Vodafone set to deploy UK 5G on July 3 using controversial Huawei gear

Posted:
in iPhone
Vodafone will become the U.K.'s first 5G carrier, switching on several cities on July 3 -- though controversially using some Huawei equipment for infrastructure.

iPhone XR


Initial cities will include Birmingham, Bristol, Cardiff, Glasgow, Manchester, Liverpool, and London, according to BBC News. Pricing and supported devices have yet to be announced, but unlike Verizon in the U.S., Vodafone won't charge a premium over 4G.

Cities scheduled to get 5G by the end of 2019 include: Birkenhead, Blackpool, Bournemouth, Guildford, Newbury, Portsmouth, Plymouth, Reading, Southampton, Stoke-on-Trent, Warrington, and Wolverhampton.

The decision to use Huawei-made equipment could potentially thwart expansion plans. The U.K. government is reviewing whether or not Huawei represents a security risk, and a decision against it would force Vodafone to scramble for alternatives.

Huawei is widely believed to have ties to China's authoritarian regime, which in turn is known to regularly launch cyberattacks on Western countries and corporations. While hackers are typically only looking to steal secrets or probe defenses, any sudden break in diplomacy could open the door to sabotage, at least without proper security.

The company is already fighting a ban on selling products to the U.S. government. Huawei has denied any wrongdoing, some accusations being espionage, violating sanctions on Iran, and stealing T-Mobile trade secrets.

Apple isn't expected to have any 5G-capable iPhones until 2020, having only just reached a legal settlement with chipmaker Qualcomm. Intel has abandoned 5G modems, and Apple's internal modem development might not bear fruit in time.

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 13
    22july201322july2013 Posts: 738member
    For those of you who are paranoid about the US govt installing trap doors in domestic products to spy on you, are you also worried about China doing the same?
    macseekertmaywatto_cobra
  • Reply 2 of 13
    This is interesting from another aspect as EU made decision that has just stopped 5G deployments.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 3 of 13
    I sure hope Vodaphone has all the source code to the Huawei firmware and absolute control over updates. If not, Vodaphone is just hoping that the Chinese military have not inserted back doors. I am sure the initial version will be clean but later on there could be a little update ...
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 4 of 13
    For those of you who are paranoid about the US govt installing trap doors in domestic products to spy on you, are you also worried about China doing the same?
    Yes but for different reasons. I am worried the US government will spy on my data. I am worried that China is spying on US government data. Of the two, the latter is the vastly larger threat.
    ronnbadmonk
  • Reply 5 of 13
    tzeshantzeshan Posts: 1,996member
    For those of you who are paranoid about the US govt installing trap doors in domestic products to spy on you, are you also worried about China doing the same?
    Yes but for different reasons. I am worried the US government will spy on my data. I am worried that China is spying on US government data. Of the two, the latter is the vastly larger threat.
    Why would China spy on US government data? Because US government is planning to attack it or destroy its economy?
  • Reply 6 of 13
    ivanhivanh Posts: 372member
    Why everyone just care about 5G? In fact, all IoT or Smart-home devices, even a lightbulb, are accessing your home Wi-Fi and being controlled via the manufacturer’s mandatory cloud service. Many of them are hosted in China. There could be a mic, or additional sensors monitoring every sound and motion of your whereabouts.
  • Reply 7 of 13
    sgordonsgordon Posts: 30member
    What a lot of panic about nothing... first off as noted on the bbc panorama program there is exactly zero signs despite looking of any back doors special code or anything.  well to be more precise their code sometimes has stuff not clamped down just like other vendors who forget to delete normal engineering back doors that are there often for factory or maintenance reasons and like some other vendors poor code control resulting in vulnerabilities and known exploits in operating systems.

    secondly, no other government leaning on no other vendor for back doors or ways in when they need it ? naive...

    thirdly, we are at one and the same time saying the chinese are so thick they cannot innovate and have to steal and copy and at the same time so smart they can implement secret measures that our security service experts are unable to find ?

    finally, you want to be worried ? guess how many of your phones fridges cars microwaves radios computers etc etc have chinese devices in them ?

    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 8 of 13
    bigmikebigmike Posts: 253member
    Anyone who is interested in how 5G affects health:

    Thousands of studies link low-level wireless radio frequency radiation exposures to a long list of adverse biological effects, including:



    DNA single and double strand breaks

    oxidative damage

    disruption of cell metabolism

    increased blood brain barrier permeability

    melatonin reduction

    disruption to brain glucose metabolism

    generation of stress proteins



    in 2011 the World Health Organization (WHO) classified radio frequency radiation as a possible 2B carcinogen.



    More recently the $25 million National Toxicology Program concluded that radio frequency radiation of the type currently used by cell phones can cause cancer.



    #1 – A DENSER SOUP OF ELECTROSMOG

    We’re going to be bombarded by really high frequencies at low, short-range intensities creating a yet more complicated denser soup of electrosmog



    #2 – EFFECTS ON THE SKIN

    The effects of millimeter waves as studied by Dr. Yael Stein of Hebrew University is said to also cause humans physical pain as our nociceptors flare up in recognition of the wave as a damaging stimuli. So we’re looking at possibilities of many skin diseases and cancer as well as physical pain to our skin.



    #3 – EFFECTS ON THE EYES

    A 1994 study found that low level millimeter microwave radiation produced lens opacity in rats, which is linked to the production of cataracts.

    A 2003 Chinese study has also found damage to the lens epithelial cells of rabbits after 8 hours of exposure to microwave radiation and a 2009 study conducted by the College of Physicians and Surgeons in Pakistan conclude that EMFs emitted by a mobile phone cause derangement of chicken embryo retinal differentiation.



    #4 – EFFECTS ON THE HEART

    A 1992 Russian study found that frequencies in the range 53-78GHz (that which 5G proposes to use) impacted the heart rate variability (an indicator of stress) in rats. Another Russian study on frogs who’s skin was exposed to MMWs found heart rate changes (arrhythmias).



    #5 – IMMUNE SYSTEM EFFECTS

    A 2002 Russian study examined the effects of 42HGz microwave radiation exposure on the blood of healthy mice. It was concluded that “the whole-body exposure of healthy mice to low-intensity EHF EMR has a profound effect on the indices of nonspecific immunity”.



    #6 – EFFECTS ON CELL GROWTH RATES

    A 2016 Armenian study observed MMWs at low intensity, mirroring the future environment brought about by 5G. Their study conducted on E-coli and other bacteria stated that the waves had depressed their growth as well as “changing properties and activity” of the cells. The concern is that it would do the same to human cells.



    #7 – EFFECTS ON BACTERIA RESISTANCE

    The very same Armenian study also suggested that MMWs effects are mainly on water, cell plasma membrane and genome too. They had found that MMW’s interaction with bacteria altered their sensitivity to “different biologically active chemicals, including antibiotics.” More specifically, the combination of MMW and antibiotics showed that it may be leading to antibiotic resistance in bacteria.

    This groundbreaking finding could have a magnum effect on the health of human beings as the bandwidth is rolled out nationwide. The concern is that we develop a lower resistance to bacteria as our cells become more vulnerable – and we become more vulnerable.



    #8 – EFFECTS ON PLANT HEALTH

    One of the features of 5G is that the MMW is particularly susceptible to being absorbed by plants and rain. Humans and animals alike consume plants as a food source. The effects MMW has on plants could leave us with food that’s not safe to consume.



    #9 – EFFECTS ON THE ATMOSPHERE AND DEPLETION OF FOSSIL FUELS

    Implementation of the 5G global wireless network requires the launching of rockets to deploy satellites for 5G. These satellites have a short lifespan which would require a lot more deployment than what we’re currently seeing. A new type of hydrocarbon rocket engine expected to power a fleet of suborbital rockets would emit black carbon which “could cause potentially significant changes in the global atmospheric circulation and distributions of ozone and temperature” according to a 2010 Californian study. Solid state rocket exhaust contains chlorine which also destroys the ozone.



    The effects on the ozone are thought to be worse than current day CFC exposure.



    Google’s Project Loon is said to bring Internet to rural and hard-to-access areas by using helium balloons. But these balloons only have a 10-month lifespan. We’re looking at a lot of helium being used here, more than what we can possibly have on Earth?



    #10 – DISRUPTION OF THE NATURAL ECOSYSTEM

    Since the year 2000, there have been reports of birds abandoning their nests as well as health issues like “plumage deterioration, locomotion problems, reduced survivorship and death,” says researcher Alfonso Balmori. Bird species that are affected by these low levels, non-ionizing microwave radiation are the House Sparrows, Rock Doves, White Storks, Collared Doves and Magpies, among others.



    But it’s not just the birds. The declining bee population is also said to be linked to this non-ionizing EMF radiation. It reduces the egg-laying abilities of the queen leading to a decline in colony strength.



    A study conducted by Chennai’s Loyola College in 2012 concluded that out of 919 research studies carried out on birds, plants, bees and other animals and humans, 593 of them showed impacts from RF-EMF radiations. 5G will be adding to the effects of this electrosmog.



    #11 – MOST 5G STUDIES MISLEADING

    5G will use pulsed millimeter waves to carry information. But as Dr. Joel Moskowitz points out, most 5G studies are misleading because they do not pulse the waves. This is important because research on microwaves already tells us how pulsed waves have more profound biological effects on our body compared to non-pulsed waves. Previous studies, for instance, show how pulse rates of the frequencies led to gene toxicity and DNA strand breaks.



    WHAT EXPERTS ARE SAYING

    “Along with the 5G there is another thing coming – Internet of Things. If you look at it combined the radiation level is going to increase tremendously and yet the industry is very excited about it…. they project 5G/IoT business to be a $7 trillion business.”

    -Prof. Girish Kumar, Professor at Electrical Engineering Department at IIT Bombay



    “The new 5G wireless technology involves millimeter waves (extremely high frequencies) producing photons of much greater energy than even 4G and WiFi. Allowing this technology to be used without proving its safety is reckless in the extreme, as the millimeter waves are known to have a profound effect on all parts of the human body.”

    -Prof. Trevor Marshall, Director Autoimmunity Research Foundation, California



    “The plans to beam highly penetrative 5G milliwave radiation at us from space must surely be one of the greatest follies ever conceived of by mankind. There will be nowhere safe to live.”

    -Olga Sheean former WHO employee and author of ‘No Safe Place’



    “It would irradiate everyone, including the most vulnerable to harm from radiofrequency radiation: pregnant women, unborn children, young children, teenagers, men of reproductive age, the elderly, the disabled, and the chronically ill.”

    —Ronald Powell, PhD, Letter to FCC on 5G expansion



    How To Protect Yourself From 5G

    1. Understand your exposures. Understand the different types of EMFs and how they behave – hence the need to read (and share) articles like this one.

    2. Measure – use an EMF meter to obtain readings and identify hotspots.

    3. Mitigate your exposure. Which means either eliminate the source, move further away from the source of radiation or shield your body.



    There is a concern that current EMF meters are not able to measure the frequencies of MMWs. On this point, researcher Alasdair Philips from Powerwatch states “current RF meters cover the frequency ranges proposed for most 5G use in the next three years”.
    edited May 14
  • Reply 9 of 13
    anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 19,284member
    Calling all the Huawei employees.... calling all the Huawei employees!
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 10 of 13
    anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 19,284member
    bigmike said:


    How To Protect Yourself From 5G

    1. Understand your exposures. Understand the different types of EMFs and how they behave – hence the need to read (and share) articles like this one.

    2. Measure – use an EMF meter to obtain readings and identify hotspots.

    3. Mitigate your exposure. Which means either eliminate the source, move further away from the source of radiation or shield your body.
    Groan. "Project Loon", indeed. Let me add a #4 since you sound a tad paranoid: Buy a frikkin' pair of earbuds when you make/receive calls.

    (Oh, as an aside, I am curious: do you think vaccinations work?)
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 11 of 13
    tzeshantzeshan Posts: 1,996member
    bigmike said:
    Anyone who is interested in how 5G affects health:

    Thousands of studies link low-level wireless radio frequency radiation exposures to a long list of adverse biological effects, including:



    DNA single and double strand breaks

    oxidative damage

    disruption of cell metabolism

    increased blood brain barrier permeability

    melatonin reduction

    disruption to brain glucose metabolism

    generation of stress proteins



    in 2011 the World Health Organization (WHO) classified radio frequency radiation as a possible 2B carcinogen.



    More recently the $25 million National Toxicology Program concluded that radio frequency radiation of the type currently used by cell phones can cause cancer.



    #1 – A DENSER SOUP OF ELECTROSMOG

    We’re going to be bombarded by really high frequencies at low, short-range intensities creating a yet more complicated denser soup of electrosmog



    #2 – EFFECTS ON THE SKIN

    The effects of millimeter waves as studied by Dr. Yael Stein of Hebrew University is said to also cause humans physical pain as our nociceptors flare up in recognition of the wave as a damaging stimuli. So we’re looking at possibilities of many skin diseases and cancer as well as physical pain to our skin.



    #3 – EFFECTS ON THE EYES

    A 1994 study found that low level millimeter microwave radiation produced lens opacity in rats, which is linked to the production of cataracts.

    A 2003 Chinese study has also found damage to the lens epithelial cells of rabbits after 8 hours of exposure to microwave radiation and a 2009 study conducted by the College of Physicians and Surgeons in Pakistan conclude that EMFs emitted by a mobile phone cause derangement of chicken embryo retinal differentiation.



    #4 – EFFECTS ON THE HEART

    A 1992 Russian study found that frequencies in the range 53-78GHz (that which 5G proposes to use) impacted the heart rate variability (an indicator of stress) in rats. Another Russian study on frogs who’s skin was exposed to MMWs found heart rate changes (arrhythmias).



    #5 – IMMUNE SYSTEM EFFECTS

    A 2002 Russian study examined the effects of 42HGz microwave radiation exposure on the blood of healthy mice. It was concluded that “the whole-body exposure of healthy mice to low-intensity EHF EMR has a profound effect on the indices of nonspecific immunity”.



    #6 – EFFECTS ON CELL GROWTH RATES

    A 2016 Armenian study observed MMWs at low intensity, mirroring the future environment brought about by 5G. Their study conducted on E-coli and other bacteria stated that the waves had depressed their growth as well as “changing properties and activity” of the cells. The concern is that it would do the same to human cells.



    #7 – EFFECTS ON BACTERIA RESISTANCE

    The very same Armenian study also suggested that MMWs effects are mainly on water, cell plasma membrane and genome too. They had found that MMW’s interaction with bacteria altered their sensitivity to “different biologically active chemicals, including antibiotics.” More specifically, the combination of MMW and antibiotics showed that it may be leading to antibiotic resistance in bacteria.

    This groundbreaking finding could have a magnum effect on the health of human beings as the bandwidth is rolled out nationwide. The concern is that we develop a lower resistance to bacteria as our cells become more vulnerable – and we become more vulnerable.



    #8 – EFFECTS ON PLANT HEALTH

    One of the features of 5G is that the MMW is particularly susceptible to being absorbed by plants and rain. Humans and animals alike consume plants as a food source. The effects MMW has on plants could leave us with food that’s not safe to consume.



    #9 – EFFECTS ON THE ATMOSPHERE AND DEPLETION OF FOSSIL FUELS

    Implementation of the 5G global wireless network requires the launching of rockets to deploy satellites for 5G. These satellites have a short lifespan which would require a lot more deployment than what we’re currently seeing. A new type of hydrocarbon rocket engine expected to power a fleet of suborbital rockets would emit black carbon which “could cause potentially significant changes in the global atmospheric circulation and distributions of ozone and temperature” according to a 2010 Californian study. Solid state rocket exhaust contains chlorine which also destroys the ozone.



    The effects on the ozone are thought to be worse than current day CFC exposure.



    Google’s Project Loon is said to bring Internet to rural and hard-to-access areas by using helium balloons. But these balloons only have a 10-month lifespan. We’re looking at a lot of helium being used here, more than what we can possibly have on Earth?



    #10 – DISRUPTION OF THE NATURAL ECOSYSTEM

    Since the year 2000, there have been reports of birds abandoning their nests as well as health issues like “plumage deterioration, locomotion problems, reduced survivorship and death,” says researcher Alfonso Balmori. Bird species that are affected by these low levels, non-ionizing microwave radiation are the House Sparrows, Rock Doves, White Storks, Collared Doves and Magpies, among others.



    But it’s not just the birds. The declining bee population is also said to be linked to this non-ionizing EMF radiation. It reduces the egg-laying abilities of the queen leading to a decline in colony strength.



    A study conducted by Chennai’s Loyola College in 2012 concluded that out of 919 research studies carried out on birds, plants, bees and other animals and humans, 593 of them showed impacts from RF-EMF radiations. 5G will be adding to the effects of this electrosmog.



    #11 – MOST 5G STUDIES MISLEADING

    5G will use pulsed millimeter waves to carry information. But as Dr. Joel Moskowitz points out, most 5G studies are misleading because they do not pulse the waves. This is important because research on microwaves already tells us how pulsed waves have more profound biological effects on our body compared to non-pulsed waves. Previous studies, for instance, show how pulse rates of the frequencies led to gene toxicity and DNA strand breaks.



    WHAT EXPERTS ARE SAYING

    “Along with the 5G there is another thing coming – Internet of Things. If you look at it combined the radiation level is going to increase tremendously and yet the industry is very excited about it…. they project 5G/IoT business to be a $7 trillion business.”

    -Prof. Girish Kumar, Professor at Electrical Engineering Department at IIT Bombay



    “The new 5G wireless technology involves millimeter waves (extremely high frequencies) producing photons of much greater energy than even 4G and WiFi. Allowing this technology to be used without proving its safety is reckless in the extreme, as the millimeter waves are known to have a profound effect on all parts of the human body.”

    -Prof. Trevor Marshall, Director Autoimmunity Research Foundation, California



    “The plans to beam highly penetrative 5G milliwave radiation at us from space must surely be one of the greatest follies ever conceived of by mankind. There will be nowhere safe to live.”

    -Olga Sheean former WHO employee and author of ‘No Safe Place’



    “It would irradiate everyone, including the most vulnerable to harm from radiofrequency radiation: pregnant women, unborn children, young children, teenagers, men of reproductive age, the elderly, the disabled, and the chronically ill.”

    —Ronald Powell, PhD, Letter to FCC on 5G expansion



    How To Protect Yourself From 5G

    1. Understand your exposures. Understand the different types of EMFs and how they behave – hence the need to read (and share) articles like this one.

    2. Measure – use an EMF meter to obtain readings and identify hotspots.

    3. Mitigate your exposure. Which means either eliminate the source, move further away from the source of radiation or shield your body.



    There is a concern that current EMF meters are not able to measure the frequencies of MMWs. On this point, researcher Alasdair Philips from Powerwatch states “current RF meters cover the frequency ranges proposed for most 5G use in the next three years”.
    Wow! These people should be given Nobel prize in physiology!
  • Reply 12 of 13
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 4,056member
    Vodafone favours Huawei and has done for years. It has gone on record as saying without Huawei, 5G would be set back by 12/18 months, that Huawei equipment is far superior to the competition and prices are competitive.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/25/vodafone-ceo-defends-competition-from-huawei-at-mwc-2019.html

    The UK has had no spying issues with Huawei and it is one of the few companies which the UK government can scrutinise. Huawei has been under scrutiny by 'CELL' for years.

    Even US companies favour Huawei. From small rural operators to carriers like AT&T which is a Huawei partner in Mexico.

    https://www.fiercewireless.com/wireless/huawei-equipment-currently-deployed-by-25-u-s-rural-wireless-carriers-rwa-says

    What we have seen for the last two years is a more concerted effort by the US government to interfere with the decision making process in third countries and domestic businesses.

    As for Huawei's ties with the Chinese government, they have stated they go no further than normal communications.

    The same accusations could be made about ties between Cisco and the US government. Accusations are easy to make. What counts though, is proof.

    https://www.tomshardware.com/news/cisco-backdoor-hardcoded-accounts-software,37480.html

    Thanks to Edward Snowden we know a fair bit about the US government and its ties to private enterprise.

    What worries the US is not security but that it is losing influence. It dropped the ball on 5G for starters.

    Cisco (current networking leader) is now also under serious threat from Huawei in the switching market.

    http://www.itcandor.com/network-2018/

    https://avidthink.com/analysis/huawei-cloudengine-16800-ascend-ai/

    Huawei may also be moving into the enterprise class database business.

    https://www.fastcompany.com/90347709/huawei-is-about-to-take-on-oracle-in-the-database-market

    EDIT: Announced this morning. Official blurb:

    https://www.huawei.com/en/press-events/news/2019/5/huawei-launches-ai-native-database

    Huawei is also heavily invested in the solar power generation market where, once again, the US doesn't like it.

    https://www.solarpowerworldonline.com/2019/02/guest-column-huawei-unfairly-targeted/

    Huawei has a strong position in the video surveillance and TV component business too.

    The same story: better hardware, better prices.

    Etc.

    All of that is reason enough for the US to worry. To worry so much that it is actually bullying allies. Its allies are utterly pissed off at what they see as intromission by a state which is not acting in the interest of the greater good but solely its own commercial (and ultimately 'influence') interests. The US wants to have an 'American Huawei' but as it doesn't, it feels it has to cut down a strong competitor to US enterprise. Perhaps the real 'controversy' is that so much damage has been done to Huawei without a shred of evidence of spying being presented.

    https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/opinion/article/3009842/us-anxiety-over-huawei-sequel-yellow-peril

    Unfortunately, Theresa May is not doing a very good job and may not be around long enough to even see a final decision on Huawei. However, if you speak to the experts (the carriers who will be operating the networks) there is no 'controversy'. It should be business as usual but someone is just perpetually shaking the cage.

    I'm for a common sense approach. A vendor neutral platform for business with industry approved security certification in place. This was discussed at the start of the year with Huawei leading the calls.




    edited May 15
  • Reply 13 of 13
    badmonkbadmonk Posts: 819member
    tzeshan said:
    For those of you who are paranoid about the US govt installing trap doors in domestic products to spy on you, are you also worried about China doing the same?
    Yes but for different reasons. I am worried the US government will spy on my data. I am worried that China is spying on US government data. Of the two, the latter is the vastly larger threat.
    Why would China spy on US government data? Because US government is planning to attack it or destroy its economy?
    here is an example for you—
    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/jun/04/us-government-massive-data-breach-employee-records-security-clearances
Sign In or Register to comment.