Samsung's Exynos 9810 mobile processor follows Apple's A11 chip with machine learning feat...

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Samsung has launched its newest application processor for mobile devices, the Exynos 9 Series 9810, but claimed new features to the processor line, including depth-sensing face detection and deep learning capabilities, suggest Samsung may be borrowing some concepts from in Apple's A11 Bionic, used in the iPhone 8 and iPhone X.




The Exynos 9810, made using Samsung's second-generation 10-nanometer FinFET process, consists of a third-generation custom CPU with eight cores, consisting of four high-powered cores clocked at 2.9GHz combined with four others optimized for efficiency. Using an improved architecture, it is claimed to have double the single-core performance compared to its predecessor, while multi-core performance is said to be increased by around 40 percent.

Notably for this launch, Samsung is touting the chip's capabilities relating to image processing and "neural network-based deep learning," in what could be considered an attempt to match Apple and the new features introduced with the iPhone X.

"This cutting-edge technology allows the processor to accurately recognize people or items in photos for fast image searching or categorization, or through deep sensing, scan a user's face in 3D for hybrid face detection," Samsung's press release states. "By utilizing both hardware and software, hybrid face detection enables realistic face tracking filters as well as stronger security when unlocking a device with one's face."

Apple's A11 Bionic processor has a "Neural Engine" which is used to power the iPhone X's Face ID, taking data from the TrueDepth camera array and creating a depth map of the user's face and comparing it to a previously registered face. This processing and hardware combination is also used for face tracking functions in apps, such as the massively popular Animoji.

Samsung notes "for added security, the processor has a separate security processing unit to safeguard vital personal data such as facial, iris, and fingerprint information." This also sounds similar to the Secure Enclave, another well-known feature of Apple's mobile devices used for storing a user's biometric data.

While this may be seen as an attempt by Samsung to copy Apple, it is worth highlighting that Samsung introduced a facial recognition system in the Galaxy S8, though it was quickly found to be defeated by a photograph of the registered user.

The detailing of the features does suggest Samsung's moving in the same direction as Apple regarding its security, though it also does largely depend on the implementation on a future device as to how closely the two security systems line up. For example, while Apple's TrueDepth camera uses a variety of sensors, Samsung does not describe how its own "hybrid face detection" system works nor the required components used for it to function.

The Exynos 9810's image processing and use of an upgraded multi-format codec reportedly offers advanced image stabilization for photographs and UHD video, with reduced noise and motion blur, and "real-time out-of-focus photography in (a) high resolution." Video recording and playback at UHD resolution at 120 frames per second is also touted, along with 10-bit HEVC and VP9 codec support.

The included LTE modem in the Exynos 9810 is claimed to be the first 1.2 gigabits per second model, as well as the "industry's first" Cat.18 LTE modem to support up to 6 times carrier aggregation for a 1.2 gigabit downlink and 200 megabits per second uplink. The modem also supports 4x4 MIMO and 256-QAM (Quadrature Amplification Modulation) to maximize transfer rates.

Samsung advises that the Exynos 9 Series 9810 is currently in mass production, which strongly suggests it will be used in the "Galaxy S9," this year's release of the flagship product line.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 42
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 3,177member
    Quel supris. 

    Still, photocopying the Apple brochure is one thing, getting it to work as well is another. 

    edited January 4 macxpressSnickersMagoowatto_cobraaegeanjony0
  • Reply 2 of 42
    What? They announced a chip without announcing the product that will use it? Well I’m sure Android P will have deep feature integration with this... /s
    king editor the grateracerhomie3watto_cobra
  • Reply 3 of 42
    VRingVRing Posts: 108member
    To give everyone an idea of performance based on Samsung's claims:

    Apple A10 (iPhone 7 Plus)

    -Geekbench Single Core: 3,438
    -Geekbench Multi Core: 5,723
    -3DMark Sling Shot Extreme (Metal): 1,986

    Exynos 8895 (Galaxy S8)

    -Geekbench Single Core: 1,956
    -Geekbench Multi Core: 6,432
    -3DMark Sling Shot Extreme (OpenGL): 3,142

    Apple A11 (iPhone X)

    -Geekbench Single Core: 4,203
    -Geekbench Multi Core: 10,103
    -3DMark Sling Shot Extreme (Metal): 2,691

    Exynos 9810 (expected performance)

    -Geekbench Single Core: 3,912 (2x performance increase)
    -Geekbench Multi Core: 9,005 (1.4x performance increase)
    -3DMark Sling Shot Extreme (OpenGL): 3,770 (1.2x performance increase)

    Geekbench values: https://browser.geekbench.com/
    3DMark values: https://www.futuremark.com/hardware/mobile

    It looks like Samsung will extend their graphics lead and start approaching Apple in single core and multi core performance. It's clear that Apple has a decent lead in CPU performance.
    edited January 4 muthuk_vanalingamaegean
  • Reply 4 of 42
    What? They announced a chip without announcing the product that will use it? Well I’m sure Android P will have deep feature integration with this... /s
    If you don't have a clue, better don't talk about it!!! This chip Exynos 9810 will be used in Samsung's flagship phones (S9, S9+, Note 9 or whatever it is called) for 2018, except for USA/China where Qualcomm's Snapdragon 845 will be used. This is known to everyone in Android world.
    VRingsingularity
  • Reply 5 of 42
    Samsung's motto is, "Anything Apple can do, we can do better." That probably applies to all of Samsung's business model concerning all companies. Samsung always stays hungry, constantly nipping at the butts of rival companies. If Apple had the same philosophy, they might have mostly wiped out the Android platform by now. However, passive Apple is now the only company that remains on the doomed list and doesn't even come close to having the high value of any FANG stock or even Microsoft. Android is still getting stronger in terms of outright unit numbers and that's all Wall Street cares about

    I don't have a clue as to what Apple needs to do to crush Samsung's smartphone business and at this point it may be too late.  The tech-critics are going to heap mountains of praise for the Galaxy S9, saying how much better it is than the iPhone X and there's nothing Apple can really do about it.  It will just be business as usual for Apple.
    edited January 4 racerhomie3
  • Reply 6 of 42
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 3,177member
    VRing said:
    To give everyone an idea of performance based on Samsung's claims.

    Apple A10 (iPhone 7 Plus)

    -Geekbench Single Core: 3,438
    -Geekbench Multi Core: 5,723
    -3DMark Sling Shot Extreme (Metal): 1,986

    Exynos 8895 (Galaxy S8)

    -Geekbench Single Core: 1,956
    -Geekbench Multi Core: 6,432
    -3DMark Sling Shot Extreme (OpenGL): 3,142

    Apple A11 (iPhone X)

    -Geekbench Single Core: 4,203
    -Geekbench Multi Core: 10,103
    -3DMark Sling Shot Extreme (Metal): 2,691

    Exynos 9810 (expected performance)

    -Geekbench Single Core: 3,912 (2x performance increase)
    -Geekbench Multi Core: 9,005 (1.4x performance increase)
    -3DMark Sling Shot Extreme (OpenGL): 3,770 (1.2x performance increase)

    Geekbench values: https://browser.geekbench.com/
    3DMark values: https://www.futuremark.com/hardware/mobile

    It looks like Samsung will extend their graphics lead and start approaching Apple in single core and multi core performance. It's clear that Apple has a decent lead in CPU performance.
    What? They announced a chip without announcing the product that will use it? Well I’m sure Android P will have deep feature integration with this... /s
    If you don't have a clue, better don't talk about it!!! This chip Exynos 9810 will be used in Samsung's flagship phones (S9, S9+, Note 9 or whatever it is called) for 2018, except for USA/China where Qualcomm's Snapdragon 845 will be used. This is known to everyone in Android world.

    Defensive much?

    metrixmacxpresswatto_cobra
  • Reply 7 of 42
    I don’t buy for a minute their 2X single core claim. Samsung has never achieved anywhere near that year over year in any of their CPUs.

    Further, how could they double single core and yet manage a measly 40% multi core increase? Something doesn’t add up.

    Unless...

    They doubled performance of their low power cores by 2X, not their high power cores.
    racerhomie3watto_cobra
  • Reply 8 of 42
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 3,879member
    Samsung's motto is, "Anything Apple can do, we can do better." That probably applies to all of Samsung's business model concerning all companies. Samsung always stays hungry, constantly nipping at the butts of rival companies. If Apple had the same philosophy, they might have mostly wiped out the Android platform by now. However, passive Apple is now the only company that remains on the doomed list and doesn't even come close to having the high value of any FANG stock or even Microsoft. Android is still getting stronger in terms of outright unit numbers and that's all Wall Street cares about

    I don't have a clue as to what Apple needs to do to crush Samsung's smartphone business and at this point it may be too late.  The tech-critics are going to heap mountains of praise for the Galaxy S9, saying how much better it is than the iPhone X and there's nothing Apple can really do about it.  It will just be business as usual for Apple.
    Maybe Wall Street cares, but Apple doesn't necessarily care how many phones, Macs, etc they sell. If they sell more than Samsung or HP, Dell, someone else, then good on them. If they don't well then so be it. It's not a game where for one person to win, someone has to lose. Again, maybe Wall Street thinks this way, but I'm glad Apple doesn't. I'd rather Apple focus on getting good products out the door rather than strictly on sales numbers. IMO, the day Apple focuses on its stock market price and how many they can sell of something is the day Apple starts to die. 

    I don't think Apple needs to do anything to crush Samsung. They just need to stay focused on themselves and not worry about what someone else is doing....like Samsung does. Again, its not about selling the most of a product...its about selling something better. More doesn't mean better. I don't know why some correlate one with the other. 

    And, since when has Samsung did something better than Apple, especially on a wide scale? They're a follower, not a leader and when they do release something before Apple, such as facial recognition for example its very, very poorly engineered. First doesn't mean shit if it sucks in the end. As much as maybe you want Android to be wiped out, I don't want them to be. Apple needs competition. Same goes for Windows...I don't really want Microsoft to fail. I want them to succeed. This will keep Apple on their toes. 
    georgie01watto_cobraaegeanrandominternetperson
  • Reply 9 of 42
    VRingVRing Posts: 108member
    Rayz2016 said:
    VRing said:
    To give everyone an idea of performance based on Samsung's claims.

    Apple A10 (iPhone 7 Plus)

    -Geekbench Single Core: 3,438
    -Geekbench Multi Core: 5,723
    -3DMark Sling Shot Extreme (Metal): 1,986

    Exynos 8895 (Galaxy S8)

    -Geekbench Single Core: 1,956
    -Geekbench Multi Core: 6,432
    -3DMark Sling Shot Extreme (OpenGL): 3,142

    Apple A11 (iPhone X)

    -Geekbench Single Core: 4,203
    -Geekbench Multi Core: 10,103
    -3DMark Sling Shot Extreme (Metal): 2,691

    Exynos 9810 (expected performance)

    -Geekbench Single Core: 3,912 (2x performance increase)
    -Geekbench Multi Core: 9,005 (1.4x performance increase)
    -3DMark Sling Shot Extreme (OpenGL): 3,770 (1.2x performance increase)

    Geekbench values: https://browser.geekbench.com/
    3DMark values: https://www.futuremark.com/hardware/mobile

    It looks like Samsung will extend their graphics lead and start approaching Apple in single core and multi core performance. It's clear that Apple has a decent lead in CPU performance.
    What? They announced a chip without announcing the product that will use it? Well I’m sure Android P will have deep feature integration with this... /s
    If you don't have a clue, better don't talk about it!!! This chip Exynos 9810 will be used in Samsung's flagship phones (S9, S9+, Note 9 or whatever it is called) for 2018, except for USA/China where Qualcomm's Snapdragon 845 will be used. This is known to everyone in Android world.

    Defensive much?

    Contrary, both the other user and I posted known facts. You, on the other hand, are just flaming with nothing to add.
    muthuk_vanalingamsingularity
  • Reply 10 of 42
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 3,177member
    Samsung's motto is, "Anything Apple can do, we can do better." That probably applies to all of Samsung's business model concerning all companies. Samsung always stays hungry, constantly nipping at the butts of rival companies. If Apple had the same philosophy, they might have mostly wiped out the Android platform by now. However, passive Apple is now the only company that remains on the doomed list and doesn't even come close to having the high value of any FANG stock or even Microsoft. Android is still getting stronger in terms of outright unit numbers and that's all Wall Street cares about

    I don't have a clue as to what Apple needs to do to crush Samsung's smartphone business and at this point it may be too late.  The tech-critics are going to heap mountains of praise for the Galaxy S9, saying how much better it is than the iPhone X and there's nothing Apple can really do about it.  It will just be business as usual for Apple.
    He’s here all week, folks!
    Try the fish…
    StrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 11 of 42
    I don't have a clue as to what Apple needs to do to crush Samsung's smartphone business and at this point it may be too late.  The tech-critics are going to heap mountains of praise for the Galaxy S9, saying how much better it is than the iPhone X and there's nothing Apple can really do about it.  It will just be business as usual for Apple.

    Apple crushed Samsung years ago. Not sure what you’re on about, but you’re clearly wrong.
    racerhomie3StrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 12 of 42
    dewmedewme Posts: 1,164member
    What? They announced a chip without announcing the product that will use it? Well I’m sure Android P will have deep feature integration with this... /s
    If you don't have a clue, better don't talk about it!!! This chip Exynos 9810 will be used in Samsung's flagship phones (S9, S9+, Note 9 or whatever it is called) for 2018, except for USA/China where Qualcomm's Snapdragon 845 will be used. This is known to everyone in Android world.
    Very seriously, I would not be at all surprised to see Samsung label their next generation phone Galaxy X. This is simply what Samsung does, and they are not in the least bit embarrassed about doing it. 
    macxpresscincymacracerhomie3StrangeDayswatto_cobrarandominternetperson
  • Reply 13 of 42
    wigbywigby Posts: 648member
    Samsung's motto is, "Anything Apple can do, we can do better." That probably applies to all of Samsung's business model concerning all companies. Samsung always stays hungry, constantly nipping at the butts of rival companies. If Apple had the same philosophy, they might have mostly wiped out the Android platform by now. However, passive Apple is now the only company that remains on the doomed list and doesn't even come close to having the high value of any FANG stock or even Microsoft. Android is still getting stronger in terms of outright unit numbers and that's all Wall Street cares about

    I don't have a clue as to what Apple needs to do to crush Samsung's smartphone business and at this point it may be too late.  The tech-critics are going to heap mountains of praise for the Galaxy S9, saying how much better it is than the iPhone X and there's nothing Apple can really do about it.  It will just be business as usual for Apple.
    Apple has no desire to crush their only real competitor. It would only lead to regulators taking action against them.
    cincymacwatto_cobra
  • Reply 14 of 42
    VRingVRing Posts: 108member
    I don’t buy for a minute their 2X single core claim. Samsung has never achieved anywhere near that year over year in any of their CPUs.

    Further, how could they double single core and yet manage a measly 40% multi core increase? Something doesn’t add up.

    Unless...

    They doubled performance of their low power cores by 2X, not their high power cores.
    The Exynos 8890 launched in 2016 and, its successor, the Exynos 8895 in 2017. Both used similar Mongoose cores, the M1 and M2. The M2 was only a slight tweaking from the M1. 

    Geekbench Single Core:

    -Exynos 8890 (Galaxy S7 - M1): 1,758
    -Exynos 8895 (Galaxy S8 - M2): 1,956

    The M3 is a new design. So it's not exactly year over year performance as they essentially stood still in 2017.
  • Reply 15 of 42
    yonisyonis Posts: 3member
    Emphases mine:
    Samsung has launched its newest application processor for mobile devices, the Exynos 9 Series 9810, but claimed new features to the processor line, including depth-sensing face detection and deep learning capabilities, suggest Samsung may be borrowing some concepts from in Apple's A11 Bionic, used in the iPhone 8 and iPhone X.
    ...
    Notably for this launch, Samsung is touting the chip's capabilities relating to image processing and "neural network-based deep learning," in what could be considered an attempt to match Apple and the new features introduced with the iPhone X.
    The design lifecycle for these products is measured in years, not months. In other words, Samsung was working on this stuff in parallel to Apple, not serially.
  • Reply 16 of 42
    What? They announced a chip without announcing the product that will use it? Well I’m sure Android P will have deep feature integration with this... /s
    If you don't have a clue, better don't talk about it!!! This chip Exynos 9810 will be used in Samsung's flagship phones (S9, S9+, Note 9 or whatever it is called) for 2018, except for USA/China where Qualcomm's Snapdragon 845 will be used. This is known to everyone in Android world.
    Why is Qualcomm’s Snapdragon being used in the USA & China and their own chip everywhere else?

    Is this some kind of backroom deal to license Qualcomm’s wireless IP for use in their Exynos?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 17 of 42
    macguimacgui Posts: 643member
    Samsung's motto is, "Anything Apple can do, we can do better."
    To be fair, that can be applied to Apple's operations. They're seldom the first to market with a product, but instead develop what they be leave is a better way. Apple doesn't have a patent on that methodology. 

    Somebody develops a method of steering a horseless carriage with levers. Somebody else comes a long with a wheel for steering. At some point the wheel becomes everybody's choice.


    Samsung always stays hungry, constantly nipping at the butts of rival companies. If Apple had the same philosophy, they might have mostly wiped out the Android platform by now. However, passive Apple is now the only company that remains on the doomed list
    Ok, that's some funny stuff right there!

    Wait, he's serious ?! That's hysterically funny!
    yonisStrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 18 of 42
    VRing said:
    I don’t buy for a minute their 2X single core claim. Samsung has never achieved anywhere near that year over year in any of their CPUs.

    Further, how could they double single core and yet manage a measly 40% multi core increase? Something doesn’t add up.

    Unless...

    They doubled performance of their low power cores by 2X, not their high power cores.
    The Exynos 8890 launched in 2016 and, its successor, the Exynos 8895 in 2017. Both used similar Mongoose cores, the M1 and M2. The M2 was only a slight tweaking from the M1. 

    Geekbench Single Core:

    -Exynos 8890 (Galaxy S7 - M1): 1,758
    -Exynos 8895 (Galaxy S8 - M2): 1,956

    The M3 is a new design. So it's not exactly year over year performance as they essentially stood still in 2017.

    Irrelevant as to whether it’s a new design. Nobody has ever come close to 4,000 single core. Not Samsung, not Qualcomm or even ARM themselves. Likewise, neither of them has ever seen increases in performance anywhere near 2X. Ever.

    To think Samsung is going to hit 4,000 in single core us just wishful thinking. 
    tmaygeorgie01racerhomie3watto_cobra
  • Reply 19 of 42
    Is “massively popular Animoji” really a thing?  This all seems gimmicky at the moment...

    I’m more interested in the wireless tech, but it seems like everyone’s spec is a bazillion Mbps when in reality it nice to maintaining 2Mbps.

    I’ll be thrilled when I can get 10Mbps, which is really what I’m paying for but not receiving now.


    watto_cobra
  • Reply 20 of 42
    VRingVRing Posts: 108member
    VRing said:
    I don’t buy for a minute their 2X single core claim. Samsung has never achieved anywhere near that year over year in any of their CPUs.

    Further, how could they double single core and yet manage a measly 40% multi core increase? Something doesn’t add up.

    Unless...

    They doubled performance of their low power cores by 2X, not their high power cores.
    The Exynos 8890 launched in 2016 and, its successor, the Exynos 8895 in 2017. Both used similar Mongoose cores, the M1 and M2. The M2 was only a slight tweaking from the M1. 

    Geekbench Single Core:

    -Exynos 8890 (Galaxy S7 - M1): 1,758
    -Exynos 8895 (Galaxy S8 - M2): 1,956

    The M3 is a new design. So it's not exactly year over year performance as they essentially stood still in 2017.

    Irrelevant as to whether it’s a new design. Nobody has ever come close to 4,000 single core. Not Samsung, not Qualcomm or even ARM themselves. Likewise, neither of them has ever seen increases in performance anywhere near 2X. Ever.

    To think Samsung is going to hit 4,000 in single core us just wishful thinking. 
    Why is that irrelevant? Because you say so? Hardly convincing. Having a new design is very relevant.

    You're arguing with Samsung's claims. Obviously we'll see when the Galaxy S9 launches, but I don't see why Samsung would lie about their performance to such an extent.
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