MacBook keyboard failures could end with introduction of glass panel keyboards

124»

Comments

  • Reply 61 of 68
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,876member
    melgross said:
    melgross said:
    This would have to be pretty thin, bendable glass. Even though such a material exists, it’s got to be somewhat fragile.

    Not really. The thinner glass gets, the more flexible it becomes. Get a tempered glass screen protector for an iPhone and you'll find that you need to almost fold the paper-thin glass before it will break.
    Tempered glass screens often break more easily than the phone screen does. I get the theory. Unfortunately, there’s a saying; Theory and practice don’t always match. If you have this, and you close the notebook with something on the keys without noticing it, I can pretty much guarantee those keys will break.
    Does this happen to your screen often?
    I dont use those tempered glass useless protectors. I’ve seen too many of them break for others. Never had my screens scratch. And when you use them, you lose the anti reflection coating, as it doesnt work under the glass protector.

    I did have one 9.7” iPad screen break when it slipped off my desk, flipped over and hit the edge of my rubber coated barbell I keep by my desk to use when I’m waiting for something to finish. It got one crack across the screen, but worked fine. I took it to Apple and fully explained what happened. He looked at it and said he couldn’t find where it hit, so they assumed it was a defect, and gave me a new one. A tempered screen would have shattered into little pieces, which is what tempered glass does. No guarantee that wouldn’t scratch the screen below, or prevent a break.

    when we had plastic screens, protectors were required. Not now.

    what I meant by the keys breaking is that, if you read the description in the article, you would see that they would be very thin, and formed into raised key shapes. Those would be unsupported underneath. If you have a pen, or something similar on it, and close the computer, the pressure could break those thin glass keys, bendable or not.
    edited February 5
  • Reply 62 of 68
    DuhSesame said:
    Yup.  I posted a bunch of other patents from 2011 or so on the previous page, they all definitely spell out where they’ve been going for quite some time with all this. 
    Isn’t it fun to see people complaining without any experiences?  Butterfly keys aren’t perfect by any means, but most complaints has nothing on point.
  • Reply 63 of 68
    melgross said:
    melgross said:
    melgross said:
    This would have to be pretty thin, bendable glass. Even though such a material exists, it’s got to be somewhat fragile.

    Not really. The thinner glass gets, the more flexible it becomes. Get a tempered glass screen protector for an iPhone and you'll find that you need to almost fold the paper-thin glass before it will break.
    Tempered glass screens often break more easily than the phone screen does. I get the theory. Unfortunately, there’s a saying; Theory and practice don’t always match. If you have this, and you close the notebook with something on the keys without noticing it, I can pretty much guarantee those keys will break.
    Does this happen to your screen often?
    I dont use those tempered glass useless protectors. I’ve seen too many of them break for others. Never had my screens scratch. And when you use them, you lose the anti reflection coating, as it doesnt work under the glass protector.

    I did have one 9.7” iPad screen break when it slipped off my desk, flipped over and hit the edge of my rubber coated barbell I keep by my desk to use when I’m waiting for something to finish. It got one crack across the screen, but worked fine. I took it to Apple and fully explained what happened. He looked at it and said he couldn’t find where it hit, so they assumed it was a defect, and gave me a new one. A tempered screen would have shattered into little pieces, which is what tempered glass does. No guarantee that wouldn’t scratch the screen below, or prevent a break.

    when we had plastic screens, protectors were required. Not now.

    what I meant by the keys breaking is that, if you read the description in the article, you would see that they would be very thin, and formed into raised key shapes. Those would be unsupported underneath. If you have a pen, or something similar on it, and close the computer, the pressure could break those thin glass keys, bendable or not.
    Which is why it’s just a prototype yet.  If that’s going to be the thing, it certainly won’t be as thin as 40 microns, or isn’t something we used to think (keycap replacement).
  • Reply 64 of 68
    melgross said:
    melgross said:
    melgross said:
    This would have to be pretty thin, bendable glass. Even though such a material exists, it’s got to be somewhat fragile.

    Not really. The thinner glass gets, the more flexible it becomes. Get a tempered glass screen protector for an iPhone and you'll find that you need to almost fold the paper-thin glass before it will break.
    Tempered glass screens often break more easily than the phone screen does. I get the theory. Unfortunately, there’s a saying; Theory and practice don’t always match. If you have this, and you close the notebook with something on the keys without noticing it, I can pretty much guarantee those keys will break.
    Does this happen to your screen often?
    I dont use those tempered glass useless protectors. I’ve seen too many of them break for others. Never had my screens scratch. And when you use them, you lose the anti reflection coating, as it doesnt work under the glass protector.

    I did have one 9.7” iPad screen break when it slipped off my desk, flipped over and hit the edge of my rubber coated barbell I keep by my desk to use when I’m waiting for something to finish. It got one crack across the screen, but worked fine. I took it to Apple and fully explained what happened. He looked at it and said he couldn’t find where it hit, so they assumed it was a defect, and gave me a new one. A tempered screen would have shattered into little pieces, which is what tempered glass does. No guarantee that wouldn’t scratch the screen below, or prevent a break.

    when we had plastic screens, protectors were required. Not now.

    what I meant by the keys breaking is that, if you read the description in the article, you would see that they would be very thin, and formed into raised key shapes. Those would be unsupported underneath. If you have a pen, or something similar on it, and close the computer, the pressure could break those thin glass keys, bendable or not.
    Yeah, what I meant was whether you're constantly closing your laptop with objects in there and breaking your screen. The fact you don't makes me wonder why you're already FUDding over breaking keys that don't exist, which are theoretically so thin that closing a lid on a pen would shatter them. It's kind of speculative, dontcha think?
  • Reply 65 of 68
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,876member
    melgross said:
    melgross said:
    melgross said:
    This would have to be pretty thin, bendable glass. Even though such a material exists, it’s got to be somewhat fragile.

    Not really. The thinner glass gets, the more flexible it becomes. Get a tempered glass screen protector for an iPhone and you'll find that you need to almost fold the paper-thin glass before it will break.
    Tempered glass screens often break more easily than the phone screen does. I get the theory. Unfortunately, there’s a saying; Theory and practice don’t always match. If you have this, and you close the notebook with something on the keys without noticing it, I can pretty much guarantee those keys will break.
    Does this happen to your screen often?
    I dont use those tempered glass useless protectors. I’ve seen too many of them break for others. Never had my screens scratch. And when you use them, you lose the anti reflection coating, as it doesnt work under the glass protector.

    I did have one 9.7” iPad screen break when it slipped off my desk, flipped over and hit the edge of my rubber coated barbell I keep by my desk to use when I’m waiting for something to finish. It got one crack across the screen, but worked fine. I took it to Apple and fully explained what happened. He looked at it and said he couldn’t find where it hit, so they assumed it was a defect, and gave me a new one. A tempered screen would have shattered into little pieces, which is what tempered glass does. No guarantee that wouldn’t scratch the screen below, or prevent a break.

    when we had plastic screens, protectors were required. Not now.

    what I meant by the keys breaking is that, if you read the description in the article, you would see that they would be very thin, and formed into raised key shapes. Those would be unsupported underneath. If you have a pen, or something similar on it, and close the computer, the pressure could break those thin glass keys, bendable or not.
    Yeah, what I meant was whether you're constantly closing your laptop with objects in there and breaking your screen. The fact you don't makes me wonder why you're already FUDding over breaking keys that don't exist, which are theoretically so thin that closing a lid on a pen would shatter them. It's kind of speculative, dontcha think?
    A lot of people do just that though. Usually, the screen cracks from the pressure. That should tell you something about what this idea may result in.actually, we don’t know what Apple is planning, just that someone came up with an idea, and created an invention from it which was then patented. Apple may never go this route.
  • Reply 66 of 68
    shaminoshamino Posts: 412member

    Not sure why you'd think Apple doesn't eat its own dogfood, it's pretty clear they do. You see Schiller and Federighi walking around with Lenovos, do ya?
    Walking around in public, they're going to use what they want the public to see them using.

    When in their offices, I doubt they're using their laptops' built-in keyboards.  They're almost certainly attached to a dock of some kind.  Or they have desktop systems there (iMacs, minis, Pros) where they get to use large monitors and external keyboards and pointing devices.  Assuming they only use Apple parts (which may be likely), they're going to be Bluetooth Magic keyboards and mice/trackpads.

    Even more for the developers and writers who spend nearly all their time every day typing.

    It's also worth noting that Apple has not (yet?) introduced these no-travel keyswitches to their external keyboard products.

    I'd love to know how many of them actually use laptops at their desks and how many of those actually use the built-in keyboards at their desks.
  • Reply 67 of 68
    thttht Posts: 3,249member
    shamino said:

    Not sure why you'd think Apple doesn't eat its own dogfood, it's pretty clear they do. You see Schiller and Federighi walking around with Lenovos, do ya?
    Walking around in public, they're going to use what they want the public to see them using.

    When in their offices, I doubt they're using their laptops' built-in keyboards.  They're almost certainly attached to a dock of some kind.  Or they have desktop systems there (iMacs, minis, Pros) where they get to use large monitors and external keyboards and pointing devices.  Assuming they only use Apple parts (which may be likely), they're going to be Bluetooth Magic keyboards and mice/trackpads.

    Even more for the developers and writers who spend nearly all their time every day typing.

    It's also worth noting that Apple has not (yet?) introduced these no-travel keyswitches to their external keyboard products.

    I'd love to know how many of them actually use laptops at their desks and how many of those actually use the built-in keyboards at their desks.

    You are assuming that Apple (managers, engineers, etc) won’t like the butterfly keyboards if they use them. It’s pretty clear that they use them, that they love it, use it all the time, and butterfly switches may well be on the next version of 1st party external keyboards. Then, a core group of Apple employees likely use laptop keyboards more than anyone else in the world as they have international travel schedules, including high level, mid level and low level managers and engineers.

    They’ve had 4 years to change the key design, but all they’ve done is refine the butterfly switch design since their introduction in the MB12 and expanded it to all laptop models. They love this design and think they got it right. The reliability is obviously worse than they want, but they’ve been slowly chipping away at that.

    Maybe the next major revisions of the laptops won’t have the butterfly mechanism, but I would bet a lot that they will be using the same domes that provide the clickiness, like in the Smart Keyboards. Don’t think that will be going to more key travel anytime soon.
    fastasleep
  • Reply 68 of 68
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 3,161member
    shamino said:
    It's also worth noting that Apple has not (yet?) introduced these no-travel keyswitches to their external keyboard products.
    They don't need to, space isn't at a premium as it is in the notebooks.
Sign In or Register to comment.