The solution is simple: If you feel the product isn't worth the expense, don't buy it.
TBH, Apple COMPLETELY screwed this up.
This is what I've been waiting for. Better, even.
Why remove *essential* and necessary ports?
Which ports do you consider essential and why does this sound like the same bellyaching when Apple moved to USB (Type-A) and pulled the rest of the PC world along with it?
Why remove MagSafe?
Why keep it? Why would you prefer to use a proprietary PSU can connector when USB-C cables and PSUs with a USB out-port are universal and cheap?
If you really need a magnetic connector because you're weirdly tripping over your power cable and the shallow USB-C still won't pop out properly, even though the original MagSafe was born out of a replacmetnt for a long power cable that went relatively deep into your Mac, then why not get one of the 3rd-party solutions?
Personally, I love that the wonderful USB-C will be the go-to connector for the entire industry for power, data, and video. This means lower costs for power cord replacments and being able to have multiple power cords in various places without the high cost of needing to pay Apple for extra PSUs.
These were completely fine, and all of these technologies are still extremely relevant.
They were fine. So was VGA and parrell port printer cables when Apple moved to USB. Do you still want that back? How about the CD/DVD drives? No, it's less relevant since it's not being replaced with a propriety solution and Macs then had a useable battery life of 2-3 hours and now they can get you through a full work day.
And what the hell is the pricing on these? Completely unnecessary to jack up the price by $200+.
Why is it unnecessary? How can you determine what is necessary or unnecessary for Apple? What you mean to say is "I wish they didn't make it more expensive for me"; and that's fine. You don't have to like that it's more expensive, or that these wonderful features don't appeal to you. You even have the right to complain that they aren't using Kaby Lake processoers that don't yet exist for Apple's needs. It don't mean you sound reasonable, but you have the right to say stupid things.
N0 Mac Pro or MBA update? This was a complete joke.
No desktop Mac updates. A lot of wish they had updated these machins. They didn't. Get over it.
As for the the MacBook Air, it was updated today. It's not the entry-level 13" MacBook Pro without the Touch Bar.
I think it's time to say goodbye to Tim.
Did you create a new account, Sog?
Change brings an outbreak of mass insanity, and we're only 12 hours into the new order. A week from now, most people will have digested the news and will have moved on.
I admit that I'm usually on the bleeding-edge of technology, but it's usually because I've been wanting these advancement for years. Even the Touch Bar I've wanted, although my concept was to make the trackpad a display, which could be viable but I think Apple's concept is better.
Those that against technology advancing because it's different or because the entire world will take some time to catch up, I refer to as being on the clotting-edge of technology.
why does this sound like the same bellyaching when Apple moved to USB (Type-A) and pulled the rest of the PC world along with it?
I always chuckle a little bit when people bring up the original iMac that brought USB to the table as if the situations were equivalent.
First, it was a desktop so having to use adapters is much less of a hassle. Connect it and forget it. It's not going anywhere and I don't need to carry adapters around with me.
Why can't you connect it and forget it to today? After I made my MBP purchase I want to Monoprice and ordered many extra cables and one (f)USB-Ato-(m)USB-C adapter. The cables were 3x USB-A-to-USB-C at 6" in length so I could test how long my work vehicle will take to charge my new MBP whilst driving from one to three of the 3 12V ports, since they said that all 4 TB ports can be used for charging. This is an amazing step for everyone, not just Mac users. The only downside is the automotive industry is probably 5 years behind on adopting USB-C… unless Apple has something to say about. Perhaps Tesla, too.
Second, exactly what did the USB port replace? 1) SCSI, which very, very few people used. 2) ADB, but Apple included USB keyboard and mouse so ADB was no longer needed. 3) Serial, a valid loss, but other than a printer what was being connected to this port (modem and Ethernet were built in)?
The port interfaces they replaced made connectivity cheaper, helped push all other vendors to follow suit, and made the number of cables need less expensive.
It also lacked a floppy drive, but you could get one to plug into that USB part...see first point above...plug it in and forget about it.
I have no idea why you're advocating for a floppy drive. And as for plugging in and forgetting about it, OWC makes a great product that will allow you to plug in a single USB-C cable and get USB-A, USB-C, Ethernet, SD card slot, and maybe other things. Keep it on your desk at home since you're looking at as a desktop machine being superior. If not, it's very potable for that rare occasion.
But now we are talking about a portable computer that travels to other locations and needs to be able to interact with a large number of devices from flash drives, to iDevices, GPS sport watches, cameras, printers, network adapters, etc, etc. None of these things will function if I don't have an adapter. As I've stated previously, on portable Macs up until the recent MacBook, Apple has recognized this and provided transitional models to help bridge the gap between the old and new port standards.
What's the issue? Either keep your old Mac, don't buy a Mac, or pay next to nothing at Monoprice to get some simple adapters or replacement cables you can keep attached for this old hat devices that still haven't caught up to supporting USB-C.
As for cameras, do people still buy new cameras that don't have WiFi or offload picture so much that the occasional use of an external SD card is an extreme idea?
I agree with you that USB C/TB3 is the future. It will eventually be the port to rule them all...eventually. But that doesn't get things done today.
How does USB-C become the future if no one is willing to support the transition? If Apple had included USB 1.0 Type-A so long ago WITHOUT removing any other port there would have been zero incentive for accessory makers to make the change.
If this doesn't appeal to you because the rest of the industry still has to wait for Apple to take the first step, then just stick with whatever Mac you have or buy the 2015 model which will cover you for several years to come. By then, the rest shouldn't be a problem.
With storage capacities of 256 and 512 GB doesn't cut it for me. One TB storage capacity should be the minimum for the MacBook Pro.
I understand wanting/needing the extra ports (even though I'm glad they've replaced with a wonderful, universal port interface), but I don't understand why the minimum capacity storage should 1TB simply because anything lower doesn't satisfy your needs.
Including myself, I know 4 people that have already bought the new MBP, and every single one got 512GB or 256GB. All my real data is is on a local server and my job doesn't require excessive amounts of data on my system* so I don't need 1TB or more on my portable MBP. I could even get away with 256GB but decided to get 512GB because of potential growth needs, resale in 1–3 years, and for increased read/write performance.
* Actually, there's an argument that my job could be slightly helped by putting the 2.1TiB of a 4TB external drive synced via BitTorrent Sync onto my MBP for some additional simplicity, but they don't offer a large enough SSD to suit that need and I only need access to those large image files infrequency, which makes it a moot point.
Hello Soli;
Sometimes when I'm at the family ranch, we have no Internet service for the current MacBook Pro that I have, I would like to have the necessary applications/files with me. Yeah, I have the SSD down to the bare minimum for what I do. I do have an iPad Air 2 that has mobile data service but don't want to pay extra for the tethered service. Yeah, my current late 2008 late MacBook Pro has a 1 TB SSD and it's nearly filled up.
Hope this makes sense to you.
Why does such an excessive amount of data have to be on the MBP? Is there no option for a larger 3rd-party SSD compatible with your MBP?
And, again, why do your needs mean that more common storage capacity needs be excluded from the line up? You know this would drive the starting price even more, right? And not just to the stated prices for those higher configurations, but even higher since they're not losing many, many sales on the lower-end which now need to have prices adjusted to maintain profit margins for that product category.
Practically speaking, what are folks thinking the real-world speed increases are going to be compared to the 2015 models? Apple hyped some pretty hefty increases, but I doubt that's what we'll actually see. I'm sure there will be benchmarks soon enough, but curious what expectations are.
Like all things it depends. CPU wise intel simply hasn't done much for CPU performance lately.
Yeah I think it looks great! Only problem for me is I have a MBP that is only 6 months old. So this won't be on my shopping list. If that wasn't the case however I would get the new MBP.
I have the first retina MBP from 2012, it's in mint condition and is still blazingly fast. Apple has really changed my idea of how long a computer lasts. Even though it's 4 years old, it literally feels like brand new and faster than any other computer I use. My job assigned me a brand new Dell laptop this year and it's a dog compared to my MBP. I actually don't intend to even think about a new one for at least another 2-3 years. Although I wouldn't be surprised if Apple cuts me off with an updated OS that I can't use before that.
Yes, that's a problem... It goes beyond 'planned obsolescent' and becomes forced obsolescence. MS supports their OS's for far longer than Apple does which enables non-Apple products to have a far longer lifespan. Let's see: a $2K MBP with a 5 year life span costs $400/year. That's the cost of some smartphones and nearly the cost of a 5S.
Having worked around the man, he would have. He would have paired down that strip to basic system functions and quick glimpse actions and extended the other functioning touch capabilities into the keyboard.
Three years from now, Apple will do just that.
Really? Jobs helped usher in lots of 'control strips' over the years. Since a physical keyboard for typing is perhaps the most important distinction between a laptop and an iPad, I'm pretty sure you're wrong about replacing a laptop's keyboard with a touch screen. "Where's my 'S' key? Oh now it's a smiley face or a paintbrush or the color red..." Not going to happen.
Actually, the important distinction is a mouse, not a keyboard. IPad-Pro already has a keyboard.
does anyone know if the SSD is removable ? if yes I will just go for the 1Tb version and upgrade later to a 2Tb SSD when they become available from third parties.
Not stubborn and stupid, but shall we say unsympathetic to engineering and production challenges. Each compromise wth past standards in the machine not only represents thousands of hours of engineering time, millions of dollars of resources as the compromises are prototyped back and forth, but most important they introduce fatal distractions and dispiriting rats nests of pointless finessing over obsolescences that should just be cut and done with. You have to think like Jobs did. Just buy an adapter.
"This is s**t. FIX IT!" ... Steve cared about the customer a little more (no a lot more) than he did about the sensitivities of the engineer. Actually, he didn't give a s**t what the engineer thought.
Though Off The Topic, Have You Ever Typed " Telex " Key Board ?
That Was Indespensable Pre-Historic Tool for ANYBODY Who Were Engaged in The Business Communicating with People World-Widely Instantaneously on The Wire Before The Real Curtain of http:// & E-Mail Era Opened.
What I Want to Say is I ReaLly Loved and Captivated by The " Touch & Feel " of The Key Board of Telex So Long - Very DEEP, PROFOUND STROKE with Real Hard & Heavy Response and Comfortable Clicking Sound - No Other Key Board of Computers Nowadays Developped in The Direction of " Thinner & Lighter " and Even No Other Typewriters Key Boards Can Match.
Probably Very First Period of Computers Key Boards Such As IBM Terminal that Appeared in The Video Clip of This Live Event and Commodore Ones Might Have Retained The Same Touch, and Even Apple II Maybe.
Of Course Those Key Boards Look Now Fossil Age Products - TOO HEAVY & TOO BULKY !
But I Still Want Any Vendor in The World Have Them Resurrect and Sell !!!!!!
I Have Never Ever Had Such " Orgasm " When I Typed Any Key of Telex Key Board with Any Developped Thin & Silent ( Real Physical Clicking Sound, NOT The Sound Out of Speakers ! ) Key Boards of Late.
I still use an IBM keyboard for both of my desktops... You just can't beat the feel - although my Lenovo Thinkpad comes close -- a lot closer than an MBP (But then its a "bit" thicker and allows for key travel).
does anyone know if the SSD is removable ? if yes I will just go for the 1Tb version and upgrade later to a 2Tb SSD when they become available from third parties.
Not likely... It's a PCI-e.... Probably wired right into the MB.
When Steve came back and ran Apple from 1999- 2010 we got the iMac, the G3 tower, the G4 tower, G5 Tower, Mac Pro, the "Pixar lamp" iMac, the switch to Intel processors, iTunes and the iTunes store, TV and movie rentals and purchases, Apple TV, a new Mac OS built from the ground up with a Unix kernel, the iPod, the iPhone, the iPad, the titanium PowerBook G4, the iBook, the MacBook Pro aluminum redesign, the Apple Cinema Display lineup with up to 30" flat panel, the iSight camera, FaceTime, iOS.
With Tim Cook in charge since 2010- 2016 we have thinner iPhones, iPads, MacBooks, the Apple Watch, and the decline and slow death of the Mac.
Really miss you Steve!
Yes, It seems to be Apple is firing on one Cylinder now.
As much as I think they should have keep the MagSafe power connector on the Pro, my major disappointments are 1. They didn't include a lightning port. If I get a lightning based headphone for the iPhone 7 I can't directly connect it to the MBP. 2. Why aren't the other machines being updated beginning with the Mac Pro. At the least they should have announced updates when they would get updated within the year (They previewed last Mac Pro refresh 6 month ahead of time). This tells me they don't have a redesign started. Would be nice to see an update to the Mac Mini soon too. Time for the world to switch to the USB-C/TB3 connector. Wish Apple would go all in on this across the product line.
Yeah I think it looks great! Only problem for me is I have a MBP that is only 6 months old. So this won't be on my shopping list. If that wasn't the case however I would get the new MBP.
I have the first retina MBP from 2012, it's in mint condition and is still blazingly fast. Apple has really changed my idea of how long a computer lasts. Even though it's 4 years old, it literally feels like brand new and faster than any other computer I use. My job assigned me a brand new Dell laptop this year and it's a dog compared to my MBP. I actually don't intend to even think about a new one for at least another 2-3 years. Although I wouldn't be surprised if Apple cuts me off with an updated OS that I can't use before that.
Yes, that's a problem... It goes beyond 'planned obsolescent' and becomes forced obsolescence. MS supports their OS's for far longer than Apple does which enables non-Apple products to have a far longer lifespan. Let's see: a $2K MBP with a 5 year life span costs $400/year. That's the cost of some smartphones and nearly the cost of a 5S.
My experience with PC's that run Windows platform, is that they don't last nearly as long, or maintain performance for as long, as a Mac. So the fact that MS supports the OS longer is irrelevant when the PC as a whole does not last as long as a Mac.
Yes, MacOS is a far better OS than Windows... But, because of the price differential it's not enough to get me to buy a Mac (Particularly a MacBook Pro) -- and the hardware is, at best, a wash.
Actually, I can buy 2 or 3 Windows machines for the price of a MacBook Pro. Or, if I want to go used, even more. And, because they are upgradeable, used Windows machines are very viable. Actually, the upgradeability and extra legacy ports make the Windows based hardware even more attractive: For example: I'm typing this on a 15", 8Gb, I7 with a 500Gb drive that cost a total of less than $200 -- so I can get 10 of them for the price of a MacBook Pro. And, I can plug in just about any peripheral I might come across (except USB-C).
Actually, as a general user (email, web, some spreadsheet & word processing), Mac's have only two main selling points for me: 1) Apple's security and infrastructure - plus the fact that they do not collect and sell my data (at least not as their main source of revenue) 2) Integration with my IPhone. +) If I were a student and carried a laptop with me, it's extreme portability would be a third reason.
I am looking forward to Apple putting out a general user (non-pro) machine that is competitive with the Windows machines. And,, actually, I am thinking that that may end up being a direct competitor to the ChromeBooks which are dirt cheap. Apple already has the infrastructure to drive their own version of the chromebook line. Could that be the next MacBook?
Yes, MacOS is a far better OS than Windows... But, because of the price differential it's not enough to get me to buy a Mac (Particularly a MacBook Pro) -- and the hardware is, at best, a wash.
Actually, I can buy 2 or 3 Windows machines for the price of a MacBook Pro. Or, if I want to go used, even more. And, because they are upgradeable, used Windows machines are very viable. Actually, the upgradeability and extra legacy ports make the Windows based hardware even more attractive: For example: I'm typing this on a 15", 8Gb, I7 with a 500Gb drive that cost a total of less than $200 -- so I can get 10 of them for the price of a MacBook Pro. And, I can plug in just about any peripheral I might come across (except USB-C).
Actually, as a general user (email, web, some spreadsheet & word processing), Mac's have only two main selling points for me: 1) Apple's security and infrastructure - plus the fact that they do not collect and sell my data (at least not as their main source of revenue) 2) Integration with my IPhone. +) If I were a student and carried a laptop with me, it's extreme portability would be a third reason.
I am looking forward to Apple putting out a general user (non-pro) machine that is competitive with the Windows machines. And,, actually, I am thinking that that may end up being a direct competitor to the ChromeBooks which are dirt cheap. Apple already has the infrastructure to drive their own version of the chromebook line. Could that be the next MacBook?
I understand what you are saying, and agree (to a degree) with some of your points. Someone can certainly purchase (new) maybe a couple of Windows PC's over the lifetime of a Mac for about the same price (but not equivalent specs including things like weight, size, SSD performance, RAM performance, and of course OS optimization). I just bought my son a PC back in the spring, and I can tell you that to get reasonable performing H/W (new), it is costing a good $750+ (Canadian), and it is not on par with a Mac at that price (but quite usable). It also requires FW software, getting a version of Office if such apps are required (being a student he is mostly online with Google Docs and similar from school), etc. Just to note - I got him a more economical model, on-sale for $550, but it was not even an "i3" CPU (similar).
It is not nearly as nice to use as a Mac (bigger, heavier, have to remove all of the bloatware), but certainly OK for him as a student. I wasn't going to buy him a Mac due to the costs and he is not old/mature enough to take care of it or appreciate it.
I don't believe that Apple has any interest in competing in even the "mid market", let alone the lower end with Chromebooks. They possibly could in the mid market ($600-700 USD) with an Ax series CPU, but given the compatibility issue with 3rd party s/w, it is not clear that they would go this route. It has a lot of possible benefits to expand footprint with margin, but that whole x86 compatibility really complicates the go-to-market.
I do find the pricing on the new MBP's to be "high", and that isn't saying it from a personal perspective ("it is more than I want to pay, so I don't like it"). I am looking at it from a business perspective. Is that high level of pricing (and it can get really bad with a high USD compared to other currencies) going to overall shrink the Mac total market? Is going higher end pricing, and losing some share, Apple's intention? Sure seems to be, and of course we can only tell in time if it was a good strategy.
Comments
Those that against technology advancing because it's different or because the entire world will take some time to catch up, I refer to as being on the clotting-edge of technology.
Why can't you connect it and forget it to today? After I made my MBP purchase I want to Monoprice and ordered many extra cables and one (f)USB-Ato-(m)USB-C adapter. The cables were 3x USB-A-to-USB-C at 6" in length so I could test how long my work vehicle will take to charge my new MBP whilst driving from one to three of the 3 12V ports, since they said that all 4 TB ports can be used for charging. This is an amazing step for everyone, not just Mac users. The only downside is the automotive industry is probably 5 years behind on adopting USB-C… unless Apple has something to say about. Perhaps Tesla, too.
As for cameras, do people still buy new cameras that don't have WiFi or offload picture so much that the occasional use of an external SD card is an extreme idea?
If this doesn't appeal to you because the rest of the industry still has to wait for Apple to take the first step, then just stick with whatever Mac you have or buy the 2015 model which will cover you for several years to come. By then, the rest shouldn't be a problem.
And, again, why do your needs mean that more common storage capacity needs be excluded from the line up? You know this would drive the starting price even more, right? And not just to the stated prices for those higher configurations, but even higher since they're not losing many, many sales on the lower-end which now need to have prices adjusted to maintain profit margins for that product category.
Like all things it depends. CPU wise intel simply hasn't done much for CPU performance lately.
if yes I will just go for the 1Tb version and upgrade later to a 2Tb SSD when they become available from third parties.
... Steve cared about the customer a little more (no a lot more) than he did about the sensitivities of the engineer. Actually, he didn't give a s**t what the engineer thought.
As much as I think they should have keep the MagSafe power connector on the Pro, my major disappointments are 1. They didn't include a lightning port. If I get a lightning based headphone for the iPhone 7 I can't directly connect it to the MBP. 2. Why aren't the other machines being updated beginning with the Mac Pro. At the least they should have announced updates when they would get updated within the year (They previewed last Mac Pro refresh 6 month ahead of time). This tells me they don't have a redesign started. Would be nice to see an update to the Mac Mini soon too. Time for the world to switch to the USB-C/TB3 connector. Wish Apple would go all in on this across the product line.
But, because of the price differential it's not enough to get me to buy a Mac (Particularly a MacBook Pro) -- and the hardware is, at best, a wash.
Actually, I can buy 2 or 3 Windows machines for the price of a MacBook Pro. Or, if I want to go used, even more. And, because they are upgradeable, used Windows machines are very viable. Actually, the upgradeability and extra legacy ports make the Windows based hardware even more attractive: For example: I'm typing this on a 15", 8Gb, I7 with a 500Gb drive that cost a total of less than $200 -- so I can get 10 of them for the price of a MacBook Pro. And, I can plug in just about any peripheral I might come across (except USB-C).
Actually, as a general user (email, web, some spreadsheet & word processing), Mac's have only two main selling points for me:
1) Apple's security and infrastructure - plus the fact that they do not collect and sell my data (at least not as their main source of revenue)
2) Integration with my IPhone.
+) If I were a student and carried a laptop with me, it's extreme portability would be a third reason.
I am looking forward to Apple putting out a general user (non-pro) machine that is competitive with the Windows machines. And,, actually, I am thinking that that may end up being a direct competitor to the ChromeBooks which are dirt cheap. Apple already has the infrastructure to drive their own version of the chromebook line. Could that be the next MacBook?
It is not nearly as nice to use as a Mac (bigger, heavier, have to remove all of the bloatware), but certainly OK for him as a student. I wasn't going to buy him a Mac due to the costs and he is not old/mature enough to take care of it or appreciate it.
I don't believe that Apple has any interest in competing in even the "mid market", let alone the lower end with Chromebooks. They possibly could in the mid market ($600-700 USD) with an Ax series CPU, but given the compatibility issue with 3rd party s/w, it is not clear that they would go this route. It has a lot of possible benefits to expand footprint with margin, but that whole x86 compatibility really complicates the go-to-market.
I do find the pricing on the new MBP's to be "high", and that isn't saying it from a personal perspective ("it is more than I want to pay, so I don't like it"). I am looking at it from a business perspective. Is that high level of pricing (and it can get really bad with a high USD compared to other currencies) going to overall shrink the Mac total market? Is going higher end pricing, and losing some share, Apple's intention? Sure seems to be, and of course we can only tell in time if it was a good strategy.
color me underwhelmed.
how about making a real 'pro' model, as thick as the original, with one week battery life?