Apple Pay VP says Australian banks short-circuited adoption by sidestepping talks

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in General Discussion
The VP in charge of Apple Pay, Jennifer Bailey, criticized hold-out Australian banks in an interview published on Friday, arguing that they were too quick to jump to legal action rather than talk with Apple.




"While initially, in many markets, there have been banks that have initially been wary about working with a company as large as Apple, once they begin to work with us and understand the Apple Pay platform, they see the benefits of it," Bailey told AFR. "That hasn't fully happened with the ACCC [Australian Competition and Consumer Commission] applicants, because the conversation is happening through the ACCC process, compared to what normally happens, which is we have the conversation bilaterally."

Several banks -- National Australia Bank, Commonwealth Bank of Australia, Westpac Banking Corp, and Bendigo and Adelaide Bank -- have filed a complaint with the ACCC, asking to collectively negotiate for access to the same NFC technology Apple Pay uses. Although a final ruling isn't likely until next month, a draft decision appears to have already shot down the idea.

Only one major national bank, ANZ, currently supports Apple Pay in Australia, though alternatives like ING and Macquarie are available.

Apple has insisted that allowing third-party access to its NFC technology would compromise security, and that device owners would have to manually pick which app uses the chip anyway, potentially reducing adoption. Bailey added that despite Apple Pay being integrated with the company's devices, that shouldn't stop the creation of other digital wallets.

She likewise suggested that Apple still wants to work with resistant banks, claiming that Apple Pay "advantages many of the things they are offering through their banking apps."

The executive observed that Australians are using Apple Pay more often each month than customers in any other country, something she credited to "Australia being a recognized global leader in contactless payments and usage." Some 26 percent of ANZ customers are using the platform.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 32
    hill60hill60 Posts: 6,989member
    Australian banks are blood sucking leeches protected by political donations to a horde of ex bankers in our parliament, up to and including Malcolm Turnbull the Prime Minister, (President Trumbull as your new president refers to him).

    I've been with ANZ for decades and started using Apple Pay from day one, as Australian banks operate like a cartel and are all exactly the same if you want to use it change banks.

    The only issue I've had is with Suncorp merchant terminals which don't seem to accept Apple Pay.
    patchythepiratemacstarjbdragonmacbishoksecentropyslostkiwianomewatto_cobra
  • Reply 2 of 32
    Maybe if the recalcitrant banks start losing customers in droves to ANZ and the smaller, Apple Pay-connected banks, the bloodsuckers will get the message. 25% adoption is pretty amazing; if 25% of the other large banks' customers want Apple Pay and are willing to switch banks to get it, the banks being left behind have a serious problem.
    jbdragonmacbisholostkiwiwatto_cobra
  • Reply 3 of 32
    thrangthrang Posts: 751member
    You see, bilateral is better than multilateral...Trump is having an affect on Apple already...
  • Reply 4 of 32
    macstarmacstar Posts: 1unconfirmed, member
    hill60 said:
    Australian banks are blood sucking leeches protected by political donations to a horde of ex bankers in our parliament, up to and including Malcolm Turnbull the Prime Minister, (President Trumbull as your new president refers to him).

    I've been with ANZ for decades and started using Apple Pay from day one, as Australian banks operate like a cartel and are all exactly the same if you want to use it change banks.

    The only issue I've had is with Suncorp merchant terminals which don't seem to accept Apple Pay.

    hill60 said:
    Australian banks are blood sucking leeches protected by political donations to a horde of ex bankers in our parliament, up to and including Malcolm Turnbull the Prime Minister, (President Trumbull as your new president refers to him).

    I've been with ANZ for decades and started using Apple Pay from day one, as Australian banks operate like a cartel and are all exactly the same if you want to use it change banks.

    The only issue I've had is with Suncorp merchant terminals which don't seem to accept Apple Pay.

    Totally agree, they are just proving once again they have zero consideration for what their customers want and their arrogance shines through. It does little to install confidence in the general public perception about fairness. This is all about profit and nothing about the consumer. If this was so anti competitive, why have literally thousands of other banks around the world adopted it with open arms. Australia banks should feel ashamed, but as noted above, it just stinks of protectivism. 
    jbdragonmacbishowatto_cobra
  • Reply 5 of 32
    CrazyoldrangaCrazyoldranga Posts: 2unconfirmed, member
    Tap and go with my card works well enough for me. Quicker and easier than pulling a phone out and starting the app etc, etc.
  • Reply 6 of 32
    Tap and go with my card works well enough for me. Quicker and easier than pulling a phone out and starting the app etc, etc.
    So you have your card in your hand at all times? Never in your wallet?

    ::smh::

    Also, you don't understand ApplePay. There. Is. No. App. To. Launch. 

    Jeez some people are daft. 

    I swapped bank. Would recommend everyone that wants ApplePay does, as the big four have no desire at all. 
    StrangeDayswatto_cobrajony0
  • Reply 7 of 32
    I've recently opened an ANZ account and in the process of closing my BankWest accounts as the have no plan to adopt ApplePay. Paying with my watch is so much easier. 
    lostkiwiwatto_cobra
  • Reply 8 of 32
    entropysentropys Posts: 1,424member
    Tap and go with my card works well enough for me. Quicker and easier than pulling a phone out and starting the app etc, etc.
    That's if you use one of the banks' apps. No need to open Apps with ApplePay.
    edited February 2017 watto_cobra
  • Reply 9 of 32
    In NZ it is exactly the same (as the banks are almost all Aussie owned). BNZ have come out with Android Pay and are pushing it quite hard. 

    So I dropped BNZ and now all my banking is with ANZ. BNZ have been really good, but the blocking of ApplePay really ticked me off. There were other reasons as well, of course. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 10 of 32
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 4,517member
    Tap and go with my card works well enough for me. Quicker and easier than pulling a phone out and starting the app etc, etc.
    When you hold the phone near the reader then it's ready.  There's no app to start. It's also a lot more secure.

    By your description it seems you walk around with your card in your hand. That is not a common practice and it's also a bad idea. 

    pscooter63StrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 11 of 32
    anomeanome Posts: 1,196member
    I find it much harder to get my wallet out, and pull the card out, then wave it at the scanner. The phone's much easier.

    The banks were colluding on something, big surprise. They collude on everything.
    robertwalterwatto_cobra
  • Reply 12 of 32
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,065member
    Apple is offering a service which has a cost to the bank that implements it. Some banks have chosen to pass the costs onto clients indirectly (Santander for example). Saying the system doesn't require an app seems strange as in this case iOS is the app. Some banks use a small sticker (which isn't very pretty but isn't a big issue if you use a case either) and doesn't need the phone even to be on.

    Logically, banks want to protect their interests just like Apple. Apple must simply put a better offer on the table or wait for customers of banks that don't implement Apple Pay to switch. We can't realistically complain about banks shielding their own interests when Apple is doing exactly the same.

    My contactless card is in a reserved pocket with my transport pass. It is lighter than my phone and doesn't require a battery. Even if it were in my wallet it would be exactly the same as taking my phone out of wherever it was. I do not miss Apple Pay or other wallet systems even though I can use many different types currently available.

    I would love for Apple to implement a complete NFC system though.
  • Reply 13 of 32
    Tap and go with my card works well enough for me. Quicker and easier than pulling a phone out and starting the app etc, etc.
    Obviously a shill since there is no "app" to use with Apple Pay. Finger on sensor, place near terminal. Done. Or use watch.
    robertwalterwatto_cobra
  • Reply 14 of 32
    avon b7 said:
    Apple is offering a service which has a cost to the bank that implements it. Some banks have chosen to pass the costs onto clients indirectly (Santander for example). Saying the system doesn't require an app seems strange as in this case iOS is the app. Some banks use a small sticker (which isn't very pretty but isn't a big issue if you use a case either) and doesn't need the phone even to be on.
    OMG....what kind of screwed up mental gymnastics are you performing here? You're saying it's fair to say there's an "app" to launch, because iOS? That's absurd. There is no "app" because you don't need to launch a damn thing -- just wave the phone over the POST with your finger resting on Touch ID, and it's done. No need to unlock the phone or open a thing, thus there is no app, the argument is intellectually bankrupt.

    But yeah, putting a fucking sticker on your phone is a much better solution. Cool story bro.
    edited February 2017 robertwalterwatto_cobra
  • Reply 15 of 32
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,065member
    avon b7 said:
    Apple is offering a service which has a cost to the bank that implements it. Some banks have chosen to pass the costs onto clients indirectly (Santander for example). Saying the system doesn't require an app seems strange as in this case iOS is the app. Some banks use a small sticker (which isn't very pretty but isn't a big issue if you use a case either) and doesn't need the phone even to be on.
    OMG....what kind of screwed up mental gymnastics are you performing here? You're saying it's fair to say there's an "app" to launch, because iOS? That's absurd. There is no "app" because you don't need to launch a damn thing -- just wave the phone over the POST with your finger resting on Touch ID, and it's done. No need to unlock the phone or open a thing, thus there is no app, the argument is intellectually bankrupt.

    But yeah, putting a fucking sticker on your phone is a much better solution. Cool story bro.
    OMG! Which bit did you fail to understand?

    It doesn't matter if there is an app or not! That was my point. Something is handling the process and it could be an app or the system itself. Again. Does it matter? I was replying to other comments and it wasn't even the main part of my post.

    I don't use Wallet systems (with or without stickers) or Apple Pay or any other similar systems. I could use a whole bunch if I wanted but at the moment I'm passing because I really don't need anything more than a piece of plastic and a PIN code for transactions over 20€. No weight, no battery, just a piece of plastic. I never take my phone to the beach and if I pop down to the local supermarkets I don't need to either. Just a tiny piece of plastic. There are advantages to all the systems but each person will decide which one is better in each context.

    Putting a sticker on your phone is a great solution if your phone doesn't support NFC or your card issuer doesn't support Apple Pay.

    Like I said, the sticker solution isn't pretty but if it's that or carrying a physical card around when you don't want to, it isn't a big deal when the sticker itself is often invisible on the back of the phone and under a case.

    "screwed up mental gymnastics"? In a word: 'Nope'.

    My post was centered on the attitude of the banks. I'm no fan of the banks but I can see why some are reluctant to get onboard phone payment systems from companies that want in on the deal. That isn't so hard to understand and let's be honest, Apple didn't design this for its users. It designed it as a revenue stream. The problem is that it will only work if you can convince the card issuing banks. Something identical happened with music sales. You have to negotiate.

    It's all normal business.
    edited February 2017
  • Reply 16 of 32
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    Apple is offering a service which has a cost to the bank that implements it. Some banks have chosen to pass the costs onto clients indirectly (Santander for example). Saying the system doesn't require an app seems strange as in this case iOS is the app. Some banks use a small sticker (which isn't very pretty but isn't a big issue if you use a case either) and doesn't need the phone even to be on.
    OMG....what kind of screwed up mental gymnastics are you performing here? You're saying it's fair to say there's an "app" to launch, because iOS? That's absurd. There is no "app" because you don't need to launch a damn thing -- just wave the phone over the POST with your finger resting on Touch ID, and it's done. No need to unlock the phone or open a thing, thus there is no app, the argument is intellectually bankrupt.

    But yeah, putting a fucking sticker on your phone is a much better solution. Cool story bro.
    OMG! Which bit did you fail to understand?

    It doesn't matter if there is an app or not! That was my point. Something is handling the process and it could be an app or the system itself. Again. Does it matter? I was replying to other comments and it wasn't even the main part of my post.

    I don't use Wallet systems (with or without stickers) or Apple Pay or any other similar systems. I could use a whole bunch if I wanted but at the moment I'm passing because I really don't need anything more than a piece of plastic and a PIN code for transactions over 20€. No weight, no battery, just a piece of plastic. I never take my phone to the beach and if I pop down to the local supermarkets I don't need to either. Just a tiny piece of plastic. There are advantages to all the systems but each person will decide which one is better in each context.

    Putting a sticker on your phone is a great solution if your phone doesn't support NFC or your card issuer doesn't support Apple Pay.

    Like I said, the sticker solution isn't pretty but if it's that or carrying a physical card around when you don't want to, it isn't a big deal when the sticker itself is often invisible on the back of the phone and under a case.

    "screwed up mental gymnastics"? In a word: 'Nope'.

    My post was centered on the attitude of the banks. I'm no fan of the banks but I can see why some are reluctant to get onboard phone payment systems from companies that want in on the deal. That isn't so hard to understand and let's be honest, Apple didn't design this for its users. It designed it as a revenue stream. The problem is that it will only work if you can convince the card issuing banks. Something identical happened with music sales. You have to negotiate.

    It's all normal business.
    Dear sir/madman,

    that fucking dumb ass sticker on your phone/in your pass etc. secures your money as well as a sieve holds water. 

    You have totally missed the point of ApplePay if you can't wrap your head around that. 

    I had one of those shitty bank cases, and then a sticker. If you lose or have your phone stolen you have no security on it. With ApplePay they need your fingerprint to pay for things still. Oh and as a bonus, if you lose your actual card the bank can instantly issue a new one to your phone via ApplePay. 

    As as an aside, doing groceries today - $140 - no pin required from Woolworths. 
    robertwalterwatto_cobra
  • Reply 17 of 32
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,065member
    macbisho said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    Apple is offering a service which has a cost to the bank that implements it. Some banks have chosen to pass the costs onto clients indirectly (Santander for example). Saying the system doesn't require an app seems strange as in this case iOS is the app. Some banks use a small sticker (which isn't very pretty but isn't a big issue if you use a case either) and doesn't need the phone even to be on.
    OMG....what kind of screwed up mental gymnastics are you performing here? You're saying it's fair to say there's an "app" to launch, because iOS? That's absurd. There is no "app" because you don't need to launch a damn thing -- just wave the phone over the POST with your finger resting on Touch ID, and it's done. No need to unlock the phone or open a thing, thus there is no app, the argument is intellectually bankrupt.

    But yeah, putting a fucking sticker on your phone is a much better solution. Cool story bro.
    OMG! Which bit did you fail to understand?

    It doesn't matter if there is an app or not! That was my point. Something is handling the process and it could be an app or the system itself. Again. Does it matter? I was replying to other comments and it wasn't even the main part of my post.

    I don't use Wallet systems (with or without stickers) or Apple Pay or any other similar systems. I could use a whole bunch if I wanted but at the moment I'm passing because I really don't need anything more than a piece of plastic and a PIN code for transactions over 20€. No weight, no battery, just a piece of plastic. I never take my phone to the beach and if I pop down to the local supermarkets I don't need to either. Just a tiny piece of plastic. There are advantages to all the systems but each person will decide which one is better in each context.

    Putting a sticker on your phone is a great solution if your phone doesn't support NFC or your card issuer doesn't support Apple Pay.

    Like I said, the sticker solution isn't pretty but if it's that or carrying a physical card around when you don't want to, it isn't a big deal when the sticker itself is often invisible on the back of the phone and under a case.

    "screwed up mental gymnastics"? In a word: 'Nope'.

    My post was centered on the attitude of the banks. I'm no fan of the banks but I can see why some are reluctant to get onboard phone payment systems from companies that want in on the deal. That isn't so hard to understand and let's be honest, Apple didn't design this for its users. It designed it as a revenue stream. The problem is that it will only work if you can convince the card issuing banks. Something identical happened with music sales. You have to negotiate.

    It's all normal business.
    Dear sir/madman,

    that fucking dumb ass sticker on your phone/in your pass etc. secures your money as well as a sieve holds water. 

    You have totally missed the point of ApplePay if you can't wrap your head around that. 

    I had one of those shitty bank cases, and then a sticker. If you lose or have your phone stolen you have no security on it. With ApplePay they need your fingerprint to pay for things still. Oh and as a bonus, if you lose your actual card the bank can instantly issue a new one to your phone via ApplePay. 

    As as an aside, doing groceries today - $140 - no pin required from Woolworths. 
    So we go from OMG to Madman.

    I wonder if you can wrap your head around this: If you don't have an iPhone: No Apple Pay. If you do not have NFC: No wallet payments. If your card issuer doesn't support Apple Pay: No go.

    As I said, the sticker solution is not elegant but it is a solution.

    As for security. Don't compare Apple Pay security to any other system if Apple Pay isn't available to you - for whatever the reason. Even if you have the latest iPhone, you are dead in the water if your bank doesn't support it. That, without getting into contactless availability on the POS terminal itself. Also, sticker security is exactly the same as card security.

    And as I said to the previous poster, my post was centered on the attitude nof the banks.

    I (and my wife) get notified of all transactions. We can suspend our cards or cancel them at will (by phone/tablet app, internet or via a call to the bank) If we wanted to we could leave them deactivated until whenever we used them. Sieves? Well no. Not even with stickers.

    I sincerely hope you can get your head around all this.
    edited February 2017
  • Reply 18 of 32
    hill60hill60 Posts: 6,989member
    Tap and go with my card works well enough for me. Quicker and easier than pulling a phone out and starting the app etc, etc.
    ...but nowhere near as quick and easy as an Apple Watch.
    edited February 2017 watto_cobra
  • Reply 19 of 32
    hill60hill60 Posts: 6,989member
    avon b7 said:
    Apple is offering a service which has a cost to the bank that implements it. Some banks have chosen to pass the costs onto clients indirectly (Santander for example). Saying the system doesn't require an app seems strange as in this case iOS is the app. Some banks use a small sticker (which isn't very pretty but isn't a big issue if you use a case either) and doesn't need the phone even to be on.
    OMG....what kind of screwed up mental gymnastics are you performing here? You're saying it's fair to say there's an "app" to launch, because iOS? That's absurd. There is no "app" because you don't need to launch a damn thing -- just wave the phone over the POST with your finger resting on Touch ID, and it's done. No need to unlock the phone or open a thing, thus there is no app, the argument is intellectually bankrupt.

    But yeah, putting a fucking sticker on your phone is a much better solution. Cool story bro.
    Obviously a fan of CBA, as far as I am aware the only Australian bank which offers this.

    Ever tried to remove the sticker when you switch phones and want to pass the old one on?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 20 of 32
    Tap and go with my card works well enough for me. Quicker and easier than pulling a phone out and starting the app etc, etc.
    Tap and Pay cards w/ embedded RF chips were conceived before android phones with NFC and free skimming apps became available on the internet. higher power antennas are available that can get your card to cough out its details over IIRC a range of 20+ feet. 

    We have requested cards without the RF feature (still can get separate chip feature) and for those that don't offer this option, we punched a hole through the card eher it damaged the embedded antenna but no other feature of the card; check google/YouTube for details)
    watto_cobra
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