Russia approves VPN ban likely to kick apps out of Apple's App Store

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in iPhone
Russian President Vladimir Putin has signed off on a new law that will ban virtual private networks (VPNs) and other technologies enabling anonymous access to the Web, likely signaling an impending wave of removals from Apple's regional App Store.




The law will take effect Nov. 1, and is nominally geared towards blocking illegal content, according to TechCrunch. Because Putin and the Russian security establishment have increasingly clamped down on political dissent however, "illegal" content may include a broad scope.

The new policy appears even harsher than one instituted by China, which last week forced Apple to pull VPN apps there. The Chinese government is still permitting VPN services in the country as long as they obtain authorization.

Indeed Russia also beat China to passing laws requiring local user data to be stored on local servers -- while Chinese rules only recently took effect, prompting Apple to launch its first Chinese data center, Russia passed its legislation in 2015.

Apple has engendered controversy through its operations in both countries. In Western markets, the company regularly touts its positions on issues like privacy and LGBT rights, but in places like Russia it compromises those values to retain market access.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 21
    rob53rob53 Posts: 2,007member
    I can see China and Russia's demand for this because of their documented political views but the US better not see this as a justification to do it in a democracy. Our constitution allows freedom of speech and has other checks against our government making unreasonable demands of its citizens. Apple will need to make a corporate decision as to whether they want to continue to sell products in these countries or allow these countries to limit what Apple is allowed to sell. For China, Apple will have to allow them to restrict certain apps because they can't lose China as their primary manufacturing country. This is what the majority of companies have to deal with. China has become the largest manufacturing country in the world and I don't see companies like Walmart severing ties with them. On the other hand, China is starting to understand that they stand to lose a ton of money if they press too hard. Russia, on the other hand, is a meaningless economic country in the midst of continued failure. Apple "might" be able to drop them. People need to remember Russia is just one country in the former USSR, there are former member countries who are trying to be progressive.
    jbdragon
  • Reply 2 of 21
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,291member
    rob53 said:
    I can see China and Russia's demand for this because of their documented political views but the US better not see this as a justification to do it in a democracy. Our constitution allows freedom of speech and has other checks against our government making unreasonable demands of its citizens. Apple will need to make a corporate decision as to whether they want to continue to sell products in these countries or allow these countries to limit what Apple is allowed to sell. For China, Apple will have to allow them to restrict certain apps because they can't lose China as their primary manufacturing country.
    It's not the manufacturing that would be in danger. It's the very profitable sales of iPhone's and apps there that would worry Apple. China will happily allow Chinese companies to manufacture gear for Western techs and retailers whether they follow Chinese internet regulations or not. Money is welcome even if ideology isn't. 

    edited July 2017 SpamSandwich
  • Reply 3 of 21
    rob53 said:
    For China, Apple will have to allow them to restrict certain apps because they can't lose China as their primary manufacturing country. This is what the majority of companies have to deal with. China has become the largest manufacturing country in the world and I don't see companies like Walmart severing ties with them.
    China's days as the dominant manufacturing center won't last forever. That window is already starting to close. 
    anton zuykovSoundJudgmentjbdragon
  • Reply 4 of 21
    rob53rob53 Posts: 2,007member
    rob53 said:
    For China, Apple will have to allow them to restrict certain apps because they can't lose China as their primary manufacturing country. This is what the majority of companies have to deal with. China has become the largest manufacturing country in the world and I don't see companies like Walmart severing ties with them.
    China's days as the dominant manufacturing center won't last forever. That window is already starting to close. 
    What other country has the number of workers available, along with specialized natural resources, to compete with China? It sure isn't the US even with a bunch of robots.
    muthuk_vanalingamspheric
  • Reply 5 of 21
    fracfrac Posts: 480member
    So Putin and Russia are safe ground for pounding (-the former yes, the latter not so much imo)? but any discussion pertaining to US politics is not?
    This is getting silly.


    gtr
  • Reply 6 of 21
    mknelsonmknelson Posts: 310member
    Apple is doing the right thing by complying with the local laws. This way they can keep their products in the marketplace and the end users can have the secure communications and dissidents can move to the next available secure communication option.
  • Reply 7 of 21
    What happened to Tim Cooks lofty ideals? Between this and China Apple just lost 3 iPhone 8 orders.
  • Reply 8 of 21
    rob53 said:
    rob53 said:
    For China, Apple will have to allow them to restrict certain apps because they can't lose China as their primary manufacturing country. This is what the majority of companies have to deal with. China has become the largest manufacturing country in the world and I don't see companies like Walmart severing ties with them.
    China's days as the dominant manufacturing center won't last forever. That window is already starting to close. 
    What other country has the number of workers available, along with specialized natural resources, to compete with China? It sure isn't the US even with a bunch of robots.
    It's called gasoline and the US has more than rest
    of the world together.
    jbdragon
  • Reply 9 of 21
    The US better not pull this nonsense on Apple! We're constantly being told to "Use a VPN!! Get a VPN Tunnel to secure your WiFi activity!!" Then this comes along. Yet, China's makers can dump their cheap phone-imitations all over the Western shores with NO worries of being closed. Shame.
    edited July 2017
  • Reply 10 of 21
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 30,852member
    The US better not pull this nonsense on Apple! We're constantly being told to "Use a VPN!! Get a VPN Tunnel to secure your WiFi activity!!" Then this comes along. Yet, China's makers can dump their cheap phone-imitations all over the Western shores with NO worries of being closed. Shame.
    What the hell are you (and the other clown in this thread, above) going on about? There's nothing happening in the US suggesting VPNs are suddenly becoming a target.
    edited July 2017
  • Reply 11 of 21
    MacProMacPro Posts: 18,150member
    rob53 said:
    rob53 said:
    For China, Apple will have to allow them to restrict certain apps because they can't lose China as their primary manufacturing country. This is what the majority of companies have to deal with. China has become the largest manufacturing country in the world and I don't see companies like Walmart severing ties with them.
    China's days as the dominant manufacturing center won't last forever. That window is already starting to close. 
    What other country has the number of workers available, along with specialized natural resources, to compete with China? It sure isn't the US even with a bunch of robots.
    It's called gasoline and the US has more than rest
    of the world together.
    I'm trying to understand your comment.  I assume you mean oil, not gasoline and if so this would is the list of the top nations

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_proven_oil_reserves
     
    As you can see, the USA is indeed high up the list but a long way off having 'more than the rest of the world together.'  Or perhaps I am misunderstanding you. Are there vast gasoline storage tanks I am unaware of?
    spheric
  • Reply 12 of 21
    analogjackanalogjack Posts: 1,064member
    rob53 said:
    ...but the US better not see this as a justification to do it in a democracy...
    How is the electoral college system giving more weight to some voters' votes, 'democratic'? How is it democratic to disenfranchise minority voters' right to vote. How is gerrymandering electorates, democratic.
  • Reply 13 of 21
    sphericspheric Posts: 1,731member
    rob53 said:
    rob53 said:
    For China, Apple will have to allow them to restrict certain apps because they can't lose China as their primary manufacturing country. This is what the majority of companies have to deal with. China has become the largest manufacturing country in the world and I don't see companies like Walmart severing ties with them.
    China's days as the dominant manufacturing center won't last forever. That window is already starting to close. 
    What other country has the number of workers available, along with specialized natural resources, to compete with China? It sure isn't the US even with a bunch of robots.
    It's called gasoline and the US has more than rest
    of the world together.
    If that's all you got in terms of "manufacturing" (gasoline? "Manufacturing"? WTF?), no wonder Trump is scared shitless of renewables. 

    Now, taking you by your little word, "gasoline" is a product refined from oil, and the US has WAY too low capacity in refineries for even their own demand - every year at the beginning of road trip season in the US, euro gasoline prices jump as the United States has to buy European-refined gasoline in Rotterdam. 

    So allowing for the fact that you might just be ignorant of the difference between "oil" and "gasoline" and not just be rah-rahing patriotic bullshit, you might be talking about oil reserves...
    ...except that the USA are #10 (or #11, depending upon what you count as "confirmed") on the list of countries. They have about one TENTH the reserves of the #1 - Venezuela. 

    What the US has got "more than the rest of the world together" is a swaggering ignorance of any global reality. 

    At least, some of you seem to. 
  • Reply 14 of 21
    sphericspheric Posts: 1,731member

    rob53 said:
    ...but the US better not see this as a justification to do it in a democracy...
    How is the electoral college system giving more weight to some voters' votes, 'democratic'? How is it democratic to disenfranchise minority voters' right to vote. How is gerrymandering electorates, democratic.
    Gerrymandering IS a democratic tool, and can be and is used to rearrange things to allow accurate representation of groups that are numerous enough to warrant representation, but would fall through the cracks in straightforward geographic separation.
    There was a great video somewhere that explained this, and one of the examples was in Chicago (IIRC), where a large Hispanic population went unrepresented due to the fact that there was a large ethnically different population right in the middle, and the districts were separated right down the middle. Redistricting the Hispanic population into a U-shape, with the other group unified into their own district in the middle set up things a lot more fairly in local elections. 

    A tool for good, sadly probably more often used for evil. 
    edited August 2017
  • Reply 15 of 21
    jbdragonjbdragon Posts: 2,041member
    So really, want to use a VPN, no problem, get a Android phone and side load a VPN and problem solved!!! All this really does is kill iPhone sales. How many will want/try to jailbreak a iPhone? It's just easier to go Android. Same holds true with Encryption and backdoors. Apple may be able to do something about these things as they control everything, but that just means go to Android and use anything you want and there's not a thing Google can do about it. I don't think iPhone sales in Russia are that big just because of the price. I would think that sales would tank now. Same goes in China. You block VPN's, you will switch to Android to get that back. So the laws really didn't stop anything. It just killed iPhone sales even more.
  • Reply 16 of 21
    spice-boyspice-boy Posts: 742member
    rob53 said:
    For China, Apple will have to allow them to restrict certain apps because they can't lose China as their primary manufacturing country. This is what the majority of companies have to deal with. China has become the largest manufacturing country in the world and I don't see companies like Walmart severing ties with them.
    China's days as the dominant manufacturing center won't last forever. That window is already starting to close. 
    Wishful thinking, what information do you have to show this is happening? 
  • Reply 17 of 21
    spice-boyspice-boy Posts: 742member
    Apple is cozy in bed with China (its rulers) and will bow to all it's censorship demands. As much as I admire Apple Inc's progressive policies this one concession is in the wrong direction. 
    edited August 2017
  • Reply 18 of 21
    jbdragon said:
    So really, want to use a VPN, no problem, get a Android phone and side load a VPN and problem solved!!! All this really does is kill iPhone sales.
    Are you sure you know how VPNs work? You have to connect to a service. It's not a standalone thing. It's a simple thing to block the IP addresses to the VPN providers. In fact, that's exactly what China is ordering its ISPs to do. Without a service provider, you can load any VPN app you want, but it'll be useless.
  • Reply 19 of 21
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,209moderator
    Are you sure you know how VPNs work? You have to connect to a service. It's not a standalone thing. It's a simple thing to block the IP addresses to the VPN providers. In fact, that's exactly what China is ordering its ISPs to do. Without a service provider, you can load any VPN app you want, but it'll be useless.
    This is where a cloud system that uses containers would be very useful. People could setup their own personal VPN and countries could never block all of them.

    Like Amazon AWS or Azure but there would be no OS to setup, you'd just signup an account and the container would use a central managed OS. There would be a store of server apps. You could setup corporate email servers, VPN servers etc just by downloading the appropriate app into the container. Then you connect your device(s) to your personal servers. Better bandwidth, better privacy and not easy to block.
  • Reply 20 of 21
    Not every country in the world should succumb to neo liberalism where companies like Apple and Google tell the government how they should run. Freedom like everything else can be abused and exploited, and with all the mainstream media lies about Russia being a haven for foreign electioneering and hacking, it's no wonder why they want to implement laws which they can use well beyond mitigation. National sovereignty and culture is important for the well being for the generations of citizens that have lived in a country and shouldn't be torn down just because they don't allow others to come in to change and pillage the fiber of their society in the name of progress that has no moral continuity.
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