Apple releases third developer betas of iOS 11, High Sierra, tvOS 11

Posted:
in iPhone edited July 2017
Apple has updated three of its developer betas including iOS 11, macOS 10.13 High Sierra, and tvOS 11, but left WatchOS 4 behind on beta 2, for now.




The macOS High Sierra update, with build number 17A306f, contains a number of refinements and other improvements like Apple File System integration, migration from H.264 to H.265, and Metal 2.

In the latest High Sierra beta, Apple enabled initial Time Machine support, and has added routines to AVKit for developers to allow users additional flexibility for content playback when multiple outputs are available. Additionally, some touch event processing modifications have been implemented, with enhanced timing for ignoring errant touches.

The second iOS 11 beta, has build number 15A5318g. Apple's tvOS beta is labeled as build 15J5324f.

Most of the iOS 11 fixes are under the hood, but a fix for connection issues for Bluetooth accessories using Wireless iAP protocol has been implemented. The "swipe up" to close an app gesture in the Control Center has returned.

The release notes for tvOS 11 are very short, with no immediately identifiable changes beyond repair of functionality of some third party media playback apps -- but DirecTV Now's periodic crashing in iOS 11 is not among them.

WatchOS 4 has been omitted this round, nor is a new version of the beta hinted at in the Xcode 9 beta, also released today.

Registered devices can get the new beta releases through the Software Update feature, while stand-alone images are available through Apple's Developers portal.

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 17
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,177member
    I really hope they squashed a lot of the iOS 11 bugs. I don’t remember that many in the initial public beta of iOS 10.
  • Reply 2 of 17
    Eric_WVGGEric_WVGG Posts: 454member
    It's made my iPad Mini (rev 2) nearly unusable. I pray this is due to lack of optimization and debugging, and not indicative of how it'll perform on older devices, ’cuz the current generation of Minis is just shite…
  • Reply 3 of 17
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,627member
    Eric_WVGG said:
    It's made my iPad Mini (rev 2) nearly unusable. I pray this is due to lack of optimization and debugging, and not indicative of how it'll perform on older devices, ’cuz the current generation of Minis is just shite…
    Right now i dont have a functionjng iOS device to run iOS beta on so dont feel too bad.   As for performance Mini is either important to Apple or it isnt, if it isnt performance will suck with the final release.  

    Personally im getting a little tired if the way Apple ignores a product line, avoiding updates, and then wondering why sales suck.  They need a change of attitude.  
    dysamoria
  • Reply 4 of 17

    So far, no probs on my 7Plus.

    3D Flyover (unguided, not the tour) seems to work much better.  I started in Tucson, looked around, then headed up I10 towards Phoenix.  Halfway there is Picacho Peak.  It is the top of an ancient volcano with half the dome blown away.  Picacho Peak is the site of the western-most battle of the Civil War.

    I was pleasantly surprised that Maps renders the topology of the natural landscape in 3D quite well -- not any man-made structures, though.

  • Reply 5 of 17
    MacProMacPro Posts: 17,735member
    It's a sign of the times when all the comments so far are about iOS not macOS / sigh
    macseekerdysamoria
  • Reply 6 of 17
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,380member
    MacPro said:
    It's a sign of the times when all the comments so far are about iOS not macOS / sigh
    To be fair, I believe that iPhone sales outnumbered Mac sales in their very first year, and Mac sales have never been better. But I, personally, would like to see more Mac-related stuff.

    For example, I've already tested beta 3 and I'm still having the Disk Utility and Safari issues I previous mentioned. Additionally, I still can't get HEVC videos to play despite the Release Notes saying it was now supported. Before Quicktime X would play the audio of the video with a white screen for the image, but now it says it can't play the file at all. However, I can load it in iTunes and it will play the audio, like with beta 2.
  • Reply 7 of 17
    rob53rob53 Posts: 1,933member
    Soli said:
    MacPro said:
    It's a sign of the times when all the comments so far are about iOS not macOS / sigh
    To be fair, I believe that iPhone sales outnumbered Mac sales in their very first year, and Mac sales have never been better. But I, personally, would like to see more Mac-related stuff.

    For example, I've already tested beta 3 and I'm still having the Disk Utility and Safari issues I previous mentioned. Additionally, I still can't get HEVC videos to play despite the Release Notes saying it was now supported. Before Quicktime X would play the audio of the video with a white screen for the image, but now it says it can't play the file at all. However, I can load it in iTunes and it will play the audio, like with beta 2.
    Don't believe we're supposed to talk about these beta releases but ....  On my 2011 MBP I am experiencing the common bug of the LCD backlight not turning back on after putting the MBP to sleep. Shining a light on the dark screen shows the running system but no way to get the LCD to turn back on without restarting. This is using the third public beta release so we're hoping the next public beta release has a fix or I doubt very many people will test it.
    dysamoria
  • Reply 8 of 17
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 5,851member
    wizard69 said:
    Eric_WVGG said:
    It's made my iPad Mini (rev 2) nearly unusable. I pray this is due to lack of optimization and debugging, and not indicative of how it'll perform on older devices, ’cuz the current generation of Minis is just shite…
    Right now i dont have a functionjng iOS device to run iOS beta on so dont feel too bad.   As for performance Mini is either important to Apple or it isnt, if it isnt performance will suck with the final release.  

    Personally im getting a little tired if the way Apple ignores a product line, avoiding updates, and then wondering why sales suck.  They need a change of attitude.  
    Who said they’re wondering why Mini sales aren’t great? I’d wager that’s why they aren’t updating it in a huge way. 

    As as for the Eric’s post, it hardly makes sense to complain about a beta OS slowing down your aged mini. It’s a beta, for beta testing. Even iOS 10 isn’t fast on a Mini 2.

    Beta 3 has fixed the safari bug with content blockers. And the Starz app works again. 
    edited July 2017
  • Reply 9 of 17
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 1,840member
    "*Initial* time machine support"??

    Why are they calling it a beta when it's still not feature-complete?
  • Reply 10 of 17
    MacProMacPro Posts: 17,735member
    Soli said:
    MacPro said:
    It's a sign of the times when all the comments so far are about iOS not macOS / sigh
    To be fair, I believe that iPhone sales outnumbered Mac sales in their very first year, and Mac sales have never been better. But I, personally, would like to see more Mac-related stuff.

    For example, I've already tested beta 3 and I'm still having the Disk Utility and Safari issues I previous mentioned. Additionally, I still can't get HEVC videos to play despite the Release Notes saying it was now supported. Before Quicktime X would play the audio of the video with a white screen for the image, but now it says it can't play the file at all. However, I can load it in iTunes and it will play the audio, like with beta 2.
    The 'sign of the times' was referencing exactly what you said.  I can still sigh though :)
     
    I can make HEVC with QT but so far only latest VLC play them (https://www.videolan.org/vlc/index.html).  BTW I just tried your suggestion of using terminal to zap an APFS SSD before CCC-ing a 10.12 from JHFS+to it and them converting to APFS rather than my Windows trick.  Half way there, here's hoping :)  Terminal is a two stage process, removing the container and its volumes then making the resulting SSD back into JHFS+!  What a to do ... Apple need to update the beta Disk Utilities to be more capable ASAP IMHO.
    edited July 2017
  • Reply 11 of 17
    MacProMacPro Posts: 17,735member

    rob53 said:
    Soli said:
    MacPro said:
    It's a sign of the times when all the comments so far are about iOS not macOS / sigh
    To be fair, I believe that iPhone sales outnumbered Mac sales in their very first year, and Mac sales have never been better. But I, personally, would like to see more Mac-related stuff.

    For example, I've already tested beta 3 and I'm still having the Disk Utility and Safari issues I previous mentioned. Additionally, I still can't get HEVC videos to play despite the Release Notes saying it was now supported. Before Quicktime X would play the audio of the video with a white screen for the image, but now it says it can't play the file at all. However, I can load it in iTunes and it will play the audio, like with beta 2.
    Don't believe we're supposed to talk about these beta releases but ....  On my 2011 MBP I am experiencing the common bug of the LCD backlight not turning back on after putting the MBP to sleep. Shining a light on the dark screen shows the running system but no way to get the LCD to turn back on without restarting. This is using the third public beta release so we're hoping the next public beta release has a fix or I doubt very many people will test it.
    10.13 is now out for public betas, there is no NDA for public releases is there?  If so my bad I just assumed there wasn't.  I don't discuss my developer beta experiences.

    I gave up testing on a 2010 MBP for now as it would not wake from sleep nor was there any brightness control. I'll revisit in a month or two when hopefully that's sorted.  Now I just test on more recent Macs.
    edited July 2017
  • Reply 12 of 17
    rob53rob53 Posts: 1,933member
    MacPro said:

    rob53 said:
    Soli said:
    MacPro said:
    It's a sign of the times when all the comments so far are about iOS not macOS / sigh
    To be fair, I believe that iPhone sales outnumbered Mac sales in their very first year, and Mac sales have never been better. But I, personally, would like to see more Mac-related stuff.

    For example, I've already tested beta 3 and I'm still having the Disk Utility and Safari issues I previous mentioned. Additionally, I still can't get HEVC videos to play despite the Release Notes saying it was now supported. Before Quicktime X would play the audio of the video with a white screen for the image, but now it says it can't play the file at all. However, I can load it in iTunes and it will play the audio, like with beta 2.
    Don't believe we're supposed to talk about these beta releases but ....  On my 2011 MBP I am experiencing the common bug of the LCD backlight not turning back on after putting the MBP to sleep. Shining a light on the dark screen shows the running system but no way to get the LCD to turn back on without restarting. This is using the third public beta release so we're hoping the next public beta release has a fix or I doubt very many people will test it.
    10.13 is now out for public betas, there is no NDA for public releases is there?  If so my bad I just assumed there wasn't.  I don't discuss my developer beta experiences.

    I gave up testing on a 2010 MBP for now as it would not wake from sleep nor was there any brightness control. I'll revisit in a month or two when hopefully that's sorted.  Now I just test on more recent Macs.
    I'm not the police and too many people have already talked about the beta releases but if you look at https://beta.apple.com/sp/betaprogram/faq Apple's Beta Software Program, you'll see the following:

    Is the public beta software confidential?

    Yes, the public beta software is Apple confidential information. Don’t install the public beta software on any systems you don't directly control or that you share with others. Don’t blog, post screen shots, tweet, or publicly post information about the public beta software, and don't discuss the public beta software with or demonstrate it to others who are not in the Apple Beta Software Program. If Apple has publicly disclosed technical information about the public beta software, it is no longer considered confidential. 

    It's very difficult to really know what Apple has disclosed and what they haven't. Since it's free to join the public beta software program, I don't see how Apple can control this. We're not divulging anything about the code only what works and what currently doesn't.
  • Reply 13 of 17
    MacProMacPro Posts: 17,735member
    rob53 said:
    MacPro said:

    rob53 said:
    Soli said:
    MacPro said:
    It's a sign of the times when all the comments so far are about iOS not macOS / sigh
    To be fair, I believe that iPhone sales outnumbered Mac sales in their very first year, and Mac sales have never been better. But I, personally, would like to see more Mac-related stuff.

    For example, I've already tested beta 3 and I'm still having the Disk Utility and Safari issues I previous mentioned. Additionally, I still can't get HEVC videos to play despite the Release Notes saying it was now supported. Before Quicktime X would play the audio of the video with a white screen for the image, but now it says it can't play the file at all. However, I can load it in iTunes and it will play the audio, like with beta 2.
    Don't believe we're supposed to talk about these beta releases but ....  On my 2011 MBP I am experiencing the common bug of the LCD backlight not turning back on after putting the MBP to sleep. Shining a light on the dark screen shows the running system but no way to get the LCD to turn back on without restarting. This is using the third public beta release so we're hoping the next public beta release has a fix or I doubt very many people will test it.
    10.13 is now out for public betas, there is no NDA for public releases is there?  If so my bad I just assumed there wasn't.  I don't discuss my developer beta experiences.

    I gave up testing on a 2010 MBP for now as it would not wake from sleep nor was there any brightness control. I'll revisit in a month or two when hopefully that's sorted.  Now I just test on more recent Macs.
    I'm not the police and too many people have already talked about the beta releases but if you look at https://beta.apple.com/sp/betaprogram/faq Apple's Beta Software Program, you'll see the following:

    Is the public beta software confidential?

    Yes, the public beta software is Apple confidential information. Don’t install the public beta software on any systems you don't directly control or that you share with others. Don’t blog, post screen shots, tweet, or publicly post information about the public beta software, and don't discuss the public beta software with or demonstrate it to others who are not in the Apple Beta Software Program. If Apple has publicly disclosed technical information about the public beta software, it is no longer considered confidential. 

    It's very difficult to really know what Apple has disclosed and what they haven't. Since it's free to join the public beta software program, I don't see how Apple can control this. We're not divulging anything about the code only what works and what currently doesn't.
    Never knew that, thanks.  As I have a developer account I obviously never got to see this NDA for the Public Betas program.  My assumption that it didn't have one was based on the fact the second a public beta is released AI, Mac Rumors and every Apple blog publish detailed and in depth articles with screen shots and tips and hints.  I have to say these are very useful since very little information id available even on the Developer web site and the forums there are full of folks with zero Mac knowledge and experience dolling out incorrect answers to questions just like the regular so called official Apple Support forum.

    On a side note I came  across a quirk last night.  My attempts to boot an an external SSD made by cloning an JHFS+ of my 6 Core Mac Pro's internal and then converting it to APFS failed every time to boot, my external tests were on a variety of USB3 docks, I tried them all and even zapped the PRAM in case my USB ports were corrupted ... then I had an idea,  I tried it on an external Thunderbolt Dock.  It booted right up no problem.  Tried again on USB3 and it just kept cycling the attempt but never booted. The irony is the clone and the conversion were all done on a USB3 dock.  A JHFS+ version of the same clone boot on USB3 or Thunderbolt.  This all brings back many experiences with external Windows boot disks that work on USB3 but rarely on Thunderbolt but do on occasions for some strange reason.  The world of UEFI specifications is somewhat of a mystery to me.  I think it uses a FAT32 partition even on Macs but I don't know about APFS, I somehow doubt that but I could be wrong.  Any experts here please educate me :) 
    edited July 2017
  • Reply 14 of 17
    rob53rob53 Posts: 1,933member
    On a side note I came  across a quirk last night.  My attempts to boot an an external SSD made by cloning an JHFS+ of my 6 Core Mac Pro's internal and then converting it to APFS failed every time to boot, my external tests were on a variety of USB3 docks, I tried them all and even zapped the PRAM in case my USB ports were corrupted ... then I had an idea,  I tried it on an external Thunderbolt Dock.  It booted right up no problem.  Tried again on USB3 and it just kept cycling the attempt but never booted. The irony is the clone and the conversion were all done on a USB3 dock.  A JHFS+ version of the same clone boot on USB3 or Thunderbolt.  This all brings back many experiences with external Windows boot disks that work on USB3 but rarely on Thunderbolt but do on occasions for some strange reason.  The world of UEFI specifications is somewhat of a mystery to me.  I think it uses a FAT32 partition even on Macs but I don't know about APFS, I somehow doubt that but I could be wrong.  Any experts here please educate me :) 
    Interesting comment on USB3 not booting HighSierra from an external drive. I tried the same thing using USB3 and it never listed APFS as an option for installation. It did boot but as HFS+. I tried this through my USB3 port on a late 2015 iMac (finally upgraded from my early 2009 iMac). I'll go back and try again connecting that USB3 drive through my Thunderbolt Dock and see if it lets me install APFS and boot. I have a DisplayPort adaptor to USB3/SATA for my 2011 MBP so I'm hoping the installer sees that as Thunderbolt-1. (Is this what you did or am I messing things up??)

    edited: Nope, this didn't give me the default formatting to APFS when trying to install. I guess I either need a newer Thunderbolt version or ???

    Not an expert but have a lot of previous experience. Here's what my MBP 2011 test Mac shows. It has an internal SSD SATA drive partitioned with a dedicated 64GB for HighSierra, which listed APFS as the default option when installing. The rest of the disk is configured with FV2 under Sierra. 

    Sierra FV2 EFI partition:

       Partition Type:           EFI
       File System Personality:  MS-DOS FAT32
       Type (Bundle):            msdos
       Name (User Visible):      MS-DOS (FAT32)

    High Sierra partitions as seen from Sierra (includes Sierra partitions as well): Not seeing any specific DOS-type partitions other than the EFI

    diskutil list
    /dev/disk0 (internal, physical):
       #:                       TYPE NAME                    SIZE       IDENTIFIER
       0:      GUID_partition_scheme                        *960.2 GB   disk0
       1:                        EFI EFI                     209.7 MB   disk0s1
       2:          Apple_CoreStorage Macintosh HD            896.0 GB   disk0s2
       3:                 Apple_Boot Recovery HD             650.0 MB   disk0s3
       4:                 Apple_APFS                         62.7 GB    disk0s4
       5:       Apple_KernelCoreDump                         655.4 MB   disk0s5

    /dev/disk1 (synthesized):
       #:                       TYPE NAME                    SIZE       IDENTIFIER
       0:      APFS Container Scheme                        +62.7 GB    disk1

    /dev/disk1s1 (internal, virtual):
       #:                       TYPE NAME                    SIZE       IDENTIFIER
       0:                APFS Volume HighSierra             +10.7 GB    disk1s1

    /dev/disk1s2 (internal, virtual):
       #:                       TYPE NAME                    SIZE       IDENTIFIER
       0:                APFS Volume Preboot                +19.4 MB    disk1s2

    /dev/disk1s3 (internal, virtual):
       #:                       TYPE NAME                    SIZE       IDENTIFIER
       0:                APFS Volume Recovery               +503.2 MB   disk1s3

    /dev/disk1s4 (internal, virtual):
       #:                       TYPE NAME                    SIZE       IDENTIFIER
       0:                APFS Volume VM                     +1.1 GB     disk1s4

    /dev/disk2 (internal, virtual):
       #:                       TYPE NAME                    SIZE       IDENTIFIER
       0:                  Apple_HFS Macintosh HD           +895.6 GB   disk2
                                     Logical Volume on disk0s2
                                     11F5431D-182D-4A8C-B929-92E8A7C2FD39
                                     Unlocked Encrypted

    I ran diskutil info /dev/disk1s# on all four and all of their Type (Bundle) were apfs.


    edited July 2017
  • Reply 15 of 17
    MacProMacPro Posts: 17,735member
    rob53 said:
    On a side note I came  across a quirk last night.  My attempts to boot an an external SSD made by cloning an JHFS+ of my 6 Core Mac Pro's internal and then converting it to APFS failed every time to boot, my external tests were on a variety of USB3 docks, I tried them all and even zapped the PRAM in case my USB ports were corrupted ... then I had an idea,  I tried it on an external Thunderbolt Dock.  It booted right up no problem.  Tried again on USB3 and it just kept cycling the attempt but never booted. The irony is the clone and the conversion were all done on a USB3 dock.  A JHFS+ version of the same clone boot on USB3 or Thunderbolt.  This all brings back many experiences with external Windows boot disks that work on USB3 but rarely on Thunderbolt but do on occasions for some strange reason.  The world of UEFI specifications is somewhat of a mystery to me.  I think it uses a FAT32 partition even on Macs but I don't know about APFS, I somehow doubt that but I could be wrong.  Any experts here please educate me :) 
    Interesting comment on USB3 not booting HighSierra from an external drive. I tried the same thing using USB3 and it never listed APFS as an option for installation. It did boot but as HFS+. I tried this through my USB3 port on a late 2015 iMac (finally upgraded from my early 2009 iMac). I'll go back and try again connecting that USB3 drive through my Thunderbolt Dock and see if it lets me install APFS and boot. I have a DisplayPort adaptor to USB3/SATA for my 2011 MBP so I'm hoping the installer sees that as Thunderbolt-1. (Is this what you did or am I messing things up??)

    edited: Nope, this didn't give me the default formatting to APFS when trying to install. I guess I either need a newer Thunderbolt version or ???

    Not an expert but have a lot of previous experience. Here's what my MBP 2011 test Mac shows. It has an internal SSD SATA drive partitioned with a dedicated 64GB for HighSierra, which listed APFS as the default option when installing. The rest of the disk is configured with FV2 under Sierra. 

    Sierra FV2 EFI partition:

       Partition Type:           EFI
       File System Personality:  MS-DOS FAT32
       Type (Bundle):            msdos
       Name (User Visible):      MS-DOS (FAT32)

    High Sierra partitions as seen from Sierra (includes Sierra partitions as well): Not seeing any specific DOS-type partitions other than the EFI

    diskutil list
    /dev/disk0 (internal, physical):
       #:                       TYPE NAME                    SIZE       IDENTIFIER
       0:      GUID_partition_scheme                        *960.2 GB   disk0
       1:                        EFI EFI                     209.7 MB   disk0s1
       2:          Apple_CoreStorage Macintosh HD            896.0 GB   disk0s2
       3:                 Apple_Boot Recovery HD             650.0 MB   disk0s3
       4:                 Apple_APFS                         62.7 GB    disk0s4
       5:       Apple_KernelCoreDump                         655.4 MB   disk0s5

    /dev/disk1 (synthesized):
       #:                       TYPE NAME                    SIZE       IDENTIFIER
       0:      APFS Container Scheme                        +62.7 GB    disk1

    /dev/disk1s1 (internal, virtual):
       #:                       TYPE NAME                    SIZE       IDENTIFIER
       0:                APFS Volume HighSierra             +10.7 GB    disk1s1

    /dev/disk1s2 (internal, virtual):
       #:                       TYPE NAME                    SIZE       IDENTIFIER
       0:                APFS Volume Preboot                +19.4 MB    disk1s2

    /dev/disk1s3 (internal, virtual):
       #:                       TYPE NAME                    SIZE       IDENTIFIER
       0:                APFS Volume Recovery               +503.2 MB   disk1s3

    /dev/disk1s4 (internal, virtual):
       #:                       TYPE NAME                    SIZE       IDENTIFIER
       0:                APFS Volume VM                     +1.1 GB     disk1s4

    /dev/disk2 (internal, virtual):
       #:                       TYPE NAME                    SIZE       IDENTIFIER
       0:                  Apple_HFS Macintosh HD           +895.6 GB   disk2
                                     Logical Volume on disk0s2
                                     11F5431D-182D-4A8C-B929-92E8A7C2FD39
                                     Unlocked Encrypted

    I ran diskutil info /dev/disk1s# on all four and all of their Type (Bundle) were apfs.


    I was only meaning the EFI being FAT nothing else.  I'd wondered if APFS has moved beyond that.

    Not that I'm sure but I suspect even with a TB2 to USB3 adapter (I honestly didn't know such a thing existed!)  you'd still have a USB3 dock and USB protocols to deal with.  I am using the ludicrously over priced High Point dual Thunderbolt 2 docks for my tests as I have a Mac pro limited to TB2 (grrrrr.)  The USB 3 externals I use a wide variety of types and makes. some even a simple cable (USB3-SATA)  that works great on SSDs and costs <$9 on Amazon..

    I had USB3 happily booting APFS 10.3 beta 1 & 2 just not 3 but it maybe something my end.  I am testing all this from clones not virgin installations of 10.3 set up as APFS from the start, as if I do that I have to reinstall all my software to test hence a clone is far faster, but then I have to do a conversion to APFS after the fact, this issue I have maybe cloning related as CCC gets new betas and plays catch up (very quickly I might add as is Little snitch) or something I haven't thought of yet or heck even a bug!  lol.  

    As an aside, and you probably know this, if you want to zap APFS you just need to zap the container from Terminal, its volumes go with it. 
    edited July 2017
  • Reply 16 of 17
    rob53rob53 Posts: 1,933member
    MacPro said:
    rob53 said:
    On a side note I came  across a quirk last night.  My attempts to boot an an external SSD made by cloning an JHFS+ of my 6 Core Mac Pro's internal and then converting it to APFS failed every time to boot, my external tests were on a variety of USB3 docks, I tried them all and even zapped the PRAM in case my USB ports were corrupted ... then I had an idea,  I tried it on an external Thunderbolt Dock.  It booted right up no problem.  Tried again on USB3 and it just kept cycling the attempt but never booted. The irony is the clone and the conversion were all done on a USB3 dock.  A JHFS+ version of the same clone boot on USB3 or Thunderbolt.  This all brings back many experiences with external Windows boot disks that work on USB3 but rarely on Thunderbolt but do on occasions for some strange reason.  The world of UEFI specifications is somewhat of a mystery to me.  I think it uses a FAT32 partition even on Macs but I don't know about APFS, I somehow doubt that but I could be wrong.  Any experts here please educate me :) 
    Interesting comment on USB3 not booting HighSierra from an external drive. I tried the same thing using USB3 and it never listed APFS as an option for installation. It did boot but as HFS+. I tried this through my USB3 port on a late 2015 iMac (finally upgraded from my early 2009 iMac). I'll go back and try again connecting that USB3 drive through my Thunderbolt Dock and see if it lets me install APFS and boot. I have a DisplayPort adaptor to USB3/SATA for my 2011 MBP so I'm hoping the installer sees that as Thunderbolt-1. (Is this what you did or am I messing things up??)

    edited: Nope, this didn't give me the default formatting to APFS when trying to install. I guess I either need a newer Thunderbolt version or ???


    I was only meaning the EFI being FAT nothing else.  I'd wondered if APFS has moved beyond that.

    Not that I'm sure but I suspect even with a TB2 to USB3 adapter (I honestly didn't know such a thing existed!)  you'd still have a USB3 dock and USB protocols to deal with.  I am using the ludicrously over priced High Point dual Thunderbolt 2 docks for my tests as I have a Mac pro limited to TB2 (grrrrr.)  The USB 3 externals I use a wide variety of types and makes. some even a simple cable (USB3-SATA)  that works great on SSDs and costs <$9 on Amazon..

    I had USB3 happily booting APFS 10.3 beta 1 & 2 just not 3 but it maybe something my end.  I am testing all this from clones not virgin installations of 10.3 set up as APFS from the start, as if I do that I have to reinstall all my software to test hence a clone is far faster, but then I have to do a conversion to APFS after the fact, this issue I have maybe cloning related as CCC gets new betas and plays catch up (very quickly I might add as is Little snitch) or something I haven't thought of yet or heck even a bug!  lol.  

    As an aside, and you probably know this, if you want to zap APFS you just need to zap the container from Terminal, its volumes go with it. 
    I bought a Kanex Thunderbolt to eSATA and USB3 adaptor, http://www.kanex.com/products/item.aspx?id=5042 It's only TB-1 but my 2011 MBP only has USB-2 so getting eSATA and USB-3 speeds for external drives is a big benefit.

    I've just started to look at APFS and I found an article that mentioned ejecting the accessible APFS partition from Disk Utility but Eject wasn't viewable so it must have been from an earlier beta version. When you say "zap" do you mean delete/rm or do I use "diskutil erase"? Which device is the container? The main /dev/disk1 (synthesized) or one of the virtual slices? 


    /dev/disk1 (synthesized):
       #:                       TYPE NAME                    SIZE       IDENTIFIER
       0:      APFS Container Scheme                        +62.7 GB    disk1

    /dev/disk1s1 (internal, virtual):
       #:                       TYPE NAME                    SIZE       IDENTIFIER
       0:                APFS Volume HighSierra             +10.7 GB    disk1s1

    /dev/disk1s2 (internal, virtual):
       #:                       TYPE NAME                    SIZE       IDENTIFIER
       0:                APFS Volume Preboot                +19.4 MB    disk1s2

    /dev/disk1s3 (internal, virtual):
       #:                       TYPE NAME                    SIZE       IDENTIFIER
       0:                APFS Volume Recovery               +503.2 MB   disk1s3

    /dev/disk1s4 (internal, virtual):
       #:                       TYPE NAME                    SIZE       IDENTIFIER
       0:                APFS Volume VM                     +1.1 GB     disk1s4

  • Reply 17 of 17
    MacProMacPro Posts: 17,735member
    rob53 said:
    MacPro said:
    rob53 said:
    On a side note I came  across a quirk last night.  My attempts to boot an an external SSD made by cloning an JHFS+ of my 6 Core Mac Pro's internal and then converting it to APFS failed every time to boot, my external tests were on a variety of USB3 docks, I tried them all and even zapped the PRAM in case my USB ports were corrupted ... then I had an idea,  I tried it on an external Thunderbolt Dock.  It booted right up no problem.  Tried again on USB3 and it just kept cycling the attempt but never booted. The irony is the clone and the conversion were all done on a USB3 dock.  A JHFS+ version of the same clone boot on USB3 or Thunderbolt.  This all brings back many experiences with external Windows boot disks that work on USB3 but rarely on Thunderbolt but do on occasions for some strange reason.  The world of UEFI specifications is somewhat of a mystery to me.  I think it uses a FAT32 partition even on Macs but I don't know about APFS, I somehow doubt that but I could be wrong.  Any experts here please educate me :) 
    Interesting comment on USB3 not booting HighSierra from an external drive. I tried the same thing using USB3 and it never listed APFS as an option for installation. It did boot but as HFS+. I tried this through my USB3 port on a late 2015 iMac (finally upgraded from my early 2009 iMac). I'll go back and try again connecting that USB3 drive through my Thunderbolt Dock and see if it lets me install APFS and boot. I have a DisplayPort adaptor to USB3/SATA for my 2011 MBP so I'm hoping the installer sees that as Thunderbolt-1. (Is this what you did or am I messing things up??)

    edited: Nope, this didn't give me the default formatting to APFS when trying to install. I guess I either need a newer Thunderbolt version or ???


    I was only meaning the EFI being FAT nothing else.  I'd wondered if APFS has moved beyond that.

    Not that I'm sure but I suspect even with a TB2 to USB3 adapter (I honestly didn't know such a thing existed!)  you'd still have a USB3 dock and USB protocols to deal with.  I am using the ludicrously over priced High Point dual Thunderbolt 2 docks for my tests as I have a Mac pro limited to TB2 (grrrrr.)  The USB 3 externals I use a wide variety of types and makes. some even a simple cable (USB3-SATA)  that works great on SSDs and costs <$9 on Amazon..

    I had USB3 happily booting APFS 10.3 beta 1 & 2 just not 3 but it maybe something my end.  I am testing all this from clones not virgin installations of 10.3 set up as APFS from the start, as if I do that I have to reinstall all my software to test hence a clone is far faster, but then I have to do a conversion to APFS after the fact, this issue I have maybe cloning related as CCC gets new betas and plays catch up (very quickly I might add as is Little snitch) or something I haven't thought of yet or heck even a bug!  lol.  

    As an aside, and you probably know this, if you want to zap APFS you just need to zap the container from Terminal, its volumes go with it. 
    I bought a Kanex Thunderbolt to eSATA and USB3 adaptor, http://www.kanex.com/products/item.aspx?id=5042 It's only TB-1 but my 2011 MBP only has USB-2 so getting eSATA and USB-3 speeds for external drives is a big benefit.

    I've just started to look at APFS and I found an article that mentioned ejecting the accessible APFS partition from Disk Utility but Eject wasn't viewable so it must have been from an earlier beta version. When you say "zap" do you mean delete/rm or do I use "diskutil erase"? Which device is the container? The main /dev/disk1 (synthesized) or one of the virtual slices? 


    /dev/disk1 (synthesized):
       #:                       TYPE NAME                    SIZE       IDENTIFIER
       0:      APFS Container Scheme                        +62.7 GB    disk1

    /dev/disk1s1 (internal, virtual):
       #:                       TYPE NAME                    SIZE       IDENTIFIER
       0:                APFS Volume HighSierra             +10.7 GB    disk1s1

    /dev/disk1s2 (internal, virtual):
       #:                       TYPE NAME                    SIZE       IDENTIFIER
       0:                APFS Volume Preboot                +19.4 MB    disk1s2

    /dev/disk1s3 (internal, virtual):
       #:                       TYPE NAME                    SIZE       IDENTIFIER
       0:                APFS Volume Recovery               +503.2 MB   disk1s3

    /dev/disk1s4 (internal, virtual):
       #:                       TYPE NAME                    SIZE       IDENTIFIER
       0:                APFS Volume VM                     +1.1 GB     disk1s4

    Here you go, the Terminal commands:

    Unmount the disk in question (use Disk Utils or drag to trash)

    Run Terminal to get the disk identifier (type this after ~name~ <diskutil list> as you already know .....



    To remove the APFS Container and its volumes.


    diskutil eraseDisk apfs deleteContainer disk<your identifier>


    Go back to HFS+ Journalled


    diskutil eraseDisk JHFS+ <required disk name> disk<your identifier>

    edited July 2017
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