Supply chain remains skeptical Apple can embed Touch ID fingerprint sensor into 'iPhone 8'...

Posted:
in iPhone edited July 2017
A list of 10 features that the "iPhone 8" will have -- or lack -- has been published by noted analyst Ming-Chi Kuo, who believes Apple will not embed a Touch ID sensor under the screen.




The list was provided to Street Insider by Kuo, an analyst with KGI Securities. The vast majority of the claims about the "iPhone 8" have already been reported by AppleInsider, but the lack of an under-screen Touch ID sensor stands out as contrary to many recent rumors about the device.

According to the report, the scan-through ability of the under-display fingerprint solution has "technical challenges." Additionally, the "overlayered panel module" has "weakened scan-through performance" as a result.

Other interpretations of the report claim that the analyst believes that there won't be a Touch ID sensor at all. However, the source does not say that, and only claims that the "virtual home button" in the screen won't support the technology.




But recent rumors from other sources including Apple's chip partner TSMC still suggest that the Touch ID sensor will be embedded in the screen.

The remainder of the report reiterated previous information previously promulgated by KGI Securities, like the OLED full-screen design with "notch," 3D sensing for facial recognition, fast charging through USB-C power delivery through the Lightning cable similar to that in the 12.9-inch iPad Pro, as well as a full availability of the "iPhone 8" later than that of the "iPhone 7s" and "iPhone 7s Plus."

Kuo has a decent track record predicting Apple's future moves and hardware, but missed the iMac updates launched at the company's Worldwide Developers Conference in June.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 41
    zimmermannzimmermann Posts: 222member
    Well, clearly the first mockup included in the article doesn't picture the right thing. It doesn't show a home button on the screen. The second shows a gray dot, will that be it?
  • Reply 2 of 41
    saltyzipsaltyzip Posts: 193member
    Dare I say it, but with Samsung's screen expertise one would assume they would be first to market with this this tech. From the finger print demo in Qualcomms solution, the sensor was slow to operate.
  • Reply 3 of 41
    vlscoutvlscout Posts: 32member
    Isn't Qualcomm already offering the ultrasound under-display fingerprint reader tech for sale, as AI reported? So if Apple cannot manage on their own, they can always just buy it from Qualcomm, at a hefty price undoubtedly and unfortunately. But better than putting the reader on the back...
  • Reply 4 of 41
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 4,868administrator
    vlscout said:
    Isn't Qualcomm already offering the ultrasound under-display fingerprint reader tech for sale, as AI reported? So if Apple cannot manage on their own, they can always just buy it from Qualcomm, at a hefty price undoubtedly and unfortunately. But better than putting the reader on the back...
    No. As reported, the current iteration of the technology doesn't do though screens. The next, expected in the summer of 2018, does, but won't even be sampling until January of February
    tmaysergioz
  • Reply 5 of 41
    metrixmetrix Posts: 253member
    Demonstrating this capability is stupidly different than putting that functionality in 60 million devices and having it work consistently without fail. After the Samsung melt down, Apple is not likely to want to throw this out there and hope it works. 
    StrangeDaysrandominternetpersonbdkennedy1002
  • Reply 6 of 41
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 4,762member
    If ol' "Well-Connected" is wrong then how will he explain it?

    "A week before the release of the iPhone X, Apple finally managed to get Touch ID under the screen to work with 10% accuracy, which is why it is in the phone has a fully working implementation less than a week later, even though I originally said it wouldn't be included."
    longpath
  • Reply 7 of 41
    rogifan_newrogifan_new Posts: 4,187member
    No Touch ID no new iPhone for me.
    bdkennedy1002
  • Reply 8 of 41
    JinTechJinTech Posts: 392member
    Guess we will find out in a couple months. Hard to believe it's almost September!
  • Reply 9 of 41
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 8,538member
    No Touch ID no new iPhone for me.
    After all these years, you're still unwilling to acknowledge that whatever solution they present is most likely a very good solution worthy of evaluation and only then decisions on purchase. It's as if you pre-determine that whatever they do is going to suck, despite the fact that the new things Apple puts forward or does first or does better are things we don't expect and can't judge ahead of time until it's out there. 

    If there's no Touch ID, then whatever it has will be at least just as good if not better. Apple has shown this time and time again.

    "If it's not a faster horse I'm not buying it."
    edited July 2017 longpathmike1macxpressking editor the gratepatchythepiratemwhiteradarthekatfastasleepsuperkloton
  • Reply 10 of 41
    anton zuykovanton zuykov Posts: 1,040member
    Kuo has a decent track record predicting Apple's future moves and hardware, but missed the iMac updates launched at the company's Worldwide Developers Conference in June.
    That might be because he does not have his "informant(s)" working in that part of Apple supply chain.
    longpath
  • Reply 11 of 41
    JinTech said:
    Guess we will find out in a couple months. Hard to believe it's almost September!
    We'll probably start seeing Christmas decorations up in the stores next week.
  • Reply 12 of 41
    macplusplusmacplusplus Posts: 1,903member
    I think the tech is ready but Apple may not disclose it to anyone, supply chain, tester or whatever. Supply chain is the least credible of all sources and it may be the last to learn what it will look like. Apple has warned several times against supply chain digging: so they know something about that. They have enough power and resources to reshape and manipulate the supply chain. Now that all the industry will flock towards Qualcomm's project, why would Apple disclose its killer product instead of waiting for the industry reshape and finally crash around Qualcomm's project?

    Apple may have opted for OLED for one and only one reason: the thinness that would provide an extra layer for the embedded TouchID. Kuo will never understand that because of his duty of marketing OLED. No embedded TouchID, then no reason for OLED.
    edited July 2017 longpathmwhite
  • Reply 13 of 41
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 21,095member
    Rayz2016 said:
    If ol' "Well-Connected" is wrong then how will he explain it?

    "A week before the release of the iPhone X, Apple finally managed to get Touch ID under the screen to work with 10% accuracy, which is why it is in the phone has a fully working implementation less than a week later, even though I originally said it wouldn't be included."
    And if he's right how will you explain it? :) 

    Jus'kiddin'
  • Reply 14 of 41
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,874member
    No Touch ID no new iPhone for me.
    After all these years, you're still unwilling to acknowledge that whatever solution they present is most likely a very good solution worthy of evaluation and only then decisions on purchase. It's as if you pre-determine that whatever they do is going to suck, despite the fact that the new things Apple puts forward or does first or does better are things we don't expect and can't judge ahead of time until it's out there. 

    If there's no Touch ID, then whatever it has will be at least just as good if not better. Apple has shown this time and time again.

    "If it's not a faster horse I'm not buying it."
    There is just no way that anyone in their right mind would prefer a face scan to Touch ID. There are too many times where face scan would be a major problem. And that’s not talking about the giant step down in convenience.

    touch a finger for a fraction of a second to hold phone up to face, and do what? Press a button somewhere on the phone? What about the ease in which we've seen that fooled? How much more sophisticated could Apple’s be?

    somethings not right about the reporting here. I don’t mean your reporting, Mike. I mean the whole thing.
    edited July 2017 palominetmaypatchythepirateanton zuykovsuperkloton
  • Reply 15 of 41
    How would Apple Pay work without touch ID? I don't have an Apple watch but I understand it works without touch ID with the watch, but then the phone is in proximity of the watch, right?

    I would think Apple pay with no touch ID would be a step backwards, facial recognition could work but that still seems like a step back to me. 
  • Reply 16 of 41
    mike1mike1 Posts: 1,923member
    Rayz2016 said:
    If ol' "Well-Connected" is wrong then how will he explain it?

    "A week before the release of the iPhone X, Apple finally managed to get Touch ID under the screen to work with 10% accuracy, which is why it is in the phone has a fully working implementation less than a week later, even though I originally said it wouldn't be included."
    Today, he is only "noted" analyst. I think that's a step down.
  • Reply 17 of 41
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,874member
    Kuo has a decent track record predicting Apple's future moves and hardware, but missed the iMac updates launched at the company's Worldwide Developers Conference in June.
    That might be because he does not have his "informant(s)" working in that part of Apple supply chain.
    He has a good, but flawed record. There have been times when he predicted a feature, but said that it wouldn’t be in an upcoming product, but rather a later one, only to have it appear in that product after all.

    so I’m not so sure he’s right on this. It’s still too far away. Maybe at the end of next month we’ll know better.
    edited July 2017
  • Reply 18 of 41
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 4,180member
    Personally, if I had to bet on this I'd say the sensor behind the screen​ is ready for release but possibly in a low volume, extreme premium price bracket. There have been so many rumours on it that it would sway my decision.

    Btw, what happened with that patent from years ago about putting microscopic sensors between pixels over the entire screen surface? At the time the idea was for cameras. I wonder if they tried to take it in a different direction.
  • Reply 19 of 41
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 31,395member
    I'll not believe it when I don't see it.
    macky the mackyradarthekat
  • Reply 20 of 41
    maestro64maestro64 Posts: 4,656member

    First, Apple would not productize a feature unless they already proven it can work. so it not a matter of whether it works or not. It may be an issue of product yields. This is why Apple may have chosen to load a phone up with any many new feature that is can so they can charge $1000 limiting the number of customer buying the product so they can work out the product yield issue.

    The fact we keep hearing Apple is has technical issue get the technology to work make no sense. It would be like Apple introducing the first touch ID and it did not work any better than what had been seen in the past. or having the watch which the heart rate monitor was no better than then the stupid apps that measured your heart rate by using the camera and flash on the phone and putting you finger over both.

    Not to say Apple has not had miss steps, but the entire IOS products today are centered around the touch ID and the fact it works so well. As with the watch Apple most likely have been testing for years to make sure if they doing away with the physical button for touch ID it work and work as they expect. We know from patent filing Apple has been working on this idea for years. Remember Apple is not like Samsung, they do not rush ideas to market just to show they could do it and it does not work.

    The problem now, the rumor has been around for a long time, no one know for sure if through the screen touch ID is actually real or not, if it does not show up, people well say apple had issue, if it does show up then they all say they must have figured it out. there is a third case, apple never planned to have it in the first case. Non of us will know for sure until we see what they present even than no one know was the plan really was. The problem with Apple keeping secrete, unlike the competitor who tell great stories about what they plan to do, but never deliver or deliver something which is not what they said it would be. 

    radarthekat
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