Apple sold 43% of all phones priced above $400 globally in Q2, earned majority of handset ...

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in AAPL Investors
Apple's iPhone earnings were over 3.6 times that of Samsung and over three times the profits of the top four brands in China, as the company sold 43 percent of all "premium" phones globally.

iPhone X
Apple's premium iPhone X helped it slurp up more profits than all the brands in China, and the rest of the world


According to a pair of new reports by Counterpoint Research, Apple's share of global handset profits remained distantly ahead of the combined earnings of all other phone makers worldwide.

Apple's 62 percent share of profits generated in Q2 was far ahead of Samsung's 17 percent, and was over three times the profit share of China's Huawei, OPPO, Vivo and Xiaomi put together. The remaining profits of more than 600 other handset brands amounted to less than 1 percent.


Source: Counterpoint Research Market Monitor Q2 2018


Counterpoint stated that "aggressive" efforts by Chinese brands to sell higher-end flagships resulted in their combined profits reaching $2 billion for the first time, suggesting that Apple's 62 percent share amounted to $6 billion. Apple reported iPhone revenues of about $30 billion in its fiscal quarter.

In the report, analyst Karn Chauhan wrote that Samsung's profits from smartphones "declined 21 percent annually due to weaker than expected sales of the Galaxy S9 series. The Galaxy S9 series shipments declined 24 percent in Q2 2018 as compared to Galaxy S8 series in Q2 2017."

Apple holds 88 percent of sales of +$800 smartphones

Profits in the industry were overwhelmingly generated by high-end premium models. And while overall demand for smartphones dropped by 1 percent in Q2, sales of premium smartphones (defined as being priced above $400, and accounting for about a fifth of all smartphone sales) actual grew by 7 percent globally.

Apple held 43 percent of all "premium sales," ahead of Samsung's 24 percent share, OPPO's 10 percent, Huawei's 9 percent, Xioami's 3 percent and 2 percent claimed by OnePlus.


Source: Counterpoint Research Market Monitor Q2 2018


Among phones priced between $400 and $600, Apple and OPPO were tied at 22 percent of sales, Samsung reached 16 percent, Huawei accounted for 14 percent, Xiaomi 6 percent and OnePlus 5 percent. Between $600 and $800, Apple accounted for 44 percent of all sales, followed by Samsung with 41 percent.

"Samsung's share in the $600-$800 segment declined due to fewer than expected sales of the Galaxy S9 series," noted Tarun Pathak. Above $800, Counterpoint stated that Apple dominated with 88 percent of all sales being iPhones.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 32
    nunzynunzy Posts: 662member
    That's one reason to love Apple. More of the money we pay goes to Wall Street than any other brand!

    Apple doesn't care about market share. Their strategy is to maximize dividends by having the highest profit margins. They could lower prices substantially, but why would they?

    I expect them to raise prices until it impacts their ability to increase profits, and then to level off.

    By then, all the best richest people will be buying nothing but Apple phones and watches and speakers and cars and jewelry and home automation.

    Apple is for people llike us! Watch out Tiffany. Ferrari too!
    edited September 19
  • Reply 2 of 32
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 6,447member
    So it looks like the smartphone market is still a long way from becoming commoditized. Speaking of commoditization, to this day there still is a premium toaster oven market out there. You can pay a couple of hundred dollars for one with all the bells and whistles or you can pay $20 for the Walmart version and replace it every couple of years. Nothing wrong with that.
    edited September 19 StrangeDayswatto_cobrajony0
  • Reply 3 of 32
    The more useful statistic would have been: what proportion of the sales of Apple (v. Android-makers such as Samsung) are above, say, an ASP of $700? A second useful statistic would have been what proportion of profits come from above-700 versus sub-700 phones? I am guessing there would be simply no comparison between Apple and the others.

    In fact, I am impressed that Apple has a 44% share in sub-600 phones.
    tmaywatto_cobra
  • Reply 4 of 32
    nunzy said:
    That's one reason to love Apple. More of the money we pay goes to Wall Street than any other brand!

    Apple doesn't care about market share. Their strategy is to maximize dividends by having the highest profit margins. They could lower prices substantially, but why would they?

    I expect them to raise prices until it impacts their ability to increase profits, and then to level off.

    By then, all the best richest people will be buying nothing but Apple phones and watches and speakers and cars and jewelry and home automation.

    Apple is for people llike us! Watch out Tiffany. Ferrari too!
    Stop acting like an idiot. You do realize Apple has $450 phones & $330 iPads, right?
    StrangeDaysRonnnieODeelronnunzyclaire1watto_cobra
  • Reply 5 of 32
    Apparently, that isn't enough for Apple as far as the critics and analysts are concerned. They still want Apple to sell a great number of flagship iPhones in all the BRIC nations. I really don't quite understand this because I don't think I ever see other companies with high-priced brands being expected to sell equal amounts of product with lower-priced brands. It's always being said how Apple is wrong not to go after higher global market share percentage. Apple seems to be doing well as it is but maybe I can't read the future as well as some of those financial experts. I always figure if Apple wanted to suddenly sell less expensive products, they easily could. However, I don't see the point of going after every price point in the market. That's just greed and it probably wouldn't do that much more for Apple's bottom line. If Apple is actually considered a premium (somewhat exclusive) brand, then what would be the point of allowing everyone to own an Apple product. That makes it a commodity product and that's not what Apple is aiming for. Why don't analysts understand such a simple fact? They can't be that stupid, can they?
  • Reply 6 of 32
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 6,447member
    nunzy said:
    That's one reason to love Apple. More of the money we pay goes to Wall Street than any other brand!

    Apple doesn't care about market share. Their strategy is to maximize dividends by having the highest profit margins. They could lower prices substantially, but why would they?

    I expect them to raise prices until it impacts their ability to increase profits, and then to level off.

    By then, all the best richest people will be buying nothing but Apple phones and watches and speakers and cars and jewelry and home automation.

    Apple is for people llike us! Watch out Tiffany. Ferrari too!
    Stop acting like an idiot. You do realize Apple has $450 phones & $330 iPads, right?
    If you haven’t figured it out yet, this @nunzy persona is actually a virile Apple hater pretending to be an insufferable fanboy. It plays the stereotypical fanboy role to the most irritable extreme. He’s actually mocking Apple users and the sooner you block this what-ever-it-is the better. 
    muthuk_vanalingamCarnageDeelronnunzysunwukongclaire1watto_cobrajony0
  • Reply 7 of 32
    lkrupp said:
    nunzy said:
    That's one reason to love Apple. More of the money we pay goes to Wall Street than any other brand!

    Apple doesn't care about market share. Their strategy is to maximize dividends by having the highest profit margins. They could lower prices substantially, but why would they?

    I expect them to raise prices until it impacts their ability to increase profits, and then to level off.

    By then, all the best richest people will be buying nothing but Apple phones and watches and speakers and cars and jewelry and home automation.

    Apple is for people llike us! Watch out Tiffany. Ferrari too!
    Stop acting like an idiot. You do realize Apple has $450 phones & $330 iPads, right?
    If you haven’t figured it out yet, this @nunzy persona is actually a virile Apple hater pretending to be an insufferable fanboy. It plays the stereotypical fanboy role to the most irritable extreme. He’s actually mocking Apple users and the sooner you block this what-ever-it-is the better. 

    TY. Blocked.
    nunzysunwukongwatto_cobrajony0
  • Reply 8 of 32
    lkrupp said:
    nunzy said:
    That's one reason to love Apple. More of the money we pay goes to Wall Street than any other brand!

    Apple doesn't care about market share. Their strategy is to maximize dividends by having the highest profit margins. They could lower prices substantially, but why would they?

    I expect them to raise prices until it impacts their ability to increase profits, and then to level off.

    By then, all the best richest people will be buying nothing but Apple phones and watches and speakers and cars and jewelry and home automation.

    Apple is for people llike us! Watch out Tiffany. Ferrari too!
    Stop acting like an idiot. You do realize Apple has $450 phones & $330 iPads, right?
    If you haven’t figured it out yet, this @nunzy persona is actually a virile Apple hater pretending to be an insufferable fanboy. It plays the stereotypical fanboy role to the most irritable extreme. He’s actually mocking Apple users and the sooner you block this what-ever-it-is the better. 
    Yeah I'm starting to wonder why AI hasn't given him a warning or something. The posts are usually completely over the top and child-like. Blocked long ago.
    Carnagenunzywatto_cobra
  • Reply 9 of 32
    Apple's pulling down the majority of the premium profits? Again?

    "Paging knockoff-defenders... Paging all knockoff-defenders...You are need in the forums."
    claire1watto_cobra
  • Reply 10 of 32
    Apple's pulling down the majority of the premium profits? Again?

    "Paging knockoff-defenders... Paging all knockoff-defenders...You are need in the forums."

    Let me take the bait, for a change. As per data from this article, the "Profit share percentage" for ALL Android OEMs put together in Q2 2018 is 38%. Apple has 62%. What was this number for Android OEMs in Q4 2016? 0%. Apple had 100%. Even ignoring that statistical anomaly due to Samsung Note 7 debacle, what was the "Profit share percentage" for Apple reported in other quarters of 2015 and 2016? It was around 85% to 90%.Has Apple's profits gone down in the last 2 years? No. They have increased it. What does that mean for Android OEMs? They (Samsung, Huawei, BBK and Xiaomi) have figured out how to make "profit" even in the crowded/matured smartphone market. And they WILL continue to be in business and continue to provide competition since they are making a "decent profit".

    And your point is????

    edited September 20 Carnage
  • Reply 11 of 32
    Looking at the numbers for Android OEMs in THIS article, it is very clear that Android OEMs are making profit by selling phones in the $400 to $600 price range. It may not be a Applesque profit segment, but it is a profitable one, nevertheless. Given this, Apple's decision to drop iPhone SE from the lineup without a replacement seems like an incorrect move, to me. Now, Apple is offering just 1 phone (iPhone 7) in this price segment, compared to last year (iPhone SE, iPhone 6, iPhone 6s). This will most likely have a negative impact (about 1%-2%) on unit sales in the holiday quarter. I do expect the revenue to go up by about 15% in holiday quarter compared to last year, purely due to ASP increase. But unit sale numbers will most likely become a talking point again early next year.
  • Reply 12 of 32
    chasmchasm Posts: 962member
    I've been waiting YEARS for the market to be broken out like this. Stop classing the free-with-your-cereal "Android" non-smartphones right alongside the iPhone X -- it makes zero sense! As this chart shows, not only is Apple dominant in the "serious actual smartphone, not a toy you make calls and catch viruses with" segment against all comers, it's also dominant or tied for dominance in every price level grouping. See also the similar success story that is the HomePod ... where it matters (i.e. the serious music listener willing to pay more than $200, and of course profitability).
    tmaywatto_cobra
  • Reply 13 of 32
    Looking at the numbers for Android OEMs in THIS article, it is very clear that Android OEMs are making profit by selling phones in the $400 to $600 price range. It may not be a Applesque profit segment, but it is a profitable one, nevertheless. Given this, Apple's decision to drop iPhone SE from the lineup without a replacement seems like an incorrect move, to me. Now, Apple is offering just 1 phone (iPhone 7) in this price segment, compared to last year (iPhone SE, iPhone 6, iPhone 6s). This will most likely have a negative impact (about 1%-2%) on unit sales in the holiday quarter. I do expect the revenue to go up by about 15% in holiday quarter compared to last year, purely due to ASP increase. But unit sale numbers will most likely become a talking point again early next year.
    You are comparing to sets of numbers generated using different methodologies. 

    BMO Capital Markets analyst Tim Long has estimated Apple's share of handset industry operating profits reaching "above 100 percent," achieved by taking losses out of the industry total. In other words, all the money lost by unprofitable vendors leaves Apple earning all it did plus not losing what others did. 

    Counterpoint (here) compares the profit share of firms that are generating a profit. And all of the major brands in China are collectively making an estimated profit of $2B in Q2. That's absolutely tons of phones across five major brands--each with its own corporate overhead and independent costs of development, production and sales)--resulting in 1/3 the profits (If you believe Apple only earned ~$6 Billion in iPhone sales in Q2 on sales of $30B of iPhones, which is hard to swallow) of Apple. 

    Also, there are two sets of numbers reported here: profit share across all handsets sold, and unit share among sales of various premium tiers. So when you point out that "Android OEMs are making profit by selling phones in the $400 to $600 price range," the reality is that yes, that's pretty much the only place they are earning any profits at all. And yet they have a tiny share of those low-tier "premium" models.

    Remember that we keep hearing about the huge volumes of Samsung, Huawei, and Xiaomi, but among this tier they only captured 16, 14 & 6 % of the 400-600 category. That's why they are barely making any money at all despite being next to Apple in the top 5 producers in China (and globally).

    And above 600, only Samsung has a significant share of premium phones, and its still far behind Apple overall, when you count anything above  $600 (where Samsung has plenty of options but very few actual sales.

    As for Apple dropping phones below the 7: keep in mind that it didn't officially carry many older phones in the US in previous years, but did sell those in other emerging markets. Apple's local manufacturing in India is focused on (IIRC) iPhone 6s. 

    Dropping the SE as a new model won't wipe away availability of SE refurbs, so your concerns about share of new sales doesn't take into account the installed base--which Apple cares about more than selling cheap phones to achieve "market share" of new units. That's why Apple is building phones that can last for +4 years rather than focusing on production of cheap Android-like products that might not last for 2 and can't be updated to the latest OS. 
     
    CarnagetmayDeelronwatto_cobra
  • Reply 14 of 32
    Looking at the numbers for Android OEMs in THIS article, it is very clear that Android OEMs are making profit by selling phones in the $400 to $600 price range. It may not be a Applesque profit segment, but it is a profitable one, nevertheless. Given this, Apple's decision to drop iPhone SE from the lineup without a replacement seems like an incorrect move, to me. Now, Apple is offering just 1 phone (iPhone 7) in this price segment, compared to last year (iPhone SE, iPhone 6, iPhone 6s). This will most likely have a negative impact (about 1%-2%) on unit sales in the holiday quarter. I do expect the revenue to go up by about 15% in holiday quarter compared to last year, purely due to ASP increase. But unit sale numbers will most likely become a talking point again early next year.
    You are comparing to sets of numbers generated using different methodologies. 

    BMO Capital Markets analyst Tim Long has estimated Apple's share of handset industry operating profits reaching "above 100 percent," achieved by taking losses out of the industry total. In other words, all the money lost by unprofitable vendors leaves Apple earning all it did plus not losing what others did. 

    Counterpoint (here) compares the profit share of firms that are generating a profit. And all of the major brands in China are collectively making an estimated profit of $2B in Q2. That's absolutely tons of phones across five major brands--each with its own corporate overhead and independent costs of development, production and sales)--resulting in 1/3 the profits (If you believe Apple only earned ~$6 Billion in iPhone sales in Q2 on sales of $30B of iPhones, which is hard to swallow) of Apple. 

    Also, there are two sets of numbers reported here: profit share across all handsets sold, and unit share among sales of various premium tiers. So when you point out that "Android OEMs are making profit by selling phones in the $400 to $600 price range," the reality is that yes, that's pretty much the only place they are earning any profits at all. And yet they have a tiny share of those low-tier "premium" models.

    Remember that we keep hearing about the huge volumes of Samsung, Huawei, and Xiaomi, but among this tier they only captured 16, 14 & 6 % of the 400-600 category. That's why they are barely making any money at all despite being next to Apple in the top 5 producers in China (and globally).

    And above 600, only Samsung has a significant share of premium phones, and its still far behind Apple overall, when you count anything above  $600 (where Samsung has plenty of options but very few actual sales.

    As for Apple dropping phones below the 7: keep in mind that it didn't officially carry many older phones in the US in previous years, but did sell those in other emerging markets. Apple's local manufacturing in India is focused on (IIRC) iPhone 6s. 

    Dropping the SE as a new model won't wipe away availability of SE refurbs, so your concerns about share of new sales doesn't take into account the installed base--which Apple cares about more than selling cheap phones to achieve "market share" of new units. That's why Apple is building phones that can last for +4 years rather than focusing on production of cheap Android-like products that might not last for 2 and can't be updated to the latest OS. 
     
    Not going to disagree with much of what you said, but one point - secondary market does NOT count to wall street. If the unit sale count reduces by 1% or 2% in this year holiday quarter compared to last year holiday quarter (which I do expect to happen), then that would be the key discussion point for wall street for the next year.
  • Reply 15 of 32
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 2,787member
    Apple's pulling down the majority of the premium profits? Again?

    "Paging knockoff-defenders... Paging all knockoff-defenders...You are need in the forums."
    Your shallow observation fails to highlight the real story.

    There are people here who insist that Apple sucks up ALL the profits of the handset market. If you point out they are wrong they challenge you to prove it. When you give them the links they simply vanish or change tack.

    Others claim that Android only caters to the low end market. Again this is wrong but these people insist.

    However, being factually wrong is only part of the problem.

    The real observation is that Android handsets are arguably giving MORE, through all price bands, for LESS. Often they give noticeably more than Apple handsets.

    In that context, why should anyone even care about how much of handset profits go here or there? Why should a consumer even consider things like ASP? 

    The most important thing is that the vendor can make enough of a profit to continue making better phones. 'How much' profit is irrevelant beyond statistical data.

    How much of Apple's profit has simply sat in an off shore haven for years without having any real bearing on its business? What percentage might that be? That's money users put there. That's not how I like to spend my money. You, specifically, claim that your iPhone X was well worth the price. That's your opinion but in the global handset market (given that iOS is a minority player and iPhone X is a fraction of that) your opinion is a minority opinion.

    Apple's unit sales have been basically flat for years now but it is fairly clear that the company is simply charging more. And some people simply accept it. 

    So what's the story in this case?

    1. This is the lowest Q2 profit share that Apple has had over the last three years. Way lower than some people here will even accept. Next week, this news will have been erased from their memories and they will insist again that Apple has all the profits. 

    2. The article points out that Samsung is down but skips the point that Apple is also down.

    3. Samsung may be down but the Chinese are up, basically across the board, and showing large gains. How much? Look at this:

    https://www.counterpointresearch.com/mobile-handset-profits-chinese-brands-reach-record-high-single-quarter/

    Yes, a record.

    But according to this piece, the Chinese just obliterated that record. And in a flat or slumping home market! What does that tell you? Obviously they are blazing a trail in other markets.

    But is all that revenue coming off your so called (and quite ridiculous) 'cheap knock-off' phones? Nope. This article puts that idea to bed.

    The Chinese are pumping out innovative, supreme build quality, profitable phones. Huawei alone shipped over 10,000,000 P20 Series premium phones in just a few months. The Mate 20 series will launch in less than three weeks.

    Apple literally hasn't really moved in handsets in three years. Shouldn't you be questioning if that profit is bearing the right kind of fruit? 

    Why is Apple playing catch-up in key handset areas?








    edited September 20 muthuk_vanalingamcropr
  • Reply 16 of 32
    avon b7 said:
    Apple's pulling down the majority of the premium profits? Again?

    "Paging knockoff-defenders... Paging all knockoff-defenders...You are need in the forums."
    1. This is the lowest Q2 profit share that Apple has had over the last three years. Way lower than some people here will even accept. Next week, this news will have been erased from their memories and they will insist again that Apple has all the profits. 

    2. The article points out that Samsung is down but skips the point that Apple is also down.

    Avon - One correction. The points 1 & 2 by you are misleading a bit. This is where the statement - "There are lies, damn lies and then statistics" comes into picture. Apple having JUST 62% of profit share compared to 90% 2 years ago DOES NOT reflect negatively on Apple. The right metric in this case is - what is the actual profit in $ and what is the trend? On both counts, Apple has done exceptionally well. This statistic "Profit share percentage" just shows the Android OEMs (particularly Chinese) in positive light, without degrading/demeaning the achievement of Apple.


    The key takeaways from the numbers in this article are

    i) Apple continues to do exceptionally well as they have always done

    ii) Top 4 Android OEMs have "learnt" to make a profit, making it a sustainable business for them.

    iii) Overall financial health of smartphone companies is going in a positive trend.

  • Reply 17 of 32
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,208member
    avon b7 said:
    Apple's pulling down the majority of the premium profits? Again?

    "Paging knockoff-defenders... Paging all knockoff-defenders...You are need in the forums."
    Your shallow observation fails to highlight the real story.

    There are people here who insist that Apple sucks up ALL the profits of the handset market. If you point out they are wrong they challenge you to prove it. When you give them the links they simply vanish or change tack.

    Others claim that Android only caters to the low end market. Again this is wrong but these people insist.

    However, being factually wrong is only part of the problem.

    The real observation is that Android handsets are arguably giving MORE, through all price bands, for LESS. Often they give noticeably more than Apple handsets.

    In that context, why should anyone even care about how much of handset profits go here or there? Why should a consumer even consider things like ASP? 

    The most important thing is that the vendor can make enough of a profit to continue making better phones. 'How much' profit is irrevelant beyond statistical data.

    How much of Apple's profit has simply sat in an off shore haven for years without having any real bearing on its business? What percentage might that be? That's money users put there. That's not how I like to spend my money. You, specifically, claim that your iPhone X was well worth the price. That's your opinion but in the global handset market (given that iOS is a minority player and iPhone X is a fraction of that) your opinion is a minority opinion.

    Apple's unit sales have been basically flat for years now but it is fairly clear that the company is simply charging more. And some people simply accept it. 

    So what's the story in this case?

    1. This is the lowest Q2 profit share that Apple has had over the last three years. Way lower than some people here will even accept. Next week, this news will have been erased from their memories and they will insist again that Apple has all the profits. 

    2. The article points out that Samsung is down but skips the point that Apple is also down.

    3. Samsung may be down but the Chinese are up, basically across the board, and showing large gains. How much? Look at this:

    https://www.counterpointresearch.com/mobile-handset-profits-chinese-brands-reach-record-high-single-quarter/

    Yes, a record.

    But according to this piece, the Chinese just obliterated that record. And in a flat or slumping home market! What does that tell you? Obviously they are blazing a trail in other markets.

    But is all that revenue coming off your so called (and quite ridiculous) 'cheap knock-off' phones? Nope. This article puts that idea to bed.

    The Chinese are pumping out innovative, supreme build quality, profitable phones. Huawei alone shipped over 10,000,000 P20 Series premium phones in just a few months. The Mate 20 series will launch in less than three weeks.

    Apple literally hasn't really moved in handsets in three years. Shouldn't you be questioning if that profit is bearing the right kind of fruit? 

    Why is Apple playing catch-up in key handset areas?








    "Why is Apple playing catchup in key handset areas?"

    You see Apple as having to play "catchup" with key features, but the reality is that Apple doesn't have to spend it's time competing in the Android OS market, where features, and price, are the primary differentiator of essentially commodity products. Apple doesn't have to compete in 5G today, one of your keystone arguments, simply because most of its customers don't have access to 5G infrastructure, and its recent LTE upgrades are "good enough". Apple doesn't have to compete with three camera phones simply because the current two lens system is "good enough", today, while arguably, the leader in mobile video, as well as AR.

    Being best with a couple of key features while being constrained by the Android OS ecosystem is why Apple has the luxury of designing products for long life cycles; Apple has its own OS and a roadmap for hardware and software that Android OS device makers could only dream about. Apple doesn't have to "throw shit at the wall" like "GT Turbo", for marketing PR.

    I would note that the world's smartphone market, overall, is flat. Huawei may be growing, but they are doing so in a zero sum environment, and it looks like based on the charts above, that they are taking share from Samsung, none from Apple, which you acknowledge as well is a "flat market". Samsung will compete to regain that share.

    Apple acknowledged, and embraced, the "flat market" by providing the longest life cycle with software support, of any smartphone, bringing increased value to secondary and refurbished sales, and facilitating customers buying new iPhones to gain the best possible value from their current iPhones in trade, or sale into the used market. That's exactly why Apple will ship 150 million of the XR, XS, and XS Max this year; value to the customer.

    Did I mention that the lowest cost iPhone XR has an ASP of $749?

    I would think that Android OS device prices might be higher based on capability and features alone, and if not for competing in the Android OS market, but, the reality is they do have to compete in that market, and they don't have Apple extensive retail, service and ecosystem which customers love.

    The 2nd calendar quarter is typically Apple's worst showing for unit and profit share, so I'm thinking the yearly average for profits is somewhere in the neighborhood of 80%.
    edited September 20 watto_cobra
  • Reply 18 of 32
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 2,787member
    avon b7 said:
    Apple's pulling down the majority of the premium profits? Again?

    "Paging knockoff-defenders... Paging all knockoff-defenders...You are need in the forums."
    1. This is the lowest Q2 profit share that Apple has had over the last three years. Way lower than some people here will even accept. Next week, this news will have been erased from their memories and they will insist again that Apple has all the profits. 

    2. The article points out that Samsung is down but skips the point that Apple is also down.

    Avon - One correction. The points 1 & 2 by you are misleading a bit. This is where the statement - "There are lies, damn lies and then statistics" comes into picture. Apple having JUST 62% of profit share compared to 90% 2 years ago DOES NOT reflect negatively on Apple. The right metric in this case is - what is the actual profit in $ and what is the trend? On both counts, Apple has done exceptionally well. This statistic "Profit share percentage" just shows the Android OEMs (particularly Chinese) in positive light, without degrading/demeaning the achievement of Apple.


    The key takeaways from the numbers in this article are

    i) Apple continues to do exceptionally well as they have always done

    ii) Top 4 Android OEMs have "learnt" to make a profit, making it a sustainable business for them.

    iii) Overall financial health of smartphone companies is going in a positive trend.

    The point isn't to reflect negatively on Apple but to highlight the reality. To show another perspective. Yes, figures can be misleading. That is why I shone some light on the original presentation of this news.

    We now have over three years without any real change in this area. In fact these figures are the lowest of the last three years and if Samsung has dropped, and that is pointed out, then Apple dropping is also noteworthy IMO. If there is a Q2 trend to point out more than any other it is precisely that Apple is, at best, simply not where some people here persistently claim they always are. The details are lost on those people. Just like they are when Apple's Q1 numbers come in and people forget they represent a peak during Apple's annual cycle and that competitors don't operate in the same way.

    In fact, flat growth and lowest Q2 profit percentage in three years, even with the iPhone X in the numbers, shows that competitors have clawed back huge chunks of the profit pie - even with Apple's 'most popular phone' being its most expensive. If Samsung is down, it doesn't automatically swing numbers in Apple's favour because we now have the Chinese block to consider and they are a wedge that squeezes both Samsung and Apple.

    However, while all of this is happening, my bigger beef was with the 'profit share is news' premise itself. Who had the largest share in profits is irrelevant. As long as profits are made and products can be developed successfully, who has the largest share is virtually anecdotal.

    No truer than today where Apple is lacking in key handset areas and this aspect isn't news anymore. 

    The P20 Pro stole the show this year. Few people can dispute this.

    The Mate 10  for example can reverse charge devices. With more and more battery charged accessories it's a cool feature to have. That product is a year old now.

    Apple was late to wireless charging and it was extra slow when it finally arrived. The Air Power solution has hit obstacles but now we have Huawei rumours pointing to the Mate 20 wirelessly reverse charging accessories (wireless ear buds in this case). If true, that's a cool option to have. The wired charging will reportedly see an 80% increase in its power rating too. We already know what Apple will have right through to September 2019 and in technology terms it will likely struggle again this year too.
  • Reply 19 of 32
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,208member
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    Apple's pulling down the majority of the premium profits? Again?

    "Paging knockoff-defenders... Paging all knockoff-defenders...You are need in the forums."
    1. This is the lowest Q2 profit share that Apple has had over the last three years. Way lower than some people here will even accept. Next week, this news will have been erased from their memories and they will insist again that Apple has all the profits. 

    2. The article points out that Samsung is down but skips the point that Apple is also down.

    Avon - One correction. The points 1 & 2 by you are misleading a bit. This is where the statement - "There are lies, damn lies and then statistics" comes into picture. Apple having JUST 62% of profit share compared to 90% 2 years ago DOES NOT reflect negatively on Apple. The right metric in this case is - what is the actual profit in $ and what is the trend? On both counts, Apple has done exceptionally well. This statistic "Profit share percentage" just shows the Android OEMs (particularly Chinese) in positive light, without degrading/demeaning the achievement of Apple.


    The key takeaways from the numbers in this article are

    i) Apple continues to do exceptionally well as they have always done

    ii) Top 4 Android OEMs have "learnt" to make a profit, making it a sustainable business for them.

    iii) Overall financial health of smartphone companies is going in a positive trend.

    The point isn't to reflect negatively on Apple but to highlight the reality. To show another perspective. Yes, figures can be misleading. That is why I shone some light on the original presentation of this news.

    We now have over three years without any real change in this area. In fact these figures are the lowest of the last three years and if Samsung has dropped, and that is pointed out, then Apple dropping is also noteworthy IMO. If there is a Q2 trend to point out more than any other it is precisely that Apple is, at best, simply not where some people here persistently claim they always are. The details are lost on those people. Just like they are when Apple's Q1 numbers come in and people forget they represent a peak during Apple's annual cycle and that competitors don't operate in the same way.

    In fact, flat growth and lowest Q2 profit percentage in three years, even with the iPhone X in the numbers, shows that competitors have clawed back huge chunks of the profit pie - even with Apple's 'most popular phone' being its most expensive. If Samsung is down, it doesn't automatically swing numbers in Apple's favour because we now have the Chinese block to consider and they are a wedge that squeezes both Samsung and Apple.

    However, while all of this is happening, my bigger beef was with the 'profit share is news' premise itself. Who had the largest share in profits is irrelevant. As long as profits are made and products can be developed successfully, who has the largest share is virtually anecdotal.

    No truer than today where Apple is lacking in key handset areas and this aspect isn't news anymore. 

    The P20 Pro stole the show this year. Few people can dispute this.

    The Mate 10  for example can reverse charge devices. With more and more battery charged accessories it's a cool feature to have. That product is a year old now.

    Apple was late to wireless charging and it was extra slow when it finally arrived. The Air Power solution has hit obstacles but now we have Huawei rumours pointing to the Mate 20 wirelessly reverse charging accessories (wireless ear buds in this case). If true, that's a cool option to have. The wired charging will reportedly see an 80% increase in its power rating too. We already know what Apple will have right through to September 2019 and in technology terms it will likely struggle again this year too.
    You have pigeonholed Apple into being a smartphone maker; they are more than that.

    The article below is an excellent illumination of what Apple is, hence why I'm convinced that the Android OS marketplace is both zero sum, and non growth, just as you are sure that Apple is long term going to suffer "flat" unit sales.

    https://www.aboveavalon.com/notes/2018/9/19/connecting-the-apple-dots

    While the Chinese Android OS device makers are cutting out all stops to growth in higher ASP smartphones, Apple has already laid the groundwork for what follows, and they have the software, hardware, technology, and resources, not to mention funding, to go to the next big thing.


    muthuk_vanalingamStrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 20 of 32
    nhtnht Posts: 4,303member
    avon b7 said:
    Apple's pulling down the majority of the premium profits? Again?

    "Paging knockoff-defenders... Paging all knockoff-defenders...You are need in the forums."
    1. This is the lowest Q2 profit share that Apple has had over the last three years. Way lower than some people here will even accept. Next week, this news will have been erased from their memories and they will insist again that Apple has all the profits. 

    2. The article points out that Samsung is down but skips the point that Apple is also down.

    Avon - One correction. The points 1 & 2 by you are misleading a bit. This is where the statement - "There are lies, damn lies and then statistics" comes into picture. Apple having JUST 62% of profit share compared to 90% 2 years ago DOES NOT reflect negatively on Apple. The right metric in this case is - what is the actual profit in $ and what is the trend? On both counts, Apple has done exceptionally well. This statistic "Profit share percentage" just shows the Android OEMs (particularly Chinese) in positive light, without degrading/demeaning the achievement of Apple.


    The key takeaways from the numbers in this article are

    i) Apple continues to do exceptionally well as they have always done

    ii) Top 4 Android OEMs have "learnt" to make a profit, making it a sustainable business for them.

    iii) Overall financial health of smartphone companies is going in a positive trend.

    Avon loves to cherry pick quarters and then calls foul when Q4 rolls around.  The truth of the matter is that folks say Apple has all the profit share because over the entire year Apple had 62% in 2013, 77% in 2014, 90% in 2015, 83% in 2016 and 79% in 2017.  So anywhere in that 75%-85% range is about par based on the last 5 years.

    "Samsung has consistently held the number two profit position. Its share peaked at 43% in 2013 and ranged between 16% and 18% during 2015 to 2017. Huawei’s profit share has only increased to a high of 6% in 2017 after running breakeven during 2013 to 2015. Every other smartphone company has been losing money to operating at a breakeven level."

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjones/2018/03/02/apple-continues-to-dominate-the-smartphone-profit-pool/#4e03628161bb

    Will Apple profit margins drop someday?  Sure, nothing lasts forever.  2018 isn't likely to be they year it craters as Avon hopes and Huawei suddenly jumps to 20%+.

    Avon also loves to ignore that flat is good when you average 77% of the profit share in a market...and that his predictions that the iPhone X wouldn't sell was totally wrong.

    He'll then caterwaul about how profit share doesn't help consumers...ignoring that consumers disagree by buying iPhones.

    But the most funny thing when he prattles on about the superiority of Android phones from China is the fact that Apple captured 22% of the $400-$600 market with 2 year old phone (iPhone SE and 6s sporting the A9 processor) and 1 year old phone (iPhone 7, A10) tech vs the latest Android tech (Snapdragon 845s in the OnePlus 6)...

    Apple doesn't need new phones to compete in the $400-$600 market.  The iPhone 7 now occupies the $450 segment and the iPhone 8 the $600 segment.  I'd rather get the iPhone than the Moto Z3 Play in the same price segment.
    tmayStrangeDaysclaire1watto_cobra
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