Airborne lost my G4 Powerbook and Apple couldn't care less.
To whom it may concern,
\tThe purpose of this letter is to outline a fiasco that I've had with Apple Computer and their contract carrier, Airborne Express. Neither of which seems to care about reimbursing me for my loss, a seven month old 800Mhz G4 Powerbook.
\tDuring the first few weeks of May, 2002 - when the new DVI G4 Powerbook models shipped - I promptly bought the 800mhz ($3200) model at the Tyson's Corner Apple store. Roughly after two months, I began to have what many TiBook owners have discovered, the notorious paint chipping problems. Not only was it chipping but it was bubbling up, only to get worse. I was able to tolerate it until I read on the internet that Apple was indeed replacing the problem top case. Apparently on the newer rev D models, the paint problems have been solved and Apple was now replacing previous defective parts. I personally returned to the Apple Store in Tysons Corner to confirm that Apple was honoring the repair. I was greeted by two geniuses who at first said, "sorry - Apple is not replacing that part." I had to literally argue with them to check the knowledge base to verify that I was right. After five minutes of searching, they ate their words and said they would replace the part but it had to be sent to Texas for the repair. I said fine and that I would call Apple to arrange the repair at a later date. Further more, during this time the hard drive also decided to go south. After doing two zero all data initializations and system reinstalls, the 'grinding' hard drive continued to worsen. I now had TWO solid reasons to send my TiBook back to Apple for warranty repairs.
\tOne week before Christmas, I sent it in with specific instructions to replace the hard drive and top case. The carrier that Apple had deliver the box was Airborne Express. I received the TiBook back on Christmas eve with a very giddy feeling - until I opened the box. Apple had replaced the hard drive and the logic board - but not the top case! I immediately called Apple furious, inquiring why my repair was not done correctly. They had no excuse, only that they would arrange to send out a second box and repair it a second time. So, while waiting for the second box over the Christmas holiday, I proceeded to get my TiBook back up and running with 10.2 and setting up and installing all my applications, email, etc. (after-all, Apple would just be replacing the top case). I send it out to Apple a second time on December 30th. A few days later I tracked it inbound through Airborn's web site and watch it arrive in my town 7:55 AM January 3rd, 2003. Naturally, I anticipated the delivery of my TiBook that afternoon. I never saw it again.
\tAfter four calls to Airborne on both January the 3rd (Friday) and the 6th (Monday), I eventually got a Airborne representative to admit that it had been lost. No more detail were given. On Tuesday the 7th, I followed up with Airborne again and they informed me that not only were they involved in a search for the lost package, but they were reviewing surveillance tapes for possible theft at the depot. They told me standard procedure in instances like this was they would reimburse Apple and Apple would reimburse me. I promptly called Apple to get to the bottom of this. After speaking to multiple Apple representatives, two individuals told me they would be handling this case - Cindy Light and Scott Sellman. Cindy Light told me that Apple would do there own investigation and that after roughly seven days, I would be reimbursed with a newer 867Mhz G4 Powerbook. However, after more than two weeks and multiple messages left with each individual - neither has returned my calls or left messages with at least an update. Getting no where with Apple, I called my contact at Airborne again. She informed me that Apple had filed 'something' with them on January 16th - nine days after I reported the loss with Apple.
\tCall me impatient, but I feel I should not have to put up with this! Apple prides it self on quality support, but I can't get anywhere with them. Now for the REAL kicker. I'm an Apple authorized desktop and portable technician working for one of the DC area's premier Apple/Macintosh support and consulting firms. Not only do I work with hundreds, if not thousands of Mac users in my area, I influence their purchasing decisions and often sell over $20,000 worth of Apple hardware a month! I could have originally performed the work myself and never had been in this situation (But Apple has ALL laptop repairs sent to Texas). Further more, if Apple had fixed it right the first time, I wouldn't be in this situation.
\tHere's a few words for you Steve, I have nothing good to say about your company and the people in it. They have treated me with nothing but contempt and arrogance whenever I call for warranty repairs. Furthermore, the incompetence and attitude of not caring makes me sick! I have praised Apple computer for the last ten years, owning over 10 Macs myself and converting ALL my friends to Mac users and this is the respect I get!? If I get a 1Ghz G4 Powerbook in the end as compensation, I'll be mildly happy. I love Apple products but the people in the organization need to learn what quality service is really about.
Needless to say, I still don't have a replacement Powerbook. Want to contact me? [email protected]
[mod edit]
Sorry man, I can't keep looking at that "could care less"...
[ 01-23-2003: Message edited by: murbot ]</p>
\tThe purpose of this letter is to outline a fiasco that I've had with Apple Computer and their contract carrier, Airborne Express. Neither of which seems to care about reimbursing me for my loss, a seven month old 800Mhz G4 Powerbook.
\tDuring the first few weeks of May, 2002 - when the new DVI G4 Powerbook models shipped - I promptly bought the 800mhz ($3200) model at the Tyson's Corner Apple store. Roughly after two months, I began to have what many TiBook owners have discovered, the notorious paint chipping problems. Not only was it chipping but it was bubbling up, only to get worse. I was able to tolerate it until I read on the internet that Apple was indeed replacing the problem top case. Apparently on the newer rev D models, the paint problems have been solved and Apple was now replacing previous defective parts. I personally returned to the Apple Store in Tysons Corner to confirm that Apple was honoring the repair. I was greeted by two geniuses who at first said, "sorry - Apple is not replacing that part." I had to literally argue with them to check the knowledge base to verify that I was right. After five minutes of searching, they ate their words and said they would replace the part but it had to be sent to Texas for the repair. I said fine and that I would call Apple to arrange the repair at a later date. Further more, during this time the hard drive also decided to go south. After doing two zero all data initializations and system reinstalls, the 'grinding' hard drive continued to worsen. I now had TWO solid reasons to send my TiBook back to Apple for warranty repairs.
\tOne week before Christmas, I sent it in with specific instructions to replace the hard drive and top case. The carrier that Apple had deliver the box was Airborne Express. I received the TiBook back on Christmas eve with a very giddy feeling - until I opened the box. Apple had replaced the hard drive and the logic board - but not the top case! I immediately called Apple furious, inquiring why my repair was not done correctly. They had no excuse, only that they would arrange to send out a second box and repair it a second time. So, while waiting for the second box over the Christmas holiday, I proceeded to get my TiBook back up and running with 10.2 and setting up and installing all my applications, email, etc. (after-all, Apple would just be replacing the top case). I send it out to Apple a second time on December 30th. A few days later I tracked it inbound through Airborn's web site and watch it arrive in my town 7:55 AM January 3rd, 2003. Naturally, I anticipated the delivery of my TiBook that afternoon. I never saw it again.
\tAfter four calls to Airborne on both January the 3rd (Friday) and the 6th (Monday), I eventually got a Airborne representative to admit that it had been lost. No more detail were given. On Tuesday the 7th, I followed up with Airborne again and they informed me that not only were they involved in a search for the lost package, but they were reviewing surveillance tapes for possible theft at the depot. They told me standard procedure in instances like this was they would reimburse Apple and Apple would reimburse me. I promptly called Apple to get to the bottom of this. After speaking to multiple Apple representatives, two individuals told me they would be handling this case - Cindy Light and Scott Sellman. Cindy Light told me that Apple would do there own investigation and that after roughly seven days, I would be reimbursed with a newer 867Mhz G4 Powerbook. However, after more than two weeks and multiple messages left with each individual - neither has returned my calls or left messages with at least an update. Getting no where with Apple, I called my contact at Airborne again. She informed me that Apple had filed 'something' with them on January 16th - nine days after I reported the loss with Apple.
\tCall me impatient, but I feel I should not have to put up with this! Apple prides it self on quality support, but I can't get anywhere with them. Now for the REAL kicker. I'm an Apple authorized desktop and portable technician working for one of the DC area's premier Apple/Macintosh support and consulting firms. Not only do I work with hundreds, if not thousands of Mac users in my area, I influence their purchasing decisions and often sell over $20,000 worth of Apple hardware a month! I could have originally performed the work myself and never had been in this situation (But Apple has ALL laptop repairs sent to Texas). Further more, if Apple had fixed it right the first time, I wouldn't be in this situation.
\tHere's a few words for you Steve, I have nothing good to say about your company and the people in it. They have treated me with nothing but contempt and arrogance whenever I call for warranty repairs. Furthermore, the incompetence and attitude of not caring makes me sick! I have praised Apple computer for the last ten years, owning over 10 Macs myself and converting ALL my friends to Mac users and this is the respect I get!? If I get a 1Ghz G4 Powerbook in the end as compensation, I'll be mildly happy. I love Apple products but the people in the organization need to learn what quality service is really about.
Needless to say, I still don't have a replacement Powerbook. Want to contact me? [email protected]
[mod edit]
Sorry man, I can't keep looking at that "could care less"...
[ 01-23-2003: Message edited by: murbot ]</p>
Comments
It's not your fault that the machine broke down nor is it your fault that someone at Airborne stole it (or lost it). Apple obviously doesn't pride itself on it's tech support any more and it seems like they haven't for years. If they did have any pride at all, there wouldn't be all of these nightmare stories.
When I talked to Apple today (again) about my DVD-ROM not working, I put it to them very simple.
I said, "Look. I'm a very unhappy customer. My PowerBook was just at your service center in Texas last week and the problem was not fixed. I even jumped through your hoops to prove the drive doesn't work by going to an Apple authorized dealer to have them look at it. But to tell me I have to wait 5 weeks to get a new DVD-ROM drive is absurd. My $3500 computer that has a $300 tech support policy is broken. You can't tell me that I have to wait 5 weeks to install software I need right now. I need a solution and I need it immediately."
At this point the $503 DVD-ROM drives were no longer 'out of stock' and one should be arriving to me soon.
If I were you, I'd take the same approach. You should tell them that you are the customer and that you had to send (at great inconvenience) your very expensive computer out to be fixed because of mistakes Apple made.
As far as you should be concerned, the computer was never returned to you and you should be on the phone saying that you need a computer and you need it now. After all, it's not your fault.
Do the best you can with the phone people and hopefully this ludicrous situation will be resolved. It doesn't always work (as exampled by my own prior experiences) but it doesn't hurt to try.
the problem here is that you've had problems with both apple and airborne, and neither one has performed to your satisfaction. however, it strikes me that you're blaming the wrong party for the most significant problem.
for example, on Apple's end they've done the following.
first there were the Geniuses who told you the wrong information about replacing a part.
solution?
they checked, found out they were wrong and said they would replace it although the unit had to be shipped to Texas.
quite frankly i'm not surprised by this. keeping up with every single change in policy that comes down the line is tough, and Apple had a long policy stating they would NOT replace the parts due to paint issues. in the end they found the right answer, and it sounds like you were satisfied.
second problem: apple said they'd repair the paint and drive issues. they only repaired the drive issue. you called them up, they apologized and said they would repair the paint problems. this is a little more serious. they should have gotten the repair done right the first time, but with a machine that has a serious problem like a drive not working at all, it's understandable that a purely cosmetic problem is overlooked. (esp. after they'd spent so much time telling people that chipped paint wasn't a defect, and this had just recently changed)
the solution to me was acceptable. they apologized and said they'd fix it.
the next part is where is starts to get bad. now not to be a prick, but if you're an apple authorized technician, you should know better than to ship off a machine without backing up your data, but what's done is done, so the machine gets shipped off w/o a backup.
now we hit the real problem. the unit made it to apple, was repaired, given back to Airborne express and then NOT delivered.
now apple makes its final mistake. you called and they promised to call you back, and send a new machine. they didn't call back, and you don't have a new machine yet. the callback is understandable, although annoying. i'm sure those reps. are swamped with calls. most call centers are horribly understaffed.
as for the new machine? this is where i think your anger is being misplaced.
the fact is, Airborne Express lost your machine, not Apple. they are responsible for it once they take it from the Apple repair group. you should be bitching out Airborne Express about losing your machine, and checking with them about a replacement. you said that Apple filed "something" with them, do you know for sure what it is? it could be they found out it was theft, and that AE is supposed to cover it then. could be that AE lost the package, and is required to cover the lost item.
right now your beef is with AE, they're the ones responsible for losing your laptop, not Apple. if AE screwed up, they are likely the ones who will have to replace your machine, not Apple. what you need to do is get on the phone with them and check as to the status of your replacement machine.
say for example in Fran's case that he sent back that defective drive and AE lost it. would he be responisble for repaying that, or would AE? same thing here.
you have every right to be pissed, you're just barking up the wrong tree IMO.
Second 2 weeks haven't passed since you contacted Apple on the 7th and only just 2 weeks since contacting AE on the 3rd regarding the loss.
Now with regards to the lost Powerbook Apple on original contact stated a time frame of roughly 7 days. Assume for an instant that's working days, which would be a fair assumption, and 9 days to file a request, which they would have needed to wait for the completion of the investigation to do, is a touch slow but not too bad.
Could they manage it better? Certainly but really Apple has so far stuck to what it said on that final incident. In all honesty customer service is an area where a lot of companies tend to fall short and most often for the same reason Apple has here, poor communication. I've never experienced that with Apple but certainly it does happen in any company. Apple simply should be keeping you better apprised of what is going on.
What I will say is by the sounds of it you are understandably upset. Unfortunately it also sounds like you've been chasing it up a little too much. In your own words, "after more than two weeks and multiple messages left with each individual". Your pestering won't speed the processes up (initially) and as the old adage says, "A watched pot never boils." Polite and civil phone manners will normally get you a great deal further than a tirade. If that really doesn't work just quote the appropriate act of law.
You've had a bad experience and I sympathise. I know it really can get on your nerves as I've had a few dreadful experiences with another company. I'd say you have just jumped the gun a touch though. You're eager for resolution but by the sounds of it processes are proceeding relatively normally.
If I were you my main complaint would be with AE for having taken 4 days to tell you the package was lost and what was going to happen.
Edit: Just to add one last thing late last year I was awaiting an important package from the States when 2 weeks after it was shipped it still hadn't arrived. I was expecting priority post but sometimes for various reasons they have to ship it via other methods that take up to 10 days. My error here was being too busy to chase it up sooner.
After contacting the sender stateside I got the tracking details and found initial delivery had failed since nobody was present to sign for it (this wasn't quite accurate). This is right when the fun part started since no card was ever left (you'll see why in a sec).
After calling around I discovered 2 centers are responsible for delivery to my area and neither would take responsibilty for even having ever possessed it although one eventually fed me a load of lies to try and get me off their back.
After the best part of a week and no progress I had the bright idea of calling center office and checking who it was dispatched through until I was blocked and told I had to file for a formal investigation and for the insurance to be paid to gain access to that.
Now ultimately at this point the sender had no responsibility at all for that package once it was sent. They did their part and made sure it made it to the carrier. I could arrange for them to hassle the carrier stateside, which I did and an investigation was carried out from their side, but they had no liability. Furthermore, my anger would have been misplaced if aimed at them since they really did nothing wrong (tracking details when it shipped might have been nice but I could have asked).
Anyway end result is a week later the package mysteriously turned up marked, "No Such Address", hence why you conduct an investigation before paying out the insurance.
Only difference between my case and your's is that insurance goes to Apple then they reimburse you with a new machine. Apple still needs to wait on AE and AE is ultimately liable.
[ 01-18-2003: Message edited by: Telomar ]</p>
I have to disagree with you here. I'd say it's up to Apple to deal with Airborne Express. After all, if I sell something on eBay and send it off to my customer and it doesn't reach it's destination, I can't tell that customer that he has to deal with the problem. It's actually up to me (the seller) to try and get my money back from Airborne and to send the seller another product (or a refund) in the meantime.
The point isn't that AE is responsible here because we already know they are. The point is that it's Apple's responsibility to get him a working machine as AE is going to be paying Apple in the end any way. Apple is the company with the lawyers and people who will be able to deal with Airborne without issue.
Also don't forget that they are also the ones who will have to send out a new computer in the end any way. So what's the holdup? It's not the customer's fault that something Apple shipped out was stolen and they have the responsibility to get him a new laptop.
For the record - I didn't loose any data. I have a backup 400Mhz G4 tower that I've been using in the interim. It DOES piss me off that I've had to change all my email passwords, FTP password etc. just as a precaution. And I can't sleep too well knowing that someone else might be sifting through my files, past emails, etc.
During this entire charade, I've been very civel when dealing with all parties involved, but as a customer service rep myself (trained at corporate America's finest - General Electric) I think this kind of service is unacceptable. Apple will get reimbursed in the end, their number one concern should be replacing MY laptop asap. Not after some lengthy investigation.
...i've seen how this stuff works first hand, and the squeeky wheel gest the greese, but too loud and it gets put on the bottom of the pile for things to do
You call a laptop being lost/stolen a 'slight problem'?
Apple should do the right thing here and get him his new laptop. They will be getting there money and it's up to Apple, not the customer, to sort out these things with Airborne Express.
<strong>
Apple should do the right thing here and get him his new laptop. They will be getting there money and it's up to Apple, not the customer, to sort out these things with Airborne Express.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Unfortunately I don't think I've ever seen a case that works like that. You see if the laptop turned up 5 days into the investigation and Apple has already dispatched a new laptop they end up out of pocket because AE can refuse to reimburse them.
Whenever something is lost in the mail you have to go through that crap procedure pretty much <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" /> Apple should have kept him more readily updated but hopefully it is resolved soon. I would expect something early next week.
Now if they lose your next one as it gets mailed to you I'd say you have reason to go thoroughly ballistic
[ 01-18-2003: Message edited by: Telomar ]</p>
In Apple's defense, some of the above comments are correct: They're not going to give you another machine until they're damn-well sure that the other one is gone, and they've secured reimbursement from AE.
Sounds like you are just going to have to sit on it, and be as gracious as possible in your regular phone calls and e-mails to request an update in what's happening. Like some others here have mentioned: don't be too much of an annoyance, because they'll slow it down if you piss them off. It's not like you're holding many cards in this "deck" anyway.
EDIT: p.s. Just be glad you have another machine you can still use. <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
[ 01-18-2003: Message edited by: CosmoNut ]</p>
<strong>I agree that in this case patience is a virtue... and your ONLY course of action at this point. This sounds like it's a legal matter between Apple and AE now. You know how long legal matters can take.
In Apple's defense, some of the above comments are correct: They're not going to give you another machine until they're damn-well sure that the other one is gone, and they've secured reimbursement from AE.
Sounds like you are just going to have to sit on it, and be as gracious as possible in your regular phone calls and e-mails to request an update in what's happening. Like some others here have mentioned: don't be too much of an annoyance, because they'll slow it down if you piss them off. It's not like you're holding many cards in this "deck" anyway.
EDIT: p.s. Just be glad you have another machine you can still use. <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
[ 01-18-2003: Message edited by: CosmoNut ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
I agree with you. However, I just got a call from Airborne Friday afternoon from who I believe was a manager at the depot because the number was local (and I had no luck getting a local number before), where the supposed theft occured. His only question was if I had gotten the package yet! Two weeks after it arrived in HIS depot and he's asking me if I got it!? I was told by Airborne's public relations department last Tuesday (the 7th) that they officially declared it stolen and that the loss would be reported to Apple. At that point I expected a swift reprisal from Apple, but you know were we are with that...
Still pissed. Both at Airborne and Apple.
Still sucks that you're without a laptop though... I'd be pretty ticked off if that happened to me too.
Now, I would like to respond to several things said by Alcimedes.
First, I'd like to begin by saying that a warranty is a contract. It is a legally binding agreement between two parties. AppleCare (or even the factory warranty) is an agreement for service, and a garauntee against defect.
When Apple enters into that agreement, they assume all risk associated with upholding their end of the agreement. Legally, this includes the transport of the product to them for service.
Now, in your case, Apple's liability is increased as a result of failure to provide service according to their agreement the first time you sent it in. Had they done what they were supposed to the first time, you wouldn't have had to send it back the second time Since the theft/loss occured the second time, the theft was a direct result of their failure to provide service.
Airborne is responsible for the service they provide, however they are responsible to Apple, not to you. You have not entered into an agreement with Airborne, you've entered into an agreement with Apple. Apple has contraced Airborne to provide a service. Apple also contracts out many other aspects of their business. It's quite possible that the people who fixed your computer did not work for Apple, but for a company who is contracted by Apple.
However, you're agreement is with Apple, and anything that happens while they are performing services, Apple is responsible for the liability of it's contract providers.
This is a legal issue known as "contract service liability." It basically says that if a company enters into an agreement with A (you), and in order to complete that agreement, also enters into a contract with B (Airborne), and B defaults on it's part, the company is responsible.
Now, I wholly agree that it is realistic that Apple would at least wait to find out what the deal is before replacing the laptop, however it should be their top priority to find out. It's unacceptable for them to wait 9 days before "filling" anything with Airborne. Additionally, they should have offered to loan you equipment during your delay if it would be a while.
In the future, there are a couple things you should do. First, within 2 days of their being a delay with the shipment, file a police report for stolen merchandise. Airborne will be much more responsive when a detective calls to get information about a theft at their business.
Second, you can file a complaint with the Attorney General's office in your state, or in California (where Apple is). I happen to know AG Lockyer personally and his office is very prompt in responding to complaints. At the least, a call to Apple reagarding breach of contract will stir up a response.
It seems that your real complaint is that you have been mistreated. This is a valid complaint. I agree that the fault is with Airborne, but Airborne isn't responsible to you, they are responsible to Apple, who is responsible to you. Apple at least owes you an explaination and an update.
thanks for the filler on contract law, that was always a bit convoluted in my head. (one bus. law class won't go very far).
so i take that back, your problem is with Apple. sic 'em!
BTW, the phrase is "couldn't care less," meaning that they already are at the lowest point of caring, where no more degree of apathy would be possible.
[ 01-19-2003: Message edited by: bradbower ]</p>
As for Apple, over the last few years their support has gone straight to hell, and executive relations has become about as helpful as the people at the DMV.
In your position since you would appear to move alot of Apple merchandise you should get in touch with your account executive, while he won't be able to help you directly, he should be able to push some influence your way.
Steve Jobs doesn't get involved, anything sent to him just gets bounced back to executive relations.
As for the problem with the Ti Powerbooks that I call "Bomber Wing" you are fortunate that Apple was prepared to fix that, they usually refuse, although your fortune was squandered by Airborne.
Good Luck, but there is a pretty good chance you won't get shit out of Apple.
Anyway
MR FANTASTIC. If you don't get any help, please let me know. I'll throw some weight your way if I can. As I mentioned, I know personally Attorney General Lockyer of California, and would be happy to call him if it gets that far.