Ins and outs of VBR (variable bit rate)

der kopfder kopf
Posted:
in General Discussion edited January 2014
These days, while ripping some of my ceedees for future accessibility, I wonder what bitrate I should use (that is, while converting to mp3).



I used to have it fixed at 192 kbps, and am/was quite happy with that, but it turns out many people are even going for higher (256 or even 320).



The thing is of course the difficult balancing between space-saving and quality (and as such, I think 320 is really too much).



Anyway, a new way has now come to my attention, be it that this has existed for a long while. VBR-encoding.



I would like to ask of those who know this, what the benefits are/disadvantages. Is it better in attaining the perfect balance between the two mentioned factors: quantity vs. quality? Do I want to use it? Should I? I sure think it looks cool to have every song of an album at a different rate, and then have these rates be far out numbers like 218 and then 189 and so on.

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 17
    eugeneeugene Posts: 8,254member
    There are really no big disadvantages with VBR encoding. You just save bits in certain places that can be used in others.



    My VBR encoded MP3s generally end up being between 220 and 260 kbps. Usually oldies produce lower bitrates. Death metal (aka static) would produce high bitrates...



    And you want to be using the LAME encoder of course.



    [ 12-04-2002: Message edited by: Eugene ]</p>
  • Reply 2 of 17
    der kopfder kopf Posts: 2,275member
    Allright then. What is this LAME encoder (which I have seen mentioned quite often)?
  • Reply 3 of 17
    snazlordsnazlord Posts: 62member
    sounds interesting. how does the encoder choose the bitrate (when using VBR)? And can't iTunes do VBR?
  • Reply 4 of 17
    paulpaul Posts: 5,278member
    [quote]Originally posted by snazlord:

    <strong>sounds interesting. how does the encoder choose the bitrate (when using VBR)? And can't iTunes do VBR?</strong><hr></blockquote>



    iTunes does it... but apparently LAME has a better encoder then iTunes... (I dont know, i use iTunes VBR not lame)



    It is possible to use the LAME encoder within iTunes?
  • Reply 5 of 17
    torifiletorifile Posts: 4,024member
    [quote]Originally posted by der Kopf:

    <strong>Allright then. What is this LAME encoder (which I have seen mentioned quite often)?</strong><hr></blockquote>



    I can't really explain what LAME is, but you can get it <a href="http://www.versiontracker.com/moreinfo.fcgi?id=15055&db=mac"; target="_blank">here</a>. And get the iTunes script <a href="http://www.versiontracker.com/moreinfo.fcgi?id=13048&db=mac"; target="_blank">here</a>. Encoding times vary widely and you'll find so many different opinions about the best options, it'll make your head spin. I just use alt-preset standard and it seems good enough for me. Enjoy.
  • Reply 6 of 17
    torifiletorifile Posts: 4,024member
    [quote]Originally posted by Paul:

    <strong>



    iTunes does it... but apparently LAME has a better encoder then iTunes... (I dont know, i use iTunes VBR not lame)



    It is possible to use the LAME encoder within iTunes?</strong><hr></blockquote>



    You an use a script for use in the terminal. See my previous post for the Applescript to do it.
  • Reply 7 of 17
    eugeneeugene Posts: 8,254member
    If you listen to mp3s with iTunes, turn off Sound Check and the Sound Enhancer. Try listening to some higher frequency vocal music (choir or a capella) with Sound Check on...you'll notice quite a bit of shrill / distortion when people start singing really high. And Sound Enhancer does the same, but worse since it bottoms out your bottoms too.
  • Reply 8 of 17
    cyberuincyberuin Posts: 19member
    You could also try using OGG vorbis. With MP3 some one has to pay royalties somewhere along the line,with ogg this isnt the case and the latest version gives you a lot better sound quality than mp3 at a smaller file size. And a lot of the big companies including games, UT2003, are making the switch to OGG.

    go to <a href="http://www.sourceforge.net"; target="_blank">www.sourceforge.net</a> to check out OGG vorbis.
  • Reply 9 of 17
    paulpaul Posts: 5,278member
    OGG works with iPods?
  • Reply 10 of 17
    stupider...likeafoxstupider...likeafox Posts: 1,618member
    [quote]Originally posted by der Kopf:

    <strong>

    I used to have it fixed at 192 kbps, and am/was quite happy with that

    </strong>

    <hr></blockquote>



    If you are happy with what you have, and assuming that you currently use iTunes I wouldn't think it necessary to switch to lame, just use VBR in iTunes.
  • Reply 11 of 17
    snazlordsnazlord Posts: 62member
    i was playing around with VBR in Lamer and in iTunes last night. it's infinetly more convenient to rip in iTunes (one program, integrates seamlessly into your playlist, keeps all the ID3 tags, etc). But here's the issue:



    if under ripping prefs in iTunes i set the quality to high, unless i also keep the minimum bitrate at around 112kbs or so, the resulting VBR rip will suck. doesn't this defeat the purpose of VBR?



    when i rip with Lamer, the min bitrate is set around 48kbs, and i get great rips, avg bitrate around 160 - 180 (second or third to highest quality setting). If i rip in iTunes on high quality, but lower the min bitrate to 40, the resulting rip has an avg bitrate of 60-70 and sounds like my ass!



    I'd love to just use iTunes. Am i doing something wrong? And if LAME is the best encoder, why doesn't iTunes just use it?
  • Reply 12 of 17
    snazlordsnazlord Posts: 62member
    I just completed a little test comparing:

    1) iTunes VBR encoding (min bitrate 96, quality high)

    2) LAME VBR encoding (using the LAMER GUI for OS 10.2, min bitrate 80, quality one notch down from "highest")

    3) iTunes CBR at fixed 192 bitrate.



    I used the following three songs, trying for a variety of music types:

    - orinoco flow (enya; variable volume, top-40-ish



    - celestial soda pop (ray lynch; some new-age, computer generated song; pure tones, quiet spaces between notes, variable volume)



    - bullet with butterfly wings (smashing pumpkins; lots of loud yelling, etc)



    I ripped/encoded each song from CD into iTunes in each of the above formats, and also as an AIFF (as a CD-quality control.) I then put them all on my iPod, and listened to all of them with the built in iPod earphones in a quiet room.



    I know that for any real audiophiles this is a rather crude test, but for my listening purposes (and I suspect for many others as well) this might be enough.



    RESULTS:

    iTunes VBR gave bitrates around 100 - 110

    LAME VBR gave bitrates around 180 - 220 (smashing pumpkins had highest bitrate)



    iTunes VBR was clearly the worst. There was a clearwarbling sound during isolated vocal segments, like the person was singing underwater. Also, there was a similar warbling sound with some of the percussion/drum beats.



    The LAME VBR was much better; very,very close to the AIFF. The iTunes CBR 192's were also very good. I think the LAME VBR's were maybe a notch above the iTunes CBR 192's, but the difference was minimal.



    BOTTOM LINE: LAME VBR gives the best quality and may save you some space on your hard drive, esp if you're music collection is NOT mainly rock/hard rock (which give higher bitrates with VBR). BUT, if you find it easier to just use iTunes, CBR at 192 is basically just as good.



    [ 12-08-2002: Message edited by: snazlord ]</p>
  • Reply 13 of 17
    der kopfder kopf Posts: 2,275member
    Now that's one of the most sensible posts in a long time, and exactly what I wanted to know.



    Seems I might give LAME a bit of a look with my next rips, but I don't have to go back and rerip it all...



    Thank you Snazlord.
  • Reply 14 of 17
    snazlordsnazlord Posts: 62member
    glad to be of service
  • Reply 15 of 17
    paulpaul Posts: 5,278member
    [quote]Originally posted by snazlord:

    <strong>glad to be of service </strong><hr></blockquote>



    mind doing one more test?

    put VBR iTunes with minimum at 192 at post the file sizes for all three options for all three songs (you should just be able to copy and paste this info from iTunes...)



    thanks



    -Paul
  • Reply 16 of 17
    snazlordsnazlord Posts: 62member
    Paul, here's the test results you requested:



    Orinoco (aiff)---------44.9 MB-----1411 kbps

    Orinoco itunes VBR&gt;96---3.3 MB---100 kbps (VBR)

    Orinoco LAME------------5.8 MB------182 kbps (VBR)

    Orinoco CBR-------------6.1 MB------192 kbps

    Orinoco itunes VBR&gt;192--6.5 MB------201 kbps (VBR)\t

    \t\t

    Soda (aiff)------------47.5 MB------1411 kbps\t\t

    Soda itunes VBR&gt;96------3.5 MB------103 kbps (VBR)

    Soda LAME---------------5.8 MB------171 kbps (VBR)

    Soda CBR 192------------6.5 MB------192 kbps

    Soda itunes VBR&gt;192-------7 MB------206 kbps (VBR)

    \t\t\t

    Bullet (aiff)--------43.4 MB----1411 kbps

    Bullet itunes VBR&gt;96--3.2 MB----103 kbps (VBR)

    Bullet LAME-----------6.3 MB----204 kbps (VBR)

    Bullet CBR 192----------6 MB----192 kbps

    Bullet VBR&gt;192--------6.4 MB----207 kbps (VBR)\t\t\t





    One more thing - I goofed a little on the original test. The iTunes VBR was with a min bitrate of 96, not 112 (i edited the post to reflect the change). Not that it makes much difference. (If anyone was really looking, you might have wondered how the avg bitrate could possibly have been around 100 (100-103) with the MINIMUM bitrate set to 116!)



    With iTunes VBR, min bitrate of 192, the results are similar to CBR 192. But this, IMHO, defeats the purpose of VBR. As you can see, the resulting bitrates are 201-207, and if the min is 192, you're basically getting CBR around 200. (i.e. no real spread) Compared to CBR 192, LAME gives roughly equivalent bitrates, with some minor space saving (e.g. 5.8 MB compared to 6.1 MB for the enya song), but not for the smashing pumpkins.



    One thing that might be interesting: Does anyone know of a program that allows you to graphically depict what the bitrates are at each point during a song? Or what the spread is from min to max bitrate in a particular song?



    [ 12-08-2002: Message edited by: snazlord ]



    [ 12-08-2002: Message edited by: snazlord ]



    [ 12-08-2002: Message edited by: snazlord ]



    [ 12-08-2002: Message edited by: snazlord ]



    [ 12-08-2002: Message edited by: snazlord ]



    [ 12-08-2002: Message edited by: snazlord ]</p>
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