French, German ministers to meet in push to counter encrypted messaging apps

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France's interior minister on Thursday announced plans to meet with a German counterpart and tackle the issue of encrypted messaging apps, which he argued are preventing intelligence agencies from fighting terrorism.




The two will get together on Aug. 23 in Paris, and discuss a European plan with the ultimate goal of international action, Reuters said. France's Bernard Cazeneuve told reporters that encryption is a "central issue" in combating terrorism.

"France will make proposals. I have sent a number of them to my Germany colleague," he added.

France has been hit with a number of Islamist terrorist attacks in the past two years. In a recent incident involving the murder of a priest in Rouen, one of the attackers regularly communicated with followers via Telegram, a messaging app mostly popular outside the U.S. Like Signal, WhatsApp, and Apple's own Messages, Telegram offers end-to-end encryption -- something so secure that even an app's creators can't intercept conversations.

Spy and law enforcement agencies around the world have regularly complained about encryption causing communications to "go dark." A number of corporations and privacy groups, Apple among them, have countered that many well-intentioned individuals need the technology as protection against hackers, criminals, and potentially malicious government entities.

It's not clear what kind of measures French and European governments might take, but some U.S. politicians and officials have backed measures that would force app creators to offer a backdoor, and/or decryption on demand. To date these haven't succeeded, and companies like Apple have argued that they would fundamentally weaken security.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 30
    john.bjohn.b Posts: 2,721member
    Ban math.

    Sheesh!
    jbdragontallest skiltexdeafylatifbpracerhomie
  • Reply 2 of 30
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 8,696member
    They're already screwed. Too late for them now. :#  

    The facts of the matter are that the worst German leader since WWII, that vile woman AKA Merkel, invited the entire world to migrate to Germany and the EU. Terrorists all over the world also heard her call, and they've taken her up on her offer.

    Now there are mass rapes and sexual assaults everywhere. :# The worst mass rapes and sexual assaults in Germany since the fall of Berlin in 1945. Well done my EU friends!  :#

    And let's not even mention terrorists shooting people up everywhere, terrorists driving large trucks through crowds of people, and terrorists blowing themselves up left and right. :#

    These retards think that encryption is the problem?  :#

    All I have to say is, hahaha! What a bunch of totally clueless, pathetic people, who are so clueless, that their cluelessness is downright dangerous, and has gotten so many people killed already.

    Keep up the good work, my EU friends. :#

    It's no wonder that the UK wisely chose to break away from you lot. You're a bunch of deranged lunatics and pathetic appeasers and I laugh in your general direction.
    jbdragonmacseekermonstrosityradarthekatanton zuykoventropysJanNLlatifbpjony0urahara
  • Reply 3 of 30
    jbdragonjbdragon Posts: 2,170member
    So their solution is mass 24/7 spying on everyone because that's the only chance they have of catching a terrorist before they do anything by reading text messages.  After the fact is pretty pointless. In general their dead at that point.  Besides most all of these terrorists have been out in the open using no encryption!!! 

    Importing a bunch of terrorists into your country also doesn't help.  Instead in fixing their own country from there own radical Muslims, they flee to other countries and bring the same old crap with them including the terrorists.  Along with the hate and everything else.  You go into these other country's and don't change and adapt but pretend your in little Iraq, or little Syria.  The problems are not being fixed, the problems are now just spreading to other countries.
    apple ][macseekertallest skilJanNLlatifbpbigjony0
  • Reply 4 of 30
    France's interior minister on Thursday announced plans to meet with a German counterpart and tackle the issue of encrypted messaging apps, which he argued are preventing intelligence agencies from fighting terrorism.
    Gotta stop those natives from talking about the invasion! That’s a hate crime!

    I’ll teach you how to fight terrorism:

    CLOSE YOUR GODDAMN BORDERS AND DEPORT EVERY SINGLE LAST ONE OF THEM.

    edited August 2016 macseekerapple ][maestro64radarthekatJanNLbigjony0urahararacerhomiegtr
  • Reply 5 of 30
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,865member
    France's interior minister on Thursday announced plans to meet with a German counterpart and tackle the issue of encrypted messaging apps, which he argued are preventing intelligence agencies from fighting terrorism.
    Gotta stop those natives from talking about the invasion! That’s a hate crime!

    I’ll teach you how to fight terrorism:

    CLOSE YOUR GODDAMN BORDERS AND DEPORT EVERY SINGLE LAST ONE OF THEM.

    Exactly!   The stupidity of the German government here is beyond belief.   ISIS has in fact said they are using the flow of refugees to infiltrate Europe.    This isn't even a secret.   Lock down your borders and the problem will go away.    Beyond that why would anybody want to let people into their country that are fleeing a conflict instead of standing up for what is right?    Essentially you are letting people into your country that are least likely to succeed EVEN IF THEY AREN'T TERRORIST!    

    Frankly one of the fee reasons I support Trump is his stated desire to keep terrorist and criminals out of this country.    The left doesn't like the idea but screw them.   There is no good reason to swing the doors open wide and ignore every indicator there is about the risks involved in letting terrorists into the country.   
    tallest skilradarthekatJanNLbigjony0gtr
  • Reply 6 of 30
    fracfrac Posts: 480member
    apple ][ said:
    They're already screwed. Too late for them now. :#  

    The facts of the matter are that the worst German leader since WWII, that vile woman AKA Merkel, invited the entire world to migrate to Germany and the EU. Terrorists all over the world also heard her call, and they've taken her up on her offer.

    Now there are mass rapes and sexual assaults everywhere. :# The worst mass rapes and sexual assaults in Germany since the fall of Berlin in 1945. Well done my EU friends!  :#

    And let's not even mention terrorists shooting people up everywhere, terrorists driving large trucks through crowds of people, and terrorists blowing themselves up left and right. :#

    These retards think that encryption is the problem?  :#

    All I have to say is, hahaha! What a bunch of totally clueless, pathetic people, who are so clueless, that their cluelessness is downright dangerous, and has gotten so many people killed already.

    Keep up the good work, my EU friends. :#

    It's no wonder that the UK wisely chose to break away from you lot. You're a bunch of deranged lunatics and pathetic appeasers and I laugh in your general direction.
    Just two words...vile xenophobia and I'll quote three of yours back at you - "deranged lunatic(s) and pathetic"

    You may not agree with Europe's hopes for a multicultural society but the majority here do and democracy wins whether or not you are onboard. 
    As for the 'surveillance' aspect, are you seriously suggesting the current Conservative gang_without_a_plan for Brexit...doesn't harbour exactly the same aspirations ré 'backdoors'?
    They have also stated that they have no desire to withdraw from EU wide security and intelligence sharing, so theoretically the UK would still be subject. They all want the same thing. US, UK, EU, China, India, Russia.....
    They can't have it but they will come up with stupid unenforceable stuff in the meantime.
    spacerayslondorgeorgt
  • Reply 7 of 30
    frac said:
    xenophobia

    You may not agree with Europe's hopes for a multicultural society
    1. Cannot exist, by definition.
    2. They’re not Europe’s hopes.
    but the majority here do
    1. Too fucking bad. The majority is not always sane.
    2. No, not by a long shot.
    democracy wins
    1. Unless it goes in a way you don’t like, in which case it was rigged.
    2. That’s why the US is a republic, not a democracy. Because fuck mob rule.

    apple ][latifbppscooter63biggtr
  • Reply 8 of 30
    After Microsoft let their 'Gold Key' out of freaking front door.. that just tells us 'authorized backdoors' are a joke.. might as well as just outlaw encryption ... then people will just side load encryption tools anyway and flip authorities the bird.
    jfc1138lostkiwispacerayspscooter63big
  • Reply 9 of 30
    frac said:
    xenophobia

    1. Cannot exist, by definition.
    2. They’re not Europe’s hopes.
    1. Too fucking bad. The majority is not always sane.
    2. No, not by a long shot.
    1. Unless it goes in a way you don’t like, in which case it was rigged.
    2. That’s why the US is a republic, not a democracy. Because fuck mob rule.

    True.. Mob rule generally doesn't work out.. just look at Social networks.. they go crazy of the stupidest things..

    Twitter is a great example... a person was pissed at Twitter, intentionally started a rumor it was shutting down and it went viral. Everyone believed it, including stock markets.. its price dropped.. on a false claim everyone just took as true.. the mob rule = dumb idiots with hoods, torches, and pitchforks .. For examples search Google on Trump presidential campaign. . :p
    edited August 2016 tallest skilbiggeorgt
  • Reply 10 of 30
    Other than the usual terrorism/xenophobia/deportation posts, it's better to look at this from a feasibility and technicality stand point: 

    It doesn't matter if Apple, Facebook, Google and Microsoft abandoned any and all efforts to provide encrypted services - it literally does not matter one bit - any competent *individual* can roll their own end-to-end encrypted messaging/email.

    Email being so trivial that it takes 5 minutes with any modern email software. From basic number reference books all the way to steganography, there were ample ways to send secret messages before the advent of encryption - with technology these same means can be rolled out just as easily and conveniently.

    Also for context about terrorism, we don't have particularly more now than we have had over the past 40 years. The impact of terrorism is really only seen in the media - the death count is both lower than it used to be, but also only a mere fraction of more common ways to die*. Really, it's pretty hard to get as excited as you all about terrorism and xenophobia when you're significantly more likely to die from other controllable aspects of typical life: driving a car, not eating well/exercising, gun violence or much more simply: poverty.
    It's not to suggest that we don't do anything about terrorism (far from it), but removing encryption is not the solution, nor even slightly effective at stemming the real causes of premature death.

    * USA Figures:
    Heart Disease 610,000+ per annum (cancer is similarly high)
    Road toll 32,000+ per annum
    Gun violence (ex suicide) 27,000+ injuries w 13,300+ deaths per annum
    Terrorism (all groups & incidences combined): ~5 per annum, frequently 0 per year
    In short: use your logical brain and don't be so driven by difficult to substantiate emotional reactions/fears.
    edited August 2016 lostkiwibigstourquegeorgtbadmonk
  • Reply 11 of 30
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member
    draymen said:
    For examples search Google on Trump presidential campaign. . p
    Oh, speaking of which.
    Assange appeared via video link from the Ecuadorian embassy in London as part of the New Era of Journalism: Farewell to Mainstream international media forum in Moscow. He said: “Google is directly engaged with Hillary Clinton’s campaign” and claimed the technology giant used the US State Department on  a quid pro quo” basis.

    Fortune reported last year that researchers had found that “Google search rankings could potentially decide the outcome of an election”.

    “Through five experiments in two countries… biased rankings in search results can shift the opinions of undecided voters by 20% or more, sometimes even reaching as high as 80% in some demographic groups.

    “If Google tweaks its algorithm to show more positive search results for a candidate, the researchers say, the searcher may form a more positive opinion of him or her.”


    edited August 2016 apple ][JanNLlatifbpbig
  • Reply 12 of 30
    Eventually encryption is going to get so pervasive that there won't be any available "evidence" to throw terrorists in jail before they do anything. I could see where the burden of proof becomes a lot lower for incarceration given these apps and how they put data out of reach for govts. If you expect govts. to stand idly and let silicon valley dictate public safety, you'll be sorely mistaken. If China ever has mass terrorism you can guarantee they'll ask apple for back doors, or show apple the door. I'm sure apple will give in if forced with this.
  • Reply 13 of 30
    lvidallvidal Posts: 158member
    So lets say the can access telegram messages, whatsapp, messages, facebook messenger, signal, you name it. So what? What counter terrorism does it solves? Terrorist have enough money to create an app like that and simply share it between them privately. Maybe they even have that app. What the hell they are going to do then? WHAT? Ask terrorist to give them the encryption key? Gime me a break!
    latifbpbig
  • Reply 14 of 30
    sandorsandor Posts: 549member
    France's interior minister on Thursday announced plans to meet with a German counterpart and tackle the issue of encrypted messaging apps, which he argued are preventing intelligence agencies from fighting terrorism.
    Gotta stop those natives from talking about the invasion! That’s a hate crime!

    I’ll teach you how to fight terrorism:

    CLOSE YOUR GODDAMN BORDERS AND DEPORT EVERY SINGLE LAST ONE OF THEM.



    How does this stop Americans from shooting up theaters in Aurora or schools in Sandy Hook? And countless other locales?

    Sure, it is is a popular close-minded idea, especially after *your* family has already immigrated and naturalized, but in the US at least, home-grown white Christian gun nuts kill more citizens.

    Australia solved their home grown mass murders quite well.
    edited August 2016 kevin keelondorsingularityrealjustinlongstourquegeorgtbadmonk
  • Reply 15 of 30
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member
    sandor said:
    How does this stop Americans from shooting up theaters in Aurora or schools in Sandy Hook? And countless other locales?
    Guess what we’re not discussing. Are you stupid? No, my mistake. Why are you stupid?

    “Closing the borders doesn’t stop car crashes, so we better not do it!” Are you fucking serious?
    close-minded
    Buzzword. Either have a real argument or prove your claim.
    especially after *your* family has already immigrated and naturalized
    Guess whose family fought in the Revolution. Guess who doesn’t have an argument in the first place even if that wasn’t the case.
    home-grown white Christian gun nuts kill more citizens.
    No, blacks kill the most. Try again.
    Australia solved their hem grown mass murders really well…
    By revoking their citizens’ human rights. Hooray! Except wait, no, the gun ban had ZERO EFFECT ON HOMICIDES and it increased sexual assault.
    apple ][entropysJanNLlatifbppscooter63biggtr
  • Reply 16 of 30
    entropysentropys Posts: 1,850member
    Excellent bit of Fisking there, Tallest Skill.

    anyway, isn't what the EU authorities are doing here a bit like treating symptoms rather than the problem itself? 
    Like fixing a headache caused by a brain tumour with some aspirin. Control your borders, or give up pretending to be a nation state.
    tallest skilJanNLlatifbp
  • Reply 17 of 30
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member
    entropys said:
    Excellent bit of Fisking there, Tallest Skill.
    What I do has a name? Weird. Then again, humans are big on naming everything they come across.
    Control your borders, or give up pretending to be a nation state.
    To the elites, that sounds less like an ultimatum and more like a wet dream.
    latifbp
  • Reply 18 of 30

    1. Cannot exist, by definition.
    2. They’re not Europe’s hopes.
    1. Too fucking bad. The majority is not always sane.
    2. No, not by a long shot.
    1. Unless it goes in a way you don’t like, in which case it was rigged.
    2. That’s why the US is a republic, not a democracy. Because fuck mob rule.

    I think you need to explain 1). Why do you think it can't exist? There are places where it does exist.

    As for this
    <i>
    1. Unless it goes in a way you don’t like, in which case it was rigged.
    2. That’s why the US is a republic, not a democracy. Because fuck mob rule.</i>
    I guess you are a Trump voter. He's already laying the groundwork for the next revolution.
    Why else would he be saying that the election is rigged?
    And then telling people to go kill Hillary...
    Dr Strangelove is indeed turning from fiction into fact.

    Very glad that I didn't take up that offer to become a US Citizen all those years ago and went to live in a much saner place. Still bonkers at times but at least we don't have half the population armed with guns.





    londorbigstourque
  • Reply 19 of 30
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member
    I think you need to explain 1). Why do you think it can't exist? There are places where it does exist.
    Certainly. All studies of human behavior and interaction prove that homogeny is not only desired over heterogeny, it is actively sought out. And all aspects of society–from psychological to physical (violence)–degrade in the presence of multiculturalism. There is no such thing as a successful multicultural society. You may see cosmopolitan areas (with, inevitably, still more violence per capita), but in them there is always self-segregation.
    I guess you are a Trump voter. He's already laying the groundwork for the next revolution. 
    We damn well need one. Should have had one in 1913, and if not then, 1946. The federal government needs to be put back in its place. If not peacefully, then violently. No qualms about that whatsoever.
    Why else would he be saying that the election is rigged?
    Because sources are showing exactly that, not even talking about the republican primary! Voter fraud has increased quite a bit in recent years. We have peaceful legal responses to this, of course, but when they fail (or are not invoked, purposely), we also have a violent LEGAL response. See: The Battle of Athens.
    And then telling people to go kill Hillary…
    Nope. Try again.
    Dr Strangelove is indeed turning from fiction into fact.
    ANIMALS VILL BE BRED UND SCHLAUGHTERED!
    a much saner place.
    Nowhere on Earth is as free as the US, so I’d question the call of “sanity”.
    at least we don't have half the population armed with guns.
    “At least” meaning an overall increased chance of rape, theft, and all manner of violence, etc. than places with guns, got it.
    JanNLlatifbpbig
  • Reply 20 of 30
    fracfrac Posts: 480member
    Nowhere on Earth is as free as the US,
    Still fighting the War of Independance. So predictable with your hate fuelled bile, devoid of empathy, dishonest and a stuck_in_a_rut gun nut.
    Yes, there's lots the US is free of too
    londorsingularitystourque
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