Questionable slide leak hints Apple abandoned rear-mounted Touch ID on 'iPhone 8'

Posted:
in iPhone
A suspicious video of an alleged Foxconn presentation suggests that Apple was at one point testing a rear-facing Touch ID sensor on the "iPhone 8," but later abandoned the idea.




Although the slides -- dated Aug. 14 -- do use the term "2017 iPhone" at one point, they typically refer to the phone by the codename "Cyclops," according to leaker Benjamin Geskin, who found the video on China's Baidu. It's not clear why the slides are in English, though it's possible that Westerners were present at an associated meeting or would need to see the information.

The Touch ID sensor is said to be referred to under the codename "Mesa," and in a slide talking about the Cyclops timeline, text snippets include "Cyclops -- ID Rear Touch Relocation" and "Cyclops DVT Kick-off delayed to fixture rework for Mesa cutout relocation and water ingress blocking issue."




The slideshow also suggests that because of delays, Foxconn was not expecting to ramp up "iPhone 8" production until August, something consistent with other claims of a late start. Apple's assembly partners normally kick into action by July to ensure a sizable number of launch units.

Project "Cyclops" (iPhone OLED) development history.

P.S. Mesa - code name for Touch ID.
Guy in the background keep saying "hurry up" pic.twitter.com/7zZ1afaJoK

-- Benjamin Geskin (@VenyaGeskin1)


The "Mesa" name previously appeared in a Weibo video showing the supposed testing of iPhones with rear-facing Touch ID. A number of parts and schematics -- possibly for prototypes -- were also once said to support that design, but most recent reports have indicated Apple is replacing Touch ID with 3D facial recognition.

The authenticity of the slideshow is suspicious, not the least because it would be relatively easy to fake. There's also no sign of facial recognition or whatever solution Apple may have come up with for Touch ID, given the phone using an edge-to-edge OLED panel with no space for a physical home button.

The final product is set to emerge at a Sept. 12 press event, where AppleInsider will provide live coverage.

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 15
    roakeroake Posts: 663member
    If no Touch ID, I will be sad.
    redgeminipawatto_cobra
  • Reply 2 of 15
    yeah, ….because who in their right mind, would put a Touch ID sensor, on the back of a phone.

    ….makes No Sense anywhere in the Universe!!!
    tmaylolliverwatto_cobra
  • Reply 3 of 15
    To quote Roger Murtaugh - "That's pretty f***ing thin." Given a "Mesa" is defined as "an isolated flat-topped hill with steep sides, found in landscapes with horizontal strata." How do we know they aren't just talking about changes to the Lens / Flash Assembly / Bump, that seems to stick out a bit like a "Mesa" on the current phones.
    fastasleepradarthekatRayz2016
  • Reply 4 of 15
    yeah, ….because who in their right mind, would put a Touch ID sensor, on the back of a phone.

    ….makes No Sense anywhere in the Universe!!!
    Or on the Side Power-Button!!
    macmcapple
  • Reply 5 of 15
    roakeroake Posts: 663member
    I honestly don't see how they could abandon Touch ID even if facial recognition was *flawless*.

    All the financial institutions that took years to learn to trust Touch ID are going to be thinking about that dude who fooled the Samsung facial recognition with his photo on another Samsung phone.  Facial recognition may be good, but it's going to take a while to prove it to Big Finance.

    Also, all this fuss about the police be able or not being able to force you to place your fing on the Touch ID is moot with facial recognition if there is no Touch ID backup.  They just point the damned phone at you and they are in.  If you are in jail, they can do it anytime they like.  It's passive on your part, not active.  They aren't forcing you to *do* anything.

    Sounds like a whole lotta bad idea to me.

    For those saying they have nothing to hide, well I do.  You're damned straight I have something to hide!   The constitutionally guaranteed privacy of my family.
    Rayz2016ninjablademasterymacplusplusredgeminipawatto_cobratallest skil
  • Reply 6 of 15
    roake said:
    I honestly don't see how they could abandon Touch ID even if facial recognition was *flawless*.

    All the financial institutions that took years to learn to trust Touch ID are going to be thinking about that dude who fooled the Samsung facial recognition with his photo on another Samsung phone.  Facial recognition may be good, but it's going to take a while to prove it to Big Finance.

    Also, all this fuss about the police be able or not being able to force you to place your fing on the Touch ID is moot with facial recognition if there is no Touch ID backup.  They just point the damned phone at you and they are in.  If you are in jail, they can do it anytime they like.  It's passive on your part, not active.  They aren't forcing you to *do* anything.

    Sounds like a whole lotta bad idea to me.

    For those saying they have nothing to hide, well I do.  You're damned straight I have something to hide!   The constitutionally guaranteed privacy of my family.
    I too do not understand the complete abandonment of Touch ID on their flagship device, given the market penetration it has in payments with Apple Pay and all the security concerns. 13 new banks have signed on to the platform recently. They're on a roll, and have been for a while.
  • Reply 7 of 15
    I don't doubt the authenticity of these slides at all, I've witnessed many similar meetings where there is a significant delay and the supplier has to explain to the buyer/client how and why it happened - also explains why it's in English. In my experience in the oil industry at least, the supplier can and will bullsh*t as much as possible to explain the delay but it will always be based on a truth/fact. That video ("mesa" rear touch id testing) posted a wee while back seems very real now.
  • Reply 8 of 15
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,324member
    adm1 said:
    I don't doubt the authenticity of these slides at all, I've witnessed many similar meetings where there is a significant delay and the supplier has to explain to the buyer/client how and why it happened - also explains why it's in English. In my experience in the oil industry at least, the supplier can and will bullsh*t as much as possible to explain the delay but it will always be based on a truth/fact. That video ("mesa" rear touch id testing) posted a wee while back seems very real now.
    Looks real to me too. Boring enough conference room, closed curtains for privacy, use of codewords. Also the water ingress was never mentioned before on any site but would make sense as a delay. 

    very stupid leak if so, that needed to be locked down, that room. 

    Also I think Apple need to move away from fall releases, or even one big release a year. A 5 week delay is bad enough but what if this were a 10-15 week delay? 
  • Reply 9 of 15
    At this point, the only thing we know for sure is that the rumor mills are utterly flailing and clueless. 

    I am hugely impressed by the tight, non-leaky ship that Cook is running. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 10 of 15
    At this point, the only thing we know for sure is that the rumor mills are utterly flailing and clueless. 

    I am hugely impressed by the tight, non-leaky ship that Cook is running. 
    This case manufacturer is 100% confident they have the right spec data on the iPhone 8: 

    No doubt they bribed the right people.
    edited September 2017
  • Reply 11 of 15
    The string canPerformMultiBiometrics discovered in the leaked HomePod code shows that at least one model will perform multiBiometrics (FaceID + TouchID). Otherwise why would Apple put an unimplemented feature in the code disclosing it unnecessarily? So the possibilities are:
    1) The OLED model will have multibiometrics, both TouchID and FaceID, LCD models with only TouchID
    2) The OLED model won't have multibiometrics, will have only FaceID, but the LCD models will have both TouchID and FaceID.
    3) All models (both LCD and OLED) will have multibiometrics, TouchID + FaceID

    There is no reason for Apple to not implement FaceID in LCD models. Since they will have inductive charging, they may also have FaceID as well. Since it is very unlikely that Apple will discontinue its best selling LCD models with bezels, at least in the near future, we may expect these models get the FaceID sooner or later.

    Also rumor was that all models are qualified with the moniker "8". An incremental update on the LCD models wouldn't justify the use of "8", only a significant update would deserve that, making multibiometrics on LCD models a closer possibility.
  • Reply 12 of 15
    yeah, ….because who in their right mind, would put a Touch ID sensor, on the back of a phone.

    ….makes No Sense anywhere in the Universe!!!
    You know what's even crazier? Moving on to a more advanced and convenient form of bio-metric security, like 3D infrared facial recognition. Because what company in the universe would want to update their flagship device with better, more advanced technology, amirite??

    The arrogance of some of these posts never ceases to amaze. Like you guys know better than the hundreds of engineers and designers working on one of the most important consumer electronics devices in history.
    edited September 2017 StrangeDays
  • Reply 13 of 15
    roake said:
    I honestly don't see how they could abandon Touch ID even if facial recognition was *flawless*.

    All the financial institutions that took years to learn to trust Touch ID are going to be thinking about that dude who fooled the Samsung facial recognition with his photo on another Samsung phone.  Facial recognition may be good, but it's going to take a while to prove it to Big Finance.

    And by "all the financial institutions" you mean yourself and the 50 other complainers who can't deal with change. If facial recognition has made it to final production then they have pretty much proved it works to everyone who matters.

    Apple will take facial recognition to the next level, just like they did with fingerprints, and everything will work just as it always did. With the benefit of not having to place your finger anywhere to get things accomplished.
    edited September 2017 StrangeDays
  • Reply 14 of 15
    roake said:
    I honestly don't see how they could abandon Touch ID even if facial recognition was *flawless*.

    All the financial institutions that took years to learn to trust Touch ID are going to be thinking about that dude who fooled the Samsung facial recognition with his photo on another Samsung phone.  Facial recognition may be good, but it's going to take a while to prove it to Big Finance.

    Also, all this fuss about the police be able or not being able to force you to place your fing on the Touch ID is moot with facial recognition if there is no Touch ID backup.  They just point the damned phone at you and they are in.  If you are in jail, they can do it anytime they like.  It's passive on your part, not active.  They aren't forcing you to *do* anything.

    Sounds like a whole lotta bad idea to me.

    For those saying they have nothing to hide, well I do.  You're damned straight I have something to hide!   The constitutionally guaranteed privacy of my family.
    I guess you haven’t been paying attention. 

    Apple’s facial ID is rumored to use sensors to prevent simple photos from spoofing it, unlike the crummy Samsung implmentstions. 

    Apple has implemented a fast way to disable biometric unlocking which puts the decision in your hands prior to any arrest. 
    edited September 2017
  • Reply 15 of 15
    igorsky said:
    yeah, ….because who in their right mind, would put a Touch ID sensor, on the back of a phone.

    ….makes No Sense anywhere in the Universe!!!
    You know what's even crazier? Moving on to a more advanced and convenient form of bio-metric security, like 3D infrared facial recognition. Because what company in the universe would want to update their flagship device with better, more advanced technology, amirite??

    The arrogance of some of these posts never ceases to amaze. Like you guys know better than the hundreds of engineers and designers working on one of the most important consumer electronics devices in history.
    If Apple did facial recognition on there new iPhone
    AWESOME!!!
    I agree with "onward and forward" employing advanced technology.

    My point is that Touch ID on the back of the phone, is NOT employing Advanced Technology.    ….its a dumb, half-assed, gimmicky kluging of technology
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