Intel combines Core with AMD Radeon on one package

tipootipoo
Posted:
in Future Apple Hardware
http://techreport.com/news/32792/intel-brings-a-core-cpu-and-radeon-gpu-together-on-one-package

Huh. Spitballing, Apple basically single handedly asked for Intels eDRAM GPUs, with the first Iris Pro 5200. They're still one of the Plus lines biggest users. Since Nvidia near doubled Intels performance per watt on graphics (mx150 beats the Iris 650 by double with similar wattage), I think it's very possible Apple pushed for this solution. 

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 14
    tenthousandthingstenthousandthings Posts: 1,036member
    Mac mini? The timing of Tim Cook's recent email response makes more sense in this light? 45W (Core-H series) seems perfect for that.

    According to Ars Technica, the Intel CPUs will retain their own integrated graphics as well -- Anandtech concurs.

    I don't get why most of these tech sites say iMac for this. Am I missing something? An Apple "gaming laptop" seems more likely: MacBook X? :wink: 
  • Reply 2 of 14
    tipootipoo Posts: 1,142member
    Mac mini? The timing of Tim Cook's recent email response makes more sense in this light? 45W (Core-H series) seems perfect for that.

    According to Ars Technica, the Intel CPUs will retain their own integrated graphics as well -- Anandtech concurs.

    I don't get why most of these tech sites say iMac for this. Am I missing something? An Apple "gaming laptop" seems more likely: MacBook X? :wink: 


    I don't see the iMac either - that has plenty of room for two seperate high wattage chips. 

    The Mac Mini would make sense if they ever updated that, and the 15" rMBP to shrink the size between CPU and GPU and add HBM2. Following that, a lower wattage version that can fit in the 13" would be amazing. 
    edited November 2017
  • Reply 3 of 14
    tenthousandthingstenthousandthings Posts: 1,036member
    Another fact worth noting is that these 8th generation Core-H series processors will support up to 32 GB RAM. As a result, it looks like we will have a 4-core Mac mini with 32 GB RAM and Radeon graphics by early 2018. There's no reason to wait, and Cook has already stuck his neck out. 

    What's more, the now official delay to the second half of 2018 for high-volume Cannon Lake production and support for LPDDR4 (i.e., 32 GB RAM in a true MacBook Pro) might make a "MacBook X" with 32 GB RAM more appealing to Apple? Still an emoji-worthy long shot :sunglasses:, but kind of intriguing.
    edited November 2017
  • Reply 4 of 14
    tenthousandthingstenthousandthings Posts: 1,036member
    I'm not going to start a new thread about this since I suspect AI will cover it now, but there have been further developments in this story. Yesterday Intel hired AMD's "chief GPU architect," Raja Koduri, who left AMD on Tuesday. Koduri has also worked at Apple in the past.

    According to Anandtech, Intel will re-enter the discrete GPU field "from top to bottom." The article argues that it basically means they are going after NVIDIA, starting with the high-end. Koduri's best experience is in integrated graphics -- that's what he did at Apple (think Retina).
  • Reply 5 of 14
    mattinozmattinoz Posts: 2,316member
    tenthousandthings said:
    Mac mini? The timing of Tim Cook's recent email response makes more sense in this light? 45W (Core-H series) seems perfect for that.

    According to Ars Technica, the Intel CPUs will retain their own integrated graphics as well -- Anandtech concurs.

    I don't get why most of these tech sites say iMac for this. Am I missing something? An Apple "gaming laptop" seems more likely: MacBook X? :wink: 
    Can't find a clear answer but does intels eGPU stay because it's the same die as the platform hub in the combined Hetrogenius package?

    If that is the case and Intel are basically saying come to us mix and match dies to build your own SoC for embedded devices.
    What is to stop Apple using an Ax as hub and prime graphics for Macbook, then extending with Radeon for the Pro's?
  • Reply 6 of 14
    tenthousandthingstenthousandthings Posts: 1,036member
    mattinoz said:
    Can't find a clear answer but does intels eGPU stay because it's the same die as the platform hub in the combined Hetrogenius package?

    If that is the case and Intel are basically saying come to us mix and match dies to build your own SoC for embedded devices.
    What is to stop Apple using an Ax as hub and prime graphics for Macbook, then extending with Radeon for the Pro's?
    The Intel Iris Pro "IGP" (integrated graphics processor) is a graphics processor integrated into the CPU -- it is manufactured on the same die. It doesn't need the new EMIB "Embedded Multi-Die Interconnect Bridge," since it is already part of the processor.

    Intel is using the EMIB to connect the discrete Radeon GPU (and its high-bandwidth memory) to the CPU. It would be beyond surprising [!] if you could get the EMIB without including an Intel CPU, but Apple could definitely use EMIB to integrate an A-series or other processor into the mix...
    mattinoz
  • Reply 7 of 14
    tenthousandthingstenthousandthings Posts: 1,036member
    In other news not really worthy of its own thread, Intel just announced 3D XPoint DIMMs will launch in the second half of 2018. There are still some questions (mainly about standards), but this probably means the new Mac Pro won't be here until "Late 2018." I'd still expect a serious teaser at WWDC, but that's it.
  • Reply 8 of 14
    mattinozmattinoz Posts: 2,316member
    tenthousandthings said:
    mattinoz said:
    Can't find a clear answer but does intels eGPU stay because it's the same die as the platform hub in the combined Hetrogenius package?

    If that is the case and Intel are basically saying come to us mix and match dies to build your own SoC for embedded devices.
    What is to stop Apple using an Ax as hub and prime graphics for Macbook, then extending with Radeon for the Pro's?
    The Intel Iris Pro "IGP" (integrated graphics processor) is a graphics processor integrated into the CPU -- it is manufactured on the same die. It doesn't need the new EMIB "Embedded Multi-Die Interconnect Bridge," since it is already part of the processor.

    Intel is using the EMIB to connect the discrete Radeon GPU (and its high-bandwidth memory) to the CPU. It would be beyond surprising [!] if you could get the EMIB without including an Intel CPU, but Apple could definitely use EMIB to integrate an A-series or other processor into the mix...
    Still if it means they get a Radeon GPU in to the 13 Macbook Pro then i'd be very happy about that. The 15 is just a bit big for lugging around and the 13spec's only look are on the lower end for cad. software I use. If they can do other cool things with this it'll be fun to see. 
  • Reply 9 of 14
    tenthousandthingstenthousandthings Posts: 1,036member
    Further information has come to light on this. It won't just be Core-H that gets this. Following part of the Xeon E5 series being renamed Xeon W (for "workstation"), the Xeon E3-1200 series is to be renamed Xeon E (for "entry-level"). Anandtech is speculating that Apple is involved here and there is a leak that suggests a Xeon E-21xx (parallel to the Xeon W-21xx used in the iMac Pro) could be among the first to appear with Radeon Graphics via EMIB.

    I still think this is likely to be for a Mac mini...

    It's worth noting that the HP Z2 Mini (competition for the Mac mini) used to offer the Xeon E3-1200 as one of its high-end options. Checking today, that is no longer the case -- the high end is currently Core i7-6700 or Core i7-7700. The only reason I'm aware of this is because of my sister's NYC architecture practice. There's a reason HP markets the Z2 Mini as "designed for CAD users." She uses Mac minis, but they are in need of an upgrade. Apple's semi-official assurances that the mini is not dead means she is waiting, but not so long ago she had me looking at the HP Z2 Mini as a possible option for her. It was either that or iMacs. Now we wait. Mac Mini Pro? Mac Pro mini?
    edited November 2017
  • Reply 10 of 14
    tenthousandthingstenthousandthings Posts: 1,036member
    mattinoz said:
    Still if it means they get a Radeon GPU in to the 13 Macbook Pro then i'd be very happy about that. The 15 is just a bit big for lugging around and the 13spec's only look are on the lower end for cad. software I use. If they can do other cool things with this it'll be fun to see. 
    Another facet of this is that the mobile Xeon E3-1500M (currently at v6, "Skylake-H") is also getting rebranded to Xeon E, with two listed part numbers: Xeon E-2176M/2186M ("Coffee Lake-H"). So a Xeon-E with Radeon Graphics MacBook Pro might be in the works, and your CAD-worthy 13" MBP could be part of that?
    edited November 2017
  • Reply 11 of 14
    tenthousandthingstenthousandthings Posts: 1,036member
    I realize only a tiny percentage of AI readers check the forums (or read comments at all), so few people will notice this thread. But seriously, no reactions to a possible "Mac mini Pro" !? Even if just to pooh-pooh the idea? [After all, Xeon E3 processors have been around for a long time, and Apple has never used them in the mini.]

    To me, EMIB feels like pretty big news, especially when combined with the Radeon announcement and the advent of "Xeon E." Anandtech is among the most careful of the PC tech sites, and if they keep saying "Apple" when they talk about these developments, that carries weight with me.

    Seems like maybe we have critical mass for an AI article? I just think it's pretty clear Apple has been waiting on some kind of technical development for the Mac mini -- EMIB fits the bill quite well.
  • Reply 12 of 14
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    I can see Apple trying to make a Mac Mini out of this using the Apple TV’s form factor, if only as an excuse to deny people more ports (throw two Thunderbolt 3/USB-C on the back and call it done. I can also see them continue to ignore the Mac Mini until they run out of stock and just discontinue it.
  • Reply 13 of 14
    mattinozmattinoz Posts: 2,316member
    tenthousandthings said:
    I realize only a tiny percentage of AI readers check the forums (or read comments at all), so few people will notice this thread. But seriously, no reactions to a possible "Mac mini Pro" !? Even if just to pooh-pooh the idea? [After all, Xeon E3 processors have been around for a long time, and Apple has never used them in the mini.]

    To me, EMIB feels like pretty big news, especially when combined with the Radeon announcement and the advent of "Xeon E." Anandtech is among the most careful of the PC tech sites, and if they keep saying "Apple" when they talk about these developments, that carries weight with me.

    Seems like maybe we have critical mass for an AI article? I just think it's pretty clear Apple has been waiting on some kind of technical development for the Mac mini -- EMIB fits the bill quite well.
    I could see such a mini being very popular in the hosted offices our clients are setting up these days. Deploy monitors on every desk, suppliment with small plug in workhorses and laptop as work demands require. Want people to move arrounds as teams adjust to suit changing demand then it's a very easy fix.
  • Reply 14 of 14
    tenthousandthingstenthousandthings Posts: 1,036member
    I wrote:
    "It's worth noting that the HP Z2 Mini (competition for the Mac mini) used to offer the Xeon E3-1200 as one of its high-end options. Checking today, that is no longer the case -- the high end is currently Core i7-6700 or Core i7-7700."
    Ugh. This is wrong -- you have to select the discrete NVIDIA GPU option before you can see the full array of CPU options, which include three Xeon E3-12xx...
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