South Korean company said to be working on 'Apple Car' battery tech

Posted:
in Future Apple Hardware edited August 2016
A South Korean company's physical advancement in hollow-cored lithium-ion battery technology is allegedly on tap for the potential future "Apple Car" currently in development under the "Project Titan" aegis.




The company that Apple has been having the reported battery discussions with is not named in the etNews report. A high-ranking official from the unnamed company said that "because we made a NDA with Apple, we cannot discuss any information regarding this project."

Hollow-core battery technology gives a battery cell more surface area per battery volume than a closed cylindrical one, and allows for more efficient dissipation of heat generated during the normal charge and discharge cycle.

In an emergent condition, gas vented from a hollow-core battery can be conducted through the center channel for safe dispersion. Additionally, A hollow-cored cylindrical battery can also be engineered to make electrical connections in parallel or in series without soldering or welding, easing repair and potential individual battery cell replacements, as opposed to having to replace an entire bank if a single cell has failed.

Batteries made by the undisclosed company at present are the size of "two fingers" according to the report. It is not known if the hollow core technology is scaleable to a larger cell for any potential Apple Car, or how far the benefits of the technology extend as the cell size increases.

After a report of a change in expected rolloutfor the fruits of "Project Titan" from 2020 to 2021, former Apple executive Bob Mansfield appears to have taken over the project. Apple appears to be hiding the Apple Car effort under shell company SixtyEight Research, LLC in Sunnyvale, Calif.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 21
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 30,581member
    Why wouldn't Tesla utilize this if it was inherently safer or more efficient? Their premium price dictates they have the leeway to choose whatever premium solutions are available. I doubt the accuracy of this rumor.
  • Reply 2 of 21
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 19,818member
    http://servicehostnet.com/domain/68research.com

    Otherwise it doesn't say or mean anything. 
    edited August 2016
  • Reply 3 of 21
    Why wouldn't Tesla utilize this if it was inherently safer or more efficient? Their premium price dictates they have the leeway to choose whatever premium solutions are available. I doubt the accuracy of this rumor.

    This is for future batteries - Tesla is scaling current tech so they can be put into production vehicles. Makes one wonder if they can retrofit their Gigafacttory if a major battery breakthrough occurs.

    And I doubt Tesla has any leeway. They charge a premium price for an average car that happens to be electric and fast in a straight line. If they had "leeway" they should be putting more features into their cars that their competitors have had for years.
    edited August 2016 patchythepirate
  • Reply 4 of 21
    sirlance99sirlance99 Posts: 1,112member
    Why wouldn't Tesla utilize this if it was inherently safer or more efficient? Their premium price dictates they have the leeway to choose whatever premium solutions are available. I doubt the accuracy of this rumor.

    This is for future batteries - Tesla is scaling current tech so they can be put into production vehicles. Makes one wonder if they can retrofit their Gigafacttory if a major battery breakthrough occurs.

    And I doubt Tesla has any leeway. They charge a premium price for an average car that happens to be electric and fast in a straight line. If they had "leeway" they should be putting more features into their cars that their competitors have had for years.
    Tesla will when the technology is perfected. 
  • Reply 5 of 21
    calicali Posts: 3,495member
    I'm starting to think Apple should acquire all companies they work with to fend off future copycats. At the least they can license tech they own to copycats.
  • Reply 6 of 21

    This is for future batteries - Tesla is scaling current tech so they can be put into production vehicles. Makes one wonder if they can retrofit their Gigafacttory if a major battery breakthrough occurs.

    And I doubt Tesla has any leeway. They charge a premium price for an average car that happens to be electric and fast in a straight line. If they had "leeway" they should be putting more features into their cars that their competitors have had for years.
    Tesla will when the technology is perfected. 

    They won't be around that long. Overpriced cars with only average technology/features.
  • Reply 7 of 21
    Tesla will when the technology is perfected. 

    They won't be around that long. Overpriced cars with only average technology/features.
    Tesla has overpriced cars with only average technology/features??? Are you being serious? They have paved the way for every other company to bring electric vehicles not to mention intelligent vehicles to market mainstream.
  • Reply 8 of 21
    sirlance99sirlance99 Posts: 1,112member
    Tesla will when the technology is perfected. 

    They won't be around that long. Overpriced cars with only average technology/features.
    People have said exactly that about Apple products.
    fastasleeploquitur
  • Reply 9 of 21

    They won't be around that long. Overpriced cars with only average technology/features.
    Tesla has overpriced cars with only average technology/features??? Are you being serious? They have paved the way for every other company to bring electric vehicles not to mention intelligent vehicles to market mainstream.

    100% serious. Everyone has the same equipment in their cars to do autonomous driving. The difference is none of them are stupid enough to release a feature that isn't fully tested. The idea of autopilot software being released as a beta is beyond asinine. This isn't a game on your PC, where the worse thing that happens is your game locks up and you have to start over.

    The Model S (and especially the Model X) are sorely lacking in features for what they charge. They don't even have basic luxury features like rear climate controls or rear monitors/entertainment system. Or 360 degree cameras that cars half their price have. Or heads up displays. Or night vision cameras. I'll repeat what I've said many times: I don't know how someone can drive a Model X and be impressed. Unless it's the first SUV they've ever driven in their life. Put it beside a Range Rover at the same price and you'll quickly realize what a POS the Tesla is. And even a Range Rover would seem like a Toyota for reliability next to a Model X.
    tmaybrucemc
  • Reply 10 of 21
    Rumor has it that the company is Orange Power who's site appears to be offline now although it was online just minutes ago at http://www.orangepower.kr/eng/
    I managed to grab a few screenshots in case the site does not come back. smile 

    The site is back on line.

    http://www.orangepower.kr/eng/

    I guess they increased their data quota.
    edited August 2016 gatorguypatchythepirate
  • Reply 11 of 21
    Can someone translate the bottom bitmap please?

    Site is back online.
    http://www.orangepower.kr/eng/
    edited August 2016 patchythepirate
  • Reply 12 of 21
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 19,818member
    Googapplesauce007 said:
    Can someone translate the bottom bitmap please?



    Google Chrome will translate it automatically. FWIW it just notes something about the amount of data exceeding what is permitted. 
  • Reply 13 of 21
    kamiltonkamilton Posts: 259member
    Tesla has too many orders to fill to innovate battery technology right now.  They need solid reliable volume, yesterday.  Accordingly, the next 2-3 years will see Gigafactory producing necessary Lithium ion batteries that'll work with designs to be shipped.  Elon is too smart not to have next generation plans, and likely will allocate space at the factory for that.  Right now, he's just got to ship what he already has deposits on.

    Apple has more time to pick and choose from emerging technologies.  A Tesla or even a BMW acquisition still makes sense to me.  They don't need to reinvent the whole wheel, and they have huge experience gaps.  Apple is great with electrons and software, but suspension? Steering? Braking? Interior Ergonomics?  Those are massively complex areas, that usually define the driver experience.  

    Personally, I want that Apple toothbrush 
    patchythepirate
  • Reply 14 of 21
    Where are the innovations coming from USA... ..??

    brucemc
  • Reply 15 of 21
    flaneurflaneur Posts: 4,495member
    Where are the innovations coming from USA... ..??

    Wake me up when Sony comes out with the equivalent of an iPhone. Or an operating system better than iOS. Or an ecosystem . . . well, you get the idea. It's the whole product and the whole system, stupid.
  • Reply 16 of 21
    This seems interesting. Apple must be having some real issues with lithium air technology. Such a shame as researchers at MIT seem to have made a real breakthrough in the technology. 

    http://newatlas.com/lithium-air-batteries/44648/

    Hyundai is also feverishly working on the technology, funding a group of researchers from Seoul National University and UT Dallas. 

    https://www.utdallas.edu/news/2016/5/23-32059_Discovery-Could-Energize-Development-of-Longer-Las_story-wide.html

    I actually respect Musk and what he is attempting to do, but I have to agree with Ericthehalfbee. Tesla vehicles are pretty poor products. As much as I wanted to buy a Tesla, I will be purchasing the upcoming Ioniq which will be a vastly superior vehicle with better actual reliability than a Toyota. 

    The Hyundai story is quite interesting as the company is also very heavily invested into fuel cell technology. Musk refers to the technology as fool cell much to his discredit. The technology has real merit and some very pronounced advantages over lithium technology including lithium air cell technology. Hydrogen is very close to being able to displace gasoline for propulsion. Whether it's hydrogen or lithium will depend on the advances made in the respective technologies. I have no stake in either technology and frankly don't really care which technology becomes dominant. However, the days of gasoline are numbered. One of them is destined to replace petroleum. And Apple is taking somewhat of a risk betting everything on lithium. Conversely, Toyota and Honda are taking even larger risks betting everything on hydrogen. Hyundai is hedging both technologies. They lead in fuel cells and are neck and among the leaders in lithium batteries. 

    My personal feelings are that the Japanese are so far behind in lithium technology, they are hoping that hydrogen becomes the new fuel source. But it's a little disingenuous as Hyundai is actually far ahead of them also in fuel cell technology also with the next fuel cell using much less platinum catalyst than the current hydrogen powered Tucson. 

    As far as Apple is concerned, lithium really is a fairly safe bet as lithium technology will continue to advance. There are too many consumer electronics that stand to benefit with advances in lithium technology. The lithium air cell will one day become reality. Whether it powers automobiles will depend on whether hydrogen power advances faster. The development of a reliable carbon nanotube catalyst would mean some very big things for fuel cells. 

    Hyundai actually has little worry about Apple entering the automobile market. I have a lot of respect for Apple, but vehicle technology is a different beast all together. And building a stylish, reliable, performance and safe vehicle is a complicated matter. It is much more than putting together a drive train and body. 

    Google has already learned that lesson although the comparison isn't entirely fair as Apple actually builds nice hardware. Google cannot do much more than software. Still, I would be surprised to see Apple build a vehicle that can actually compete with the established players. 

    It is interesting to see Apple partner with a Korean lithium cell technology firm. It will be interesting to see what comes of it. 

    As far as Tesla is concerned, they build vehicles powered by laptop batteries. They should have partnered with the Koreans as LG Chem also has state of the art lithium technology. At least Apple recognizes the need for a quality battery. 
  • Reply 17 of 21
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,394member
    This seems interesting. Apple must be having some real issues with lithium air technology. Such a shame as researchers at MIT seem to have made a real breakthrough in the technology. 

    http://newatlas.com/lithium-air-batteries/44648/

    Hyundai is also feverishly working on the technology, funding a group of researchers from Seoul National University and UT Dallas. 

    https://www.utdallas.edu/news/2016/5/23-32059_Discovery-Could-Energize-Development-of-Longer-Las_story-wide.html

    I actually respect Musk and what he is attempting to do, but I have to agree with Ericthehalfbee. Tesla vehicles are pretty poor products. As much as I wanted to buy a Tesla, I will be purchasing the upcoming Ioniq which will be a vastly superior vehicle with better actual reliability than a Toyota. 

    The Hyundai story is quite interesting as the company is also very heavily invested into fuel cell technology. Musk refers to the technology as fool cell much to his discredit. The technology has real merit and some very pronounced advantages over lithium technology including lithium air cell technology. Hydrogen is very close to being able to displace gasoline for propulsion. Whether it's hydrogen or lithium will depend on the advances made in the respective technologies. I have no stake in either technology and frankly don't really care which technology becomes dominant. However, the days of gasoline are numbered. One of them is destined to replace petroleum. And Apple is taking somewhat of a risk betting everything on lithium. Conversely, Toyota and Honda are taking even larger risks betting everything on hydrogen. Hyundai is hedging both technologies. They lead in fuel cells and are neck and among the leaders in lithium batteries. 

    My personal feelings are that the Japanese are so far behind in lithium technology, they are hoping that hydrogen becomes the new fuel source. But it's a little disingenuous as Hyundai is actually far ahead of them also in fuel cell technology also with the next fuel cell using much less platinum catalyst than the current hydrogen powered Tucson. 

    As far as Apple is concerned, lithium really is a fairly safe bet as lithium technology will continue to advance. There are too many consumer electronics that stand to benefit with advances in lithium technology. The lithium air cell will one day become reality. Whether it powers automobiles will depend on whether hydrogen power advances faster. The development of a reliable carbon nanotube catalyst would mean some very big things for fuel cells. 

    Hyundai actually has little worry about Apple entering the automobile market. I have a lot of respect for Apple, but vehicle technology is a different beast all together. And building a stylish, reliable, performance and safe vehicle is a complicated matter. It is much more than putting together a drive train and body. 

    Google has already learned that lesson although the comparison isn't entirely fair as Apple actually builds nice hardware. Google cannot do much more than software. Still, I would be surprised to see Apple build a vehicle that can actually compete with the established players. 

    It is interesting to see Apple partner with a Korean lithium cell technology firm. It will be interesting to see what comes of it. 

    As far as Tesla is concerned, they build vehicles powered by laptop batteries. They should have partnered with the Koreans as LG Chem also has state of the art lithium technology. At least Apple recognizes the need for a quality battery. 
    There's no infrastructure in place for hydrogen refueling; no consumer in his right mind will buy a hydrogen vehicle in the next decade and probably not in the next two decades. GM lost a billion dollars on it's hydrogen vehicle development, which they repurposed as a serial hybrid, the Volt. Next up for them is the Bolt EV.

    The best opportunity for hydrogen is aircraft, trains, and on highway trucks, and that won't be realized for decades either.
    SpamSandwich
  • Reply 18 of 21

    My personal feelings are that the Japanese are so far behind in lithium technology, they are hoping that hydrogen becomes the new fuel source. But it's a little disingenuous as Hyundai is actually far ahead of them also in fuel cell technology also with the next fuel cell using much less platinum catalyst than the current hydrogen powered Tucson. 
    I think Panasonic provides most of the cells used in vehicles - Nissan, Tesla, and others. Also, the Japanese have developed a dual-carbon battery that beats lithium: it charges 20x as fast, generates almost no heat, and endures 3x the charge cycles. 

    "The battery, which is cheap to manufacture, safe, and environmentally friendly, could be ideal to improve the range and charging times of electric cars."

    http://newatlas.com/dual-carbon-fast-charging-battery/32121/
    gatorguy
  • Reply 19 of 21

    My personal feelings are that the Japanese are so far behind in lithium technology, they are hoping that hydrogen becomes the new fuel source. But it's a little disingenuous as Hyundai is actually far ahead of them also in fuel cell technology also with the next fuel cell using much less platinum catalyst than the current hydrogen powered Tucson. 
    I think Panasonic provides most of the cells used in vehicles - Nissan, Tesla, and others. Also, the Japanese have developed a dual-carbon battery that beats lithium: it charges 20x as fast, generates almost no heat, and endures 3x the charge cycles. 

    "The battery, which is cheap to manufacture, safe, and environmentally friendly, could be ideal to improve the range and charging times of electric cars."

    http://newatlas.com/dual-carbon-fast-charging-battery/32121/
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