Apple, ARM & Intel facing potential Israeli class action suit over Meltdown & Spectre

Posted:
in General Discussion
Israeli plaintiffs are seeking to file a class action lawsuit against Apple, ARM, and Intel over the Meltdown and Spectre vulnerabilities recently uncovered in Intel and ARM-based processors.




The filing was made through the Haifa District Court, and includes both computer and cellphone owners in the affected class, Hamodia said on Sunday. The court is due to issue a ruling on the matter in the next several weeks.

"Our worst nightmares have come to pass, and a giant tech bubble has burst," wrote an attorney for the plaintiffs, Rimon Zinati. "That this is an earthquake is an understatement. Since the announcement by the companies of the vulnerabilities of their products, we realize that we are living in a fantasy world and now realize that we do not even have a minimum of privacy."

Should it be green-lit by a judicial review in a few weeks, the Israeli suit will add to a growing number of legal challenges related to Meltdown and Spectre. Intel in particular has known about the problems for months, but only confirmed them recently.

Apple and Intel have distributed some software fixes, but the vulnerabilities still haven't been completely resolved. In theory, a knowledgeable hacker could use Meltdown or Spectre to access restricted memory.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 32
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 7,162member
    WTF? Why Apple and not other hardware manufacturers? Why not HP, Lenovo, ASUS, Dell, Microsoft, Google? Why only Apple? This whole article makes it sound like Apple is the only hardware company besides Intel and ARM that is liable for this. I might be labeled a fanboy on this site but this is bullshit.
    edited January 2018 SolibloggerblogPetrolDavewlymmagman1979StrangeDaysmacseekerfuzzylobespscooter63baconstang
  • Reply 2 of 32
    lkrupp said:
    WTF? Why Apple and not other hardware manufacturers? Why not HP, Lenovo, ASUS, Dell, Microsoft, Google? Why only Apple? This whole article makes it sound like Apple is the only hardware company besides Intel and ARM that is liable for this. I might be labeled a fanboy on this site but this is bullshit.
    Who has the biggest pockets?
    Who gets the most publicity when a lawsuit is filed against them?

    You can guess the answer.
    lkruppPetrolDavedewmejbdragonGG1rcfapscooter63baconstangwatto_cobrajony0
  • Reply 3 of 32
    SoliSoli Posts: 9,189member
    lkrupp said:
    WTF? Why Apple and not other hardware manufacturers? Why not HP, Lenovo, ASUS, Dell, Microsoft, Google? Why only Apple? This whole article makes it sound like Apple is the only hardware company besides Intel and ARM that is liable for this. I might be labeled a fanboy on this site but this is bullshit.
    These lawsuits are bullshit, but in this case Apple does design their own processors, which does put them closer to this issue than other vendors you mentioned.
    edited January 2018 holmstockdphilboogiejbdragonjony0
  • Reply 4 of 32
    #Quote...
    "Our worst nightmares have come to pass, and a giant tech bubble has burst," wrote an attorney for the plaintiffs, Rimon Zinati. "That this is an earthquake is an understatement. Since the announcement by the companies of the vulnerabilities of their products, we realize that we are living in a fantasy world and now realize that we do not even have a minimum of privacy."

    I wonder if this attorney also has a sideline job as a movie scriptwriter?

    zoetmbwlymmagman1979StrangeDaysjbdragonbaconstangwatto_cobrajony0
  • Reply 5 of 32
    What’s next?

    Class action lawsuits against Microsoft or Apple whenever a security exploit is discovered in their OS?

    The only absolute with regards to computers (software & hardware) is there will always be bugs/exploits. You simply cannot design something that will be 100% free from any bugs. All you can do is put in an effort to minimize these from happening, and WHEN they happen provide a quick response to deal with the issue.
    mike egglestonPetrolDavemac_dogjbdragonbaconstangwatto_cobrajony0
  • Reply 6 of 32
    I think the biggest question that has been largely ignored by the press is this: Did Intel/ARM/Apple knowingly have a security flaw in their hardware, or was this more of case of a flaw was discovered. We know that Intel was aware of it for a couple of months, but no mention about if Apple or ARM (leaning more towards ARM on this one) knew about it. I think that should be addressed way before we start talking about lawsuits.
    razorpitmac_dogbaconstangwatto_cobra
  • Reply 7 of 32
    SoliSoli Posts: 9,189member
    What’s next?

    Class action lawsuits against Microsoft or Apple whenever a security exploit is discovered in their OS?

    The only absolute with regards to computers (software & hardware) is there will always be bugs/exploits. You simply cannot design something that will be 100% free from any bugs. All you can do is put in an effort to minimize these from happening, and WHEN they happen provide a quick response to deal with the issue.
    "Lawfirm Sues Major Tech Companies on Behalf of all Other Cardinal Numbers for Only Focusing on Numbers One and Zero"?
    edited January 2018 pscooter63watto_cobra
  • Reply 8 of 32
    zoetmbzoetmb Posts: 2,471member
    I don't know about Israeli law, but in U.S. courts, they would have to prove not just that the vulnerabilities exist, but that they were specifically harmed and they'd have to rationalize a value on the harm.   So if someone was able to break into their systems because of this flaw and steal designs and issue a product that cost the first firm revenue, they'd have a case.   Failing that, if there's no damages, there's generally no lawsuit, although class action suits are frequently settled anyway.

    But in a small country like Israel, who knows how closely the companies are tied into the courts and how the courts will rule and what, if anything, Apple can do about it.




    watto_cobra
  • Reply 9 of 32
    Soli said:
    lkrupp said:
    WTF? Why Apple and not other hardware manufacturers? Why not HP, Lenovo, ASUS, Dell, Microsoft, Google? Why only Apple? This whole article makes it sound like Apple is the only hardware company besides Intel and ARM that is liable for this. I might be labeled a fanboy on this site but this is bullshit.
    These lawsuits are bullshit, but in this case Apple does design their own processors, which does put them closer to this issue than other vendors you mentioned.

    They use ARM's design, the issue is ARM's, not Apple's.
    baconstangwatto_cobrajony0
  • Reply 10 of 32
    coolfactorcoolfactor Posts: 1,505member
    I think the biggest question that has been largely ignored by the press is this: Did Intel/ARM/Apple knowingly have a security flaw in their hardware, or was this more of case of a flaw was discovered. We know that Intel was aware of it for a couple of months, but no mention about if Apple or ARM (leaning more towards ARM on this one) knew about it. I think that should be addressed way before we start talking about lawsuits.
    Apple had a partial fix for Meltdown baked into macOS before the public announcement. They did know about the vulnerabilities, and took action to address. That’s all that matters.
    ericthehalfbeemagman1979baconstangwatto_cobrajony0
  • Reply 11 of 32
    alandail said:
    Soli said:
    lkrupp said:
    WTF? Why Apple and not other hardware manufacturers? Why not HP, Lenovo, ASUS, Dell, Microsoft, Google? Why only Apple? This whole article makes it sound like Apple is the only hardware company besides Intel and ARM that is liable for this. I might be labeled a fanboy on this site but this is bullshit.
    These lawsuits are bullshit, but in this case Apple does design their own processors, which does put them closer to this issue than other vendors you mentioned.

    They use ARM's design, the issue is ARM's, not Apple's.

    No they don’t.

    Apple designs their own processors which are compatible with the ARMv8 ISA. The microarchitecture is 100% Apple.

    Further, the only ARM processor susceptible to Meltdown is the brand-new A75. Previous cores were not, because they are a simpler design and are therefore immune. Apples A Series (which are far more advanced than any ARM design) are susceptible to Meltdown. Which shows that Apple is years ahead of ARM (at least when it comes to speculative execution).
    GG1watto_cobra
  • Reply 12 of 32
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 7,162member
    What’s next?

    Class action lawsuits against Microsoft or Apple whenever a security exploit is discovered in their OS?

    The only absolute with regards to computers (software & hardware) is there will always be bugs/exploits. You simply cannot design something that will be 100% free from any bugs. All you can do is put in an effort to minimize these from happening, and WHEN they happen provide a quick response to deal with the issue.
    I think if your read the terms of the software license to macOS and iOS you agree to accept as is with no guarantee of performance. In other words you pays your money and you takes your chance. 
    magman1979watto_cobra
  • Reply 13 of 32
    wlymwlym Posts: 90member
    Soli said:
    What’s next?

    Class action lawsuits against Microsoft or Apple whenever a security exploit is discovered in their OS?

    The only absolute with regards to computers (software & hardware) is there will always be bugs/exploits. You simply cannot design something that will be 100% free from any bugs. All you can do is put in an effort to minimize these from happening, and WHEN they happen provide a quick response to deal with the issue.
    "Lawfirm Sues Major Tech Companies on Behalf of all Other Cardinal Numbers for Only Focusing on Numbers One and Zero"?
    Odds are they'll get even.
    SolirazorpitStrangeDaysberndogwatto_cobra
  • Reply 14 of 32
    maestro64maestro64 Posts: 4,642member
    #Quote...
    "Our worst nightmares have come to pass, and a giant tech bubble has burst," wrote an attorney for the plaintiffs, Rimon Zinati. "That this is an earthquake is an understatement. Since the announcement by the companies of the vulnerabilities of their products, we realize that we are living in a fantasy world and now realize that we do not even have a minimum of privacy."

    I wonder if this attorney also has a sideline job as a movie scriptwriter?

    Better question has he shorted these stocks.

    I just like how they are trying to sue over something that has never impacted anyone. But no one sued Microsoft with all their security issues which in fact cost people and companies lost of money and time to deal with, how about when UK heath system was held for ransom do to security flaws in Windows.
    edited January 2018 baconstangwatto_cobra
  • Reply 15 of 32
    wlym said:
    Soli said:
    What’s next?

    Class action lawsuits against Microsoft or Apple whenever a security exploit is discovered in their OS?

    The only absolute with regards to computers (software & hardware) is there will always be bugs/exploits. You simply cannot design something that will be 100% free from any bugs. All you can do is put in an effort to minimize these from happening, and WHEN they happen provide a quick response to deal with the issue.
    "Lawfirm Sues Major Tech Companies on Behalf of all Other Cardinal Numbers for Only Focusing on Numbers One and Zero"?
    Odds are they'll get even.
    Wouldn't bet on it, everything always comes down to the lowest common denominator.
    StrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 16 of 32
    lkrupp said:
    WTF? Why Apple and not other hardware manufacturers? Why not HP, Lenovo, ASUS, Dell, Microsoft, Google? Why only Apple? This whole article makes it sound like Apple is the only hardware company besides Intel and ARM that is liable for this. I might be labeled a fanboy on this site but this is bullshit.
    Apple seems to be everyone's easiest target. I thought Apple's processors were licensed and based on ARM processors so I would think ARM would be the real target. Apple basically builds its A-series processors for itself but Intel builds many hundreds of millions of processors for dozens of companies. I don't really see how Apple becomes a bigger target than Intel. Anyway, the outcome is yet to be determined. Also, have Qualcomm's Snapdragon and Samsung's Exynos processors escaped this vulnerability since they're not being mentioned? It would be quite amazing if they did escape this flaw. Apple's hardware market share is relatively small but Apple seems to always end up as the leading story for anything that goes wrong. It's seems as though an awful lot of people have their hands out looking for some big payoff.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 17 of 32
    SoliSoli Posts: 9,189member
    razorpit said:
    wlym said:
    Soli said:
    What’s next?

    Class action lawsuits against Microsoft or Apple whenever a security exploit is discovered in their OS?

    The only absolute with regards to computers (software & hardware) is there will always be bugs/exploits. You simply cannot design something that will be 100% free from any bugs. All you can do is put in an effort to minimize these from happening, and WHEN they happen provide a quick response to deal with the issue.
    "Lawfirm Sues Major Tech Companies on Behalf of all Other Cardinal Numbers for Only Focusing on Numbers One and Zero"?
    Odds are they'll get even.
    Wouldn't bet on it, everything always comes down to the lowest common denominator.
    I think he’s making a joke about odd and even cardinal numbers.
    edited January 2018
  • Reply 18 of 32
    zoetmb said:
    I don't know about Israeli law, but in U.S. courts, they would have to prove not just that the vulnerabilities exist, but that they were specifically harmed and they'd have to rationalize a value on the harm.   So if someone was able to break into their systems because of this flaw and steal designs and issue a product that cost the first firm revenue, they'd have a case.   Failing that, if there's no damages, there's generally no lawsuit, although class action suits are frequently settled anyway.
    Wait...I was planning on suing my builder and Anderson because he built my house using their windows and it turns out glass is breakable so pretty much anyone could smash one and gain entry to my house.  So far nobody has but IT’S POSSIBLE!  Are you saying I don’t really have a case?
    baconstangwatto_cobra
  • Reply 19 of 32
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 4,729member
    lkrupp said:
    WTF? Why Apple and not other hardware manufacturers? Why not HP, Lenovo, ASUS, Dell, Microsoft, Google? Why only Apple? This whole article makes it sound like Apple is the only hardware company besides Intel and ARM that is liable for this. I might be labeled a fanboy on this site but this is bullshit.
    Apple seems to be everyone's easiest target. I thought Apple's processors were licensed and based on ARM processors so I would think ARM would be the real target. Apple basically builds its A-series processors for itself but Intel builds many hundreds of millions of processors for dozens of companies. I don't really see how Apple becomes a bigger target than Intel. Anyway, the outcome is yet to be determined. Also, have Qualcomm's Snapdragon and Samsung's Exynos processors escaped this vulnerability since they're not being mentioned? It would be quite amazing if they did escape this flaw. Apple's hardware market share is relatively small but Apple seems to always end up as the leading story for anything that goes wrong. It's seems as though an awful lot of people have their hands out looking for some big payoff.
    No, Apple chips use the ARM instruction set, but they’re in-house proprietary designs. 
  • Reply 20 of 32
    maestro64 said:

    I just like how they are trying to sue over something that has never impacted anyone. But no one sued Microsoft with all their security issues which in fact cost people and companies lost of money and time to deal with, how about when UK heath system was held for ransom do to security flaws in Windows.
    The Windows EULA (where valid) excludes people from filing suit against them for any reason.
    File suit and I wonder how long before your license key is marked as a fake?

    Personally, I strove to make the software I wrote (40+ years) as bug free as possible. One of my systems ran for 4 years without a bug report. That is not to say that there weren't any but the system was never operated in a way as to show them. I know that pretty well any software other than something as basic as
    printing 'Hello World' on the terminal will have bugs. IT is just a question of when they surface rather than 'if'.
    watto_cobra
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