Editorial: CBC again attacks Apple's repair policies, but still lacks knowledge of how it ...

Posted:
in General Discussion edited April 7
Six months after the last attack on Apple's repair policies and practices, CBC has produced another report objecting to Apple's reluctance to dealing with water-damaged iPhones, with it again lacking an understanding of how and why Apple's repair department works the way it does.




Following on from 2018's criticism of Apple, the latest video report by CBC's The National starts by introducing viewers to the Billards, a Newfoundland couple who failed to make adequate backups of photographs that were stored on an iPhone. A boating accident put the iPhone at the bottom of a lake, damaging the device.

The incident prompted a call to Apple asking how to recover the thousands of images stored on the iPhone, but the request was fruitless. Apple had "virtually no interest" in helping, the couple asserts, with the company apparently more in favor of selling a replacement device than in recovering the data.

After querying third-party repair outfits nearby, the Billards were referred to a company near Rochester, New York called iPadRehab. The firm, operated by Jessa Jones who formed the company following a similar water-based mishap of her own and taught herself how to repair iPhones, was able to get the iPhone up and running enough to recover the data for the couple.





The report then moves towards how Apple's advice the pictures were unrecoverable is a common statement from the company. Jones claims "The most common answer - and I hear this from customers all the time - is 'there is no way to get your pictures from your iPhone if it won't turn on.' It's heartbreaking, because it's absolutely not true."

Jones goes on to suggest most devices with water damage similar to being dropped in a toilet are recoverable, proposing that the proportion is likely to be in the region of 95 percent. She is certain of her company's abilities to resurrect iPhones that she charges $300, only if the data can be restored.

While her company is doing well from Apple's unwillingness to service water-damaged iPhones, the report highlights issues Jones has when posting to the Apple Support Communities, a section of Apple's website where users can offer advice to others for issues with problematic devices. When Jones writes posts to the forum advising that water-damaged devices could undergo a repair via non-Apple authorized means, her posts are removed as being "inappropriate," and eventually the account itself is banned.

"They don't want people to try to fix their phone, to recover the data, they don't care. They blame you, it's your fault," Jones believes.

The report posted its own query to the support forum about a water-damaged iPhone, but was informed by one user that there was nothing to be done, and that the data wouldn't be accessible unless it was backed up. A follow-up asking about data recovery services like the one operated by Jones brought the response "Not unless you have money to burn. They can't recover your photos. No-one can. The data is gone."

Asking Apple's official support got a similar response, with no way to recover the data. When asked directly by the report about why it provided "false information," Apple declined to respond.

It is unclear if the report is declaring both the comments made by another forum user and from Apple's support as "false information" or just Apple's official response. It is plausible that someone watching the report could think the answer provided on the support forum constituted an official Apple response, when it is more a forum user's comment following generally assumed guidelines based on similar previous queries.

Jessa Jones of iPadRehab (via CBC)
Jessa Jones of iPadRehab (via CBC)


Jones hopes for a change in corporate culture to help the users, likening them to bossy, controlling "hover mothers" dictating terms on its users. "I would like for somebody to just smack them, and say 'you're not the boss of me," Jones concludes.

Even after contacting AppleInsider, the CBC lacks context

Shortly after the last CBC piece about Apple service, they reached out to AppleInsider to discuss the matter. We did talk about it with them, and we know that they read our previous editorial on the matter.

Despite the conversation, it appears that in the interim, they didn't really bother to learn anything about how Apple service works, why it works the way it does, why it has to work the way it does. They also didn't seem to bother figuring out what sets apart Jones and long-time repair advocate Louis Rossmann from Genius Bar staff, so all of this bears repeating again.

In the last five complete fiscal years, Apple has sold approximately 1.36 billion devices. It's hard to get solid data out of Apple regarding total failures, but the general consensus is that 4 percent of all installed devices on any platform, world-wide fail per year from forces outside of user abuse. This number does not include retirement or disposal, and can be as high as 10 times greater if you include user damage, or damage from disasters.

So, for the sake of this calculation in regards to conservatively estimating on the low-end how many devices need to be serviced per year per repair shop, if you assume that one in a hundred of all Apple devices fail from reasons other than user-induced damage like a broken screen per annum, that leaves 13.6 million failures per year.

If you assume that there are 5000 authorized repair centers -- about 10 times the amount of Apple Stores at present -- that leaves a very conservatively low estimate of 27,000 devices per year per location that need to be serviced beyond a software reinstall, not including smashed screens, replacement batteries, water damage, or any other hardware crisis. According to data collected by AppleInsider, liquid damage alone is fairly consistently about 75 percent above and beyond hardware failures from no known cause, regardless of the volume of the repair shop.




Like it or not, Apple is now a consumer electronics business, and isn't a boutique computer manufacturer. Board-level repairs at retail locations are far, far quicker for the company, require less-skilled workers at retail which can be paid less than a Rossmann- or Jones-level technician, and all of this combined can get a functional Mac or iPhone back to a consumer faster.

We proposed earlier, as an exercise for the reader, to hang out at an Apple store on any given Saturday near the Genius Bar evaluation table, and see how many customers demand instant repair or head-of-the-queue privileges because they have a deadline, Billy's birthday was Saturday and his pictures are in the machine, or data is stuck in the broken machine and it must come out for work. CBC seems incapable or unwilling to do this, and also seems to lack any consideration of the reality of the scale of Apple's repair effort, but in their defense, Apple didn't comment on the matter, nor offer to amplify the report at all.

Apple support forums & Support technicians

The CBC put a lot of weight on the Apple support forums as a venue for data. However, Apple in no way participates in the forums, nor issues any form of formal statement regarding data recovery there.

A typical 'water damage' response from Apple's forums
A typical 'water damage' response from Apple's forums


The user cited by the CBC report is an Apple user, not an Apple employee, or service tech. The support forums that Apple hosts is no more an official voice of Apple than the AppleInsider forums, and in may cases, the noise to signal ratio there is tipped in the favor of useless information far, far more than our own.

Additionally, without identifying as AppleInsider writers in any way, multiple staffers supporting family, friends, acquaintances, or in a professional capacity have been told by Geniuses at retail and online that there are data recovery options, that aren't sanctioned by Apple. They have always stopped short of a recommendation, for what are likely accountability and legal reasons.

It isn't clear how many support staffers the CBC spoke to beyond the one shown in the video. Messages delivered by official support staff can, and do, vary.

Accountability is (still) everything

We don't doubt that the CBC was told by Apple that the data wasn't recoverable. Like before, Apple's representative did the job in accordance with training, followed the procedure the way they were supposed to, and performed at the level of experience they were expected to have.

If every Apple store had Rossmann, Jones or somebody with similar skill and experience, do all of the device examinations then that data recovery would be possible in-store. But, there's still larger issues of time, and those 75,000 devices per year on the average that come in to each shop plus the ones that are rendered inoperable by a water immersion like the case presented by the CBC or similar failure, locking the data inside.

Detailed examinations take a lot of time. Speaking with multiple circuit-level repair people since the last report, a good rule of thumb unless there is an obvious point of damage, is to assume at least two hours for a firm diagnosis on what specifically has been damaged, and at least a few days to get a component in. Which is better for the average consumer, one hour in and out of the store like can happen now, or a lengthy diagnosis, and repair?

A common starting point for solving Apple issues for customers
A common starting point for solving Apple issues for customers


Apple's repair rules at retail, established by Apple corporate for uniformity, are there for a reason -- including denials, the lack of responsibility for customer data on a failed piece of gear, and mandating board-level repairs rather than circuit-level ones. Related to all this, regarding that lost data that the video is railing about, we have yet to find a shop that absolutely guarantees the safety of your data, for even the simplest of repairs. They may exist, but they are in a precarious legal position if they do so.

Non-Apple Retail repair shops serve an important purpose

Like we said before, there are good, bad, Apple-authorized, and independent repair shops, and all the permutations of those four you can dream up. And, any given Genius Bar is subject to the same range of skills. The key for the user is finding a shop that gives the user the best balance between affordability, repair turn-around, and quality.

The quality independent shops, like Rossmann's and Jones' will take jobs that Apple doesn't want to do, or won't do affordably. And, sometimes, they can even do data recovery like practically demonstrated in the latest CBC video.

Customers need Apple Stores to have Genius Bars. They also need venues like Rossmann's and Jones', and outfits like DriveSavers where cost is no object if the data absolutely must be recovered. The two broad categories are not mutually incompatible, and do not focus on the same avenues for repair -- nor should they.

And, it's probably an important point to remember that Apple's design and service choices make the devices fail less often, and the repair experience smoother for those that have dead iPhones or Macs, if perhaps more expensive. And, as a general rule, those customers don't have the same level of technical acumen that AppleInsider readers have, aren't looking to do the repairs themselves, and are fine with a device replacement.

Back to where we were, six months ago

There's already a lot of heat getting doled out on the Internet this morning about the video, and not all of it at Apple. Jones, Rossmann and similar are doing absolutely nothing wrong. They are very good at what they do, that level of skill is a rarity, and they should be commended for doing what they do, day in and day out. Why the CBC doesn't see this as exceptional, and not possible for Apple to hire tens of thousands of technicians with similar skill is unclear to us.

The sensitive internals of an iPhone.
The sensitive internals of an iPhone.


Where Apple has failed here, is in explicit customer education -- and this is a common refrain. While the responsibility for your data is spelled out in the terms of service, this entire saga would have been avoided had the customers been more aggressively told that if you only have one copy of your data, you're making a grave mistake. Accidents happen, and they are always terrible for the user. But, failing to have a backup of critical data, is absolutely the user's fault and will always be so.

Another failure of Apple's is banning Jones from the support forums. While Jones said that she read the terms of service and says that she did nothing wrong -- a point that we believe -- we feel that they made a bad call in that regard, as it pertains to customer education. It is Apple's house to manage, though, so we don't have much of a leg to stand on here.

Where the CBC failed, again, even after talking to us, and presumably other venues as well, is actually having any real concept of how service works on an immense scale, and not bothering to talk about it to their audience, or even seemingly consider the ramifications of supplying literally millions of repair parts per year. This number may only increase if the rumored supply of service parts to repair shops ever takes place.

Any after-casualty report always has lessons learned. The three lessons learned in this particular case are always back up your data and don't rely on anybody else to save it for you, have a repair shop you trust and it doesn't matter if it's Apple or a talented third-party, and the CBC apparently can't be relied upon for complete reporting involving Apple service matters.

Update: Louis Rossmann, mentioned in this piece, has issued a rebuttal to AppleInsider's stance on this matter. He then published another video, where he has discovered, as we have been saying, that there is no policy to tell users that data is lost forever, and Apple support staff do, in fact refer customers to data retrieval specialists.

We have reached out to Rossmann, to attempt to continue this conversation.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 91
    rcomeaurcomeau Posts: 29member
    Citing that recovering data is a lot of work and there are lots of phones needing data recovery as an excuse for Apple to, in effect, lie to customers that their data is not recoverable is not right, and I find it alarming to see a journalist (ok, editor) defend Apple for lying. If Apple don't want to invest the resources (that they can charge for and make money doing) to do proper support of their products, fine, but to blatantly lie and say there are no other options is wrong. Nothing prevents them from saying there are other repair shops outside their control that might be able to help, but to be careful.
    n2itivguyspace2001jakcrow
  • Reply 2 of 91
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 4,433administrator
    rcomeau said:
    Citing that recovering data is a lot of work and there are lots of phones needing data recovery as an excuse for Apple to, in effect, lie to customers that their data is not recoverable is not right, and I find it alarming to see a journalist (ok, editor) defend Apple for lying. If Apple don't want to invest the resources (that they can charge for and make money doing) to do proper support of their products, fine, but to blatantly lie and say there are no other options is wrong. Nothing prevents them from saying there are other repair shops outside their control that might be able to help, but to be careful.
    We've been told by Apple staff in service situations that there are data recovery options, without identifying as AppleInsider staff in any way. And, our genius bars that are local routinely tell customers that there are options. The CBC's sample of one service contact online saying so is hardly due diligence, the same way that they cited one Genius at an Apple Store about a repair price.

    This is a point that is worth addressing in the piece itself, so I thank you for pointing it out.
    edited April 2 rcomeaufotoformatn2itivguymagman1979StrangeDaysracerhomie3muthuk_vanalingamuraharaappleinsider_nobrain
  • Reply 3 of 91
    zoetmbzoetmb Posts: 2,437member
    It's because Apple does sell so many phones and has such an overwhelming number of consumers requiring service, whether under warranty or not, that they should be more cooperative in supporting third-party repair services with parts and repair guides. Ideally, Apple would certify third party repair shops for which they can charge a fee for the training and work involved. IMO, they should get rid of the Support Forums because they're about 90% useless - lots of redundant posts and frequently incorrect information and IMO, they hurt more than they help. Or, they should evaluate those who answer questions and certify them if they know what they're doing and not let anyone else respond. In the same thread, you can usually find completely contradictory responses. Apple could also be clearer and more helpful in their responses, with something like: "Apple cannot recover data from a phone that has been severely damaged whether in- or out-of warranty due to the low change of actually recovering such data and the high cost involved. Apple strongly recommends that data be regularly backed up to a computer and/or to iCloud. There are some third party organizations who claim that they can sometimes recover some data in a damaged phone for a fee. Consumers can use these services at their own risk and cost. These organizations are completely independent of Apple and Apple cannot in any way recommend or certify their services." As for the upset consumers, that's like complaining that the car dealer won't repair your engine after you ran it for 1000 miles with no oil in it and they've told you that while they can't fix it, you'd be welcome to take it to a third party repair shop. When are people going to take some personal responsibility for their own stupid actions? The photos I take on my phone are rarely important, but if they were, I'd probably use one of those backup devices they sell now that plug into the port.
    DAalseth
  • Reply 4 of 91
    Saying it’s not recoverable by Apple, doesn’t mean it’s not recoverable by anyone.

    Most OEMs would say the same thing.  “Backup your data before sending it in” and  “We aren’t responsible for data lose”.

    A more experienced tech would know that there are data recovery specialist out there, but it might be Apple’s policy not to mention them, to avoid liability.  In today’s world, Apple did nothing wrong.  Any halfway intelligent person should be able to find Google, and not rely 100% on barely above minimum wage Apple Store employees.  They do what they’re trained to do very well, but data recovery isn’t it.

    Apple recommends backing up to the iCloud or using iTunes.  If you run out of space on the free account, you get prompted ALL DAMN DAY!

    I’ve been a frequent critic of Apple lately, but this lawsuit is a stupid money grab, in the hope Apple settles to avoid bad PR.
  • Reply 5 of 91
    Canadian here who can confirm that the CBC can be a dumpster fire. I have 2 friends who worked at Wellington West in TO. The bottom line is this: with people retiring and cutbacks has led to a hiring spree of kids (their words, not mine, as I'm not a millennial basher) over the past decade. Many lack experience and, most annoyingly to my friends, simply cannot think outside of their bubble. Almost everything is binary. Now, you'd think a younger incoming workforce would be competent in the world of tech but no. This also plays out in tv shows like Marketplace. I could go on and on with stories but CBC isn't even on my radar anymore.
    magman1979
  • Reply 6 of 91
    No one is suggesting that Apple should do data recovery.
    No one is suggesting that Apple shouldn't be allowed to censor their own support forum.

    But if you're going to censor it, you GOTTA OWN IT.  Only APPLE can delete forum posts at Apple Support Community.  Only APPLE can ban users.  The APPLE SUPPORT COMMUNITY is an APPLE OWNED and APPLE MODERATED forum.

    They delete posts that merely say "hey, wet phones can be brought back to life, look around for someone"  They choose to delete those, but leave "There is no hope"  That is NOT OKAY.   

    Apple Insider--when someone shines a light on that--be human.  Admit--that this is absolutely NOT OKAY.  They choose to do it, so they gotta OWN IT.  There is no defense here.

    Lastly--I'm a mom who learned how to fix iPhones, I'm not a unicorn.  Neither is Louis.  I have trained over 400 students to microsolder and do board repair.  There are plenty of people out there who can do this work affordably and with good success.   Apple should not have a problem advising people to just look around a bit with no guarantee or endorsement.  They should not be recommending prohibitively expensive $2000+ services that also buy our supplies and  learn from our videos like the rest of the mom and pops, and they should not ever be telling people that hardware repair is "impossible"
    boboliciousbeowulfschmidtroundaboutnowspace2001jakcrowron_jeremyJMcLarenappleinsider_nobrain
  • Reply 7 of 91
    dpkrohdpkroh Posts: 15member
    I likely own more personal Apple products than 99% of AI readers***.  That doesn’t keep me from being objective.  Your last condescending line about how CBC apparently can’t be relied on for complete reporting, is ironic at best.

    Even given your above reply that you have had Apple staff tell you alternative recovery options is suspect, especially after your above comment regarding the CBC. It’s a little late to say “oh yeah, thanks for pointing that out”.  You accuse CBC of incomplete reporting yet you fail to address this obvious issue in your article until a reader points it out?  A little convenient I think, and coming after the article seems suspect without being able to prove it.

    In the article you also gloss over and dismiss Apple apparently deleting references in its forums to alternative recovery options.You make some weak excuse of legal quagmires of referencing 3rd parties, and then you completely castrate your own argument by trumpeting how it is absurd for someone to confuse Apple users in Apple forums with Apple employees. This in addition to claiming in your comment reply above that you have been told by Apple staff in service situations that there are other options.

    Your fail to take Apple to task for deleting this information with the weakest non-sene I have ever read... “well this is Apple’s house, so well we can’t say anything about that”.... seriously.... ? Isn’t that the whole point of the article?

    Do you actually believe your article is objective and balanced?

    It’s definitely not IMO helping dispel the Apple people as sheep stereotype.

    ***my personal current Apple products include an iPhone Xs Max, Apple Watch series 4, iPad Mini 5, 3rd gen 12.9 iPad Pro, Apple pencil 1 and 2, multiple Apple TV HD and 4K, MacBook Pro, iMac, and more.......  that doesn’t the numerous additional Apple products that I have purchased for other members of my household or other mostly retired Apple products I still own and have not sold.....
    edited April 2 chemenginappleinsider_nobrain
  • Reply 8 of 91
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 4,433administrator
    No one is suggesting that Apple should do data recovery.
    No one is suggesting that Apple shouldn't be allowed to censor their own support forum.

    But if you're going to censor it, you GOTTA OWN IT.  Only APPLE can delete forum posts at Apple Support Community.  Only APPLE can ban users.  The APPLE SUPPORT COMMUNITY is an APPLE OWNED and APPLE MODERATED forum.

    They delete posts that merely say "hey, wet phones can be brought back to life, look around for someone"  They choose to delete those, but leave "There is no hope"  That is NOT OKAY.   

    Apple Insider--when someone shines a light on that--be human.  Admit--that this is absolutely NOT OKAY.  They choose to do it, so they gotta OWN IT.  There is no defense here.

    Lastly--I'm a mom who learned how to fix iPhones, I'm not a unicorn.  Neither is Louis.  I have trained over 400 students to microsolder and do board repair.  There are plenty of people out there who can do this work affordably and with good success.   Apple should not have a problem advising people to just look around a bit with no guarantee or endorsement.  They should not be recommending prohibitively expensive $2000+ services that also buy our supplies and  learn from our videos like the rest of the mom and pops, and they should not ever be telling people that hardware repair is "impossible"
    Specifically, the Apple support community is Apple-owned, but volunteer-moderated. The moderators aren't all Apple employees, and not even a large percentage of them are Apple folks.

    We did address in the article about how we feel about the forum ban. We also addressed what we've been told by support folks regarding data recovery. We're aware that you've trained students. As we've very clearly said, this story isn't criticizing you, but is criticizing how the CBC continues to lack a clue regarding this matter, and can't even find one when shown where it is.
    edited April 2 fastasleepStrangeDaysroundaboutnow
  • Reply 9 of 91
    No one is suggesting that Apple should do data recovery.
    No one is suggesting that Apple shouldn't be allowed to censor their own support forum.

    But if you're going to censor it, you GOTTA OWN IT.  Only APPLE can delete forum posts at Apple Support Community.  Only APPLE can ban users.  The APPLE SUPPORT COMMUNITY is an APPLE OWNED and APPLE MODERATED forum.

    They delete posts that merely say "hey, wet phones can be brought back to life, look around for someone"  They choose to delete those, but leave "There is no hope"  That is NOT OKAY.   

    Apple Insider--when someone shines a light on that--be human.  Admit--that this is absolutely NOT OKAY.  They choose to do it, so they gotta OWN IT.  There is no defense here.

    Lastly--I'm a mom who learned how to fix iPhones, I'm not a unicorn.  Neither is Louis.  I have trained over 400 students to microsolder and do board repair.  There are plenty of people out there who can do this work affordably and with good success.   Apple should not have a problem advising people to just look around a bit with no guarantee or endorsement.  They should not be recommending prohibitively expensive $2000+ services that also buy our supplies and  learn from our videos like the rest of the mom and pops, and they should not ever be telling people that hardware repair is "impossible"
    I wonder how many have upon Apple advice simply surrendered their iDevices for 'repair' (swap) to Apple based on the understanding their data was irrecoverable, potentially putting their privacy at risk...?

    Could the push to market or represent (an illusion of) privacy be behind the post deletions...?

    edited April 2
  • Reply 10 of 91
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 4,433administrator
    dpkroh said:
    I likely own more personal Apple products than 99% of AI readers***.  That doesn’t keep me from being objective.  Your last condescending line about how CBC apparently can’t be relied on for complete reporting, is ironic at best.

    Even given your above reply that you have had Apple staff tell you alternative recovery options is suspect, especially after your above comment regarding the CBC. It’s a little late to say “oh yeah, thanks for pointing that out”.  You accuse CBC of incomplete reporting yet you fail to address this obvious issue in your article until a reader points it out?  A little convenient I think, and coming after the article seems suspect without being able to prove it.

    In the article you also gloss over and dismiss Apple apparently deleting references in its forums to alternative recovery options.You make some weak excuse of legal quagmires of referencing 3rd parties, and then you completely castrate your own argument by trumpeting how it is absurd for someone to confuse Apple users in Apple forums with Apple employees. This in addition to claiming in your comment reply above that you have been told by Apple staff in service situations that there are other options.

    Your fail to take Apple to task for deleting this information with the weakest non-sene I have ever read... “well this is Apple’s house, so well we can’t say anything about that”.... seriously.... ? Isn’t that the whole point of the article?

    Do you actually believe your article is objective and balanced?

    It’s definitely not IMO helping dispel the Apple people as sheep stereotype.

    ***my personal current Apple products include an iPhone Xs Max, Apple Watch series 4, iPad Mini 5, 3rd gen 12.9 iPad Pro, Apple pencil 1 and 2, multiple Apple TV HD and 4K, MacBook Pro, iMac, and more.......  that doesn’t the numerous additional Apple products that I have purchased for other members of my household or other mostly retired Apple products I still own and have not sold.....
    No, I don't. This is an editorial, and is clearly labeled as such. By definition, editorials have opinions. The CBC tried to call theirs objective, and news, though, so you should look elsewhere.

    Saying that there are options is not the same as saying what the options are, and recommending a service. This is where your argument falls flat. In regards to everything else, you're welcome to believe what you want, but given that you're having a hard time understanding what "editorial" means, I'm not certain that you're a good judge.

    Oh, also? Your appeal to authority by listing your Apple products is hollow. Based on what we know about forum-goers, at least, this probably puts you in the lower 25% of readership as far as hardware ownership goes.

    Edit: Look at that, comment below this one. The proof you wanted.
    edited April 2 shark5150The_Martini_Catmagman1979n2itivguypbruttoStrangeDays
  • Reply 11 of 91
    sully54sully54 Posts: 83member
    I used to work at the Genius Bar. We would give customers options for recovering their data through third part companies.

    At at the end of the day though, it’s your data so take responsibility for it. You don’t need to be an expert if technology to know that a photo you take on any phone needs a backup. Paradigms haven’t changed since the days of film cameras. 

    As a canadian, I apologies to the rest of the world for this kind of misinformation from our public broadcaster. 
    fastasleepmagman1979n2itivguypbruttoStrangeDays
  • Reply 12 of 91
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 4,433administrator
    I wonder how many have upon Apple advice simply surrendered their iDevices for 'repair' (swap) to Apple based on the understanding their data was irrecoverable, potentially putting their privacy at risk...?

    Could the push to market or represent (an illusion of) privacy be behind the post deletions...?

    What would be the mechanism of this privacy loss?
  • Reply 13 of 91
    I wonder how many have upon Apple advice simply surrendered their iDevices for 'repair' (swap) to Apple based on the understanding their data was irrecoverable, potentially putting their privacy at risk...?

    Could the push to market or represent (an illusion of) privacy be behind the post deletions...?

    What would be the mechanism of this privacy loss?
    "I'm a mom who learned how to fix iPhones, I'm not a unicorn.  Neither is Louis.  I have trained over 400 students to microsolder and do board repair.  There are plenty of people out there who can do this work"

    Clearly it is not considered difficult by Ms Jones...

    There is of course Liam: 
    https://techcrunch.com/2016/03/21/apple-creates-robot-to-rip-apart-iphones/
    edited April 2
  • Reply 14 of 91
    jbdragonjbdragon Posts: 2,076member
    I have to say, WHY THE HELL are you keeping all your valuable picture ONLY ON YOUR PHONE in the first place??? How many times do people need to be told to BACKUP!!!

    In fact it's really simple on the iphone. As all your Pictures will get backed up into iCLOUD. If the free storage is not enough, it's pretty cheap, to get a bunch more iCloud storage. So my Pictures are on iCloud automatically. I can log into ANY computer and go to www.iCloud.com. I then Log in and click on Pictures and what do you know,they are ALL there. This woman may not even realize that she has pictures in icloud already.

    I also have a Apple app on my PC. So my Windows PC downloads automatically all my new pictures form my iPhone and iPad also right onto my Windows PC. So that's a second backup. iCLoud is #1, Windows PC is #2. BUT I also use Carbonite for off site backup. So it backs up a number of important files on my PC and that includes all my Pictures. That is Backup #3. But wait that's not all. You have FREE Picture backup from Google. So Using Google's Photo app, it can also Automatically backup all your pictures to them. You can view those at Google also. That is my backup #4. There is a #5 for me and that is Amazon. If you are a Amazon Prime Member, you can backup all your pictures to them also using the Amazon Photo app. it'll backup automatically so that is 5 backup's of my Photo's.

    #1 iCloud #2 WIndows PC #3 Carbonite #4 Google #5 Amazon.

    iCloud is fully automatic. So is my PC and Carbonite. I don't have to do a single thing. They all just work in the background. Google and Amazon, you have to have their app running for them to backup. Make sure you have the needed settings turned ON.

    It is beyond DUMB to not have your pictured backed up!!!!!!!! There is ZERO excuse for it these days. There would have been no need to run to Apple, or pay someone else $300 so you can get your pctures because you were foolish enough to get your phone WET and then have zero backup. If your pictures are Important, than having them on your phone ONLY is DUMB. Say you didn't get your phone wet. Someone took your phone or you lost it. Not there's not a single thing you could do to get any pictures from it. Not from Apple and not from anyone else. It's GONE!!! Don't blame Apple for your stupidity.

    iCloud takes ZERO effort. You get 5 Gig's FREE, but for only 12 Dollars a year, $1 a month, you can get 50 Gig's which is what I have. Your apps don't count against your storage. I'm only using 32.6GB out of my 50GB. I have a TON of pictures and some video's. This takes almost NO EFFORT. Something you really don't have to think about unless something happens with your phone!!!

    There are other storage options out there. This should be a NON-ISSUE. Always have a BACKUP. I have 18TB on my NAS at home. Even though it's RAID5, and if a HDD crashes, I can pop a new one in and not lose any Data. Other things CAN happen. Which is why I have a Second NAS that is ONLY a Backup.
    edited April 2 magman1979
  • Reply 15 of 91
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 4,433administrator
    I wonder how many have upon Apple advice simply surrendered their iDevices for 'repair' (swap) to Apple based on the understanding their data was irrecoverable, potentially putting their privacy at risk...?

    Could the push to market or represent (an illusion of) privacy be behind the post deletions...?

    What would be the mechanism of this privacy loss?
    "I'm a mom who learned how to fix iPhones, I'm not a unicorn.  Neither is Louis.  I have trained over 400 students to microsolder and do board repair.  There are plenty of people out there who can do this work"

    Clearly it is not considered difficult by Ms Jones...

    There is of course Liam: https://techcrunch.com/2016/03/21/apple-creates-robot-to-rip-apart-iphones/
    Given encryption, and the secure enclave, I'm still not sure why privacy would be endangered by any of the above. Certainly not by Liam.
  • Reply 16 of 91

    "I'm a mom who learned how to fix iPhones, I'm not a unicorn.  Neither is Louis.  I have trained over 400 students to microsolder and do board repair.  There are plenty of people out there who can do this work"

    Clearly it is not considered difficult by Ms Jones...

    There is of course Liam: https://techcrunch.com/2016/03/21/apple-creates-robot-to-rip-apart-iphones/
    Given encryption, and the secure enclave, I'm still not sure why privacy would be endangered by any of the above. Certainly not by Liam.
    I certainly hope you are correct...
  • Reply 17 of 91
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 4,433administrator

    "I'm a mom who learned how to fix iPhones, I'm not a unicorn.  Neither is Louis.  I have trained over 400 students to microsolder and do board repair.  There are plenty of people out there who can do this work"

    Clearly it is not considered difficult by Ms Jones...

    There is of course Liam: https://techcrunch.com/2016/03/21/apple-creates-robot-to-rip-apart-iphones/
    Given encryption, and the secure enclave, I'm still not sure why privacy would be endangered by any of the above. Certainly not by Liam.
    I certainly hope you are correct...
    I may be missing something. What's your scenario how the privacy is lost given either of the above situations?
  • Reply 18 of 91
    No one is suggesting that Apple should do data recovery.
    No one is suggesting that Apple shouldn't be allowed to censor their own support forum.

    But if you're going to censor it, you GOTTA OWN IT.  Only APPLE can delete forum posts at Apple Support Community.  Only APPLE can ban users.  The APPLE SUPPORT COMMUNITY is an APPLE OWNED and APPLE MODERATED forum.

    They delete posts that merely say "hey, wet phones can be brought back to life, look around for someone"  They choose to delete those, but leave "There is no hope"  That is NOT OKAY.&"
    Specifically, the Apple support community is Apple-owned, but volunteer-moderated. The moderators aren't all Apple employees, and not even a large percentage of them are Apple folks.
    <</div>
    Except that...this isn't true. Apple Support Community has a ton of laypeople forum 'regulars' but they don't have the authority to delete posts or ban users. ONLY APPLE EMPLOYEES are moderators. And stop being a jerk to CBC here. They did a great piece here and every word of what they presented was the truth. Here's a starting place to look up the role of Apple employees within the Apple Support Community Forum. https://discussions.apple.com/thread/5011235
  • Reply 19 of 91
    magman1979magman1979 Posts: 1,122member
    No one is suggesting that Apple should do data recovery.
    No one is suggesting that Apple shouldn't be allowed to censor their own support forum.

    But if you're going to censor it, you GOTTA OWN IT.  Only APPLE can delete forum posts at Apple Support Community.  Only APPLE can ban users.  The APPLE SUPPORT COMMUNITY is an APPLE OWNED and APPLE MODERATED forum.

    They delete posts that merely say "hey, wet phones can be brought back to life, look around for someone"  They choose to delete those, but leave "There is no hope"  That is NOT OKAY.   

    Apple Insider--when someone shines a light on that--be human.  Admit--that this is absolutely NOT OKAY.  They choose to do it, so they gotta OWN IT.  There is no defense here.

    Lastly--I'm a mom who learned how to fix iPhones, I'm not a unicorn.  Neither is Louis.  I have trained over 400 students to microsolder and do board repair.  There are plenty of people out there who can do this work affordably and with good success.   Apple should not have a problem advising people to just look around a bit with no guarantee or endorsement.  They should not be recommending prohibitively expensive $2000+ services that also buy our supplies and  learn from our videos like the rest of the mom and pops, and they should not ever be telling people that hardware repair is "impossible"
    This response just put you in my black list... You obviously didn't read the editorial in full, as all the points you vocally bring up were addressed, and you still fail to comprehend, along with that dumpster organization called CBC, the scale of Apple's operation and how things work.

    You also cling to the Apple USER Forum as some form of "written in stone" testament to how Apple operates, when NOTHING could be further from the truth!

    I'm not going to debate the individual points you bring up, as they've already been knocked down by this editorial.

    Although I am going to reiterate this, as I do to ALL the users I support in my IT profession (which is advanced sys admin); BACKUP YOUR DATA! If you don't, for whatever reason, and something happens, don't go crying to mommy, and instead blame yourself!

    Oh, and both you and CBC are FLAT OUT WRONG when you both claim Apple doesn't offer support in directing customers to third-party options for data recovery that Apple themselves cannot perform. I've PERSONALLY gone to Apple Stores in my area on behalf of my users with their devices seeking assistance, and was told, in each event data recovery was needed, that they cannot do it, but third-party options are available, but cannot be guaranteed. So I would advise you, and the CBC, to retract that bogus claim.
    roundaboutnow
  • Reply 20 of 91
    magman1979magman1979 Posts: 1,122member

    sully54 said:
    I used to work at the Genius Bar. We would give customers options for recovering their data through third part companies.

    At at the end of the day though, it’s your data so take responsibility for it. You don’t need to be an expert if technology to know that a photo you take on any phone needs a backup. Paradigms haven’t changed since the days of film cameras. 

    As a canadian, I apologies to the rest of the world for this kind of misinformation from our public broadcaster. 
    Thank you very much for posting this! As a Canadian myself, I'm embarrassed by the lack of journalistic integrity and accuracy in their reporting, as I've now, on multiple occasions, caught them either spreading the same misinformation as other news outlets, to downright LYING on "exclusive" stories, to the point where I rarely consider them a viable news source.

    Anecdotally, if you look at the user comment forums under each article, they attract a massive anti-Apple troll following, and in general seem to salivate over anything negative or inflammatory towards Apple, whether true or false, much like most mainstream news outlets these days.
    lkruppsully54roundaboutnow
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