Unless he can come up with a user fixable Mac using current technology I can’t hear him.
What kind of DIY repairs do you do to your tablet? Your phone? Your television? Microwave? Car?
Ah yeah, none.
Appliance computing is here to stay. DIY tinkering isn’t high on their feature set for the customer base. Get a PC and go crazy.
A tablet costs a few hundred dollars. If it breaks you just get a new one. A high end MBP costs well over AUD$5k. In fact spec it out and it is over $7k. These should have a decent shelf life because of that, have a degree of upgradability, and minor stuff not require shipping off somewhere to get fixed or replaced. You know, a proper balance between liberal arts and engineering.
Ive just needs a handler to restore balance to the Mac.
Ive doesn’t run hardware engineering. It’s highly doubtful he (or he alone) decides whether Macs will be user upgradeable/repairable. If anything it’s probably product marketing or finance making the decision as Apple makes a ton of money off of RAM and other upgrades.
Paranoid nonsense. "Marketing! Marketing" doesnt decide how the machines are built. Apple switched to integrated storage because its faster, more reliable, and more compact. Not "because marketing!!"
You need to get over your irrational dislike for Schiller. You're constantly painting a picture of him twirling a waxed mustache trying to trick you...it's absurd.
Unless he can come up with a user fixable Mac using current technology I can’t hear him.
What kind of DIY repairs do you do to your tablet? Your phone? Your television? Microwave? Car?
Ah yeah, none.
Appliance computing is here to stay. DIY tinkering isn’t high on their feature set for the customer base. Get a PC and go crazy.
Are you saying that you wouldn't be able to do basic repairs on a late model vehicle? I'm not talking about rebuilding a transmission but just general garden variety repairs.
I've changed the oil and even the brakes, but those are consumables and akin to swapping a battery. Anything more intense than that, such as a water pump, or heck even the spark plugs in some models, requires far too much disassembly of the engine, too many tools, too much time, and experience. Nope. Normals don't do that sort of thing and neither do they replace graphics cards on their MBPs. Total PITA.
Higher performing machines in small packages are worth the compromise of leaving repairs to technicians. See cars.
Unless he can come up with a user fixable Mac using current technology I can’t hear him.
What kind of DIY repairs do you do to your tablet? Your phone? Your television? Microwave? Car?
Ah yeah, none.
Appliance computing is here to stay. DIY tinkering isn’t high on their feature set for the customer base. Get a PC and go crazy.
I have my TV torn apart, replacing the back light, I can attach a picture if you need proof. Microwave? Pretty easy to repair. Car? Maintenance all the time. Repairs from time to time, rarely does it go to the shop unless I am too busy.
You aren't he, and car maintenance isn't the same as engine compartment repairs. Even still, most people do not do these. Normals, certainly will not do these things.
Your personal anecdote is worthless. If you want to be a DIY tinkerer, have at it. But don't pretend Apple should cater its product design to you, the absolute minority of customers.
Unless he can come up with a user fixable Mac using current technology I can’t hear him.
What kind of DIY repairs do you do to your tablet? Your phone? Your television? Microwave? Car?
Ah yeah, none.
Appliance computing is here to stay. DIY tinkering isn’t high on their feature set for the customer base. Get a PC and go crazy.
A tablet costs a few hundred dollars. If it breaks you just get a new one. A high end MBP costs well over AUD$5k. In fact spec it out and it is over $7k. These should have a decent shelf life because of that, have a degree of upgradability, and minor stuff not require shipping off somewhere to get fixed or replaced. You know, a proper balance between liberal arts and engineering.
Ive just needs a handler to restore balance to the Mac.
I paid more than that for my car and I can't fix it not like back in the 70's so what that's called progress, now you can't fix your so high priced computer so what that's called progress, like StrangeDays said get a pc and fix it all you want......
You can get your car fixed anywhere, and you could still fix minor issues and replace wearing out components yourself.
You can replace wearing out components like mobile batteries yourself, but that isn't the same as *repair*.
And you can get your Mac fixed anywhere too. That's the entire point -- repair techs can readily fix them, even if it's too much work for normals.
Unless he can come up with a user fixable Mac using current technology I can’t hear him.
What kind of DIY repairs do you do to your tablet? Your phone? Your television? Microwave? Car?
Ah yeah, none.
Appliance computing is here to stay. DIY tinkering isn’t high on their feature set for the customer base. Get a PC and go crazy.
A tablet costs a few hundred dollars. If it breaks you just get a new one. A high end MBP costs well over AUD$5k. In fact spec it out and it is over $7k. These should have a decent shelf life because of that, have a degree of upgradability, and minor stuff not require shipping off somewhere to get fixed or replaced. You know, a proper balance between liberal arts and engineering.
Ive just needs a handler to restore balance to the Mac.
Ive doesn’t run hardware engineering. It’s highly doubtful he (or he alone) decides whether Macs will be user upgradeable/repairable. If anything it’s probably product marketing or finance making the decision as Apple makes a ton of money off of RAM and other upgrades.
You realise that one of the traditional strengths of Apple design is the coherent integration of great design and engineering, from hardware to software. It’s the main reason why people really love macs.
It’s also why people are bitching. Apple has been so good at getting the balance right in the past that it is expected. And because at the moment the balance at that intersection of engineering and liberal arts is currently out of whack with too much emphasis on form to the detriment of other attributes.
edit: Ive was at his best when he had Steve Jobs to keep him grounded. That supply chain guru can’t work out the right frame of reference to manage an artiste.
I agree that Steve was the rock that kept Ive from going off in the wrong direction. I’m not sure whose task it is at Apple these days to think of new form factors, explore new markets and literally invent new things customers MUST have, because even though the Watch slowly continues to improve, it’s not an example of brand new ground being broken.
So just because you personally don't know who's working on new, unknown things and form factors within Apple, we're to believe they therefore do not exist? Yeah, no.
Unless he can come up with a user fixable Mac using current technology I can’t hear him.
What kind of DIY repairs do you do to your tablet? Your phone? Your television? Microwave? Car?
Ah yeah, none.
...
Its funny, because apart from the microwave, because i do not own one, i have taken apart & repaired every item you mentioned in the past year! Screens, batteries, capacitors, radiators, fuel injectors, shift linkages...
Personally, i think many people are complaining simply to hear the sound of their own keys tapping away, but there are some of us that genuinely love taking things apart & fixing them.
You're completely delusional if you think most car owners will repair capacitors, fuel injectors, and shift linkages.
You're demonstrating your failure to grasp the concept. It's not that these things *can't* be repaired, they can -- just as Macs can be repaired. It's that they aren't designed for normals to do so easily because normals have no interest in doing so.
Unless he can come up with a user fixable Mac using current technology I can’t hear him.
What kind of DIY repairs do you do to your tablet? Your phone? Your television? Microwave? Car?
Ah yeah, none.
Appliance computing is here to stay. DIY tinkering isn’t high on their feature set for the customer base. Get a PC and go crazy.
A tablet costs a few hundred dollars. If it breaks you just get a new one. A high end MBP costs well over AUD$5k. In fact spec it out and it is over $7k. These should have a decent shelf life because of that, have a degree of upgradability, and minor stuff not require shipping off somewhere to get fixed or replaced. You know, a proper balance between liberal arts and engineering.
Ive just needs a handler to restore balance to the Mac.
Ive doesn’t run hardware engineering. It’s highly doubtful he (or he alone) decides whether Macs will be user upgradeable/repairable. If anything it’s probably product marketing or finance making the decision as Apple makes a ton of money off of RAM and other upgrades.
You realise that one of the traditional strengths of Apple design is the coherent integration of great design and engineering, from hardware to software. It’s the main reason why people really love macs.
It’s also why people are bitching. Apple has been so good at getting the balance right in the past that it is expected. And because at the moment the balance at that intersection of engineering and liberal arts is currently out of whack with too much emphasis on form to the detriment of other attributes.
edit: Ive was at his best when he had Steve Jobs to keep him grounded. That supply chain guru can’t work out the right frame of reference to manage an artiste.
Again, I’d argue Phil Schiller’s product marketing team makes a lot of these decisions. They certainly make decisions on what features to include and what price to set. I think it’s highly unlikely Jony Ive is deciding how many ports a laptop will have or if the RAM is user replaceable or not. I’m not saying the guy doesn’t have power inside Apple (he got a gold Apple Watch after all) but I think some of the decisions attributed to him are coming from other parts of the organization.
And yet, you will never be able to provide a single shred of evidence that "marketing!!" is making engineering decisions. Making your conspiracy theory worthless.
I do understand some things: when design favors not the user, but the vendor (because you can find a potential way the vendor profits from it): dongle hell for iPhones and Macs. Then back panel of iPhone X that is more expensive to replace than front panel. A keyboard key that needs the entire top case to be replaced, including the battery. Others for which there are no ways for Apple to profit: "designing yourself in a corner" on the Mac Pro (and that's the most charitable way of putting it). These are design principles and convictions taken to the absurd. Ignoring users' most asked for feature: more battery life. That's why I don't care for philosophical design BS from Ive.
And yet, battery life on iPhone has been rising, not falling. So much for your theory.
I have no such dongle hell on my iPhone nor my MBP. Get the appropriate cables. As a pro software dev I've never needed a consumer memory card slot. In the case of my X, there's simply no need to use a dongle, it gets amazing battery life and I use wireless headphones (tho I used the freebie wired ones for a spell as well).
If you think Apple hardware is engineered to gather the minute revenue generated from repairs, which is a rounding error, you're crazy.
Unless he can come up with a user fixable Mac using current technology I can’t hear him.
What kind of DIY repairs do you do to your tablet? Your phone? Your television? Microwave? Car?
Ah yeah, none.
Appliance computing is here to stay. DIY tinkering isn’t high on their feature set for the customer base. Get a PC and go crazy.
A tablet costs a few hundred dollars. If it breaks you just get a new one. A high end MBP costs well over AUD$5k. In fact spec it out and it is over $7k. These should have a decent shelf life because of that, have a degree of upgradability, and minor stuff not require shipping off somewhere to get fixed or replaced. You know, a proper balance between liberal arts and engineering.
Ive just needs a handler to restore balance to the Mac.
Ive doesn’t run hardware engineering. It’s highly doubtful he (or he alone) decides whether Macs will be user upgradeable/repairable. If anything it’s probably product marketing or finance making the decision as Apple makes a ton of money off of RAM and other upgrades.
Paranoid nonsense. "Marketing! Marketing" doesnt decide how the machines are built. Apple switched to integrated storage because its faster, more reliable, and more compact. Not "because marketing!!"
You need to get over your irrational dislike for Schiller. You're constantly painting a picture of him twirling a waxed mustache trying to trick you...it's absurd.
Schiller’s product marketing team is not marketing in the traditional sense. Marco Arment, John Gruber and Rene Ritchie have all talked about how powerful Schiller’s org is. I never said his team decides how machines are built. I said they have a huge say in what features are offered and how prices are set. No way is industrial design deciding how many ports a laptop has or whether the iPhone has a headphone jack or not.
Unless he can come up with a user fixable Mac using current technology I can’t hear him.
What kind of DIY repairs do you do to your tablet? Your phone? Your television? Microwave? Car?
Ah yeah, none.
Appliance computing is here to stay. DIY tinkering isn’t high on their feature set for the customer base. Get a PC and go crazy.
A tablet costs a few hundred dollars. If it breaks you just get a new one. A high end MBP costs well over AUD$5k. In fact spec it out and it is over $7k. These should have a decent shelf life because of that, have a degree of upgradability, and minor stuff not require shipping off somewhere to get fixed or replaced. You know, a proper balance between liberal arts and engineering.
Ive just needs a handler to restore balance to the Mac.
Ive doesn’t run hardware engineering. It’s highly doubtful he (or he alone) decides whether Macs will be user upgradeable/repairable. If anything it’s probably product marketing or finance making the decision as Apple makes a ton of money off of RAM and other upgrades.
Jony Ive's design group is probably the most influential group inside all of Apple. If they wanted user-upgradeable devices, I'm willing to bet they would get it.
People say that but I’m not so sure it’s true, especially now that Steve’s gone. I would argue the most important group inside Apple is Phil Schiller’s product marketing team. Anyway this isn’t something unique to Apple. Microsoft’s Surface line gets just as bad of not worse ratings from iFixit.
Yes, product line management, is they key function at Apple. That was where Jobs had his impact.
I would say Apple is a design-centered company. Per Isaacson's book, Steve Jobs left Jony Ive with more operational power than anyone else in the company.
I know Jobs said that but what exactly does it mean? That Ive decides whether the MBP keeps USB-A ports or not? Or the iPhone a headphone jack? Somehow I doubt industrial design is making those decisions. For as powerful as Ive allegedly is if you watch that 60 Minutes Apple profile from a couple years ago there is video footage of Cook’s Monday executive meeting. Every SVP (including Angela Ahrendts) is in the room except one: Ive.
Unless he can come up with a user fixable Mac using current technology I can’t hear him.
What kind of DIY repairs do you do to your tablet? Your phone? Your television? Microwave? Car?
Ah yeah, none.
Appliance computing is here to stay. DIY tinkering isn’t high on their feature set for the customer base. Get a PC and go crazy.
A tablet costs a few hundred dollars. If it breaks you just get a new one. A high end MBP costs well over AUD$5k. In fact spec it out and it is over $7k. These should have a decent shelf life because of that, have a degree of upgradability, and minor stuff not require shipping off somewhere to get fixed or replaced. You know, a proper balance between liberal arts and engineering.
Ive just needs a handler to restore balance to the Mac.
Ive doesn’t run hardware engineering. It’s highly doubtful he (or he alone) decides whether Macs will be user upgradeable/repairable. If anything it’s probably product marketing or finance making the decision as Apple makes a ton of money off of RAM and other upgrades.
You realise that one of the traditional strengths of Apple design is the coherent integration of great design and engineering, from hardware to software. It’s the main reason why people really love macs.
It’s also why people are bitching. Apple has been so good at getting the balance right in the past that it is expected. And because at the moment the balance at that intersection of engineering and liberal arts is currently out of whack with too much emphasis on form to the detriment of other attributes.
edit: Ive was at his best when he had Steve Jobs to keep him grounded. That supply chain guru can’t work out the right frame of reference to manage an artiste.
I agree that Steve was the rock that kept Ive from going off in the wrong direction. I’m not sure whose task it is at Apple these days to think of new form factors, explore new markets and literally invent new things customers MUST have, because even though the Watch slowly continues to improve, it’s not an example of brand new ground being broken.
So just because you personally don't know who's working on new, unknown things and form factors within Apple, we're to believe they therefore do not exist? Yeah, no.
What are you babbling on about? I asked who IS responsible for these things now? A person? Multiple people? No one? Everyone?
Surely Tim has the final say, but he’s no innovator, he’s a supply chain guy.
Unless he can come up with a user fixable Mac using current technology I can’t hear him.
What kind of DIY repairs do you do to your tablet? Your phone? Your television? Microwave? Car?
Ah yeah, none.
Appliance computing is here to stay. DIY tinkering isn’t high on their feature set for the customer base. Get a PC and go crazy.
A tablet costs a few hundred dollars. If it breaks you just get a new one. A high end MBP costs well over AUD$5k. In fact spec it out and it is over $7k. These should have a decent shelf life because of that, have a degree of upgradability, and minor stuff not require shipping off somewhere to get fixed or replaced. You know, a proper balance between liberal arts and engineering.
Ive just needs a handler to restore balance to the Mac.
Ive doesn’t run hardware engineering. It’s highly doubtful he (or he alone) decides whether Macs will be user upgradeable/repairable. If anything it’s probably product marketing or finance making the decision as Apple makes a ton of money off of RAM and other upgrades.
Paranoid nonsense. "Marketing! Marketing" doesnt decide how the machines are built. Apple switched to integrated storage because its faster, more reliable, and more compact. Not "because marketing!!"
You need to get over your irrational dislike for Schiller. You're constantly painting a picture of him twirling a waxed mustache trying to trick you...it's absurd.
The key word in "marketing" is market .... And what does that constitute... Well users.
Users wants a faster machine, maybe a more reliable machine few actually give a shit about how that will come about (worrying about Gb, ports, or whatever is left to other brands), and maybe "marketing" discovers that because that's their job (product line management).
Apple centers on use cases rather than techhead stuff; accidentally they sometimes fullfill techhead dreams but only if its in the service of a broader goal.
There is nothing wrong with saying Apple is a market centric company, Jobs had improving the user experience and even life at the center of Apple's reason for being, and it's not certainly not engineering that will take care of serving that need ;-).
Serving the market is serving the user, delighting them so much they're ready to pay more money than anyone else for your product.
Engineering, design, retail are in service of the user; that's quite the opposite from almost all other tech firms, many of whom would do much better if they did more marketing and communication.
Responding to users in the market with one or many products that serve his needs and changes his life, and communicating to these users that Apple serves those needs, is a part of marketing and Jobs was very good at it.
Unless he can come up with a user fixable Mac using current technology I can’t hear him.
What kind of DIY repairs do you do to your tablet? Your phone? Your television? Microwave? Car?
Ah yeah, none.
Appliance computing is here to stay. DIY tinkering isn’t high on their feature set for the customer base. Get a PC and go crazy.
A tablet costs a few hundred dollars. If it breaks you just get a new one. A high end MBP costs well over AUD$5k. In fact spec it out and it is over $7k. These should have a decent shelf life because of that, have a degree of upgradability, and minor stuff not require shipping off somewhere to get fixed or replaced. You know, a proper balance between liberal arts and engineering.
Ive just needs a handler to restore balance to the Mac.
Ive doesn’t run hardware engineering. It’s highly doubtful he (or he alone) decides whether Macs will be user upgradeable/repairable. If anything it’s probably product marketing or finance making the decision as Apple makes a ton of money off of RAM and other upgrades.
You realise that one of the traditional strengths of Apple design is the coherent integration of great design and engineering, from hardware to software. It’s the main reason why people really love macs.
It’s also why people are bitching. Apple has been so good at getting the balance right in the past that it is expected. And because at the moment the balance at that intersection of engineering and liberal arts is currently out of whack with too much emphasis on form to the detriment of other attributes.
edit: Ive was at his best when he had Steve Jobs to keep him grounded. That supply chain guru can’t work out the right frame of reference to manage an artiste.
Again, I’d argue Phil Schiller’s product marketing team makes a lot of these decisions. They certainly make decisions on what features to include and what price to set. I think it’s highly unlikely Jony Ive is deciding how many ports a laptop will have or if the RAM is user replaceable or not. I’m not saying the guy doesn’t have power inside Apple (he got a gold Apple Watch after all) but I think some of the decisions attributed to him are coming from other parts of the organization.
The main decision taken is what purpose do most users use this device for, what more would they want it to do. If 95% of users want an hyperlight devices for basic productivity, this alone will dictate a huge lot of engineering decisions. The key driver is the user/
Comments
Paranoid nonsense. "Marketing! Marketing" doesnt decide how the machines are built. Apple switched to integrated storage because its faster, more reliable, and more compact. Not "because marketing!!"
You need to get over your irrational dislike for Schiller. You're constantly painting a picture of him twirling a waxed mustache trying to trick you...it's absurd.
I've changed the oil and even the brakes, but those are consumables and akin to swapping a battery. Anything more intense than that, such as a water pump, or heck even the spark plugs in some models, requires far too much disassembly of the engine, too many tools, too much time, and experience. Nope. Normals don't do that sort of thing and neither do they replace graphics cards on their MBPs. Total PITA.
Higher performing machines in small packages are worth the compromise of leaving repairs to technicians. See cars.
You aren't he, and car maintenance isn't the same as engine compartment repairs. Even still, most people do not do these. Normals, certainly will not do these things.
Your personal anecdote is worthless. If you want to be a DIY tinkerer, have at it. But don't pretend Apple should cater its product design to you, the absolute minority of customers.
And you can get your Mac fixed anywhere too. That's the entire point -- repair techs can readily fix them, even if it's too much work for normals.
So just because you personally don't know who's working on new, unknown things and form factors within Apple, we're to believe they therefore do not exist? Yeah, no.
You're completely delusional if you think most car owners will repair capacitors, fuel injectors, and shift linkages.
You're demonstrating your failure to grasp the concept. It's not that these things *can't* be repaired, they can -- just as Macs can be repaired. It's that they aren't designed for normals to do so easily because normals have no interest in doing so.
And yet, you will never be able to provide a single shred of evidence that "marketing!!" is making engineering decisions. Making your conspiracy theory worthless.
And yet, battery life on iPhone has been rising, not falling. So much for your theory.
I have no such dongle hell on my iPhone nor my MBP. Get the appropriate cables. As a pro software dev I've never needed a consumer memory card slot. In the case of my X, there's simply no need to use a dongle, it gets amazing battery life and I use wireless headphones (tho I used the freebie wired ones for a spell as well).
If you think Apple hardware is engineered to gather the minute revenue generated from repairs, which is a rounding error, you're crazy.
Surely Tim has the final say, but he’s no innovator, he’s a supply chain guy.