FBI director reignites 'not so clean cut' encryption debate

Posted:
in General Discussion edited January 9
More than a year after the last high-profile showdown between the FBI and Silicon Valley over widespread encryption, recently-installed FBI Director Christopher Wray again signaled that his agency will continue to fight for access.




"This is an urgent public safety issue," Wray said at the International Conference on Cyber Security, according to Reuters. Encryption prevented the bureau from accessing data on nearly 4,000 devices in fiscal 2017, he told the assembled audience.

"I just do not buy the claim that it is impossible" to find a solution, Wray added.

This is the second time since his ascension to the top of the FBI that Wray has chosen to join the encryption debate.

"To put it mildly, this is a huge, huge problem," Wray said last October. "It impacts investigations across the board narcotics, human trafficking, counterterrorism, counterintelligence, gangs, organized crime, child exploitation."

That Wray has now repeatedly voiced these concerns may signal that the bureau, and by extension the federal government, could be planning a more aggressive push for access to encrypted data.

The issue has been on the back burner since the infamous 2016 showdown between Apple and the FBI, which was sparked by an iPhone belonging to the perpetrators of the San Bernardino shooting. The government attempted to prod Apple and other tech companies to create encryption "backdoors" in their products, resulting in an enormous backlash from both the technology and security communities.
urchin11
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 26
    philboogiephilboogie Posts: 7,387member
    Oh brother. One idiot leaves, the next idiot comes in. Federal Bureau of Incomprehension.
    StrangeDaysanton zuykovracerhomie3peterhartjbdragonradarthekatlostkiwijSnivelyjony0watto_cobra
  • Reply 2 of 26
    "I just do not buy the claim that it is impossible", wow, another government servant skipped math class in college. Let me get it straight, you just do not buy the claim that it is impossible to make 1 + 1 = 3? Maybe we can copy what the Chinese government did: require every company submit a copy of their digital keys to the government.
    edited January 9 uraharaSoliMuntzanton zuykovracerhomie3radarthekatlostkiwimuthuk_vanalingamadm1SpamSandwich
  • Reply 3 of 26
    These dipshits just don’t get it. Even the CIA itself was hacked and lost its tools to the wild...how do they expect to keep magic keys safe?
    uraharaMuntzracerhomie3jbdragonradarthekatlostkiwijahbladeadm1jSnivelyjony0
  • Reply 4 of 26
    It's a bizarre request. That a citizen or any human, should NEVER be allowed to have ANY secrets from those in charge. And we ALL know whatever 'doors' they insisted on being built into devices would be in everyones hands within a month. Of course they would be hacked first off. Or maybe he wants two sets of secrecy allowed. One if you work for the FBI and one for a regular old 'citizen'. They will chose who gets to have secrets. If they had better hackers on their payroll everything would be gettable anyway. But to build devices WITH security flaws is stupid beyond belief. 
    Muntzradarthekatmuthuk_vanalingamjony0baconstangwatto_cobra
  • Reply 5 of 26
    SoliSoli Posts: 7,678member
     Doesn’t he realize he’s doing it all wrong? He needs to wait for some tragic, terrorist event to happen so he can use that is his vehicle to easily convince the public that reasonable, personal security is bad for the people.
    StrangeDaysMuntzracerhomie3fastasleepradarthekatgeorgie01lostkiwidesignrmuthuk_vanalingamphilboogie
  • Reply 6 of 26
    uraharaurahara Posts: 163member
    It was said many times already.
    Crimanls will always find the way to keep secrets. Especially because there are many encryption tools on the market.
    But us, law abiding citizens, will be left without any easily accessable privacy protection. We just don't take enough time to be interested in it. And we get burned.
    But goverment wants to control us.
    F.. them.
    Muntzracerhomie3SnickersMagooradarthekatmuthuk_vanalingamjony0watto_cobra
  • Reply 7 of 26
    SoliSoli Posts: 7,678member
    urahara said:
    It was said many times already.
    Crimanls will always find the way to keep secrets. Especially because there are many encryption tools on the market.
    But us, law abiding citizens, will be left without any easily accessable privacy protection. We just don't take enough time to be interested in it. And we get burned.
    But goverment wants to control us.
    F.. them.
    If you outlaw encryption then only outlaws will have encryption.
    racerhomie3peterhartSnickersMagoomanfred zornlostkiwijahblademuthuk_vanalingamphilboogieadm1jony0
  • Reply 8 of 26
    NemWanNemWan Posts: 102member
    We need to resist the idea that technology makes it inevitable that government is entitled to more power and the people to less rights, as though the government gets to be in the 21st century and your rights get to be in the 18th. How much information was government entitled to capture about someone when they weren't carrying a personal computer in their pocket? For that matter, how much was the government entitled to eavesdrop on people before the telephone existed and before wiretaps were possible?
    fastasleepradarthekatgeorgie01lostkiwimuthuk_vanalingamSpamSandwichjony0watto_cobra
  • Reply 9 of 26
    rob53rob53 Posts: 1,880member
    "The Federal Bureau of Investigation was unable to access data from nearly 7,800 devices in the fiscal year that ended Sept. 30 ..." Sounds to me like Apple's encryption is working just fine. 

    "...
    The FBI has been unable to access data in more than half of the devices that it tried to unlock due to encryption, Wray added." So we're talking about 14K devices. I assume the half they were able to access were older iPhones and Android devices, throwing in a few Windows phones Microsoft gave them the keys to.

    "
    The FBI supports strong encryption and information security broadly, Wray said ..." Here's where Wray needs the most education. In order for encryption to be strong, it can never be broken. 

    Christopher Wray, DOB 12/17/1967, Republican and a LAWYER!!!! The last part says it all. No offense to those choosing private schools, but... "
    He attended the Buckley School in New York City and the private boarding school Phillips Academy in Andover, Massachusetts." Person of privilege demanding everyone follow what he says while not knowing much of anything about computers.
    Soliradarthekatadm1SpamSandwichwatto_cobra
  • Reply 10 of 26
    I will be continuing voting for Apple with my money.
    anton zuykovmknelsonracerhomie3SnickersMagooradarthekatlostkiwimetrixwatto_cobra
  • Reply 11 of 26
    mac_128mac_128 Posts: 3,042member
    Oh brother. One idiot leaves, the next idiot comes in. Federal Bureau of Incomprehension.
    Yes, but now the idiot who appointed him will support him with endless tweet storms encouraging boycotts of products for any company who doesn't comply, or worse invoke economic sanctions on the company.
    lostkiwimuthuk_vanalingamphilboogiewatto_cobra
  • Reply 12 of 26
    mac_128 said:
    Oh brother. One idiot leaves, the next idiot comes in. Federal Bureau of Incomprehension.
    Yes, but now the idiot who appointed him will support him with endless tweet storms encouraging boycotts of products for any company who doesn't comply, or worse invoke economic sanctions on the company.
    Even if that happens, it will change nothing. People will still be using encryption.. BUT, for starters, it should happen the way you described. The question is - will it?
    edited January 9 watto_cobra
  • Reply 13 of 26
    jbdragonjbdragon Posts: 1,747member
    IF the Government gets it's way, guess what, every other Government around the world are going to want access to those same keys!!!

    The other issue, which they figured out when they were trying to do this in the past that country's wouldn't buy U.S. made products because the U.S. Government could gain access to them.

    The simple fact is, most encryption software these days is made outside of the U.S just because of the U.S. Government for years trying to get their backdoor. So 99% of the Good American's will have crap Security with backdoor leaks because that's what will happen. It'll leak from something in the world. That is if it doesn't get hacked first because they know there's a backdoor to hack into.

    In the end, anyone with half a brain can install 3rd party software onto their Android phone which have NO BACKDOORS. So they really didn't solve anything. They really just don't get it. Sometimes you just have to take some of the bad to allow people to keep their rights, protection and security. Most web pages you go to these days are Encrypted. So A assume the Government would want access to that to spy on people also.

    In the end, getting on someone's phone AFTER THE FACT didn't stop a single thing from happening.
    radarthekatlostkiwijony0watto_cobra
  • Reply 14 of 26
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,692member
    Eventially, they'll want access to your brain, because well, who knows wtf you're hiding in there... You think I'm joking? I wish I was.
    As soon as the tech is available, and it will get there eventually, you'll see this kind of thing being done routinely and the real horror show will begin.
    radarthekatgeorgie01muthuk_vanalingambaconstangwatto_cobra
  • Reply 15 of 26
    analogjackanalogjack Posts: 1,036member
    "I just do not buy the claim that it is impossible"

    As Maxwell Smart would say 'the old argument from disbelief'.

    I can say and probably many would agree with me that 'I just find it impossible to belief that a gigantic cloud of gas, in the form of molecular hydrogen can condense under the influence of gravity into an iPhone, given enough time for heavier elements to spew forth and condense into planets and intelligent life to self assemble and then assemble robots that self assemble iPhones. 
    radarthekatwatto_cobra
  • Reply 16 of 26
    steven n.steven n. Posts: 1,023member
    mac_128 said:
    Oh brother. One idiot leaves, the next idiot comes in. Federal Bureau of Incomprehension.
    Yes, but now the idiot who appointed him will support him with endless tweet storms encouraging boycotts of products for any company who doesn't comply, or worse invoke economic sanctions on the company.
    So did the previous non-idiot support his FBI director. People without a strong STEM background simply don't get it. They think there are magic wands and attended Hogwarts School of Math and Magic.
  • Reply 17 of 26
    I'll reduce your workload by 1/7 - legalise drugs. There easy. Now you've got more manpower - more than 1/7 actually since narcotics enforcement probably used a disproportionate amount of your resources.
    designranton zuykov
  • Reply 18 of 26
    ...for consideration in architectural terms: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panopticon
  • Reply 19 of 26
    foggyhill said:
    Eventially, they'll want access to your brain, because well, who knows wtf you're hiding in there... You think I'm joking? I wish I was.
    As soon as the tech is available, and it will get there eventually, you'll see this kind of thing being done routinely and the real horror show will begin.
    The last FBI director actually said that in a speech.  They want to know everything you tell your spouse, priest, lawyer, accountant, etc.  

    What you think, but never say, is also on their wish list.  

    Thought police here we come...

    Buy your prison stock now, and get ahead of the rush.

    I’m sure Google will be happy to index everything for them.  I bet ads popping up on politicians computers will shock you...


    watto_cobra
  • Reply 20 of 26
    Shouldn’t be car makers forced to create forced remote control of cars given to the agencies in case someone wanted to drive into the people again? And don’t forget to ask for something that makes the knives immediately harmless. And yes, one feature that can remotely stop guns shooting please...
    baconstangwatto_cobra
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