countries would like to come to trade agreements and with the exchange rate what a great time to buy into or outright take over UK companies.  In addition, if the UK is smart they will offer as good tax breaks as Ireland for company relocation there and they don't have to ask Brussels!  I am sure the UK £ will rebound sooner than later and be even stronger than it was if not far stronger than the Euro.
    UK already has special deals which is why companies like Google and Starbacks set foot there and they're also under a lot of scrutiny by the UK for their tax avoiding schemes. Ireland lost Billions of tax money by doing special taxes just for Apple and consequently they had to be bailed out by the EU -- as far as I'm aware it's the country in the world which can do this.

    I'm not quite sure why you think it is worth subsidising any company for for the sake of having it in the country. At some point Apple won't have another choice but either paying proper taxes where they're realising their earnings or they'll have to repratiate it back to the US and pay taxes there -- either way is fine by me but the current behaviour of suppressing taxes in the name of the shareholder is highly asocial.

    PS: If you seriously think the GBP will rebound you'll find yourself very mistaken soon enough. If Scotland figures out a way to leave there won't be a lot left other than tradition and pride.
    dysamoria[Deleted User]
  • Reply 14 of 119
    profprof Posts: 84member
    maestro64 said:

    Brussels has to pay for all those free loaders they have been letting into the EU over all these years. This the UK wants to leave they tire of having to let people in who want to live in the UK for free.

    I'm not quite sure why you think UK would be the first choice for "free loaders", there're much better countries in the EU for that.
    I just find it interesting the US care what the EU does about tax collection.
    This is rather quick to explain: There's still hope at some point (potentially after more tax relaxation) Apple would repatriate the shitloads of money they have all over the planet (but mostly in the EU) and pay a decent amount of money to the US treasury for doing so. If Apple actually has to pay proper taxes for that shitload, the shitload would diminish quickly to 3 quarters of a shitload and thus diminish the income of the US treasury. At the moment Apple is realising most of its income overseas and (re-)financing it in the US by issuing bonds (i.e. borrowing money).
    dysamoria[Deleted User]
  • Reply 15 of 119
    maestro64maestro64 Posts: 5,043member
    prof said:
    maestro64 said:

    Brussels has to pay for all those free loaders they have been letting into the EU over all these years. This the UK wants to leave they tire of having to let people in who want to live in the UK for free.

    I'm not quite sure why you think UK would be the first choice for "free loaders", there're much better countries in the EU for that.
    I just find it interesting the US care what the EU does about tax collection.
    This is rather quick to explain: There's still hope at some point (potentially after more tax relaxation) Apple would repatriate the shitloads of money they have all over the planet (but mostly in the EU) and pay a decent amount of money to the US treasury for doing so. If Apple actually has to pay proper taxes for that shitload, the shitload would diminish quickly to 3 quarters of a shitload and thus diminish the income of the US treasury. At the moment Apple is realising most of its income overseas and (re-)financing it in the US by issuing bonds (i.e. borrowing money).


    The UK has better health system for starters, my current understanding is the way the EU works it tells each country how may people they have to take based on their ability to support and the UK can support more and has their fair share.

    Keep in mind that Apple keeps most of its overseas money in the cayman island and only a fraction of the money their originated in Ireland or the EU. You have to keep in mind this also works bother way, the US does not tax foreign companies doing business in the US. This is what so many US companies have been moving their US Headquarters outside the US. They only way they can do it is for a non US company to buy them or do a reverse merger of sorts. This why the Pfizer deal feel through US has put a stop to these deal, but they been going on for the last 3 years. I think this has more to do with it than what will happen to apple since there is no deals going on to allow apple to bring it money back at a lower tax. But there is more than meets the eye going on here.

    elijahg
  • Reply 16 of 119
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    maestro64 said:
    prof said:
    I'm not quite sure why you think UK would be the first choice for "free loaders", there're much better countries in the EU for that.
    This is rather quick to explain: There's still hope at some point (potentially after more tax relaxation) Apple would repatriate the shitloads of money they have all over the planet (but mostly in the EU) and pay a decent amount of money to the US treasury for doing so. If Apple actually has to pay proper taxes for that shitload, the shitload would diminish quickly to 3 quarters of a shitload and thus diminish the income of the US treasury. At the moment Apple is realising most of its income overseas and (re-)financing it in the US by issuing bonds (i.e. borrowing money).


    The UK has better health system for starters, my current understanding is the way the EU works it tells each country how may people they have to take based on their ability to support and the UK can support more and has their fair share

    Err, no.  Not at all.

    Free movement for EU citizens.  No common extra-EU immigration policy.
    edited July 2016 [Deleted User]
  • Reply 17 of 119
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,728member
    prof said:
    IMHO US Companies including Apple should be looking to the UK.  It seems pretty clear both countries would like to come to trade agreements and with the exchange rate what a great time to buy into or outright take over UK companies.  In addition, if the UK is smart they will offer as good tax breaks as Ireland for company relocation there and they don't have to ask Brussels!  I am sure the UK £ will rebound sooner than later and be even stronger than it was if not far stronger than the Euro.
    UK already has special deals which is why companies like Google and Starbacks set foot there and they're also under a lot of scrutiny by the UK for their tax avoiding schemes. Ireland lost Billions of tax money by doing special taxes just for Apple and consequently they had to be bailed out by the EU -- as far as I'm aware it's the country in the world which can do this.

    I'm not quite sure why you think it is worth subsidising any company for for the sake of having it in the country. At some point Apple won't have another choice but either paying proper taxes where they're realising their earnings or they'll have to repratiate it back to the US and pay taxes there -- either way is fine by me but the current behaviour of suppressing taxes in the name of the shareholder is highly asocial.

    PS: If you seriously think the GBP will rebound you'll find yourself very mistaken soon enough. If Scotland figures out a way to leave there won't be a lot left other than tradition and pride.
    Yes I seriously do believe the UK will rebound.

    If Scotland leave UK no one in England will notice.  However Scotland will be in one hell of a mess, I doubt the EU would accept them so where would they go for handouts?
    elijahg
  • Reply 18 of 119
    gwydiongwydion Posts: 1,083member
    maestro64 said:
    prof said:
    I'm not quite sure why you think UK would be the first choice for "free loaders", there're much better countries in the EU for that.
    This is rather quick to explain: There's still hope at some point (potentially after more tax relaxation) Apple would repatriate the shitloads of money they have all over the planet (but mostly in the EU) and pay a decent amount of money to the US treasury for doing so. If Apple actually has to pay proper taxes for that shitload, the shitload would diminish quickly to 3 quarters of a shitload and thus diminish the income of the US treasury. At the moment Apple is realising most of its income overseas and (re-)financing it in the US by issuing bonds (i.e. borrowing money).


    The UK has better health system for starters, my current understanding is the way the EU works it tells each country how may people they have to take based on their ability to support and the UK can support more and has their fair share.

    If you're talking about the refugee emigrant crisis, the UK has taken a lot few than less populated countries

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34131911

    If you're talking about EU immigrants, there is free movement and EU can't say any country to take an amount of people

    And do you have any source for that claim that UK health system is better than the other countries from the EU?
    dysamoria
  • Reply 19 of 119
    prof said:
    maestro64 said:

    Brussels has to pay for all those free loaders they have been letting into the EU over all these years. This the UK wants to leave they tire of having to let people in who want to live in the UK for free.

    I'm not quite sure why you think UK would be the first choice for "free loaders", there're much better countries in the EU for that.
    This is rather quick to explain: There's still hope at some point (potentially after more tax relaxation) Apple would repatriate the shitloads of money they have all over the planet (but mostly in the EU) and pay a decent amount of money to the US treasury for doing so. If Apple actually has to pay proper taxes for that shitload, the shitload would diminish quickly to 3 quarters of a shitload and thus diminish the income of the US treasury. At the moment Apple is realising most of its income overseas and (re-)financing it in the US by issuing bonds (i.e. borrowing money).
    The reason why nobody is actually doing anything about this besides just making political noise is because those that are in the know actually understand that companies keeping money overseas keeps demand for US Treasury bonds high which, in turn, keeps the dollar strong. When companies park their money in foreign banks those banks have to buy US treasury bonds to back and insure those accounts. 

    Forcing companies to repatriate their overseas holdings would cause panic in the currency markets almost overnight and make our imports cost more and cut our buying power for many domestic goods. Then there is the other issue with foreign companies operating in the US that would be under pressure by their home countries to repatriate their earnings as a retaliatory measure. Foreign companies like Bayer, SAP, Toyota and Honda which do significant business here also heavily reinvest in the US. We would miss that money.
    edited July 2016 latifbp
  • Reply 20 of 119
    I don't see the problem. Isn't it a problem in the US also that big business and millionaires pay way too little tax by using all kinds of loopholes? I for one am glad that big business would finally start to pay proper taxes, and stop using all kinds of tax shelters. That goes for the EU, but also for the US and other countries (even the UK, they will need the money there). If European business don't pay proper taxes in the US, let them pay them. Let everyone, including Apple, pay what they owe. Get rid of all the special deals and pay what is owed in a normal world.
    dysamoria
Sign In or Register to comment.