Apple announces thinner MacBook Pro with Touch Bar, Touch ID, USB-C ports starting at $1799

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  • Reply 121 of 250
    flaneurflaneur Posts: 4,509member
    hucom2000 said:
    Rayz2016 said:
    hucom2000 said:
    I'm a mac user for - gosh - 22 years. I was prepared to be "underwhelmed", instead I find myself utterly disappointed.

    Not because the MacBook Pro isn't a great evolutionary machine (I already ordered one), but because it's the ONLY announcement. 
    ...
    Sans the ranting, I mostly agree. This could have been released without an event and would have saved us endless pages of Sog's cerebral flatulence. 

    Having said that, it's time to melt a credit card :-D
    I know, I'm sorry about the ranting. I kinda lost it there...

    But you do have to wonder, how much it would actually cost, to keep these products current? I'm not talking about "innovation" or complete re-designs. I'm just talking about updating the components. Apple used to do this "silently" on a regular basis (sometimes several times a year, for those of us who remember the PowerPC times). No big fuss, but they always kept their system up-to-date with the latest processors and graphics, added more RAM, etc. And that was during a financially much more trying time (!). Now that they have the resources, they just stop caring? WT... No, I won't rant again. 


    The thing to keep in mind is that Apple has personnel and space limitations more than they did before, because the nature of the engineering has changed as the machines get more refined, integrated and more complex. They don't have a second-string bench of engineers to work on updating the old form factors while they're working on the next form factor, which can easily take three years, obvious if you know anything about this aerospace level of production. 

    The key to the new smaller, lighter and far more efficient form factor we see today is — guess what? The key innovation is the IGZO (oxide) backed display, a technology that Apple has been backing with an odd $ billion or so for five years that we know about. Evidently, they're now making progress with their display partners in Asia.

    It's not about cost at all. It's about the production technology first, and the personnel an equal second. Don't feel bad, nobody else gets this, either.
    edited October 2016 pscooter63ration alwatto_cobra
  • Reply 122 of 250
    wigginwiggin Posts: 2,265member
    Soli said:

    Just curious how a company that prides itself on it's integrated ecosystem has its two brand new 2016 devices, iPhone 7 and MacBook Pro that can't connect to each other without an out of box dongle or cable purchase.  

    You can't be serious. What solution do you propose other than never moving from USB-A?

    Um, do what they did with every other MBP port migration in the past. When they moved to FW800, there was a model of MBP that had both FW800 and FW400. When they moved to Thunderbolt they had a model that had both Thunderbolt and FW800. In both of those cases, the outgoing port would easily have been considered a niche market, and yet Apple included it so that users could have time to transition their devices/peripherals to the new standard while still being able to conveniently use their old devices.

    USB Type A is easily the most prolific port standard in computer history, not niche like FW was. Literally every device most of us own and use daily is going to require an adapter. You'll either need to buy many adapters, one for each device, or be constantly swapping them. And always carry one with you in case someone hands you a thumb drive with files you need. You'll need a different cable or adapter depending if you are charging your phone/watch/table/etc from your laptop vs wall charger.

    Removing the headphone jack from the iPhone was a fairly bounded and manageable problem. The vast majority of people will only ever use one set of headphones with their iPhone. If you used 3rd party wired headphones, one $10 adapter solves 99% of the problem. A laptop needs to be able to connect to a much larger,  ore diverse, and, for some of us, constantly changing set of devices. "Get an adapter" is neither a convenient or elegant solution.

    I know you are going to disagree and probably go into a rage about how stupid and stubborn I am, but in my opinion, they should have provided a model with both Type C and Type A and then gone C-only with the next iteration (along with Kaby Lake) just like they have with the port migrations in the past.
    edited October 2016 numenoreanbaconstangavon b7
  • Reply 123 of 250
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,748member
    longpath said:
    Soli said:
    longpath said:
    Did they explain why the 2.9GHz 13" MacBookPro with Touch Bar is only available with a 250GB SSD? Even the 2.0GHz 13" MBP without the Touch Bar is available up to 1TB. I didn't see anything in the keynote that explained this apparent oversight, and I hope it is just a temporary situation. 

    I thought it so odd, I even tried tweeting Tim Cook about it: https://twitter.com/darkpath0010/status/791733232131796992
    How the fuck do you get 250GB[sic] as the maximum? I see 1TB as the max with a mid-level option of 512GB.

    Because when I look, there is no option at all regarding the SSD: 

    It jumps directly from Memory to Keyboard and Documentation, skipping any Storage options:
    [image]
    Unless there is a problem with their website—which I think is doubtful—then you didn't click the link I supplied. Here's a screen of what I see. I'm guessing you choose the entry-level MacBook Pro with Touch Bar instead of choosing the other one which allows you to confugure the same options as the other, plus the storage capacity.


    edited October 2016
  • Reply 124 of 250
    bigpicsbigpics Posts: 1,364member
    tommychan said:
    Question : If all the USB ports can be a power connector can I speed up the charging by plugging in multiple chargers?

    Well... I still prefer magsafe more
    Might be an excellent way to make the Note explosions look small scale.  

    Or Apple might have (and likely has) engineered the max amount of power the battery can receive at a given moment.   
    baconstang
  • Reply 125 of 250
    bigpicsbigpics Posts: 1,364member
    brucemc said:
    We knew Touch Bar was coming, but it's still cool to see.

    This is Apples answer to those who think the actual screen should be a touchscreen (stupid idea, IMO - who wants to reach up to touch your screen and who wants fingerprints).

    Now you have a smaller touchscreen in an area that's easy to access and fingerprints won't matter. Yet you still get all the contextual buttons/controls.
    Very good observation.  While a touch screen computer does of course have its uses for some niches, this seems to be a much better solution for the masses.
    Well, for the "masses" with $1800 and up burning a hole in their pockets at least....
    edited October 2016 80s_Apple_Guybaconstangdysamoria
  • Reply 126 of 250
    sflagelsflagel Posts: 588member
    Does anyone understand why the Touch Bar is not twice the size? 
    80s_Apple_Guynumenoreandysamoria
  • Reply 127 of 250
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,748member
    So many low-cost USB-C options. They even have a USB-C-to-SATA connector for connecting an external drive without needing any A/C power. 

    edited October 2016 pscooter63ration alwatto_cobradysamoria
  • Reply 128 of 250
    flaneurflaneur Posts: 4,509member

    On the balance, as Apple's "premium" notebook offering, this thing is pretty unimpressive.

    The best part, by far, is the touch strip.  Hopefully developers are able to exploit its usefulness by integrating critical functions into easy-to-use gestures and buttons.  However, for people like me, who use my notebook in clamshell mode 90% of the time, the touch strip is useless (unless apple releases an external keyboard with one integrated).

    The downsides, however, are numerous:

    1) One-generation old processors, in a BRAND NEW model computer;

    2) HDD storage still heinously overpriced (high end Samsung 1TB SSDs can be had for $300, why is it a $400 UPGRADE to 1TB??);

    3) Ram still limited to 16GB (this doesn't affect me, but there are some professionals who will feel the pinch of this);

    4) All USB-C.  I find it shocking that, for the first time in Apple's history, if I go out and buy an iPhone 7 and a new MacBook Pro, the two are incompatible with one-another without a dongle/converter.

    At the very least, the new MacBook Pro should come with some sort of "docking strip" that plugs into a USB-C port and sports a host of legacy inputs.  But nothing like that is forthcoming.  Really, this thing should have had 3 USB-C ports, a USB 3.0 port, and potentially an HDMI-mini port.  Then, over time, phase out the USB 3.0 port and the HDMI port.

    I will probably buy a 15" model with 1TB + 460 Video Card.  But $3,300+tax is a tough pill to swallow with the above limitations.  Maybe when this is available at Adorama for $3,100 with free shipping and no sales tax I might bite.

    I guess, in short, my biggest issue isn't the fact that Apple wants to charge premium prices for this thing.  It is that the hardware is not premium-level hardware, by and large. 

    I do, however, hope that the touch strip takes off!



    The current generation processors are not availble in the quantities Apple needs, otherwise you'd get them. But now that the form factor has been updated, the processors will be integrated in as they become available.

    You're carping about memory price. A $100 surcharge over Samsung's retail seems low to me. How do you know if Samsung or whoever isn't overcharging Apple due to scarcity, for example? Do you think memory grows on trees?
    edited October 2016 ration alwatto_cobra
  • Reply 129 of 250
    sog35 said:
    cpsro said:
    Mac mini update? Mac Pro update?
    <crickets>
    Not enough profits and margin to justify Tim Cook to update.

    He'd rather sell you $2000 laptops that make much better profit margins.

    This is Tim Cook's Apple.
    Always trying to maximize margins at the expense of the customer
    Well, that should be good for the profits and stock price. 
    ration alspheric
  • Reply 130 of 250
    brucemcbrucemc Posts: 1,527member
    Will have to watch the keynote tonight to get a better flavour.  Definitely sounds like the Touch Bar and Touch ID will be great additions to the MBP and provide a very worthwhile update.  I do get the concern over the port situation (dropping of all legacy and only going with USB-C), but is isn't out of character for Apple to be at the cutting edge of port requirements for future (rather than past).  They could alleviate some of the complaints with "very reasonably priced" USB-C to Lightning and USB-A adapters.  In 2 years, you can see the audio being mostly wireless, and USB-C cables & thumb drives being very prevalent.

    That being said, while I am mostly positive on Apple, I have to say that I can't understand from a business or product perspective why they neglect obvious "simple updates" on their products to keep the line fresh and attractive to maximize what they can sell, especially in the two holiday quarters (Christmas and Chinese New Year).  It is OK to say "no" to a 1000 new ideas, but if you already have a product that is one of the "legs" of your business, why not provide an update once per year.
    - iMac at the very least could have used across the board spec bumps, storage options, etc.  The Mini could also get minor spec bumps without significant engineering effort.
    - Update the iPad Pro 12.9" with the bare minimum (A10 CPU or variant, True Tone display, wide colour display, cameras, etc).  This is the flagship iPad, but over a year old going into the holiday season
    - Update or kill the older iPad lines (nothing on Mini or Air 2 now going into the 3rd years)

    I don't believe Tim Cook only cares about profit - otherwise Apple would be maximizing their existing core product lines to keep them selling.  I personally think Apple might be over rotating on the concept of "only focusing on a few things" at one time (what I call management "top 3-itis")
    SpamSandwichwigginpscooter63
  • Reply 131 of 250

    • software UI to allow the iPad Pro to be used as touch input to the iMac -- including Apple Pencil
    • pro apps (FCP, Logic, Xcode, etc) that run on the iMac and the iPad
    • handoff both ways between the iMac and the iPad Pro

    That would bring all the advantages of Touch UI to the iMmac without any of the disadvantages, and allow the iPad Pro, standalone, to do pro apps.

    ...Best of both worlds? 

    AstroPad allows you to use your iPad Pro and Pencil as if it was your Mac from anywhere in your house and with little lag. Duet allows you to use your iPad Pro as a second display on your Mac using your TrackPad/Mouse/or Touch. It's as close as you're going to get for now, and they work quite well (I use them daily on my 12 inch iPad and Pencil). :)
    AstroPad looks amazing, thanks for posting that.
    numenorean
  • Reply 132 of 250
    wigginwiggin Posts: 2,265member

    On the balance, as Apple's "premium" notebook offering, this thing is pretty unimpressive.

    The best part, by far, is the touch strip.  Hopefully developers are able to exploit its usefulness by integrating critical functions into easy-to-use gestures and buttons.  However, for people like me, who use my notebook in clamshell mode 90% of the time, the touch strip is useless (unless apple releases an external keyboard with one integrated).

    The downsides, however, are numerous:

    1) One-generation old processors, in a BRAND NEW model computer;

    2) HDD storage still heinously overpriced (high end Samsung 1TB SSDs can be had for $300, why is it a $400 UPGRADE to 1TB??);

    3) Ram still limited to 16GB (this doesn't affect me, but there are some professionals who will feel the pinch of this);

    4) All USB-C.  I find it shocking that, for the first time in Apple's history, if I go out and buy an iPhone 7 and a new MacBook Pro, the two are incompatible with one-another without a dongle/converter.

    At the very least, the new MacBook Pro should come with some sort of "docking strip" that plugs into a USB-C port and sports a host of legacy inputs.  But nothing like that is forthcoming.  Really, this thing should have had 3 USB-C ports, a USB 3.0 port, and potentially an HDMI-mini port.  Then, over time, phase out the USB 3.0 port and the HDMI port.

    I will probably buy a 15" model with 1TB + 460 Video Card.  But $3,300+tax is a tough pill to swallow with the above limitations.  Maybe when this is available at Adorama for $3,100 with free shipping and no sales tax I might bite.

    I guess, in short, my biggest issue isn't the fact that Apple wants to charge premium prices for this thing.  It is that the hardware is not premium-level hardware, by and large. 

    I do, however, hope that the touch strip takes off!



    In all fairness, regarding your #1, if I understand correctly the next generation processor you were expecting (Kaby Lake) isn't actually released yet for the class of machine the MBP is in. Only the lower end Kaby Lake is now available. The class targeted for a MBP-like machine aren't expected until early next year.

    On #2, I agree the prices for SSD upgrades are a bit ridiculous, but I believe the PCI SSDs Apple uses are faster than the ATA SSDs you'd buy on Amazon. Still, $1200 for the 2 TB model is insane, especially considering the $1200 is really only getting you 1.5 TB because you give up the 500 GB that comes with the the baseline configuration.
    SolipulseimagesDeelronnumenoreanration albaconstang
  • Reply 133 of 250
    flaneur said:

    On the balance, as Apple's "premium" notebook offering, this thing is pretty unimpressive.

    The best part, by far, is the touch strip.  Hopefully developers are able to exploit its usefulness by integrating critical functions into easy-to-use gestures and buttons.  However, for people like me, who use my notebook in clamshell mode 90% of the time, the touch strip is useless (unless apple releases an external keyboard with one integrated).

    The downsides, however, are numerous:

    1) One-generation old processors, in a BRAND NEW model computer;

    2) HDD storage still heinously overpriced (high end Samsung 1TB SSDs can be had for $300, why is it a $400 UPGRADE to 1TB??);

    3) Ram still limited to 16GB (this doesn't affect me, but there are some professionals who will feel the pinch of this);

    4) All USB-C.  I find it shocking that, for the first time in Apple's history, if I go out and buy an iPhone 7 and a new MacBook Pro, the two are incompatible with one-another without a dongle/converter.

    At the very least, the new MacBook Pro should come with some sort of "docking strip" that plugs into a USB-C port and sports a host of legacy inputs.  But nothing like that is forthcoming.  Really, this thing should have had 3 USB-C ports, a USB 3.0 port, and potentially an HDMI-mini port.  Then, over time, phase out the USB 3.0 port and the HDMI port.

    I will probably buy a 15" model with 1TB + 460 Video Card.  But $3,300+tax is a tough pill to swallow with the above limitations.  Maybe when this is available at Adorama for $3,100 with free shipping and no sales tax I might bite.

    I guess, in short, my biggest issue isn't the fact that Apple wants to charge premium prices for this thing.  It is that the hardware is not premium-level hardware, by and large. 

    I do, however, hope that the touch strip takes off!



    The current generation processors are not availble in the quantities Apple needs, otherwise you'd get them. But now that the form factor has been updated, the processors will be integrated in as they become available.

    Your carping about memory price. A $100 surcharge over Samsung's retail seems low to me. How do you know if Samsung or whoever isn't overcharging Apple due to scarcity, for example? Do you think memory grows on trees?


    Because it's the "upgrade" price.  In other words, high bandwidth SSD's in the 1TB configuration are essentially a $300 part to the general public now, which means that Apple probably pays closer to $250, even with Apple's proprietary M2 interface.  The 512MB configuration probably costs apple ~$125.  So while it costs Apple ~$125 for the upgrade, they charge $400.

    This type of gouging didn't used to bother me back when I could just buy components and swap them myself.  But now that Apple uses a proprietary M2 interface, you are stuck paying the ridiculous prices.

    edited October 2016 numenorean
  • Reply 134 of 250
    A USB-A to USB-C adapter is quite inexpensive. 

    https://www.amazon.com/Anker-Adapter-Converts-Resistor-ChromeBook/dp/B01AHKYIRS/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1477602932&sr=8-6&keywords=USB+USBc

    I don't get it. People are honestly critical of the 4 TB3 ports!! I would rather rather have the functionality and bandwidth of TB3 than an old USB-A or DVI port. TB3 is more than worth having to purchase an inexpensive adapter. 

    I was actually impressed by the new machines. OLED still isn't mainstream and I like the touchbar. Discrete graphics in the higher end machine is a plus. The discrete graphics would work well with the iPad Pro using Duet and having such a set up is quite portable and would serve nearly conceivable need I would ever have. Including the ability to run Windows in VMWare. 

    I am seriously looking at picking up one of these machines. 
    numenoreantmaypscooter63ration alSoliwatto_cobradysamoria
  • Reply 135 of 250
    nolamacguynolamacguy Posts: 4,758member
    I never thought I'd say this, but having experienced Steve's wrath about ``this is sh**! fix it!'' he would have tossed this one into the can and said, ``integrate it into the keyboard with hot swappable icons with custom command combinations, preload for apps ready, etc.''
    yeah, just like how he shipped iPhone with awesome app support, right?

    look, you may have worked for apple once, but if your posting history is any indicator, you really have no idea what Jobs thought. the notion of iterative improvement still seems to elude you. it didnt elude Jobs.
    edited October 2016 tmaypscooter63watto_cobradysamoria
  • Reply 136 of 250
    flaneurflaneur Posts: 4,509member
    wiggin said:
    Soli said:

    Just curious how a company that prides itself on it's integrated ecosystem has its two brand new 2016 devices, iPhone 7 and MacBook Pro that can't connect to each other without an out of box dongle or cable purchase.  

    You can't be serious. What solution do you propose other than never moving from USB-A?

    Um, do what they did with every other MPB port migration in the past. When they moved to FW800, there was a model of MBP that had both FW800 and FW400. When they moved to Thunderbolt they had a model that had both Thunderbolt and FW800. In both of those cases, the outgoing port would easily have been considered a niche market, and yet Apple included it so that users could have time to transition their devices/peripherals to the new standard while still being able to conveniently use their old devices.

    USB Type A is easily the most prolific port standard in computer history, not niche like FW was. Literally every device most of us own and use daily is going to require an adapter. You'll either need to buy many adapters, one for each device, or be constantly swapping them. And always carry one with you in case someone hands you a thumb drive with files you need. You'll need a different cable or adapter depending if you are charging your phone/watch/table/etc from your laptop vs wall charger.

    Removing the headphone jack from the iPhone was a fairly bounded and manageable problem. The vast majority of people will only ever use one set of headphones with their iPhone. If you used 3rd party wired headphones, one $10 adapter solves 99% of the problem. A laptop needs to be able to connect to a much larger,  ore diverse, and, for some of us, constantly changing set of devices. "Get an adapter" is neither a convenient or elegant solution.

    I know you are going to disagree and probably go into a rage about how stupid and stubborn I am, but in my opinion, they should have provided a model with both Type C and Type A and then gone C-only with the next iteration (along with Kaby Lake) just like they have with the port migrations in the past.
    Not stubborn and stupid, but shall we say unsympathetic to engineering and production challenges. Each compromise wth past standards in the machine not only represents thousands of hours of engineering time, millions of dollars of resources as the compromises are prototyped back and forth, but most important they introduce fatal distractions and dispiriting rats nests of pointless finessing over obsolescences that should just be cut and done with. You have to think like Jobs did. Just buy an adapter.
    edited October 2016 tmaypscooter63ration alwatto_cobra
  • Reply 137 of 250
    Seems like some very "safe" iterating on the line for these laptops, but where in the hell is the pipeline full of exciting new products? Where? They're now spending billions more on research... yet where are the breakthroughs? I hope the focus on real innovation has not entirely gone in favor of raiding the pantry for the management and employees? My uninformed (outsider) opinion tells me people need to feel some fire under them and utter wastes such as Eddie Cue, Dr. Dre and (sadly) Jony Ive need to take lesser roles at the company.
    edited October 2016
  • Reply 138 of 250
    crowleycrowley Posts: 5,799member
    Soli said:
    longpath said:
    Soli said:
    longpath said:
    Did they explain why the 2.9GHz 13" MacBookPro with Touch Bar is only available with a 250GB SSD? Even the 2.0GHz 13" MBP without the Touch Bar is available up to 1TB. I didn't see anything in the keynote that explained this apparent oversight, and I hope it is just a temporary situation. 

    I thought it so odd, I even tried tweeting Tim Cook about it: https://twitter.com/darkpath0010/status/791733232131796992
    How the fuck do you get 250GB[sic] as the maximum? I see 1TB as the max with a mid-level option of 512GB.

    Because when I look, there is no option at all regarding the SSD: 

    It jumps directly from Memory to Keyboard and Documentation, skipping any Storage options:
    [image]
    Unless there is a problem with their website—which I think is doubtful—then you didn't click the link I supplied. Here's a screen of what I see. I'm guessing you choose the entry-level MacBook Pro with Touch Bar instead of choosing the other one which allows you to confugure the same options as the other, plus the storage capacity.


    Your link worked for me, but when I navigated to it I didn't see the Capacity options either:
    http://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro?product=MLH12LL/A&step=config#

    The product ID is different from your link, so something funny is going on.


    EDIT: Looks like the higher end one that ships with a default of 512GB is configurable up to 1TB, but the mid-range one that ships with 256GB is not capacity configurable at all.  Which seems silly, as the only difference between the mid-range and high-end appears to be the capacity.

    But effectively, it's configurable, at 256GB, 512GB or 1TB, just split across two products.
    edited October 2016
  • Reply 139 of 250
    gumbigumbi Posts: 148member
    gumbi said:
    I see Touch ID being the biggest reason for this update. Eventually it will replace username and password on the web which will be an end game move on the competition. Remembering usernames and passwords on websites, resetting them, having accounts compromised by software capturing key strokes or fishing scams are BY FAR the largest complaint/problem/annoyance the average computer user has. Solve this pain point few people would even look at another platform. 

    See "Windows Hello".  MS has already got this covered.
    Covered so well I've never even heard of it before you mentioned it. Just from a cursory web search it looks like a technology that will go nowhere and even if it did it would still be riddled with the same fundamental security problems that come with using a computer who's OS is a Frankenstein's monster type amalgamation of shitty bolted on code. Not trying to be a jerk here, I spend many years of my life dealing with peoples Windows/PC problems both personally and professionally. Now that my friends and family all have macs I get called maybe once a year; not with a "my computer is broken/not working" type question but a hey "I want to store some photo's on an external disk drive, since there is not an Apple branded one which one should I get".

    I am not surprised you haven't heard of it.  Since you obviously haven't used windows for at least a decade...
  • Reply 140 of 250

    Though Off The Topic, Have You Ever Typed " Telex " Key Board ?
    That Was Indespensable Pre-Historic Tool for ANYBODY Who Were Engaged in The Business Communicating with People World-Widely Instantaneously on The Wire Before The Real Curtain of http:// & E-Mail Era Opened.

    What I Want to Say is I ReaLly Loved and Captivated by The " Touch & Feel " of The Key Board of Telex So Long - Very DEEP, PROFOUND STROKE with Real Hard & Heavy Response and Comfortable Clicking Sound - No Other Key Board of Computers Nowadays Developped in The Direction of " Thinner & Lighter " and Even No Other Typewriters Key Boards Can Match.

    Probably Very First Period of Computers Key Boards Such As IBM Terminal that Appeared in The Video Clip of This Live Event and Commodore Ones Might Have Retained The Same Touch, and Even Apple II Maybe.

    Of Course Those Key Boards Look Now Fossil Age Products - TOO HEAVY & TOO BULKY !

    But I Still Want Any Vendor in The World Have Them Resurrect and Sell !!!!!!
    I Have Never Ever Had Such " Orgasm " When I Typed Any Key of Telex Key Board with Any Developped Thin & Silent ( Real Physical Clicking Sound, NOT The Sound Out of Speakers ! ) Key Boards of Late.


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