Apple, Google, others say Chinese investment regulations infringe on intellectual property...

Posted:
in General Discussion edited October 2017
A trade group representing a number of high-profile U.S. technology firms, including Apple, Google, and IBM, spoke out against Chinese regulations at an International Trade Commission hearing on Tuesday, saying the Asian country's rules help facilitate intellectual property theft.




In testimony on Tuesday, Erin Ennis, senior vice president of the U.S.-China Business Council, said China's regulations for foreign investments require some companies to transfer technology to Chinese entities, the South China Morning Post reports.

The rules, which are in some cases applied as a condition of doing business in China, could place "unreasonable and discriminatory burdens" on U.S. firms, Ennis said. She added that transfer requirements are "an acute concern of American companies in key sectors, who often must make difficult choices about managing the trade-off of technology sharing and access to the world's second-largest economy."

According to a separate report from Reuters, via Insurance Journal, Ennis said surveys of the U.S.-China Business Council's 200 members showed only a third had been asked to transfer technology under China's laws. An even smaller "minority" was forced to do the same without compensation.

Still, Ennis views the ruleset as a problem and encourages President Donald Trump's administration to challenge China's mandates. The White House has already tasked Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer to initiate an investigation into similar allegations under Section 301 of the U.S. Trade Act of 1974, a process that could end in tariffs or import restrictions.

Ennis cautioned against a heavy-handed approach, however, saying officials should encourage the country to remedy any remaining problems instead of taking unilateral action that could dampen burgeoning trade relations. Also on the table is a dispute settlement process that would be handled by the World Trade Organization.

As Reuters notes, Chinese commercial groups were also at the hearing and contend their country has made steady progress in crafting an IP enforcement system, an institution that did not exist prior to China's relatively recent rise as a modern economic powerhouse.

Trump is expected to discuss the IP issue when he meets Chinese President Xi Jinping in November.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 27
    China stealing IP...

    Is that even news worthy?

    In other news...  the sky is blue, except when it’s not.
    edited October 2017 jbdragontallest skilDavidAlGregorywatto_cobrajony0
  • Reply 2 of 27
    calicali Posts: 3,495member
    Why is Google in that list?

    Apple really needs to team up with IBM, integrate Watson with the new Siri a few of us know they are working on and completely destroy these scumbags.

    Siri could destroy Google if they get it right. 
    edited October 2017 lostkiwitallest skilwatto_cobra
  • Reply 3 of 27
    adm1adm1 Posts: 630member
    So long as china has what US companies want and need (cheap labour & epic manufacturing capabilities), they will impose whatever rules they like to benefit they're home grown companies and nation as a whole. I'm sure if the boot was on the other foot, Trump would be imposing similar rules on the Chinese. Can't cry about it when China wants to "make china great again". :trollface: 

  • Reply 4 of 27
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,279member
    This just highlights the stupidity of corporate management in the USA.   IP theft in China should surprise nobody and as a result there is one easy fix, don't manufacture in China!    It really is that simple.
    DavidAlGregory
  • Reply 5 of 27
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 17,786member
    cali said:
    Why is Google in that list?

    Apple really needs to team up with IBM, integrate Watson with the new Siri a few of us know they are working on and completely destroy these scumbags.

    Siri could destroy Google if they get it right. 
    Because Apple and Google interests are more aligned than their fans are. Neither would be as successful without the other. I have little doubt that Mr. Cook and Mr. Pichai meet on a regular basis to discuss mutual business interests. All this supposed hate between the two is an invention driven by the minority extreme-edge fans IMO. Neither company is out to destroy the other. They have too much in common, but they don't mind one-upping each other given the opportunity
    :)
    edited October 2017 muthuk_vanalingamjony0
  • Reply 6 of 27
    Well, if they don’t like the rules, they can just not do business in China.  Isn’t that what Americans always say about any injustice towards workers?  You can always quit and starve!  Let freedom ring!

    I say Ha Ha!
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 7 of 27
    aplnubaplnub Posts: 2,569member
    joogabah said:
    Well, if they don’t like the rules, they can just not do business in China.  Isn’t that what Americans always say about any injustice towards workers?  You can always quit and starve!  Let freedom ring!

    I say Ha Ha!

    Of course they can stop doing business in China. They can also talk like adults and see if they can come to some agreement that satisfies both sides and continue to do business in China. 

    Your response is just above the kindergarten level of maturity.
    StrangeDaysjbdragon
  • Reply 8 of 27
    calicali Posts: 3,495member
    gatorguy said:
    cali said:
    Why is Google in that list?

    Apple really needs to team up with IBM, integrate Watson with the new Siri a few of us know they are working on and completely destroy these scumbags.

    Siri could destroy Google if they get it right. 
    Because Apple and Google interests are more aligned than their fans are. Neither would be as successful without the other. I have little doubt that Mr. Cook and Mr. Pichai meet on a regular basis to discuss mutual business interests. All this supposed hate between the two is an invention driven by the minority extreme-edge fans IMO. Neither company is out to destroy the other. They have too much in common, but they don't mind one-upping each other given the opportunity
    :)
    Apple would be even more successful without IP theft. 
    patchythepiratewatto_cobra
  • Reply 9 of 27
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 17,786member
    cali said:
    gatorguy said:
    cali said:
    Why is Google in that list?

    Apple really needs to team up with IBM, integrate Watson with the new Siri a few of us know they are working on and completely destroy these scumbags.

    Siri could destroy Google if they get it right. 
    Because Apple and Google interests are more aligned than their fans are. Neither would be as successful without the other. I have little doubt that Mr. Cook and Mr. Pichai meet on a regular basis to discuss mutual business interests. All this supposed hate between the two is an invention driven by the minority extreme-edge fans IMO. Neither company is out to destroy the other. They have too much in common, but they don't mind one-upping each other given the opportunity
    :)
    Apple would be even more successful without IP theft. 
    Neither Apple nor Google is habitually found guilty of doing so are they? Not sure if you tallied up and compared the totals between them which has been found guilty of IP infringement more often (I guess that's the stealing you refer to) but I don't think there's a relatively large number of cases for either of them.

    Anyway, we should be careful about straying off-topic. Turning yet another thread into a Google distraction isn't terribly beneficial. 
    edited October 2017 muthuk_vanalingamjony0
  • Reply 10 of 27
    About time that the thus far supine American companies showed some bal.... backbone.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 11 of 27
    I maintain that China should’ve been kicked out of the WTO years ago for their unfair business practices including IP theft, product dumping, currency manipulation and their own government having stakes in most of their businesses (controlling or otherwise).
    anantksundaram
  • Reply 12 of 27
    maestro64maestro64 Posts: 3,889member

    The US just need to mirror China rules and laws for Chinese companies wishing to do business in the US. They can not sell in the US or to US company unless they set up a company in the US who is 51% owned by a US citizen and that Chinese companies has to assume all financial risks and they have to have real assess at risk in the US.

    Free trade is good as long as both sides follow the same rules, since China has proven they will not honor US companies or US rules we just mirror their rules. The US does not have to be the bad guy here and set up tariffs after things go bad or a US company is shut down because a Chinese company stole all the IP. If US companies have to follow Chinese rules in China, then Chinese companies must follow Chinese rules in the US.

    Congress just have to set up one law that saw all foreign companies wanting to have access to the US market must follow all the same rules their home country has in place for US companies wanting access to their countries market. This why the US never has to make any new rules and if other countries want their companies to do business in the US they will not put in place rules which keep out US companies.

    edited October 2017 lostkiwimuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 13 of 27
    adm1 said:
    So long as china has what US companies want and need (cheap labour & epic manufacturing capabilities), they will impose whatever rules they like to benefit they're home grown companies and nation as a whole. I'm sure if the boot was on the other foot, Trump would be imposing similar rules on the Chinese. Can't cry about it when China wants to "make china great again". :trollface: 

    Sure we can, because your fantasy scenario isn't the actual real-life one. We can't complain about fantasy worlds, only the real world. 

    If China is asking US corporations to give them the keys to valuable IP, that's a problem. China clones.
  • Reply 14 of 27
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 3,954member
    In wonder what IP Apple hands over to China?  I doubt Apple would give China the iOS source code, or would they?
  • Reply 15 of 27
    gatorguy said:
    cali said:
    gatorguy said:
    cali said:
    Why is Google in that list?

    Apple really needs to team up with IBM, integrate Watson with the new Siri a few of us know they are working on and completely destroy these scumbags.

    Siri could destroy Google if they get it right. 
    Because Apple and Google interests are more aligned than their fans are. Neither would be as successful without the other. I have little doubt that Mr. Cook and Mr. Pichai meet on a regular basis to discuss mutual business interests. All this supposed hate between the two is an invention driven by the minority extreme-edge fans IMO. Neither company is out to destroy the other. They have too much in common, but they don't mind one-upping each other given the opportunity
    :)
    Apple would be even more successful without IP theft. 
    Neither Apple nor Google is habitually found guilty of doing so are they? Not sure if you tallied up and compared the totals between them which has been found guilty of IP infringement more often (I guess that's the stealing you refer to) but I don't think there's a relatively large number of cases for either of them.

    Anyway, we should be careful about straying off-topic. Turning yet another thread into a Google distraction isn't terribly beneficial. 
    Says the person deliberately creating a false equivalency. Another gee-golly why can't we get along post, no doubt to be backed up by a series of technicalities and semantical loopholes. Spare us please. I think google copying/stealing the core concept of the modern smartphone (blackberry, then Apple) and the code used to run it (Oracle) constitutes a bit more than run-of-the-mill IP theft.

    BTW, I do appreciate and regularly "like" many of the informative posts you contribute.
    lostkiwiwatto_cobra
  • Reply 16 of 27
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 17,786member
    sflocal said:
    In wonder what IP Apple hands over to China?  I doubt Apple would give China the iOS source code, or would they?
    There was a story a couple years back that as a condition for being allowed to sell Apple products in China they had to submit the operating code for examination. The story at the time was that Apple complied, which is not the same as saying they "gave the source-code to the Chinese" tho since Apple reportedly insisted they be in the same room during the exam and no file copies of it would be offered. 

    A question I haven't yet seen answered is why Apple's iMessage is allowed to be used in China when all other encrypted messaging apps are now blocked (AFAIK) unless the vendor agrees to share the private keys with the Chinese government "for security purposes" as mandated by Chinese law. Quite recently WhatsApp refused and ended up blocked from China two months ago. Is iMessage a feature on Chinese handsets? Dunno for certain.
    edited October 2017 lostkiwi
  • Reply 17 of 27
    aplnub said:
    joogabah said:
    Well, if they don’t like the rules, they can just not do business in China.  Isn’t that what Americans always say about any injustice towards workers?  You can always quit and starve!  Let freedom ring!

    I say Ha Ha!

    Of course they can stop doing business in China. They can also talk like adults and see if they can come to some agreement that satisfies both sides and continue to do business in China. 

    Your response is just above the kindergarten level of maturity.
    No, it is an expression of the frustration of living in the groupthink of American "libertarianism" that routinely gives those kinds of responses to people complaining about corporate absurdities at work.  Surely you've experienced it too?  
  • Reply 18 of 27
    joogabah said:
    aplnub said:
    joogabah said:
    Well, if they don’t like the rules, they can just not do business in China.  Isn’t that what Americans always say about any injustice towards workers?  You can always quit and starve!  Let freedom ring!

    I say Ha Ha!

    Of course they can stop doing business in China. They can also talk like adults and see if they can come to some agreement that satisfies both sides and continue to do business in China. 

    Your response is just above the kindergarten level of maturity.
    No, it is an expression of the frustration of living in the groupthink of American "libertarianism" that routinely gives those kinds of responses to people complaining about corporate absurdities at work.  Surely you've experienced it too?  
    Libertarianism is about individualism, not groupthink... and why have you chosen to malign Libertarians, specifically?
  • Reply 19 of 27
    jbdragonjbdragon Posts: 1,579member
    It's China, all they do is copy everyone else on everything. In fact on many different products they make for company's. They'll make the higher priced American stuff, and then turn around and make exact cheap clones of the same thing after. Nothing is ever going to change. China is in it's own little world from everyone else in so many things.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 20 of 27
    jbdragon said:
    It's China, all they do is copy everyone else on everything. In fact on many different products they make for company's. They'll make the higher priced American stuff, and then turn around and make exact cheap clones of the same thing after. Nothing is ever going to change. China is in it's own little world from everyone else in so many things.
    Their entire economy is built on theft and fraud.
    watto_cobra
This discussion has been closed.