'Right to Repair' debate in DC continues, focuses on monopoly busting

Posted:
in General Discussion
Right-to-repair advocates -- and opponents -- are filing opinions with the US Federal Trade Commission and Department of Justice, all hoping to influence the debate on whether or not tech firms have the right to dictate how and where their devices are repaired.




Lobbyists on both sides of the right-to-repair argument have headed to Washington physically and digitally to discuss whether or not an end-user has the right to repair a device themselves or through a third-party company.

Gay Gordon-Byrne, the Executive Director of the Digital Right to Repair Coalition, issued a statement to the Department of Justice's Anti-Trust subcommittee during following an initial hearing on July 16. The statement focuses on how monopolies hurt small businesses and cost consumers more in the end.

"Technology repair is being thwarted across many industries in the same way as it had been thwarted for automotive repair. Monopolized repair is common because it is easy to do, highly lucrative, and until recently, has gone unchallenged," the statement reads. "Repair as a business is separate from that of manufacturing, retailing or software development. Tying repair to the sale shouldn't be allowed, but has become the norm. Manufacturers consistently assert that they alone should be allowed to make repairs."

The issue has spread across the U.S., with over a dozen states introducing right-to-repair legislation in the last couple years. If the legislation were to pass, manufacturers, such as Apple, would have to provide repair manuals and spare parts to the public. Proponents, including Gordon-Byrne, argue that this would help small businesses thrive, save consumers money, as well as reduce environmental impact.

Other advocates, such as Nathan Proctor, who directs a separate Right to Repair Campaign, had said that companies such as Apple have an incentive to restrict the repair of their devices.

"Earlier this year, in a letter to shareholders, Apple CEO Tim Cook announced that iPhone sales were lagging behind projections. Among other reasons, Cook noted a contributing factor was "customers taking advantage of significantly reduced pricing for iPhone battery replacements," the first time Apple has admitted repair hurts its profits," Proctor said in the July 16 hearing before The House Judiciary Subcommittee on Antitrust, Commercial and Administrative Law.

There's an argument to be made for letting Apple-authorized service providers have the exclusive rights to repairing a device as well. As the years have advanced, and devices have gotten slimmer, design choices like sealed devices and glued-in batteries have reduced failure rates over the last 20 years. But, these choices can, and do, cut back on what consumers can easily or safely repair.

Repairs attempted by someone without proper training could lead to damage to the device, or more worryingly, injure the person providing a repair. Lithium-ion batteries are especially dangerous. A 2018 incident in China saw a man rupture a replacement battery by biting into it -- obviously not a safe act, nor a particularly repair-oriented one.

Apple has responded to the right-to-repair issue, citing customer safety and environmental sustainability as reasons to dissuade customers from repairing their devices outside of an Apple authorized service provider.

"We want to make sure our customers always have confidence their products will be repaired safely and correctly, and in a way that supports recycling," said an Apple spokesperson in a statement, according to Axios. "We are continually growing our network of certified technicians and most recently announced that any Best Buy store in the U.S. is now an authorized service provider."

But, Apple may be slightly changing tack from a previous hard-line stance on the matter. In March, Apple quietly launched the new "Apple Genuine Parts Repair" program, which puts Apple service materials in the hands of some companies with lighter restrictions than than before. Access to repair materials is a key request of right to repair advocates.

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 19
    spice-boyspice-boy Posts: 968member
    Apple is using scare tactics to control a very lucrative repair business. Okay Apple devotees please keep the insult short....
    bigtdskestralavon b7chemengin1muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 2 of 19
    spice-boy said:
    Apple is using scare tactics to control a very lucrative repair business. Okay Apple devotees please keep the insult short....
    So you own no Apple stock, right?
  • Reply 3 of 19
    seanismorrisseanismorris Posts: 1,084member
    spice-boy said:
    Apple is using scare tactics to control a very lucrative repair business. Okay Apple devotees please keep the insult short....
    The key word is “control”.

    Apple wants to control quality and safety.  Safety is self explanatory, but quality is about resell value which is huge for Apple’s brand.

    If it was just about the dollars to repair an Apple device, Apple wouldn’t have authorized Best Buy for service and repairs.  Best Buy has about 4x as many stores in the USA vs Apple.

    Lets face it... the easy days of repairing devices is over.  This isn’t just Apple, but all the major electronics companies...everything is now glued or soldered on.  Consumers have benefited from increased durability and smaller devices.  Smallish repair shops can’t maintain high quality in this new environment.  It’s not just quality components (OEM) being available, but diagnostics equipment, etc.

    FYI: I’ve been an IT Technician/Network Administrator/Consultant/Manager.

    I enjoy doing upgrades and repair myself, but with most mobile devices, it’s no longer worth it.

    The “discussion” is over... but no one has told the politicians.
    viclauyycmwhiteurahara
  • Reply 4 of 19
    macplusplusmacplusplus Posts: 1,907member
    No law in any jurisdiction can force a company to sell its products in a disassembled form, that would destroy the free market and not possible even in China. Right to repair or right to service? Choose one you cannot have both.
  • Reply 5 of 19
    No law in any jurisdiction can force a company to sell its products in a disassembled form, that would destroy the free market and not possible even in China. Right to repair or right to service? Choose one you cannot have both.


    ...
    Lets face it... the easy days of repairing devices is over.  This isn’t just Apple, but all the major electronics companies...everything is now glued or soldered on.  Consumers have benefited from increased durability and smaller devices.  Smallish repair shops can’t maintain high quality in this new environment.  It’s not just quality components (OEM) being available, but diagnostics equipment, etc.

    ...
    The “discussion” is over... but no one has told the politicians.
    Cradle to grave legislation is very likely to arrive in the next several years, especially if the GOP loses the Senate.

    As we are seeing w/ the banning of single use plastics, this tenor of legislation will move up the food chain.

    If a manufacturer is responsible for the full life cycle of its products, you can bet your bottom dollar that disassemblability will be considered in future product designs.

    The days of throw away glued together products are numbered, and that cannot come soon enough.
    edited August 7 bcodemuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 6 of 19
    JinTechJinTech Posts: 392member
    spice-boy said:
    Apple is using scare tactics to control a very lucrative repair business. Okay Apple devotees please keep the insult short....
    I bought an iPad Pro 12.9" Second Generation with 512GBs of storage, a couple weeks after it came out. This last Sunday I was using it and the left hand side started to discolor a little bit, then the right hand side and then within twenty minutes the entire screen went completely black. I noticed on Apple's website that it would cost $599 to get a new screen. I had an appointment at the Genius Bar on Monday thinking they could diagnose the situation a little further and do some tests other than what I had already done, a hard reset. Maybe it was a loose display cable?

    Monday, comes along and I'm at the Apple Store. The Genius did the same thing I did and said there was nothing else they could do "have you seen the new iPads? They are really incredible and you should just get one of the new iPads" I express to her how I purchased this one right when it came out and how I paid a lot for it with the extra storage. "That's the problem with the iPads and the screen" they didn't really finish their sentence "I read on Apple's website that I could get a new screen for $599" I finally said. They had to look into it on their side "Well yeah you could get a new screen and we could fix it or while we don't recommend it you could go to an Apple Authorized dealer to try to get it fixed but the screen might end up working for a year before it fails again. I would really recommend just getting one of the new iPads." That was that.

    I left feeling incredibly displeased, and honestly a little angry. I spent over a thousand dollars on an Apple product that was less than two years old and here I was being told to just buy a new one? Is this really the new norm from Apple? I remember when I worked at an Apple Store the Genius would actually do some tests to see exactly what could be wrong with it, rather than just a simple hard reset which anyone could do. I take very good care of my Apple products because I know they are so expensive (and I don't have a disposable income) so for the the display just to die seems like a freak accident that they should look into a little further.
    spice-boy
  • Reply 7 of 19
    macplusplusmacplusplus Posts: 1,907member
    JinTech said:
    spice-boy said:
    Apple is using scare tactics to control a very lucrative repair business. Okay Apple devotees please keep the insult short....
    I bought an iPad Pro 12.9" Second Generation with 512GBs of storage, a couple weeks after it came out. This last Sunday I was using it and the left hand side started to discolor a little bit, then the right hand side and then within twenty minutes the entire screen went completely black. I noticed on Apple's website that it would cost $599 to get a new screen. I had an appointment at the Genius Bar on Monday thinking they could diagnose the situation a little further and do some tests other than what I had already done, a hard reset. Maybe it was a loose display cable?

    Monday, comes along and I'm at the Apple Store. The Genius did the same thing I did and said there was nothing else they could do "have you seen the new iPads? They are really incredible and you should just get one of the new iPads" I express to her how I purchased this one right when it came out and how I paid a lot for it with the extra storage. "That's the problem with the iPads and the screen" they didn't really finish their sentence "I read on Apple's website that I could get a new screen for $599" I finally said. They had to look into it on their side "Well yeah you could get a new screen and we could fix it or while we don't recommend it you could go to an Apple Authorized dealer to try to get it fixed but the screen might end up working for a year before it fails again. I would really recommend just getting one of the new iPads." That was that.

    I left feeling incredibly displeased, and honestly a little angry. I spent over a thousand dollars on an Apple product that was less than two years old and here I was being told to just buy a new one? Is this really the new norm from Apple? I remember when I worked at an Apple Store the Genius would actually do some tests to see exactly what could be wrong with it, rather than just a simple hard reset which anyone could do. I take very good care of my Apple products because I know they are so expensive (and I don't have a disposable income) so for the the display just to die seems like a freak accident that they should look into a little further.
    First let me state that we’re on the same side, I have been told the exact same thing at the Apple Store for an iPad Mini 2 when its Home button failed (then I have dropped it and the Home button worked again without any other damage, FWIW). If I remember correctly, the price they offered to me was a trade-in price, not the list price, you may want to check this again. Before Apple I had talked to an authorized service center I trusted, they'd told me that they were not repairing iPad Minis, then I have gone to Apple as a last resort. Recently I have passed the still functioning iPad Mini to a family member and purchased an iPad Air 3. 

    I think we cannot blame Apple for warning the customer in advance about subsequent failures. You can make it repaired for $600 and use it for one year before it fails again, this is what the store staff told you. Or you can buy a new one by paying just the difference (since you already consent to pay $600 for repair). Apple doesn’t prevent your right to service in this incident, they just notify you about the options.

    I feel like hearing shoutings like “then why Apple doesn't upgrade to a new model at the repair cost, i.e $600?”. Err, Apple is not that stupid, then crowds would drop their iPads and raid Apple stores to get a brand new model at the repair cost !  There are more civilized ways to upgrade a product.

    Edit: some repairs may last longer than previewed but only experienced service personnel can inform you about the longevity of a repair. I suggest to get a second, third, fourth opinion by contacting authorized and trained official Apple service centers (not Angela-formatted Apple store staff, independent businesses).
    edited August 7 muthuk_vanalingamurahara
  • Reply 8 of 19
    mac_dogmac_dog Posts: 703member
    spice-boy said:
     quality is about resell value which is huge for Apple’s brand.

    Quality is also about end to end user experience and brand reputation. In this day and age, anyone can go on social media and stir up a shit-storm, then the “Apple” brand starts losing value. I don’t own stock. Wish I did. But this sort of mentality is what will make Apple just another sub-par American company—just like the rest of the country. 
  • Reply 9 of 19
    viclauyycviclauyyc Posts: 367member
    JinTech said:
    spice-boy said:
    Apple is using scare tactics to control a very lucrative repair business. Okay Apple devotees please keep the insult short....
    I bought an iPad Pro 12.9" Second Generation with 512GBs of storage, a couple weeks after it came out. This last Sunday I was using it and the left hand side started to discolor a little bit, then the right hand side and then within twenty minutes the entire screen went completely black. I noticed on Apple's website that it would cost $599 to get a new screen. I had an appointment at the Genius Bar on Monday thinking they could diagnose the situation a little further and do some tests other than what I had already done, a hard reset. Maybe it was a loose display cable?

    Monday, comes along and I'm at the Apple Store. The Genius did the same thing I did and said there was nothing else they could do "have you seen the new iPads? They are really incredible and you should just get one of the new iPads" I express to her how I purchased this one right when it came out and how I paid a lot for it with the extra storage. "That's the problem with the iPads and the screen" they didn't really finish their sentence "I read on Apple's website that I could get a new screen for $599" I finally said. They had to look into it on their side "Well yeah you could get a new screen and we could fix it or while we don't recommend it you could go to an Apple Authorized dealer to try to get it fixed but the screen might end up working for a year before it fails again. I would really recommend just getting one of the new iPads." That was that.

    I left feeling incredibly displeased, and honestly a little angry. I spent over a thousand dollars on an Apple product that was less than two years old and here I was being told to just buy a new one? Is this really the new norm from Apple? I remember when I worked at an Apple Store the Genius would actually do some tests to see exactly what could be wrong with it, rather than just a simple hard reset which anyone could do. I take very good care of my Apple products because I know they are so expensive (and I don't have a disposable income) so for the the display just to die seems like a freak accident that they should look into a little further.
    I suggested you go to your local Chinatown to ask about repair options. They might be able to do replace your screen for $200, aftermarket of cause. Also, don’t forget to backup everything and wipe your iPad before repair.

    or just check if you can find a new/used screen cheap on eBay.
  • Reply 10 of 19
    spice-boyspice-boy Posts: 968member
    spice-boy said:
    Apple is using scare tactics to control a very lucrative repair business. Okay Apple devotees please keep the insult short....
    So you own no Apple stock, right?
    I own no stocks Apple or any other company, what was your point?
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 11 of 19
    uraharaurahara Posts: 283member
    spice-boy said:
    Apple is using scare tactics to control a very lucrative repair business. Okay Apple devotees please keep the insult short....
    Scare tactics...
    What was that scared you?


  • Reply 12 of 19
    uraharaurahara Posts: 283member
    double post
    edited August 8
  • Reply 13 of 19
    uraharaurahara Posts: 283member
    double post


    edited August 8
  • Reply 14 of 19
    uraharaurahara Posts: 283member
    No law in any jurisdiction can force a company to sell its products in a disassembled form, that would destroy the free market and not possible even in China. Right to repair or right to service? Choose one you cannot have both.


    ...
    Lets face it... the easy days of repairing devices is over.  This isn’t just Apple, but all the major electronics companies...everything is now glued or soldered on.  Consumers have benefited from increased durability and smaller devices.  Smallish repair shops can’t maintain high quality in this new environment.  It’s not just quality components (OEM) being available, but diagnostics equipment, etc.

    ...
    The “discussion” is over... but no one has told the politicians.
    Cradle to grave legislation is very likely to arrive in the next several years, especially if the GOP loses the Senate.

    As we are seeing w/ the banning of single use plastics, this tenor of legislation will move up the food chain.

    If a manufacturer is responsible for the full life cycle of its products, you can bet your bottom dollar that disassemblability will be considered in future product designs.

    The days of throw away glued together products are numbered, and that cannot come soon enough.
    Get for yourself a phone from 20 years ago. The electronics is not packed that compactely.
    You get what you want. 
    Enjoy my free advice. 
  • Reply 15 of 19
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 5,137member
    Ultimately, the long term answer to this is simple:   If Apple wants to protect its reputation for reliability and quality by ensuring that repairs and upgrades are all performed by authorized repairs centers using authorized parts, IT NEEDS TO SAY SO UP FRONT -- L O U D L Y and   C L E A R L Y  !

    It's very simple:  Before somebody buys an Apple Product they need to be informed that they need to return to an authorized repair center if it needs repairs -- or, a laundry list of bad things can happen -- including a voided warranty and unpredictable behavior.

    For years they've been playing a passive-aggressive game of suggesting people need to use their authorized centers, but not enforcing it.   So, people assume that an Apple product is not different than any other product and, when it comes time for a repair of upgrade, they seek the cheapest solution.  It is up to Apple to insure that they know that there can be consequences to that action.

    Conversely, Apple maybe needs to open up its own authorized centers a bit:   For myself, I am thinking of upgrading the SSD in my MacBook Air, but I know that I cannot ask Apple to do that for me -- I either have to do it myself or find a repair center that will.
  • Reply 16 of 19
    maestro64maestro64 Posts: 4,658member
    No law in any jurisdiction can force a company to sell its products in a disassembled form, that would destroy the free market and not possible even in China. Right to repair or right to service? Choose one you cannot have both.


    ...
    Lets face it... the easy days of repairing devices is over.  This isn’t just Apple, but all the major electronics companies...everything is now glued or soldered on.  Consumers have benefited from increased durability and smaller devices.  Smallish repair shops can’t maintain high quality in this new environment.  It’s not just quality components (OEM) being available, but diagnostics equipment, etc.

    ...
    The “discussion” is over... but no one has told the politicians.
    Cradle to grave legislation is very likely to arrive in the next several years, especially if the GOP loses the Senate.

    As we are seeing w/ the banning of single use plastics, this tenor of legislation will move up the food chain.

    If a manufacturer is responsible for the full life cycle of its products, you can bet your bottom dollar that disassemblability will be considered in future product designs.

    The days of throw away glued together products are numbered, and that cannot come soon enough.
    I know this is flippen remark. You can always go live in the woods and live off the land then you can have TCO solution on how you live, you can raise your own food and do have to worry about how it go to your plate and so on. There are lots of people in the US living off the gird and do not relay on any modern convinces, it not as easy as you think and most people are too lazy to it.

    Most things today can be reused and recycled. The big lie is the fact we all have been "recycling" for 30 yrs and most of what gets recycled never got recycled as everyone thought it would. Much of it was burned to generate electricity or other power. what was not burn shipped to China which they attempted to recycled, but much of it was buried or dumped into the sea (where do you think the island of plastic came from it was not American though their straws overboard). The Reason recycling did not work, is because consumers were unwilling to do what is necessary to properly recycle like not mixing plastic types or plastic which are not easily recycle, you know the cap on water bottle can not be recycled. The only thing in the US which is consistently recycle is steel from Cars and Appliances. Most AL is recycled but is mostly was shipped to China not recycled in the US.

    To this point you can not legislate behavior nor can you legislate to fix stupid. Every person has to decide to not be part of the throw away society there are lots of things people can do themselves to lower their impact. At our house our garage only go to curb once every 3 weeks, we did recycle as much as we can, but now I know most items never get recycled we looking at how to reduce recycling except for steel and AL. We also try to reuse, but people today do not want peoples old stuff. We try to give away furniture and unless it perfect no one wants it. The problem are not simple and you can not expect government to fix it, people have to decide they want it.
    edited August 8
  • Reply 17 of 19
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 5,137member
    maestro64 said:
    No law in any jurisdiction can force a company to sell its products in a disassembled form, that would destroy the free market and not possible even in China. Right to repair or right to service? Choose one you cannot have both.


    ...
    Lets face it... the easy days of repairing devices is over.  This isn’t just Apple, but all the major electronics companies...everything is now glued or soldered on.  Consumers have benefited from increased durability and smaller devices.  Smallish repair shops can’t maintain high quality in this new environment.  It’s not just quality components (OEM) being available, but diagnostics equipment, etc.

    ...
    The “discussion” is over... but no one has told the politicians.
    Cradle to grave legislation is very likely to arrive in the next several years, especially if the GOP loses the Senate.

    As we are seeing w/ the banning of single use plastics, this tenor of legislation will move up the food chain.

    If a manufacturer is responsible for the full life cycle of its products, you can bet your bottom dollar that disassemblability will be considered in future product designs.

    The days of throw away glued together products are numbered, and that cannot come soon enough.
    I know this is flippen remark. You can always go live in the woods and live off the land then you can have TCO solution on how you live, you can raise your own food and do have to worry about how it go to your plate and so on. There are lots of people in the US living off the gird and do not relay on any modern convinces, it not as easy as you think and most people are too lazy to it.

    Most things today can be reused and recycled. The big lie is the fact we all have been "recycling" for 30 yrs and most of what gets recycled never got recycled as everyone thought it would. Much of it was burned to generate electricity or other power. what was not burn shipped to China which they attempted to recycled, but much of it was buried or dumped into the sea (where do you think the island of plastic came from it was not American though their straws overboard). The Reason recycling did not work, is because consumers were unwilling to do what is necessary to properly recycle like not mixing plastic types or plastic which are not easily recycle, you know the cap on water bottle can not be recycled. The only thing in the US which is consistently recycle is steel from Cars and Appliances. Most AL is recycled but is mostly was shipped to China not recycled in the US.

    To this point you can not legislate behavior nor can you legislate to fix stupid. Every person has to decide to not be part of the throw away society there are lots of things people can do themselves to lower their impact. At our house our garage only go to curb once every 3 weeks, we did recycle as much as we can, but now I know most items never get recycled we looking at how to reduce recycling except for steel and AL. We also try to reuse, but people today do not want peoples old stuff. We try to give away furniture and unless it perfect no one wants it. The problem are not simple and you can not expect government to fix it, people have to decide they want it.
    generally, I generate 1 bag every second week.   Most of my neighbors have 4-5 times that much EVERY week.   The difference is lifestyle and diet -- lettuce needs no packaging, a bag of carrots has just a small simple bag and 4# bag of lentils which last 1-2 months has just a simple little bag.  

    I remember when milk bottles and soft drink bottles were returnable.  I also remember when "things" got fixed rather than replaced.
    JinTech
  • Reply 18 of 19
    JinTechJinTech Posts: 392member
    maestro64 said:
    No law in any jurisdiction can force a company to sell its products in a disassembled form, that would destroy the free market and not possible even in China. Right to repair or right to service? Choose one you cannot have both.


    ...
    Lets face it... the easy days of repairing devices is over.  This isn’t just Apple, but all the major electronics companies...everything is now glued or soldered on.  Consumers have benefited from increased durability and smaller devices.  Smallish repair shops can’t maintain high quality in this new environment.  It’s not just quality components (OEM) being available, but diagnostics equipment, etc.

    ...
    The “discussion” is over... but no one has told the politicians.
    Cradle to grave legislation is very likely to arrive in the next several years, especially if the GOP loses the Senate.

    As we are seeing w/ the banning of single use plastics, this tenor of legislation will move up the food chain.

    If a manufacturer is responsible for the full life cycle of its products, you can bet your bottom dollar that disassemblability will be considered in future product designs.

    The days of throw away glued together products are numbered, and that cannot come soon enough.
    I know this is flippen remark. You can always go live in the woods and live off the land then you can have TCO solution on how you live, you can raise your own food and do have to worry about how it go to your plate and so on. There are lots of people in the US living off the gird and do not relay on any modern convinces, it not as easy as you think and most people are too lazy to it.

    Most things today can be reused and recycled. The big lie is the fact we all have been "recycling" for 30 yrs and most of what gets recycled never got recycled as everyone thought it would. Much of it was burned to generate electricity or other power. what was not burn shipped to China which they attempted to recycled, but much of it was buried or dumped into the sea (where do you think the island of plastic came from it was not American though their straws overboard). The Reason recycling did not work, is because consumers were unwilling to do what is necessary to properly recycle like not mixing plastic types or plastic which are not easily recycle, you know the cap on water bottle can not be recycled. The only thing in the US which is consistently recycle is steel from Cars and Appliances. Most AL is recycled but is mostly was shipped to China not recycled in the US.

    To this point you can not legislate behavior nor can you legislate to fix stupid. Every person has to decide to not be part of the throw away society there are lots of things people can do themselves to lower their impact. At our house our garage only go to curb once every 3 weeks, we did recycle as much as we can, but now I know most items never get recycled we looking at how to reduce recycling except for steel and AL. We also try to reuse, but people today do not want peoples old stuff. We try to give away furniture and unless it perfect no one wants it. The problem are not simple and you can not expect government to fix it, people have to decide they want it.
    generally, I generate 1 bag every second week.   Most of my neighbors have 4-5 times that much EVERY week.   The difference is lifestyle and diet -- lettuce needs no packaging, a bag of carrots has just a small simple bag and 4# bag of lentils which last 1-2 months has just a simple little bag.  

    I remember when milk bottles and soft drink bottles were returnable.  I also remember when "things" got fixed rather than replaced.
    Even beer bottles back in the day were returnable.
    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 19 of 19
    spice-boy said:
    Apple is using scare tactics to control a very lucrative repair business. Okay Apple devotees please keep the insult short....
    The key word is “control”.

    -snip- Lets face it... the easy days of repairing devices is over.  This isn’t just Apple, but all the major electronics companies...everything is now glued or soldered on.   -snip- I enjoy doing upgrades and repair myself, but with most mobile devices, it’s no longer worth it.

    The “discussion” is over... but no one has told the politicians.
    You could be looking into the wrong end of the sewer pipe. Are the easy days of repair over because as you say, everything is glued or soldered together, or is everything glued and soldered together to make the easy days of repair over?
Sign In or Register to comment.