Apple announces thinner MacBook Pro with Touch Bar, Touch ID, USB-C ports starting at $1799

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  • Reply 101 of 250
    sog35 said:
    The Surface Studio is so much more exciting then this thinner Mac book.

    boring.
    stale.
    Tim Cook.
    Its also more overpriced…
  • Reply 102 of 250
    flaneurflaneur Posts: 4,509member
    hucom2000 said:
    I'm a mac user for - gosh - 22 years. I was prepared to be "underwhelmed", instead I find myself utterly disappointed.

    Not because the MacBook Pro isn't a great evolutionary machine (I already ordered one), but because it's the ONLY announcement. Seriously, Apple? SERIOUSLY? After all this time of not giving your former core business any loving, THIS is it??

    What happened to making the best products? Make it outstanding, or don't make it? Not updating products for year just so obviously lacks dedication and determination to be the best. They just go where the money is. That's not a good strategy. They should take care of their ecosystem, keep niche products alive.

    And what pisses me off most of all, is that Apple could EASILY AFFORD to keep their "hobby products" (is that what the Mac is these days?) current. It wouldn't hurt them! They could do it. So I really don't understand it. I'm so f**** frustrated with them. *Sorry*
    I mostly agree -- but I'm not in the market for a MB.  I want a an iMac with the ability to attach an  iPad Pro for Touch and Pencil UI.

    Apparently, we'll have to wait for new iMacs and iPad Pros.

    While it was interesting, IMO, there wasn't enough meat to justify an eyvent!

    As an AAPL share-holder, I am disappointed!

    I'm disappointed that you don't see the revolutionary import of the touch strip. You and almost everybody here, especially the loudmouth calling for management change.

    Maybe because it's just a little strip of touch sensitivity with picture overlays. But think a minute. This is what a pointer interface was always meant to be, just like a touchscreen with change-y icons was always the way to dial a phone call or browse the internet.

    Developing these new laptops are the reason that you all have had to wait for three years. There are only so many engineers at Apple, so they can't be wasting time updating the old form factors when they have an entirely new Mac coming out with a brand new user interface. 

    People who use these machines in their work are going to see their working speeds double, at least, after they get into the new interface. And when developers have time to exploit them.

    Everybody is too focused on particulars, and hardly anybody is taking the long view. We just saw a leap in evolution of the Mac, and nobody seems to get it. It's programmable touch input again, amplified by crowd-sourced developer software, just like the iPhone.

    Edit: ericthehalfbee gets it, in post #1. This is a way to get touch directly into the screen, without touching the screen.

    edited October 2016 tmaypscooter63ration alwatto_cobra
  • Reply 103 of 250
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,748member
    longpath said:
    Did they explain why the 2.9GHz 13" MacBookPro with Touch Bar is only available with a 250GB SSD? Even the 2.0GHz 13" MBP without the Touch Bar is available up to 1TB. I didn't see anything in the keynote that explained this apparent oversight, and I hope it is just a temporary situation. 

    I thought it so odd, I even tried tweeting Tim Cook about it: https://twitter.com/darkpath0010/status/791733232131796992
    How the fuck do you get 250GB[sic] as the maximum? I see 1TB as the max with a mid-level option of 512GB.

    pscooter63
  • Reply 104 of 250
    VSzulc said:
    Dumb, dumb, dumb...

    Now don't get me wrong, it's it all bad. The new Touch Bar is a great idea (though with a stupid name, too easy to confuse with a touchpad!) Love the implementation and the possibilities it brings.

    Also great to get new CPUs in the MacBook Pro who have fallen way behind. The storage speeds seem amazing.

    But there is so much they messed up with this new MacBook.

    1: The focus is wrong.
    It's what... 15% thinner and 20% ligther? WHO CARES?!? It's not a MacBook Air, and we've long gotten past the point of thin enough and light enough.

    This is supposed to be a machine for professionals, and I don't know any MBP owner who wouldn't choose longer battery life or something else useful, rather than shave off 2mm of height or 15% weight of a 3 pound laptop.

    2: Only 2 ports.
    Again, keep in mind that this is supposed to be a machine for professionals. Who on earth approved that the bottom tier model only has 2, that's right: T W O USB ports?!? And these ports are the only one on the machine! Want to hook up your MBP to the Ethernet while it's charging and connected to your phone? Tough, you can't! Not unless you upgrade to a more expensive model.

    3: Too few ports.
    The bigger models have 4 USB C ports, which is an improvement, but still woefully lacking. What was the point of removing all the old ports from the MBP? Making it a mm or two thinner? As I said: Dumb!

    Apple took a machine for professionals, axed all the ports that professional users actually use, and replaced them with only 4. And to make it even worse, they chose a replacement port that 95% of people don't use or have.

    So how am I supposed to hook the new MBP up to an Ethernet cable? Or a monitor? Or get sound in and out? 

    Apples vision of the future is one where people carry around laptop that's 15% lighter. And an extra pound or two of adapters and USB C cables... Dumb! 
    My new Apple Slogan: No dongle, no play. Apple... the Dongle Company.

    Their obsession with thinness over usefulness makes this no more than a glorified MacBook Air. The fact that they hawked it as a MacBook Air 13inch replacement speaks loads as to that end. I also found it ironic that they didn't include DVI on their list but included VGA, because in the real world, it's still all VGA, just like it's the headphone jack and USB sticks. Add a couple of hundred bucks in dongles to any price point on these new machines, and that's without counting the fact that you can't upgrade ANYTHING. What you bought is what you keep forever. 16GB Max and 512GB forever if you bought the base config. It's not an iPad, it's a Professional laptop.

    As I'm typing this on a Retina MBP, let's see what I'm not getting that I have in my pro machine: two USB3, two DisplayPort/Lightning 2 ports, MagSafe (saved it a million times), an HDMI port, an SD card slot. Instead I get to buy dongles to get all that. I need a dongle to use my current dongles. Even the new iPhone 7 comes with a standard USB cable. As you said, it's dumb.

    Just pondering...
    baconstangBernie de Kok
  • Reply 105 of 250
    I love the touch bar. The demos really highlighted its potential. What's more important to me though is when it will be released as a stand-alone product. It needs to be because you cant have a next-gen iMac without it. I for one will be buying a stand-alone one as soon as its released. Assuming it isn't somehow locked down to new models only—I have a sneaky suspicion it will be.
    numenorean
  • Reply 106 of 250

    Just curious how a company that prides itself on it's integrated ecosystem has its two brand new 2016 devices, iPhone 7 and MacBook Pro that can't connect to each other without an out of box dongle or cable purchase.  

    numenoreanbaconstangBernie de Kokdysamoria
  • Reply 107 of 250
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,748member

    Just curious how a company that prides itself on it's integrated ecosystem has its two brand new 2016 devices, iPhone 7 and MacBook Pro that can't connect to each other without an out of box dongle or cable purchase.  

    You can't be serious. What solution do you propose other than never moving from USB-A?

    Next year, we'll may see Lightning-to-USB-A cables but it all depends on how quickly the rest of the industry starts to move toward USB-C now that Apple has done so—which isn't unlike when they moved to USB-A. They'd probably have to include a USB-A-to-USB-C dongle for clotting-edge users like you, but that will only last for a year or two. After that, we'll have a wonderful world of Apple devices with USB-C.
    Deelronration alwatto_cobra
  • Reply 108 of 250
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,662member
    VSzulc said:
    Dumb, dumb, dumb...

    Now don't get me wrong, it's it all bad. The new Touch Bar is a great idea (though with a stupid name, too easy to confuse with a touchpad!) Love the implementation and the possibilities it brings.

    Also great to get new CPUs in the MacBook Pro who have fallen way behind. The storage speeds seem amazing.

    But there is so much they messed up with this new MacBook.

    1: The focus is wrong.
    It's what... 15% thinner and 20% ligther? WHO CARES?!? It's not a MacBook Air, and we've long gotten past the point of thin enough and light enough.

    This is supposed to be a machine for professionals, and I don't know any MBP owner who wouldn't choose longer battery life or something else useful, rather than shave off 2mm of height or 15% weight of a 3 pound laptop.

    2: Only 2 ports.
    Again, keep in mind that this is supposed to be a machine for professionals. Who on earth approved that the bottom tier model only has 2, that's right: T W O USB ports?!? And these ports are the only one on the machine! Want to hook up your MBP to the Ethernet while it's charging and connected to your phone? Tough, you can't! Not unless you upgrade to a more expensive model.

    3: Too few ports.
    The bigger models have 4 USB C ports, which is an improvement, but still woefully lacking. What was the point of removing all the old ports from the MBP? Making it a mm or two thinner? As I said: Dumb!

    Apple took a machine for professionals, axed all the ports that professional users actually use, and replaced them with only 4. And to make it even worse, they chose a replacement port that 95% of people don't use or have.

    So how am I supposed to hook the new MBP up to an Ethernet cable? Or a monitor? Or get sound in and out? 

    Apples vision of the future is one where people carry around laptop that's 15% lighter. And an extra pound or two of adapters and USB C cables... Dumb! 
    My new Apple Slogan: No dongle, no play. Apple... the Dongle Company.

    Their obsession with thinness over usefulness makes this no more than a glorified MacBook Air. The fact that they hawked it as a MacBook Air 13inch replacement speaks loads as to that end. I also found it ironic that they didn't include DVI on their list but included VGA, because in the real world, it's still all VGA, just like it's the headphone jack and USB sticks. Add a couple of hundred bucks in dongles to any price point on these new machines, and that's without counting the fact that you can't upgrade ANYTHING. What you bought is what you keep forever. 16GB Max and 512GB forever if you bought the base config. It's not an iPad, it's a Professional laptop.

    As I'm typing this on a Retina MBP, let's see what I'm not getting that I have in my pro machine: two USB3, two DisplayPort/Lightning 2 ports, MagSafe (saved it a million times), an HDMI port, an SD card slot. Instead I get to buy dongles to get all that. I need a dongle to use my current dongles. Even the new iPhone 7 comes with a standard USB cable. As you said, it's dumb.

    Just pondering...
    The tradeoff that you get for those optional dongles;

    Simultaneously supports full native resolution on the built-in display at millions of colors and:

    • Up to two displays with 5120-by-2880 resolution at 60Hz at over a billion colors
    • Up to four displays with 4096-by-2304 resolution at 60Hz at over a billion colors

    Thunderbolt 3 digital video output

    • Native DisplayPort output over USB‑C
    • VGA, HDMI, and Thunderbolt 2 output supported using adapters (sold separately)
    Yeah, pro's are gonna hate having all of those TB 3 ports...
    longpathlondornumenoreanDeelronration alwatto_cobra
  • Reply 109 of 250
    flaneur said:
    hucom2000 said:
    I'm a mac user for - gosh - 22 years. I was prepared to be "underwhelmed", instead I find myself utterly disappointed.

    Not because the MacBook Pro isn't a great evolutionary machine (I already ordered one), but because it's the ONLY announcement. Seriously, Apple? SERIOUSLY? After all this time of not giving your former core business any loving, THIS is it??

    What happened to making the best products? Make it outstanding, or don't make it? Not updating products for year just so obviously lacks dedication and determination to be the best. They just go where the money is. That's not a good strategy. They should take care of their ecosystem, keep niche products alive.

    And what pisses me off most of all, is that Apple could EASILY AFFORD to keep their "hobby products" (is that what the Mac is these days?) current. It wouldn't hurt them! They could do it. So I really don't understand it. I'm so f**** frustrated with them. *Sorry*
    I mostly agree -- but I'm not in the market for a MB.  I want a an iMac with the ability to attach an  iPad Pro for Touch and Pencil UI.

    Apparently, we'll have to wait for new iMacs and iPad Pros.

    While it was interesting, IMO, there wasn't enough meat to justify an eyvent!

    As an AAPL share-holder, I am disappointed!

    I'm disappointed that you don't see the revolutionary import of the touch strip. You and almost everybody here, especially the loudmouth calling for management change.

    Maybe because it's just a little strip of touch sensitivity with picture overlays. But think a minute. This is what a pointer interface was always meant to be, just like a touchscreen with change-y icons was always the way to dial a phone call or browse the internet.

    Developing these new laptops are the reason that you all have had to wait for three years. There are only so many engineers at Apple, so they can't be wasting time updating the old form factors when the have an entirely new Mac coming out with a brand new user interface. 

    People who use these machines in their work are going to see their working speeds double, at least, after they get into the new interface. And when developers have time to exploit them.

    Everybody is too focused on particulars, and hardly anybody is taking the long view. We just saw a leap in evolution of the Mac, and nobody seems to get it. It's programmable touch input again, amplified by crowd-sourced developer software, just like the iPhone.

    Maybe you're right -- I don't use a laptop, so I found it interesting, but not for me!

    IDK, if they can economically bring the touch strip to the external kbs or trackpads that are used with iMacs, Mac Minis and Mac Pros.

    Does that make these Mac users second-class citizens?

    edited October 2016 SpamSandwich
  • Reply 110 of 250
    Soli said:

    Just curious how a company that prides itself on it's integrated ecosystem has its two brand new 2016 devices, iPhone 7 and MacBook Pro that can't connect to each other without an out of box dongle or cable purchase.  

    You can't be serious. What solution do you propose other than never moving from USB-A?

    Next year, we'll may see Lightning-to-USB-A cables but it all depends on how quickly the rest of the industry starts to move toward USB-C now that Apple has done so—which isn't unlike when they moved to USB-A. They'd probably have to include a USB-A-to-USB-C dongle for clotting-edge users like you, but that will only last for a year or two. After that, we'll have a wonderful world of Apple devices with USB-C.

    How about shipping with a lightning to USB-A and a lightning to USB-C cable. It's pretty embarrassing when the phone you released less than two months ago can't fit your computer you just released.  

    baconstanglenny491longpathdysamoria
  • Reply 111 of 250
    sog35 said:
    The Surface Studio is so much more exciting then this thinner Mac book.

    boring.
    stale.
    Tim Cook.
    Uh, where are the thunderbolt ports in the Surface studio? For moving massive quantities of video and other data, there is no equivalent to thunderbolt. 

    I can attach my iPad Pro to the MacBook Pro with duet display and the iPad will still function as touch screen with the entire setup being completely portable. And I wouldn't have to use that dog of an OS known as Windows. 

    The iPad has a wealth of software and far more is available for iOS than Windows. The MacBook Pro is well built and portable, unlike the studio. And the cost of the whole setup is still less than the studio which is not portable, doesn't include thunderbolt and with an annoying and aggravating OS. 

    4199 for a studio with a core i7 and touch screen running Windows 10. These machines aren't going to sell well.
    tmaypscooter63Deelronbaconstangration alwatto_cobra
  • Reply 112 of 250
    Rayz2016 said:
    hucom2000 said:
    I'm a mac user for - gosh - 22 years. I was prepared to be "underwhelmed", instead I find myself utterly disappointed.

    Not because the MacBook Pro isn't a great evolutionary machine (I already ordered one), but because it's the ONLY announcement. 
    ...
    Sans the ranting, I mostly agree. This could have been released without an event and would have saved us endless pages of Sog's cerebral flatulence. 

    Having said that, it's time to melt a credit card :-D
    I know, I'm sorry about the ranting. I kinda lost it there...

    But you do have to wonder, how much it would actually cost, to keep these products current? I'm not talking about "innovation" or complete re-designs. I'm just talking about updating the components. Apple used to do this "silently" on a regular basis (sometimes several times a year, for those of us who remember the PowerPC times). No big fuss, but they always kept their system up-to-date with the latest processors and graphics, added more RAM, etc. And that was during a financially much more trying time (!). Now that they have the resources, they just stop caring? WT... No, I won't rant again. 


    baconstangdysamoria
  • Reply 113 of 250
    wigginwiggin Posts: 2,265member
    Practically speaking, what are folks thinking the real-world speed increases are going to be compared to the 2015 models? Apple hyped some pretty hefty increases, but I doubt that's what we'll actually see. I'm sure there will be benchmarks soon enough, but curious what expectations are.
  • Reply 114 of 250
    flaneurflaneur Posts: 4,509member
    VSzulc said:
    Dumb, dumb, dumb...

    Now don't get me wrong, it's it all bad. The new Touch Bar is a great idea (though with a stupid name, too easy to confuse with a touchpad!) Love the implementation and the possibilities it brings.

    Also great to get new CPUs in the MacBook Pro who have fallen way behind. The storage speeds seem amazing.

    But there is so much they messed up with this new MacBook.

    1: The focus is wrong.
    It's what... 15% thinner and 20% ligther? WHO CARES?!? It's not a MacBook Air, and we've long gotten past the point of thin enough and light enough.

    This is supposed to be a machine for professionals, and I don't know any MBP owner who wouldn't choose longer battery life or something else useful, rather than shave off 2mm of height or 15% weight of a 3 pound laptop.

    2: Only 2 ports.
    Again, keep in mind that this is supposed to be a machine for professionals. Who on earth approved that the bottom tier model only has 2, that's right: T W O USB ports?!? And these ports are the only one on the machine! Want to hook up your MBP to the Ethernet while it's charging and connected to your phone? Tough, you can't! Not unless you upgrade to a more expensive model.

    3: Too few ports.
    The bigger models have 4 USB C ports, which is an improvement, but still woefully lacking. What was the point of removing all the old ports from the MBP? Making it a mm or two thinner? As I said: Dumb!

    Apple took a machine for professionals, axed all the ports that professional users actually use, and replaced them with only 4. And to make it even worse, they chose a replacement port that 95% of people don't use or have.

    So how am I supposed to hook the new MBP up to an Ethernet cable? Or a monitor? Or get sound in and out? 

    Apples vision of the future is one where people carry around laptop that's 15% lighter. And an extra pound or two of adapters and USB C cables... Dumb! 
    My new Apple Slogan: No dongle, no play. Apple... the Dongle Company.

    Their obsession with thinness over usefulness makes this no more than a glorified MacBook Air. The fact that they hawked it as a MacBook Air 13inch replacement speaks loads as to that end. I also found it ironic that they didn't include DVI on their list but included VGA, because in the real world, it's still all VGA, just like it's the headphone jack and USB sticks. Add a couple of hundred bucks in dongles to any price point on these new machines, and that's without counting the fact that you can't upgrade ANYTHING. What you bought is what you keep forever. 16GB Max and 512GB forever if you bought the base config. It's not an iPad, it's a Professional laptop.

    As I'm typing this on a Retina MBP, let's see what I'm not getting that I have in my pro machine: two USB3, two DisplayPort/Lightning 2 ports, MagSafe (saved it a million times), an HDMI port, an SD card slot. Instead I get to buy dongles to get all that. I need a dongle to use my current dongles. Even the new iPhone 7 comes with a standard USB cable. As you said, it's dumb.

    Just pondering...
    What is it with you guys and your "dongles"? First look at the name. It has sexual connotations. We used to call them by what they are, adapters, not by this infantile term of contempt, "dongles."

    If you're into wiring at all, if you're into hooking up, you grow to love the brilliance of off-loading the I/O work to adapters, while at the same time improving the integrity and portability of the main machine, instrument or tool.

    This is the way the instrument gets more durable and usable, and nobody appreciates this like the engineers at Apple. This means that we benefit by the improved usability by carrying around a more integral, simple and beautiful instrument, and then we adapt, we be adult enough to bring along the brilliant little adapters that we need. Big deal. Be a professional. Be a Buddhist about it. Enjoy making your connections. It has its own eroticism if you think about it.
    edited October 2016 tmaynumenoreanspheric
  • Reply 115 of 250
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,748member
    Soli said:

    Just curious how a company that prides itself on it's integrated ecosystem has its two brand new 2016 devices, iPhone 7 and MacBook Pro that can't connect to each other without an out of box dongle or cable purchase.  

    You can't be serious. What solution do you propose other than never moving from USB-A?

    Next year, we'll may see Lightning-to-USB-A cables but it all depends on how quickly the rest of the industry starts to move toward USB-C now that Apple has done so—which isn't unlike when they moved to USB-A. They'd probably have to include a USB-A-to-USB-C dongle for clotting-edge users like you, but that will only last for a year or two. After that, we'll have a wonderful world of Apple devices with USB-C.

    How about shipping with a lightning to USB-A and a lightning to USB-C cable. It's pretty embarrassing when the phone you released less than two months ago can't fit your computer you just released.  

    You want every single iPhone sold to include two cables just for the latest MacBooks, a comparatively low volume seller? That seems wasteful to me. I just spent $3k on a new MBP so I'm OK with spending a few dollars more on a USB-A-to-USB-C adapter and I'm only getting it just incase. I don't expect to use it since my iPhone doesn't get plugged into my Mac because wireless.

    Let me put this another way, if you're fine with having two full-length cables and yet only need to use one, then what's the big deal with having one full-length cable and then popping a 3" adapter on it that you don't remove?
  • Reply 116 of 250

    On the balance, as Apple's "premium" notebook offering, this thing is pretty unimpressive.

    The best part, by far, is the touch strip.  Hopefully developers are able to exploit its usefulness by integrating critical functions into easy-to-use gestures and buttons.  However, for people like me, who use my notebook in clamshell mode 90% of the time, the touch strip is useless (unless apple releases an external keyboard with one integrated).

    The downsides, however, are numerous:

    1) One-generation old processors, in a BRAND NEW model computer;

    2) HDD storage still heinously overpriced (high end Samsung 1TB SSDs can be had for $300, why is it a $400 UPGRADE to 1TB??);

    3) Ram still limited to 16GB (this doesn't affect me, but there are some professionals who will feel the pinch of this);

    4) All USB-C.  I find it shocking that, for the first time in Apple's history, if I go out and buy an iPhone 7 and a new MacBook Pro, the two are incompatible with one-another without a dongle/converter.

    At the very least, the new MacBook Pro should come with some sort of "docking strip" that plugs into a USB-C port and sports a host of legacy inputs.  But nothing like that is forthcoming.  Really, this thing should have had 3 USB-C ports, a USB 3.0 port, and potentially an HDMI-mini port.  Then, over time, phase out the USB 3.0 port and the HDMI port.

    I will probably buy a 15" model with 1TB + 460 Video Card.  But $3,300+tax is a tough pill to swallow with the above limitations.  Maybe when this is available at Adorama for $3,100 with free shipping and no sales tax I might bite.

    I guess, in short, my biggest issue isn't the fact that Apple wants to charge premium prices for this thing.  It is that the hardware is not premium-level hardware, by and large. 

    I do, however, hope that the touch strip takes off!



    wigginnumenoreanbaconstangBernie de Kokdysamoria
  • Reply 117 of 250
    AppleBumAppleBum Posts: 37unconfirmed, member
    My order for a 15" MBP has been placed! I went with the lower end model and increased the SSD to 512GB. I don't need the higher end graphics, the processor speeds weren't that different, and I saved about $200. My temperamental mid 2010 15" MBP will be going back for recycling. I'm really surprised that Apple didn't announce an adapter to replace the SD card reader that was removed in this design.
    edited October 2016 pulseimages
  • Reply 118 of 250
    Soli said:
    longpath said:
    Did they explain why the 2.9GHz 13" MacBookPro with Touch Bar is only available with a 250GB SSD? Even the 2.0GHz 13" MBP without the Touch Bar is available up to 1TB. I didn't see anything in the keynote that explained this apparent oversight, and I hope it is just a temporary situation. 

    I thought it so odd, I even tried tweeting Tim Cook about it: https://twitter.com/darkpath0010/status/791733232131796992
    How the fuck do you get 250GB[sic] as the maximum? I see 1TB as the max with a mid-level option of 512GB.

    Because when I look, there is no option at all regarding the SSD: 

    It jumps directly from Memory to Keyboard and Documentation, skipping any Storage options:
    Bernie de Kok
  • Reply 119 of 250
    eightzeroeightzero Posts: 2,310member
    We knew Touch Bar was coming, but it's still cool to see.

    This is Apples answer to those who think the actual screen should be a touchscreen (stupid idea, IMO - who wants to reach up to touch your screen and who wants fingerprints).

    Now you have a smaller touchscreen in an area that's easy to access and fingerprints won't matter. Yet you still get all the contextual buttons/controls.
    I'm hoping it finds its way into a keyboard for an iMac. The MBP really is a pro device, and I don't need it. But I really like the functionality of that Touch Bar.
    numenorean
  • Reply 120 of 250

    Looking for a pony here...

    Maybe the tech for new iMacs, Minis, Pros, iPad Pros is not ready yet?

    Maybe they were caught flat-footed by MS.

    Or maybe, just maybe:  Apple is trying to rearrange their product release schedules.

    If so, it would make sense to move some product releases to early 1917, as the Xmas quarter sales are targeted to the consumers -- not the higher-end pros and enterprise.

    That would, likely, balance their development effort and earnings over several [previously low] quarters.

    Though, it appears that all Apple has to sell for the Xmas quarter is iP7 and Apple Watch.

    Whatever...


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