Apple announces thinner MacBook Pro with Touch Bar, Touch ID, USB-C ports starting at $1799

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  • Reply 241 of 250
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,640member
    spheric said:
    The question was what cannot be done with the new connectors and dongles, not what it would cost you. 

    I knew what adapters I'd need going in and had budgeted accordingly for six months. The cost is minor compared to the whole investment (and it's not $264 either, because nobody needs ALL of the ports - I'd venture hardly anybody uses more than a combination of four, ever). 
    No. The question was that Apple chose a 'hard transition' when it wasn't necessary. With two USB-C ports plus the habitual ports, Apple could have saved users a lot of hassle and extra cost (on an already very overpriced and underspecced line). The dongles (and you'd better get them from Apple whenever possible  because they 'should' offer more guarantees of headache free operation) are a royal and completely unnecessary pain. More stuff to carry around, misplace, drop etc. The dongles aren't even decent quality. And why? Because someone at Apple (Mr. I've) has techo anorexia and doesn't understand that thinness shouldn't come at any price. These machines would have been so much better with a little more port and battery space.

    As for knowing which dongles you'd need - six months before release - we'll you clearly know what's cooking at Apple well before the rest of us. Even so, you should never have had to factor anything in to the price: Apple should have included them in the box as a gesture for the pain that their unnecessary decision had caused its users but far from doing that, they took another penny pinching move and charged extra for the power brick extension cord. That pretty much sums up Apple at this point in time and that's why everywhere you look you see people complaining. Remind me. How much do these Macs cost? What is the stock SSD capacity? If you buy these machines, Apple will never change. Please try to understand this
    edited November 2016
  • Reply 242 of 250
    WHat a "LAME" design. Whomever designed this should be fired. 1- They removed the brilliant Mag-Safe, for a much worst option 2- If it supposed to be Pro why it is limited to 16gb ram? 3- You cannot connect your own iPhone-iPad…. really? 4- You need gazillion adaptors (HDMI, USB, Thunderbolt 2…) 5- Overpriced and underperform. A strip is not worth $500 extra... Extremely tired of APPLE DESIGN to sacrifice thinness over functionality…
  • Reply 243 of 250
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,640member
    John Gruber seems to be trying to balance things out a bit on his site but I believe he is missing the point.

    He has regurgitated an article he wrote on the 30-pin dock connector to lightning port transition change. That change was just that, a change. iDevices only ever had one digital port, not a collection of different ports. The change was necessary for various reasons and it wasn't technically a great idea to try and squeeze both ports onto a device to try and maintain backwards compatibility. In the grand scheme of things, it had to happen and the only sensible way to do it was just to drop the old port. Of course, as the instigator of the change, Apple had to make sure it was as seamless as possible for the user.

    When he later tries to touch the subject of the USB-C transition change by commenting on an article by Marco Arment, he admits that if Apple had added USB-C to the MBP, but alongside existing ports, it would have been 'sensible' and the resulting change would have been 'at least a little bit slower.'

    Only then does he say 'but this is not how Apple thinks about transitions'. That could be seen as stating the obvious but actually it isn't. Apple has a history of actually contradicting itself on all manner of things. Both in hardware and software. Apple can change just like everybody else can change and has changed on occasion.

    I understand a 'transition' to be an intentional but gradual change from one situation to another. That's my own personal take on the word but I think many people would agree with that. In the case of the new MacBook Pros I prefer 'change' (or 'hard transition' if you're in Brexit land) as it doesn't have as much connection with a gradual process. 'Change' is more open perhaps. 'Climate Change' is one (but I don't think that's intentional.)

    The point is that an abrupt change to USB-C only really satisfies Apple (or a user buying a computer for this first time). Apple's use of the term legacy is somewhat shallow. Most, if not all routers come with ethernet. HDMI will be here for a while yet. USB devices that don't have USB-C will still be made for a long while etc. They may be 'legacy ports' in terms of the new MBP but Apple is still making machines with these ports and they serve a primary function on those machines.

    So, with this change, Apple is satisfying itself when it could be satisfying its users in general instead. What does it matter to anybody if the move to USB-C is 'at least a little bit slower'? It shouldn't bother Apple. It shouldn't bother anyone. They've been using those ports for years - and still make products with them. It's easy for them to get rid of them. They get to save a few pennies and get cleaner lines. too. They can make things even thinner (although how thin things are from now on is just not interesting to anyone except Mr. Ive it seems). The future is USB-C for sure, but no one needs to rush there. No one wants a bag of dongles. Users should be able to transition at their own pace. Putting two USB-C ports alongside a spread of regular ports would have been a better option. They would have been making the 'future' 'present' and eliminating the headaches of dongles.

    We are already seeing reports of USB-C chipsets possibly causing incompatibilities. We know the ports are soldered directly onto the mother board and any port damage will probably lead to a very expensive repair. I hope they are soldered in a way as to make them very resistant to stress. We know that some cheap or poorly designed cables/accessories can cause severe damage to the machines they connect to. We suspect some adapters might be having issues. No doubt there are firmware updates coming.

    It's time for Apple to re-think how it does transitions although this one might just be the last one we see for some time. Even Apple has to learn some lessons. The current backlash is not only due to USB-C. There are other issues bugging people and they all seem to have converged on the release of this new line. I hope Tim Cook will be able to a good way out of the mess if sales slump due to these issues.



    edited November 2016
  • Reply 244 of 250
    dysamoria said:
    No other Mac updates, as already stated, sucks. Another year to wait for an actual studio machine?
    Thankfully, my OLD iMac still functions properly (after a few unexplained scares recently which initially led me to think I'd lost my computer). However, I have an office associate who wants to buy a new iMac and has been waiting for some time to get it.

    I wonder if there are any rumors or hints of rumors of when new iMacs will be making their way to us...
  • Reply 245 of 250
    nhtnht Posts: 4,429member
    avon b7 said:

    I hope Tim Cook will be able to a good way out of the mess if sales slump due to these issues.

    Thank you for your tireless concern trolling over an issue that is solved by a $65 USB-C hub that is a half inch thick and 4 inches long.

    Never mind that many self proclaimed pros are running around with 2009 Mac Pros and 2011 MBP which indicates that it IS far better for users to have 4 USB-C ports vs 2 USB-C and 2 USB-A as the adoption rate of USB-C already hit its knee now that many android phones have replaced micro and mini USB with USB-C and Apple has signaled to the legions of Apple aftermarket equipment makers that USB-C isn't just a MacBook thing but the future for a very lucrative demographic that buys Apple.  Not to mention that these ports are on every 2016 ultra book by dell, Lenovo, etc.

    So any pain is short lived and easily solved.

    But yes, Apple is doomed anyway.  Is it beleaguered again yet?
    Solispheric
  • Reply 246 of 250
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,640member
    nht said:
    avon b7 said:

    I hope Tim Cook will be able to a good way out of the mess if sales slump due to these issues.

    Thank you for your tireless concern trolling over an issue that is solved by a $65 USB-C hub that is a half inch thick and 4 inches long.

    Never mind that many self proclaimed pros are running around with 2009 Mac Pros and 2011 MBP which indicates that it IS far better for users to have 4 USB-C ports vs 2 USB-C and 2 USB-A as the adoption rate of USB-C already hit its knee now that many android phones have replaced micro and mini USB with USB-C and Apple has signaled to the legions of Apple aftermarket equipment makers that USB-C isn't just a MacBook thing but the future for a very lucrative demographic that buys Apple.  Not to mention that these ports are on every 2016 ultra book by dell, Lenovo, etc.

    So any pain is short lived and easily solved.

    But yes, Apple is doomed anyway.  Is it beleaguered again yet?
    The wholesale switch to USB-C is just one of many issues. It is the collective sum of these issues that is at the root of many complaints about this line.
    mac_128
  • Reply 247 of 250
    sphericspheric Posts: 1,739member
    The USB-C is the Mac equivalent of Lightning. It is FAR more flexible than everything that came before, precisely because it moves all the complexity outside of the machine. These ports can be anything - they just need to have the appropriate interface converter attached and software written to support it. 

    That is indeed a symptom of what Apple is becoming - more modular, yet more flexible, and at the same time, sleeker and simpler. 
  • Reply 248 of 250
    Tim COok likes Dongles! :wink: 
  • Reply 249 of 250
    flaneurflaneur Posts: 4,509member
    flaneur said:
    Not stubborn and stupid, but shall we say unsympathetic to engineering and production challenges. Each compromise wth past standards in the machine not only represents thousands of hours of engineering time, millions of dollars of resources as the compromises are prototyped back and forth, but most important they introduce fatal distractions and dispiriting rats nests of pointless finessing over obsolescences that should just be cut and done with. You have to think like Jobs did. Just buy an adapter.
    "This is s**t.  FIX IT!"
    ... Steve cared about the customer a little more (no a lot more) than he did about the sensitivities of the engineer.  Actually, he didn't give a s**t what the engineer thought.
    For going forward, I agree. But not for going backward. See the difference?

    https://www.google.com/search?q=father+ted+this+one+is+far+away&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari
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