<strong>So if the PowerMac isn't revised at MWNY will Steve flash a slide with a pic of it and a date for the release like he did for the XServe at WWDC?</strong><hr></blockquote>
No freakin' frakin' way... They are trying to unload the G4's they have right now. No way is he going to show a picture and say, "THIS is what we have around the corner.... Don't spend your money now, wait for this great machine!"
He could do it with the XServe because there is no body waiting to upgrade their XServer (they didn't exist before). The XServe was targeting a new market for Apple.
Yeah, people know that they are coming... but there are those who will take the discounts and buy the current G4s... but once Steve applies the RDF to the upcoming machines a hunk of those people would hold off buying the current machines.
Apple couldn't win if they announced the new G4's without shipping them. Steve needs to hype-up new machines to make sure they sell, but doing that now would cause G4 sells to completely stop. Not hyping-up the newer machines enough wouldn't create the buzz to really get the new machines rolling.
Of course, what I'd like to see is for them to release the new machines even with the old machines still on shelves. They would fix the inventory problem by selling the old machines and SUPER DUPER DUPER discount rates. Of course, then you start eating into eMac and iMac sells.
The smart thing for Apple to do is discount their current machines by the promotionals, and when they are close to being cleared out, announce the new PowerMacs Towers. Which is sounding like that's what they plan on doing.
The smart thing for Apple to do is discount their current machines by the promotionals, and when they are close to being cleared out, announce the new PowerMacs Towers. Which is sounding like that's what they plan on doing.</strong><hr></blockquote>
What about if those SlowSilvers don't go at all? Is that mean we are going to wait forever?
When Steve unveiled the new iMac at MWSF, he also announced the SuperDrive model would be shipping by the end of the month, the combo in February and the CD-RW in March. Nobody was wringing hands about what that would do to sales of G3 iMacs in the meantime.
Apple has introduced, and probably will continue to introduce, products that are not available for shipping, sometimes for months. Their obsession with secrecy won't let them have the channels full of new products before an announcement; there are too many chances for leaks.
I'd have to agree with the sentiment that it would be a bad idea for Apple to put off to announcing new Power Macs just because there's a backlog of the current Power Macs.
Under ordinary circumstances, Apple would be doing the right thing to keep an upgrade secret until current stock is low and a new model is ready to go.
But the current Power Macs are so far behind expectations for performance that the only thing that's going to move them is deep discounts, regardless of whether Apple announces new Power Macs right away, or if Apple remains silent for now but everyone sits back waiting for an announcement, perhaps getting annoyed and buying a PC instead.
Apple should be willing to take a small hit now in order to build mind share and market share. Despite what CNET and others have reported, I find it hard to believe there's much Power Mac inventory anyway. Power Mac sales have been sluggish for more than a year. Apple should have known not to crank out warehouses full of the things.
Let's assume that the next Power Macs really will be something big, a significant leap in performance. If it were up to me (okay, I'll admit I haven't had many job offers for positions as a corporate CEO lately) I'd announce new Power Macs at MWNY, even if they won't be ready to ship for a month or two. Get the good press and the buzz going. Start taking pre-orders to bring cash in right away. I'd accept slim margins, or even moderate losses, on older Power Macs, offering unconditional discounts, and even combine those discounts with further incentives like the current "Crystal Clear" offer.
<strong>When Steve unveiled the new iMac at MWSF, he also announced the SuperDrive model would be shipping by the end of the month, the combo in February and the CD-RW in March. Nobody was wringing hands about what that would do to sales of G3 iMacs in the meantime.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I think that Apple should announce new Power Macs soon too, for reasons that I explained in my last post. I'd don't think, however, the example you cite above applies well to the Power Mac situation.
In the case of the iMacs, the most expensive and appealing options were available first. That way Apple was able to goad impatient buyers into spending more money than they otherwise might if a cheaper option were immediately available. The buyers choices were:
1) Expensive, but quick gratification and more power
2) Cheap, but more patience required for less power.
Announcing new, more powerful Power Macs necessitates cutting prices for the current models. If the new Power Macs aren't ready to go right away, the choices become:
1) Cheap and quick gratification, but less power.
2) Expensive and more patience required, but also more power.
That's a very different dynamic. If cheap isn't cheap enough, patience will prevail and you won't move the old inventory. If cheap is cheap enough, you'll move the inventory but make very little money doing it, or even lose money.
Still, like I said before, I believe Apple's long term goals are better served by taking slim profits or even moderate losses on inventories of the current not-so-powerful Power Macs.
Some of you need to take some retail marketing lessons.
If Apple has a new High End machine ready to go they will not keep it held up because of already poor moving current product. They release it...
...And something comes of that.
Press. Interest. Curiosity. Deal Hunters.
The interest in the older machines actually goes up a certain degree.
There are always those looking for the bargain, those that wait until the new units are announced in hopes they get a good deal.
This is particularly true in regard to small businesses who look for machines that are wholly capable but a good price. The current crop of units with 300 bucks or more slashed from the price makes them very attractive.
Anyone remember how hard it was to get a DP 800 NIB after the 1GHZ was announced. They were 500 bucks less, but good luck getting one.
Lastly, the channel is not heaped with them as so many keep saying. It just isn't true.
<strong>So if the PowerMac isn't revised at MWNY will Steve flash a slide with a pic of it and a date for the release like he did for the XServe at WWDC?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Nope, <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> , nope <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> , nope. <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> What good would it do business wise? It would kill PowerMac sales! <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
Nope, <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> , nope <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> , nope. <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> What good would it do business wise? It would kill PowerMac sales! <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>
Yeah, but Powermac sales are around zero anyway, they can't go down further.
[quote]Still, like I said before, I believe Apple's long term goals are better served by taking slim profits or even moderate losses on inventories of the current not-so-powerful Power Macs. <hr></blockquote>
We agree there. Unless Power Mac inventories are REALLY large, which I would find surprising, I don't see why Apple couldn't announce new models at MWNY.
I think if Apple was really desperate to clear the channel, they'd have slapped outright discounts on them instead of this display promo. We know the margins on Power Macs are pretty fat; combined with the margins on LCDs, I can pretty safely say they're not LOSING any money on current G4 sales. $300 off on a $1,600 Power Mac with a $1,000 display? <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
At least someone realizes that new product is shipped as soon as it's ready. Technology marches forward very agressively, you want to release product while it still has a chance of being leading edge and fresh, you don't hold it back to clear away some stagnating stock.
Besides Apple actually cuts institutions some very good volume discounts (hard to believe, no?) I know quite a few dept heads that would be thrilled to get a lab full of close out quicksilvers at a reasonable cost. People are under the impression that Apple would have to write off a huge back log of stock, but it just isn't true. A sale is a sale. I'll bet you a steeply discounted QS has similar margins to a retail priced iMac, who cares what people buy. Options are good, nothing that goes out the door would be even remotely close to being a loss leader. But, people like deals, and they like options, give 'em both, and they just might open their wallets. A base QS is certainly cheaper to make than an iMac (standard MoBo, no LCD, old case design). Don't get your collective panties in a bunch over sales tactics you don't understand. Such moments present a unique opportunity to temporarily broaden offerings while transitioning product lines and, possibly, pick up a few new customers along the way.
Discount QuickSilvers would make for a compelling "DELL-fighter" in the institutional market, a profitable one too.
It just sounds to me like the new razzle-dazzle mobo's weren't ready in time for MW - so Apple grit their teeth, sucked it up, and is playing for time (yet again!) ... hoping a discount on the current stop-gap-arama machines will buy them a month or so to get thier shite together.
If there's anything to announce, they do. The argument that current PowerMacs would no longer sell is partially true, but the flipside is that they would go fast at a discount. On a different thread someone mentioned that deals like this often go to the education side. So, current PowerMacs would find a good home in schools.
The reason you announce is because of the media. There's going to be so much press, you will catch a few ears with the announcement. You'll keep some Mac users from switching and get a few PC sales as well.
That is if the update is noteworthy. Otherwise we all run and hide.
<strong>there are going to be some sad people come MWNY</strong><hr></blockquote>
How anybody could get emotional over an early August release rather than MWNY is simply beyond me.
Two weeks... Four at most before the release of the PM.... so what?
If it is killer technology who cares?
I am excited as the next guy to see what's coming... but when it gets here I would rather it didn't suck. And if they need 2-4 weeks more to hammer it out then they should.
Comments
<strong>So if the PowerMac isn't revised at MWNY will Steve flash a slide with a pic of it and a date for the release like he did for the XServe at WWDC?</strong><hr></blockquote>
No freakin' frakin' way... They are trying to unload the G4's they have right now. No way is he going to show a picture and say, "THIS is what we have around the corner.... Don't spend your money now, wait for this great machine!"
He could do it with the XServe because there is no body waiting to upgrade their XServer (they didn't exist before). The XServe was targeting a new market for Apple.
Yeah, people know that they are coming... but there are those who will take the discounts and buy the current G4s... but once Steve applies the RDF to the upcoming machines a hunk of those people would hold off buying the current machines.
Apple couldn't win if they announced the new G4's without shipping them. Steve needs to hype-up new machines to make sure they sell, but doing that now would cause G4 sells to completely stop. Not hyping-up the newer machines enough wouldn't create the buzz to really get the new machines rolling.
Of course, what I'd like to see is for them to release the new machines even with the old machines still on shelves. They would fix the inventory problem by selling the old machines and SUPER DUPER DUPER discount rates. Of course, then you start eating into eMac and iMac sells.
The smart thing for Apple to do is discount their current machines by the promotionals, and when they are close to being cleared out, announce the new PowerMacs Towers. Which is sounding like that's what they plan on doing.
<strong>
The smart thing for Apple to do is discount their current machines by the promotionals, and when they are close to being cleared out, announce the new PowerMacs Towers. Which is sounding like that's what they plan on doing.</strong><hr></blockquote>
What about if those SlowSilvers don't go at all? Is that mean we are going to wait forever?
Apple has introduced, and probably will continue to introduce, products that are not available for shipping, sometimes for months. Their obsession with secrecy won't let them have the channels full of new products before an announcement; there are too many chances for leaks.
Under ordinary circumstances, Apple would be doing the right thing to keep an upgrade secret until current stock is low and a new model is ready to go.
But the current Power Macs are so far behind expectations for performance that the only thing that's going to move them is deep discounts, regardless of whether Apple announces new Power Macs right away, or if Apple remains silent for now but everyone sits back waiting for an announcement, perhaps getting annoyed and buying a PC instead.
Apple should be willing to take a small hit now in order to build mind share and market share. Despite what CNET and others have reported, I find it hard to believe there's much Power Mac inventory anyway. Power Mac sales have been sluggish for more than a year. Apple should have known not to crank out warehouses full of the things.
Let's assume that the next Power Macs really will be something big, a significant leap in performance. If it were up to me (okay, I'll admit I haven't had many job offers for positions as a corporate CEO lately) I'd announce new Power Macs at MWNY, even if they won't be ready to ship for a month or two. Get the good press and the buzz going. Start taking pre-orders to bring cash in right away. I'd accept slim margins, or even moderate losses, on older Power Macs, offering unconditional discounts, and even combine those discounts with further incentives like the current "Crystal Clear" offer.
<strong>When Steve unveiled the new iMac at MWSF, he also announced the SuperDrive model would be shipping by the end of the month, the combo in February and the CD-RW in March. Nobody was wringing hands about what that would do to sales of G3 iMacs in the meantime.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I think that Apple should announce new Power Macs soon too, for reasons that I explained in my last post. I'd don't think, however, the example you cite above applies well to the Power Mac situation.
In the case of the iMacs, the most expensive and appealing options were available first. That way Apple was able to goad impatient buyers into spending more money than they otherwise might if a cheaper option were immediately available. The buyers choices were:
1) Expensive, but quick gratification and more power
2) Cheap, but more patience required for less power.
Announcing new, more powerful Power Macs necessitates cutting prices for the current models. If the new Power Macs aren't ready to go right away, the choices become:
1) Cheap and quick gratification, but less power.
2) Expensive and more patience required, but also more power.
That's a very different dynamic. If cheap isn't cheap enough, patience will prevail and you won't move the old inventory. If cheap is cheap enough, you'll move the inventory but make very little money doing it, or even lose money.
Still, like I said before, I believe Apple's long term goals are better served by taking slim profits or even moderate losses on inventories of the current not-so-powerful Power Macs.
[ 07-10-2002: Message edited by: shetline ]</p>
If Apple has a new High End machine ready to go they will not keep it held up because of already poor moving current product. They release it...
...And something comes of that.
Press. Interest. Curiosity. Deal Hunters.
The interest in the older machines actually goes up a certain degree.
There are always those looking for the bargain, those that wait until the new units are announced in hopes they get a good deal.
This is particularly true in regard to small businesses who look for machines that are wholly capable but a good price. The current crop of units with 300 bucks or more slashed from the price makes them very attractive.
Anyone remember how hard it was to get a DP 800 NIB after the 1GHZ was announced. They were 500 bucks less, but good luck getting one.
Lastly, the channel is not heaped with them as so many keep saying. It just isn't true.
<strong>So if the PowerMac isn't revised at MWNY will Steve flash a slide with a pic of it and a date for the release like he did for the XServe at WWDC?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Nope, <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> , nope <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> , nope. <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> What good would it do business wise? It would kill PowerMac sales! <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
<strong>
Nope, <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> , nope <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> , nope. <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> What good would it do business wise? It would kill PowerMac sales! <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>
Yeah, but Powermac sales are around zero anyway, they can't go down further.
We agree there. Unless Power Mac inventories are REALLY large, which I would find surprising, I don't see why Apple couldn't announce new models at MWNY.
I think if Apple was really desperate to clear the channel, they'd have slapped outright discounts on them instead of this display promo. We know the margins on Power Macs are pretty fat; combined with the margins on LCDs, I can pretty safely say they're not LOSING any money on current G4 sales. $300 off on a $1,600 Power Mac with a $1,000 display? <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
At least someone realizes that new product is shipped as soon as it's ready. Technology marches forward very agressively, you want to release product while it still has a chance of being leading edge and fresh, you don't hold it back to clear away some stagnating stock.
Besides Apple actually cuts institutions some very good volume discounts (hard to believe, no?) I know quite a few dept heads that would be thrilled to get a lab full of close out quicksilvers at a reasonable cost. People are under the impression that Apple would have to write off a huge back log of stock, but it just isn't true. A sale is a sale. I'll bet you a steeply discounted QS has similar margins to a retail priced iMac, who cares what people buy. Options are good, nothing that goes out the door would be even remotely close to being a loss leader. But, people like deals, and they like options, give 'em both, and they just might open their wallets. A base QS is certainly cheaper to make than an iMac (standard MoBo, no LCD, old case design). Don't get your collective panties in a bunch over sales tactics you don't understand. Such moments present a unique opportunity to temporarily broaden offerings while transitioning product lines and, possibly, pick up a few new customers along the way.
Discount QuickSilvers would make for a compelling "DELL-fighter" in the institutional market, a profitable one too.
The reason you announce is because of the media. There's going to be so much press, you will catch a few ears with the announcement. You'll keep some Mac users from switching and get a few PC sales as well.
That is if the update is noteworthy. Otherwise we all run and hide.
<strong>there are going to be some sad people come MWNY</strong><hr></blockquote>
How anybody could get emotional over an early August release rather than MWNY is simply beyond me.
Two weeks... Four at most before the release of the PM.... so what?
If it is killer technology who cares?
I am excited as the next guy to see what's coming... but when it gets here I would rather it didn't suck. And if they need 2-4 weeks more to hammer it out then they should.