Apple to start Indian iPhone manufacturing within next two months

Posted:
in iPhone
Apple's Indian manufacturing will finally begin within the next 4 to 6 weeks at a Wistron plant in Bangalore -- and more ambitious plans are already being hatched.




The first products to be manufactured will actually be the iPhone 6 and 6s, a government official told the Wall Street Journal. The iPhone SE will start coming off assembly lines in about 3 months.

"Almost all preparations have been done for launching Apple's first phase project in Bangalore through Wistron," the official said.

Recently Apple took the unusual move of launching a 32-gigabyte iPhone 6 in the country, presumably to deal with its main problem in growing marketshare: price. Current-generation iPhones are well beyond the means of the average person, so Apple has been keeping devices on sale in India well past when they've disappeared in other regions. The company controls less than 5 percent of the Indian smartphone market.

An analyst with CMR, Faisal Kawoosa, noted that local manufacturing will let Apple get past import tariffs and could drop the cost of iPhones by $100 or more, finally making Apple competitive with other smartphone vendors already manufacturing in the country.

The Indian government, however, hasn't yet "accepted most of the demands of the iPhone manufacturer," Trade Minister Nirmala Sitharaman told legislators in a note to Parliament on Wednesday. Earlier this year Apple delivered a "wish list" of concessions, among them a 15-year tax holiday on imported components and equipment.

"We will try to accommodate as much of their [Apple's] demands as possible, but they too appreciate and understand our limitations," claimed another official described as working closely with Prime Minister Narendra Modi.

Apple is even reportedly negotiating for the next step in its production plans, which could see it bring in more suppliers to make parts and export finished iPhones. Currently, iPhones are manufactured and exported exclusively from China.

Apple has meanwhile been negotiating to open its first official stores in India. Normally foreign single-brand retailers are required to source 30 percent of their components locally, and its current trajectory could at last meet that requirement.
edred
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 39
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,036member
    Can't people understand that this isn't manufacturing, it's assembly. There's a difference. Manufacturing is actually the process of making parts, while assembly is just putting them together. Assembly is the lowest value part of manufacturing.
    longpathjony0
  • Reply 2 of 39
    Apple could theoretically setup an assembly line (via a local partner) in any country to appease any regulations like this. It's doesn't change the components or where they come from, just instead of shipping pre-assembled phones to India, they're shipping the parts individually and assembling them there. The cost of assembly shifts from China to India but it's undoubtedly cheaper overall, bypassing the import tariffs.

    They could do similar in the USA and have "Designed in California, Assembled in Texas" for example on the devices, pleasing many 'mericans.
  • Reply 3 of 39
    65026502 Posts: 86member
    Neither of which is done in the US, which is shameful. Even more so is Apple seems intent on offshoring their R&D work to China too. This is not the Apple I know.
    melgross said:
    Can't people understand that this isn't manufacturing, it's assembly. There's a difference. Manufacturing is actually the process of making parts, while assembly is just putting them together. Assembly is the lowest value part of manufacturing.
  • Reply 4 of 39
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,036member
    adm1 said:
    Apple could theoretically setup an assembly line (via a local partner) in any country to appease any regulations like this. It's doesn't change the components or where they come from, just instead of shipping pre-assembled phones to India, they're shipping the parts individually and assembling them there. The cost of assembly shifts from China to India but it's undoubtedly cheaper overall, bypassing the import tariffs.

    They could do similar in the USA and have "Designed in California, Assembled in Texas" for example on the devices, pleasing many 'mericans.
    No, they can't. Right now, phone assembly requires tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of trained assembly line workers, and hundreds to thousands of "line engineers", a position we don't even have here.
  • Reply 5 of 39
    I wonder how much of the work has to be done in India to could as "assembled in India" for tariff purposes.  Presumably it has to be something more than screwing the back onto an almost-complete iPhone. 
  • Reply 6 of 39
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,036member

    6502 said:
    Neither of which is done in the US, which is shameful. Even more so is Apple seems intent on offshoring their R&D work to China too. This is not the Apple I know.
    melgross said:
    Can't people understand that this isn't manufacturing, it's assembly. There's a difference. Manufacturing is actually the process of making parts, while assembly is just putting them together. Assembly is the lowest value part of manufacturing.
    Lord! We talk about this time and again. Apple, and others have explained this numerous times.

    its not shameful at all. It can't happen here. I really don't know what's wrong with you people. Do you believe that nonsense that Trump spouts? Assembly of phones is done in countries that are developing because American workers will never again work the way they do there. Around the turn of the 19th century to the 20th, we used to have workers live in barracks, buy exclusively from the company store, and send a bit of money home to their families. Mining companies were the last to do this kind of thing.it even inspired a famous song.

    this is the way it works in China, India, and a few other developing nations. People move hundreds, or even thousands of miles to move into a barracks where they have a single size bed with a foot locker, and a cabinet on the wall above the head board, and that's it. If the company needs 10,000 workers late Saturday night, they go into the barracks and wake these people up and put them on the lines. They live that way, often for years.

    there is simply no way that workers in any developed country will ever do that again.

    i can't believe the total lack of understanding some people here, in this country, have about these matters. I just read a financial article that discussed the loss of manufacturing jobs in this country. 13% is due to trade deals, and a whopping 87% is due to automation. What jobs we lost to trade deals is mostly made up by jobs in import industries and distribution, but no jobs are gained, in any real numbers for losses due to automation. This ratio is going to get worse. Even if, somehow, these lines could be automated, and brought here, we would see virtually no job creation. But this is years off.
    longpathanantksundaram
  • Reply 7 of 39
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,036member

    sog35 said:
    melgross said:
    Can't people understand that this isn't manufacturing, it's assembly. There's a difference. Manufacturing is actually the process of making parts, while assembly is just putting them together. Assembly is the lowest value part of manufacturing.
    putting things together is part of manufacturing
    Manufacturing is making parts. Assembly is putting these parts together. It's the last stage only. It's not considered to be actual manufacturing. It adds virtually nothing to the value of the product. In the old days when I had my manufacturing company, assembly was a much more complex process. Not these days.
  • Reply 8 of 39
    65026502 Posts: 86member
    melgross said:

    6502 said:
    Neither of which is done in the US, which is shameful. Even more so is Apple seems intent on offshoring their R&D work to China too. This is not the Apple I know.
    melgross said:
    Can't people understand that this isn't manufacturing, it's assembly. There's a difference. Manufacturing is actually the process of making parts, while assembly is just putting them together. Assembly is the lowest value part of manufacturing.
    Lord! We talk about this time and again. Apple, and others have explained this numerous times.

    its not shameful at all. It can't happen here. I really don't know what's wrong with you people. Do you believe that nonsense that Trump spouts? Assembly of phones is done in countries that are developing because American workers will never again work the way they do there. Around the turn of the 19th century to the 20th, we used to have workers live in barracks, buy exclusively from the company store, and send a bit of money home to their families. Mining companies were the last to do this kind of thing.it even inspired a famous song.

    this is the way it works in China, India, and a few other developing nations. People move hundreds, or even thousands of miles to move into a barracks where they have a single size bed with a foot locker, and a cabinet on the wall above the head board, and that's it. If the company needs 10,000 workers late Saturday night, they go into the barracks and wake these people up and put them on the lines. They live that way, often for years.

    there is simply no way that workers in any developed country will ever do that again.

    i can't believe the total lack of understanding some people here, in this country, have about these matters. I just read a financial article that discussed the loss of manufacturing jobs in this country. 13% is due to trade deals, and a whopping 87% is due to automation. What jobs we lost to trade deals is mostly made up by jobs in import industries and distribution, but no jobs are gained, in any real numbers for losses due to automation. This ratio is going to get worse. Even if, somehow, these lines could be automated, and brought here, we would see virtually no job creation. But this is years off.
    We've had manufacturing in the US that didn't require barracks and other things you described; that was well over 100 years ago. The workers at Carrier and Rexnord, just 2 examples, didn't live in barracks; their jobs are now in Mexico so obviously automation didn't take them over. It comes down to greedy executives and greedy Wall Street. The biggest employer 25 years ago was GM - good paying skilled middle class jobs. Today the biggest employer today is Walmart - low skilled minimum wage jobs. We are tuning into a nation of MBAs, logistic managers and bean counters. I shutter to think what is going to happen with the next world war, will we have to beg China to make our planes and tanks since we have no skilled workers in the US to make them?

    And, I'd gladly pay a bit more for an iPhone made in the US but I'm sure Cook and crew would never risk lower their profit margin and therefore their bonus to have this happen. You are basically saying if slave labor cannot make our things then they just won't get made. That is the most shameful of all.
  • Reply 9 of 39
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,036member
    6502 said:
    melgross said:

    6502 said:
    Neither of which is done in the US, which is shameful. Even more so is Apple seems intent on offshoring their R&D work to China too. This is not the Apple I know.
    melgross said:
    Can't people understand that this isn't manufacturing, it's assembly. There's a difference. Manufacturing is actually the process of making parts, while assembly is just putting them together. Assembly is the lowest value part of manufacturing.
    Lord! We talk about this time and again. Apple, and others have explained this numerous times.

    its not shameful at all. It can't happen here. I really don't know what's wrong with you people. Do you believe that nonsense that Trump spouts? Assembly of phones is done in countries that are developing because American workers will never again work the way they do there. Around the turn of the 19th century to the 20th, we used to have workers live in barracks, buy exclusively from the company store, and send a bit of money home to their families. Mining companies were the last to do this kind of thing.it even inspired a famous song.

    this is the way it works in China, India, and a few other developing nations. People move hundreds, or even thousands of miles to move into a barracks where they have a single size bed with a foot locker, and a cabinet on the wall above the head board, and that's it. If the company needs 10,000 workers late Saturday night, they go into the barracks and wake these people up and put them on the lines. They live that way, often for years.

    there is simply no way that workers in any developed country will ever do that again.

    i can't believe the total lack of understanding some people here, in this country, have about these matters. I just read a financial article that discussed the loss of manufacturing jobs in this country. 13% is due to trade deals, and a whopping 87% is due to automation. What jobs we lost to trade deals is mostly made up by jobs in import industries and distribution, but no jobs are gained, in any real numbers for losses due to automation. This ratio is going to get worse. Even if, somehow, these lines could be automated, and brought here, we would see virtually no job creation. But this is years off.
    We've had manufacturing in the US that didn't require barracks and other things you described; that was well over 100 years ago. The workers at Carrier and Rexnord, just 2 examples, didn't live in barracks; their jobs are now in Mexico so obviously automation didn't take them over. It comes down to greedy executives and greedy Wall Street. The biggest employer 25 years ago was GM - good paying skilled middle class jobs. Today the biggest employer today is Walmart - low skilled minimum wage jobs. We are tuning into a nation of MBAs, logistic managers and bean counters. I shutter to think what is going to happen with the next world war, will we have to beg China to make our planes and tanks since we have no skilled workers in the US to make them?

    And, I'd gladly pay a bit more for an iPhone made in the US but I'm sure Cook and crew would never risk lower their profit margin and therefore their bonus to have this happen. You are basically saying if slave labor cannot make our things then they just won't get made. That is the most shameful of all.
    Yeah, just believe that garbage. GM, and other large companies in the auto industry have problems because when compared to cars made by no USA owned companies, their cars stink. All of those foreign owned car manufacturers who make cars hers, and it's a considerable number, make better cars. It's really that simple. I know a lot of people who will never buy a USA owned car makers cars.

    the biggest problem for USA made products is the american consumer. Honestly, how many people here have gone out of their way, over the years, to buy American made products when they cost more than the same thing made overseas? I'll bet, that if honestly thought about, none of you here can say that.

    you entirely missed my point. The barracks is where many manufacturing and mining people did live in back then. That's exactly the point. That's how manufacturers got cheap, controlled, labor. That hasn't happened for a long time here. But it's what is happening in developing countries now, and we can't compete with that.

    maybe if Carrier, and others, did have that kind of captive labor, they would stay here.

    the other thing is that those high paying manufacturing Jobs in the auto industry an steel industry were because of very strong unions. That's gone too with the assault on unions we see happening from conservatives. Most factory jobs in this country have never been high paying Jobs. That's a myth.

    Oh, I should add, it's not slave labor. These people take those jobs, because for those countries, pay and benefits are pretty damn good. They can leave when their contract is up, usually a contract is for a year. We have contracts like that here too.
    edited March 2017 longpathStrangeDaysanantksundaram
  • Reply 10 of 39
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,036member

    I wonder how much of the work has to be done in India to could as "assembled in India" for tariff purposes.  Presumably it has to be something more than screwing the back onto an almost-complete iPhone. 
    Please, assembly is literally that. It's not just screwing the back on. Nevertheless, assembly is estimated to only add $6-9 to the value of the manufacturing process - very little, in other words.

    but it's been estimated that it would cost about $20 to assembly them here, if we could, which we can't now. But every dollar added to the chain of costs adds more to the final price. It depends on how early it is in that process. So the phone price would rise by between $30 -40 if assembled here. That's way too much.
  • Reply 11 of 39
    65026502 Posts: 86member
    melgross said:
    6502 said:
    melgross said:

    6502 said:
    Neither of which is done in the US, which is shameful. Even more so is Apple seems intent on offshoring their R&D work to China too. This is not the Apple I know.
    melgross said:
    Can't people understand that this isn't manufacturing, it's assembly. There's a difference. Manufacturing is actually the process of making parts, while assembly is just putting them together. Assembly is the lowest value part of manufacturing.
    Lord! We talk about this time and again. Apple, and others have explained this numerous times.

    its not shameful at all. It can't happen here. I really don't know what's wrong with you people. Do you believe that nonsense that Trump spouts? Assembly of phones is done in countries that are developing because American workers will never again work the way they do there. Around the turn of the 19th century to the 20th, we used to have workers live in barracks, buy exclusively from the company store, and send a bit of money home to their families. Mining companies were the last to do this kind of thing.it even inspired a famous song.

    this is the way it works in China, India, and a few other developing nations. People move hundreds, or even thousands of miles to move into a barracks where they have a single size bed with a foot locker, and a cabinet on the wall above the head board, and that's it. If the company needs 10,000 workers late Saturday night, they go into the barracks and wake these people up and put them on the lines. They live that way, often for years.

    there is simply no way that workers in any developed country will ever do that again.

    i can't believe the total lack of understanding some people here, in this country, have about these matters. I just read a financial article that discussed the loss of manufacturing jobs in this country. 13% is due to trade deals, and a whopping 87% is due to automation. What jobs we lost to trade deals is mostly made up by jobs in import industries and distribution, but no jobs are gained, in any real numbers for losses due to automation. This ratio is going to get worse. Even if, somehow, these lines could be automated, and brought here, we would see virtually no job creation. But this is years off.
    We've had manufacturing in the US that didn't require barracks and other things you described; that was well over 100 years ago. The workers at Carrier and Rexnord, just 2 examples, didn't live in barracks; their jobs are now in Mexico so obviously automation didn't take them over. It comes down to greedy executives and greedy Wall Street. The biggest employer 25 years ago was GM - good paying skilled middle class jobs. Today the biggest employer today is Walmart - low skilled minimum wage jobs. We are tuning into a nation of MBAs, logistic managers and bean counters. I shutter to think what is going to happen with the next world war, will we have to beg China to make our planes and tanks since we have no skilled workers in the US to make them?

    And, I'd gladly pay a bit more for an iPhone made in the US but I'm sure Cook and crew would never risk lower their profit margin and therefore their bonus to have this happen. You are basically saying if slave labor cannot make our things then they just won't get made. That is the most shameful of all.
    Yeah, just believe that garbage. GM, and other large companies in the auto industry have problems because when compared to cars made by no USA owned companies, their cars stink. All of those foreign owned car manufacturers who make cars hers, and it's a considerable number, make better cars. It's really that simple. I know a lot of people who will never buy a USA owned car makers cars.

    the biggest problem for USA made products is the american consumer. Honestly, how many people here have gone out of their way, over the years, to buy American made products when they cost more than the same thing made overseas? I'll bet, that if honestly thought about, none of you here can say that.

    you entirely missed my point. The barracks is where many manufacturing and mining people did live in back then. That's exactly the point. That's how manufacturers got cheap, controlled, labor. That hasn't happened for a long time here. But it's what is happening in developing countries now, and we can't compete with that.

    maybe if Carrier, and others, did have that kind of captive labor, they would stay here.

    the other thing is that those high paying manufacturing Jobs in the auto industry an steel industry were because of very strong unions. That's gone too with the assault on unions we see happening from conservatives. Most factory jobs in this country have never been high paying Jobs. That's a myth.

    Oh, I should add, it's not slave labor. These people take those jobs, because for those countries, pay and benefits are pretty damn good. They can leave when their contract is up, usually a contract is for a year. We have contracts like that here too.
    You can believe your garbage and I'll believe mine. MAny of these manufacturing jobs paid $50k+ which is a good amount in middle America ("The average wage at the Rexnord plant is about $25 an hour, Hugunin said." http://www.newsmax.com/Finance/StreetTalk/Rexnord-Indianapolis-job-cuts-industrials/2016/10/17/id/753782/). And, you are proving my point, this is slave labor; the alternative is they don't work at all and have no place to live or eat, of course they are not going to leave. Finally, the unions have been destroyed by corruption and by democrats with the lousy free trade agreements (e.g. look at UCSF layoff off 100's of IT employees so they can hire Indian techs, this was decided by Janet Napolitano, a member of Obama's cabinet). Why do you think most union employees voted for Trump?
    mac_128
  • Reply 12 of 39
    tzeshantzeshan Posts: 1,749member
    6502 said:
    melgross said:

    6502 said:
    Neither of which is done in the US, which is shameful. Even more so is Apple seems intent on offshoring their R&D work to China too. This is not the Apple I know.
    melgross said:
    Can't people understand that this isn't manufacturing, it's assembly. There's a difference. Manufacturing is actually the process of making parts, while assembly is just putting them together. Assembly is the lowest value part of manufacturing.
    Lord! We talk about this time and again. Apple, and others have explained this numerous times.

    its not shameful at all. It can't happen here. I really don't know what's wrong with you people. Do you believe that nonsense that Trump spouts? Assembly of phones is done in countries that are developing because American workers will never again work the way they do there. Around the turn of the 19th century to the 20th, we used to have workers live in barracks, buy exclusively from the company store, and send a bit of money home to their families. Mining companies were the last to do this kind of thing.it even inspired a famous song.

    this is the way it works in China, India, and a few other developing nations. People move hundreds, or even thousands of miles to move into a barracks where they have a single size bed with a foot locker, and a cabinet on the wall above the head board, and that's it. If the company needs 10,000 workers late Saturday night, they go into the barracks and wake these people up and put them on the lines. They live that way, often for years.

    there is simply no way that workers in any developed country will ever do that again.

    i can't believe the total lack of understanding some people here, in this country, have about these matters. I just read a financial article that discussed the loss of manufacturing jobs in this country. 13% is due to trade deals, and a whopping 87% is due to automation. What jobs we lost to trade deals is mostly made up by jobs in import industries and distribution, but no jobs are gained, in any real numbers for losses due to automation. This ratio is going to get worse. Even if, somehow, these lines could be automated, and brought here, we would see virtually no job creation. But this is years off.
    We've had manufacturing in the US that didn't require barracks and other things you described; that was well over 100 years ago. The workers at Carrier and Rexnord, just 2 examples, didn't live in barracks; their jobs are now in Mexico so obviously automation didn't take them over. It comes down to greedy executives and greedy Wall Street. The biggest employer 25 years ago was GM - good paying skilled middle class jobs. Today the biggest employer today is Walmart - low skilled minimum wage jobs. We are tuning into a nation of MBAs, logistic managers and bean counters. I shutter to think what is going to happen with the next world war, will we have to beg China to make our planes and tanks since we have no skilled workers in the US to make them?

    And, I'd gladly pay a bit more for an iPhone made in the US but I'm sure Cook and crew would never risk lower their profit margin and therefore their bonus to have this happen. You are basically saying if slave labor cannot make our things then they just won't get made. That is the most shameful of all.
    You don't know the business Apple is in.  You don't know Apple's history.  In fact I think you use a Windows PC. If so you have no right to blame Apple. 
    longpath
  • Reply 13 of 39
    19831983 Posts: 1,101member
    That was quick!
  • Reply 14 of 39
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 5,596member
    6502 said:
    Neither of which is done in the US, which is shameful. Even more so is Apple seems intent on offshoring their R&D work to China too. This is not the Apple I know.
    melgross said:
    Can't people understand that this isn't manufacturing, it's assembly. There's a difference. Manufacturing is actually the process of making parts, while assembly is just putting them together. Assembly is the lowest value part of manufacturing.
    Why is it shameful? The parts are manufactured and sourced in China, why wouldn't the simplest thing being to assembly them there as well? Especially since most of the iPhone sales arent even in the US?

    This is a bit different than forging steel parts for building a car, which can originate domestically relatively easily. But we aren't going to be building a components manufacturing industry any time soon.
    edited March 2017 watto_cobra
  • Reply 15 of 39
    65026502 Posts: 86member
    tzeshan said:
    6502 said:
    melgross said:

    6502 said:
    Neither of which is done in the US, which is shameful. Even more so is Apple seems intent on offshoring their R&D work to China too. This is not the Apple I know.
    melgross said:
    Can't people understand that this isn't manufacturing, it's assembly. There's a difference. Manufacturing is actually the process of making parts, while assembly is just putting them together. Assembly is the lowest value part of manufacturing.
    Lord! We talk about this time and again. Apple, and others have explained this numerous times.

    its not shameful at all. It can't happen here. I really don't know what's wrong with you people. Do you believe that nonsense that Trump spouts? Assembly of phones is done in countries that are developing because American workers will never again work the way they do there. Around the turn of the 19th century to the 20th, we used to have workers live in barracks, buy exclusively from the company store, and send a bit of money home to their families. Mining companies were the last to do this kind of thing.it even inspired a famous song.

    this is the way it works in China, India, and a few other developing nations. People move hundreds, or even thousands of miles to move into a barracks where they have a single size bed with a foot locker, and a cabinet on the wall above the head board, and that's it. If the company needs 10,000 workers late Saturday night, they go into the barracks and wake these people up and put them on the lines. They live that way, often for years.

    there is simply no way that workers in any developed country will ever do that again.

    i can't believe the total lack of understanding some people here, in this country, have about these matters. I just read a financial article that discussed the loss of manufacturing jobs in this country. 13% is due to trade deals, and a whopping 87% is due to automation. What jobs we lost to trade deals is mostly made up by jobs in import industries and distribution, but no jobs are gained, in any real numbers for losses due to automation. This ratio is going to get worse. Even if, somehow, these lines could be automated, and brought here, we would see virtually no job creation. But this is years off.
    We've had manufacturing in the US that didn't require barracks and other things you described; that was well over 100 years ago. The workers at Carrier and Rexnord, just 2 examples, didn't live in barracks; their jobs are now in Mexico so obviously automation didn't take them over. It comes down to greedy executives and greedy Wall Street. The biggest employer 25 years ago was GM - good paying skilled middle class jobs. Today the biggest employer today is Walmart - low skilled minimum wage jobs. We are tuning into a nation of MBAs, logistic managers and bean counters. I shutter to think what is going to happen with the next world war, will we have to beg China to make our planes and tanks since we have no skilled workers in the US to make them?

    And, I'd gladly pay a bit more for an iPhone made in the US but I'm sure Cook and crew would never risk lower their profit margin and therefore their bonus to have this happen. You are basically saying if slave labor cannot make our things then they just won't get made. That is the most shameful of all.
    You don't know the business Apple is in.  You don't know Apple's history.  In fact I think you use a Windows PC. If so you have no right to blame Apple. 
    I am a huge Apple fan ever since I first saw a Mac Plus in high school in the late 80's. I've read every book on Apple and Steve Jobs that has ever been published starting with the great book "The Journey is the Reward". I live in Palo Alto and have been by Steve Jobs house many times before his death to maybe catch a glimpse of him and even tried to go there the day he died (the roads were blocked off). I loved Apple so much I bought stock in the company in high school and despite being advised otherwise held onto it throughout the rough 90's and have profited nicely from it. I bought more after the iPhone was announced and profited nicely from that too. I have never sold a share as I truly believe in what Apple does. My beef is not specifically with Apple but with the general outsourcing of our economy to cheaper nations just to save a buck and make Wall Street happy while at the same time destroying our way of life. This has been going on for 20-30 years; both democrats and republicans are to blame. 

    And, I buy exclusively Apple products (iMac, iPhone, iPad, etc) as they are the best for many reasons. I do use Windows at work but that is not by choice.
  • Reply 16 of 39
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 5,596member
    6502 said:
    tzeshan said:
    6502 said:
    melgross said:

    6502 said:
    Neither of which is done in the US, which is shameful. Even more so is Apple seems intent on offshoring their R&D work to China too. This is not the Apple I know.
    melgross said:
    Can't people understand that this isn't manufacturing, it's assembly. There's a difference. Manufacturing is actually the process of making parts, while assembly is just putting them together. Assembly is the lowest value part of manufacturing.
    Lord! We talk about this time and again. Apple, and others have explained this numerous times.

    its not shameful at all. It can't happen here. I really don't know what's wrong with you people. Do you believe that nonsense that Trump spouts? Assembly of phones is done in countries that are developing because American workers will never again work the way they do there. Around the turn of the 19th century to the 20th, we used to have workers live in barracks, buy exclusively from the company store, and send a bit of money home to their families. Mining companies were the last to do this kind of thing.it even inspired a famous song.

    this is the way it works in China, India, and a few other developing nations. People move hundreds, or even thousands of miles to move into a barracks where they have a single size bed with a foot locker, and a cabinet on the wall above the head board, and that's it. If the company needs 10,000 workers late Saturday night, they go into the barracks and wake these people up and put them on the lines. They live that way, often for years.

    there is simply no way that workers in any developed country will ever do that again.

    i can't believe the total lack of understanding some people here, in this country, have about these matters. I just read a financial article that discussed the loss of manufacturing jobs in this country. 13% is due to trade deals, and a whopping 87% is due to automation. What jobs we lost to trade deals is mostly made up by jobs in import industries and distribution, but no jobs are gained, in any real numbers for losses due to automation. This ratio is going to get worse. Even if, somehow, these lines could be automated, and brought here, we would see virtually no job creation. But this is years off.
    We've had manufacturing in the US that didn't require barracks and other things you described; that was well over 100 years ago. The workers at Carrier and Rexnord, just 2 examples, didn't live in barracks; their jobs are now in Mexico so obviously automation didn't take them over. It comes down to greedy executives and greedy Wall Street. The biggest employer 25 years ago was GM - good paying skilled middle class jobs. Today the biggest employer today is Walmart - low skilled minimum wage jobs. We are tuning into a nation of MBAs, logistic managers and bean counters. I shutter to think what is going to happen with the next world war, will we have to beg China to make our planes and tanks since we have no skilled workers in the US to make them?

    And, I'd gladly pay a bit more for an iPhone made in the US but I'm sure Cook and crew would never risk lower their profit margin and therefore their bonus to have this happen. You are basically saying if slave labor cannot make our things then they just won't get made. That is the most shameful of all.
    You don't know the business Apple is in.  You don't know Apple's history.  In fact I think you use a Windows PC. If so you have no right to blame Apple. 
    I am a huge Apple fan ever since I first saw a Mac Plus in high school in the late 80's. I've read every book on Apple and Steve Jobs that has ever been published starting with the great book "The Journey is the Reward". I live in Palo Alto and have been by Steve Jobs house many times before his death to maybe catch a glimpse of him and even tried to go there the day he died (the roads were blocked off). I loved Apple so much I bought stock in the company in high school and despite being advised otherwise held onto it throughout the rough 90's and have profited nicely from it. I bought more after the iPhone was announced and profited nicely from that too. I have never sold a share as I truly believe in what Apple does. My beef is not specifically with Apple but with the general outsourcing of our economy to cheaper nations just to save a buck and make Wall Street happy while at the same time destroying our way of life. This has been going on for 20-30 years; both democrats and republicans are to blame. 

    And, I buy exclusively Apple products (iMac, iPhone, iPad, etc) as they are the best for many reasons. I do use Windows at work but that is not by choice.
    Fair enough. But you should know then what Jobs said specifically to those points -- "These jobs aren't coming back." This was to Obama, I believe.
  • Reply 17 of 39
    melgross said:
    this is the way it works in China, India, and a few other developing nations. People move hundreds, or even thousands of miles to move into a barracks where they have a single size bed with a foot locker, and a cabinet on the wall above the head board, and that's it. If the company needs 10,000 workers late Saturday night, they go into the barracks and wake these people up and put them on the lines. They live that way, often for years.
    I am sorry but this is certainly not the way it works in India, in any factory setup. Trade unions are very strong in India and working conditions are generally above average. There are no 'barracks with a single size bed' etc. etc. or hordes of people waiting to be put on production lines. You are either misinformed or making wrong assumptions about India by equating it with China.

    edited March 2017
  • Reply 18 of 39
    tzeshantzeshan Posts: 1,749member
    6502 said:
    tzeshan said:
    6502 said:
    melgross said:

    6502 said:
    Neither of which is done in the US, which is shameful. Even more so is Apple seems intent on offshoring their R&D work to China too. This is not the Apple I know.
    melgross said:
    Can't people understand that this isn't manufacturing, it's assembly. There's a difference. Manufacturing is actually the process of making parts, while assembly is just putting them together. Assembly is the lowest value part of manufacturing.
    Lord! We talk about this time and again. Apple, and others have explained this numerous times.

    its not shameful at all. It can't happen here. I really don't know what's wrong with you people. Do you believe that nonsense that Trump spouts? Assembly of phones is done in countries that are developing because American workers will never again work the way they do there. Around the turn of the 19th century to the 20th, we used to have workers live in barracks, buy exclusively from the company store, and send a bit of money home to their families. Mining companies were the last to do this kind of thing.it even inspired a famous song.

    this is the way it works in China, India, and a few other developing nations. People move hundreds, or even thousands of miles to move into a barracks where they have a single size bed with a foot locker, and a cabinet on the wall above the head board, and that's it. If the company needs 10,000 workers late Saturday night, they go into the barracks and wake these people up and put them on the lines. They live that way, often for years.

    there is simply no way that workers in any developed country will ever do that again.

    i can't believe the total lack of understanding some people here, in this country, have about these matters. I just read a financial article that discussed the loss of manufacturing jobs in this country. 13% is due to trade deals, and a whopping 87% is due to automation. What jobs we lost to trade deals is mostly made up by jobs in import industries and distribution, but no jobs are gained, in any real numbers for losses due to automation. This ratio is going to get worse. Even if, somehow, these lines could be automated, and brought here, we would see virtually no job creation. But this is years off.
    We've had manufacturing in the US that didn't require barracks and other things you described; that was well over 100 years ago. The workers at Carrier and Rexnord, just 2 examples, didn't live in barracks; their jobs are now in Mexico so obviously automation didn't take them over. It comes down to greedy executives and greedy Wall Street. The biggest employer 25 years ago was GM - good paying skilled middle class jobs. Today the biggest employer today is Walmart - low skilled minimum wage jobs. We are tuning into a nation of MBAs, logistic managers and bean counters. I shutter to think what is going to happen with the next world war, will we have to beg China to make our planes and tanks since we have no skilled workers in the US to make them?

    And, I'd gladly pay a bit more for an iPhone made in the US but I'm sure Cook and crew would never risk lower their profit margin and therefore their bonus to have this happen. You are basically saying if slave labor cannot make our things then they just won't get made. That is the most shameful of all.
    You don't know the business Apple is in.  You don't know Apple's history.  In fact I think you use a Windows PC. If so you have no right to blame Apple. 
    I am a huge Apple fan ever since I first saw a Mac Plus in high school in the late 80's. I've read every book on Apple and Steve Jobs that has ever been published starting with the great book "The Journey is the Reward". I live in Palo Alto and have been by Steve Jobs house many times before his death to maybe catch a glimpse of him and even tried to go there the day he died (the roads were blocked off). I loved Apple so much I bought stock in the company in high school and despite being advised otherwise held onto it throughout the rough 90's and have profited nicely from it. I bought more after the iPhone was announced and profited nicely from that too. I have never sold a share as I truly believe in what Apple does. My beef is not specifically with Apple but with the general outsourcing of our economy to cheaper nations just to save a buck and make Wall Street happy while at the same time destroying our way of life. This has been going on for 20-30 years; both democrats and republicans are to blame. 

    And, I buy exclusively Apple products (iMac, iPhone, iPad, etc) as they are the best for many reasons. I do use Windows at work but that is not by choice.
    If so, why can't you understand the cut throat business Apple is in? 
  • Reply 19 of 39
    65026502 Posts: 86member
    tzeshan said:
    6502 said:
    tzeshan said:
    6502 said:
    melgross said:

    6502 said:
    Neither of which is done in the US, which is shameful. Even more so is Apple seems intent on offshoring their R&D work to China too. This is not the Apple I know.
    melgross said:
    Can't people understand that this isn't manufacturing, it's assembly. There's a difference. Manufacturing is actually the process of making parts, while assembly is just putting them together. Assembly is the lowest value part of manufacturing.
    Lord! We talk about this time and again. Apple, and others have explained this numerous times.

    its not shameful at all. It can't happen here. I really don't know what's wrong with you people. Do you believe that nonsense that Trump spouts? Assembly of phones is done in countries that are developing because American workers will never again work the way they do there. Around the turn of the 19th century to the 20th, we used to have workers live in barracks, buy exclusively from the company store, and send a bit of money home to their families. Mining companies were the last to do this kind of thing.it even inspired a famous song.

    this is the way it works in China, India, and a few other developing nations. People move hundreds, or even thousands of miles to move into a barracks where they have a single size bed with a foot locker, and a cabinet on the wall above the head board, and that's it. If the company needs 10,000 workers late Saturday night, they go into the barracks and wake these people up and put them on the lines. They live that way, often for years.

    there is simply no way that workers in any developed country will ever do that again.

    i can't believe the total lack of understanding some people here, in this country, have about these matters. I just read a financial article that discussed the loss of manufacturing jobs in this country. 13% is due to trade deals, and a whopping 87% is due to automation. What jobs we lost to trade deals is mostly made up by jobs in import industries and distribution, but no jobs are gained, in any real numbers for losses due to automation. This ratio is going to get worse. Even if, somehow, these lines could be automated, and brought here, we would see virtually no job creation. But this is years off.
    We've had manufacturing in the US that didn't require barracks and other things you described; that was well over 100 years ago. The workers at Carrier and Rexnord, just 2 examples, didn't live in barracks; their jobs are now in Mexico so obviously automation didn't take them over. It comes down to greedy executives and greedy Wall Street. The biggest employer 25 years ago was GM - good paying skilled middle class jobs. Today the biggest employer today is Walmart - low skilled minimum wage jobs. We are tuning into a nation of MBAs, logistic managers and bean counters. I shutter to think what is going to happen with the next world war, will we have to beg China to make our planes and tanks since we have no skilled workers in the US to make them?

    And, I'd gladly pay a bit more for an iPhone made in the US but I'm sure Cook and crew would never risk lower their profit margin and therefore their bonus to have this happen. You are basically saying if slave labor cannot make our things then they just won't get made. That is the most shameful of all.
    You don't know the business Apple is in.  You don't know Apple's history.  In fact I think you use a Windows PC. If so you have no right to blame Apple. 
    I am a huge Apple fan ever since I first saw a Mac Plus in high school in the late 80's. I've read every book on Apple and Steve Jobs that has ever been published starting with the great book "The Journey is the Reward". I live in Palo Alto and have been by Steve Jobs house many times before his death to maybe catch a glimpse of him and even tried to go there the day he died (the roads were blocked off). I loved Apple so much I bought stock in the company in high school and despite being advised otherwise held onto it throughout the rough 90's and have profited nicely from it. I bought more after the iPhone was announced and profited nicely from that too. I have never sold a share as I truly believe in what Apple does. My beef is not specifically with Apple but with the general outsourcing of our economy to cheaper nations just to save a buck and make Wall Street happy while at the same time destroying our way of life. This has been going on for 20-30 years; both democrats and republicans are to blame. 

    And, I buy exclusively Apple products (iMac, iPhone, iPad, etc) as they are the best for many reasons. I do use Windows at work but that is not by choice.
    If so, why can't you understand the cut throat business Apple is in? 
    I fully understand the cut throat business Apple is in. But if India can say if you want to sell iPhones here you must make them here, why can't the US demand that as well? Apple wasted no time in building manufacturing capacity in India so they can sell them there. When India or China say jump, Cooks asks how high.

    And, that's like saying, 200 years ago, the cotton industry is a cut throat business, we need slaves to say competitive. It doesn't make it right.
  • Reply 20 of 39
    65026502 Posts: 86member
    6502 said:
    tzeshan said:
    6502 said:
    melgross said:

    6502 said:
    Neither of which is done in the US, which is shameful. Even more so is Apple seems intent on offshoring their R&D work to China too. This is not the Apple I know.
    melgross said:
    Can't people understand that this isn't manufacturing, it's assembly. There's a difference. Manufacturing is actually the process of making parts, while assembly is just putting them together. Assembly is the lowest value part of manufacturing.
    Lord! We talk about this time and again. Apple, and others have explained this numerous times.

    its not shameful at all. It can't happen here. I really don't know what's wrong with you people. Do you believe that nonsense that Trump spouts? Assembly of phones is done in countries that are developing because American workers will never again work the way they do there. Around the turn of the 19th century to the 20th, we used to have workers live in barracks, buy exclusively from the company store, and send a bit of money home to their families. Mining companies were the last to do this kind of thing.it even inspired a famous song.

    this is the way it works in China, India, and a few other developing nations. People move hundreds, or even thousands of miles to move into a barracks where they have a single size bed with a foot locker, and a cabinet on the wall above the head board, and that's it. If the company needs 10,000 workers late Saturday night, they go into the barracks and wake these people up and put them on the lines. They live that way, often for years.

    there is simply no way that workers in any developed country will ever do that again.

    i can't believe the total lack of understanding some people here, in this country, have about these matters. I just read a financial article that discussed the loss of manufacturing jobs in this country. 13% is due to trade deals, and a whopping 87% is due to automation. What jobs we lost to trade deals is mostly made up by jobs in import industries and distribution, but no jobs are gained, in any real numbers for losses due to automation. This ratio is going to get worse. Even if, somehow, these lines could be automated, and brought here, we would see virtually no job creation. But this is years off.
    We've had manufacturing in the US that didn't require barracks and other things you described; that was well over 100 years ago. The workers at Carrier and Rexnord, just 2 examples, didn't live in barracks; their jobs are now in Mexico so obviously automation didn't take them over. It comes down to greedy executives and greedy Wall Street. The biggest employer 25 years ago was GM - good paying skilled middle class jobs. Today the biggest employer today is Walmart - low skilled minimum wage jobs. We are tuning into a nation of MBAs, logistic managers and bean counters. I shutter to think what is going to happen with the next world war, will we have to beg China to make our planes and tanks since we have no skilled workers in the US to make them?

    And, I'd gladly pay a bit more for an iPhone made in the US but I'm sure Cook and crew would never risk lower their profit margin and therefore their bonus to have this happen. You are basically saying if slave labor cannot make our things then they just won't get made. That is the most shameful of all.
    You don't know the business Apple is in.  You don't know Apple's history.  In fact I think you use a Windows PC. If so you have no right to blame Apple. 
    I am a huge Apple fan ever since I first saw a Mac Plus in high school in the late 80's. I've read every book on Apple and Steve Jobs that has ever been published starting with the great book "The Journey is the Reward". I live in Palo Alto and have been by Steve Jobs house many times before his death to maybe catch a glimpse of him and even tried to go there the day he died (the roads were blocked off). I loved Apple so much I bought stock in the company in high school and despite being advised otherwise held onto it throughout the rough 90's and have profited nicely from it. I bought more after the iPhone was announced and profited nicely from that too. I have never sold a share as I truly believe in what Apple does. My beef is not specifically with Apple but with the general outsourcing of our economy to cheaper nations just to save a buck and make Wall Street happy while at the same time destroying our way of life. This has been going on for 20-30 years; both democrats and republicans are to blame. 

    And, I buy exclusively Apple products (iMac, iPhone, iPad, etc) as they are the best for many reasons. I do use Windows at work but that is not by choice.
    Fair enough. But you should know then what Jobs said specifically to those points -- "These jobs aren't coming back." This was to Obama, I believe.
    6502 said:
    Neither of which is done in the US, which is shameful. Even more so is Apple seems intent on offshoring their R&D work to China too. This is not the Apple I know.
    melgross said:
    Can't people understand that this isn't manufacturing, it's assembly. There's a difference. Manufacturing is actually the process of making parts, while assembly is just putting them together. Assembly is the lowest value part of manufacturing.
    Why is it shameful? The parts are manufactured and sourced in China, why wouldn't the simplest thing being to assembly them there as well? Especially since most of the iPhone sales arent even in the US?

    This is a bit different than forging steel parts for building a car, which can originate domestically relatively easily. But we aren't going to be building a components manufacturing industry any time soon.
    6502 said:
    Neither of which is done in the US, which is shameful. Even more so is Apple seems intent on offshoring their R&D work to China too. This is not the Apple I know.
    melgross said:
    Can't people understand that this isn't manufacturing, it's assembly. There's a difference. Manufacturing is actually the process of making parts, while assembly is just putting them together. Assembly is the lowest value part of manufacturing.
    Why is it shameful? The parts are manufactured and sourced in China, why wouldn't the simplest thing being to assembly them there as well? Especially since most of the iPhone sales arent even in the US?

    This is a bit different than forging steel parts for building a car, which can originate domestically relatively easily. But we aren't going to be building a components manufacturing industry any time soon.
    Most of Apple's sales are in the Americas (i.e. USA), next is Europe then China. India is just a blip. https://www.statista.com/statistics/382175/quarterly-revenue-of-apple-by-geograhical-region/

    We could build a components manufacturing industry if we wanted, we used to have many chip foundries until they were off shored. And, we hardly make steel anymore either.
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