'iPhone 11' camera & new 'A13' chip element will provide far better photography

Posted:
in iPhone edited August 22
A new "iPhone 11" rumor roundup has been posted mostly repeating what has been said before -- but Bloomberg's Mark Gurman is predicting big improvements from the triple lens camera for photographers and videographers.

An early render of the triple camera setup of the 2019 iPhones, via OnLeaks and CashKaro
An early render of the triple camera setup of the 2019 iPhones, via OnLeaks and CashKaro


Bloomberg's Mark Gurman has published his latest predictions for Apple's fall event that we expect is on September 10. Much of what Gurman has summarized on Thursday morning has been long-rumored and predicted by others well prior to Thursdays posting. However, a few new details are presented.

"iPhone 11"

While the Bloomberg piece discusses the three-lens camera system on the back of the phone, the report suggests there is new software to automatically correct a combined photo from the lenses, and improvement in low-light environments.

The three-lens system is also predicted to have "significantly upgraded video recording capabilities. Gurman suggests that there is a new feature that allows live retouching, and effect insertion as the video is being recorded, instead of the user applying the effects after the video is shot.

Apple's "A13" processor is said to have a new element called the "AMX" or "matrix" internally. This new component is predicted to be some form of math co-processor, postulated to help with augmented reality applications and other computer vision tasks.

Gurman also predicts better water resistance and updated OLED screens without 3d Touch and relying on Haptic Touch instead. The report also reiterates rumors of a second back camera on the iPhone XR replacement, "Pro" branding, and a return to a matte finish on some models.

iPad Pro and entry-level iPad

There isn't a design change expected for an iPad Pro. However, Thursday's report expects similar upgrades to the camera and processor to what the iPhone is expected to have.

On the other hand, the entry-level iPad is expected to grow to 10.2 inches. This is not the first time that this has been suggested, however.

The Mac, and other products

Gurman's report brings nothing new to the table for the rest of the product lineup. The Bloomberg report reminds readers that the Mac Pro is coming, and a 16-inch MacBook Pro is likely, but doesn't discuss the rest of the product lineup at all. Also not discussed is when the new MacBook Pro will be announced, or when the Mac Pro will start to ship to users.

Big changes to the Apple Watch lineup aren't predicted in the report, with him reiterating the previous discovery of ceramic and titanium models to the iPhone. Gurman expects a "muted" discussion at Apple's fall event, focusing mostly on watchOS 6.

Also repeated is the likelihood that Apple is working on new AirPods and a less expensive HomePod. Like most of the other rumors surrounding the AirPods and HomePod refresh, Gurman predicts that these will ship in 2020.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 28
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 5,147member
    As their products mature, Apple really has to get away from this annual extravaganza:   Expectations for it build throughout the year and, at the end, people and media are always dissapointed -- and the stock drops.

    I see Apple increasingly going to more impromptu roll-outs throughout the year.   I suspect that a 5G phone somewhere in the first half of 2020 will be one of those.
    muthuk_vanalingamchemengin1
  • Reply 2 of 28
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 4,883administrator
    As their products mature, Apple really has to get away from this annual extravaganza:   Expectations for it build throughout the year and, at the end, people and media are always dissapointed -- and the stock drops.

    I see Apple increasingly going to more impromptu roll-outs throughout the year.   I suspect that a 5G phone somewhere in the first half of 2020 will be one of those.
    This year's MacBook Pro refresh was PR. And you're right, I see more of that going forward as well.
    muthuk_vanalingamGaby
  • Reply 3 of 28
    knowitallknowitall Posts: 1,451member
    An option to turn off all electronic photo meddling would be nice.
    This is to remove the “pro midget golf” effect. (I once ‘played’ nearby a few pro midget golf players who managed to hit incredible curved effect shots almost hitting the target, while I played almost as good but missing the targets by a wide margin most of the time.)
  • Reply 4 of 28
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,950member
    As their products mature, Apple really has to get away from this annual extravaganza:   Expectations for it build throughout the year and, at the end, people and media are always dissapointed -- and the stock drops.

    I see Apple increasingly going to more impromptu roll-outs throughout the year.   I suspect that a 5G phone somewhere in the first half of 2020 will be one of those.
    Highly unlikely that Apple would move away from a September release for any 2020 iPhone even if they could incorporate 5G earlier. There is still a substantial feature and OS update that is best taken after WWDC, giving time for developers to introduce updated and new Apps. Hence, why September has become the standard.
    edited August 22 razorpitlolliverwatto_cobra
  • Reply 5 of 28
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,950member
    knowitall said:
    An option to turn off all electronic photo meddling would be nice.
    This is to remove the “pro midget golf” effect. (I once ‘played’ nearby a few pro midget golf players who managed to hit incredible curved effect shots almost hitting the target, while I played almost as good but missing the targets by a wide margin most of the time.)
    There are already photo apps that give full manual control.
    StrangeDayslolliverwatto_cobra
  • Reply 6 of 28
    tmay said:
    knowitall said:
    An option to turn off all electronic photo meddling would be nice.
    This is to remove the “pro midget golf” effect. (I once ‘played’ nearby a few pro midget golf players who managed to hit incredible curved effect shots almost hitting the target, while I played almost as good but missing the targets by a wide margin most of the time.)
    There are already photo apps that give full manual control.

    There's actually one called...wait for it... Manual!

    Manual – RAW Camera by Will Global
    https://apps.apple.com/be/app/manual-raw-camera/id917146276
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 7 of 28
    tmay said:
    As their products mature, Apple really has to get away from this annual extravaganza:   Expectations for it build throughout the year and, at the end, people and media are always dissapointed -- and the stock drops.

    I see Apple increasingly going to more impromptu roll-outs throughout the year.   I suspect that a 5G phone somewhere in the first half of 2020 will be one of those.
    Highly unlikely that Apple would move away from a September release for any 2020 iPhone even if they could incorporate 5G earlier. There is still a substantial feature and OS update that is best taken after WWDC, giving time for developers to introduce updated and new Apps. Hence, why September has become the standard.
    You both can be true. Rumored smaller new iPhone can appear in spring. But I doubt it would have 5G. And it may come as fourth phone in September 2020 as well. We can just wait and pray :-).
    GeorgeBMacwatto_cobra
  • Reply 8 of 28
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 4,205member
    Yes. I'm also for breaking out of the single annual iPhone refresh.

    Apple moved away from the Macworld Expos to get away from the 'conditioning' of the events and having to deliver something.

    If your blowout season is Christmas then fine, but the show doesn't have to stop there. Marketing a single series for a full 12 months is not easy. Marketing is all about market stimulation and people get bored quickly. A spring or MWC launch would put them back on the radar as other brands soak up the limelight and give marketing something to bite on. It could be an SE style phone (or even a watch) or something more daring such as a true 'new' mid range phone (as opposed to shifting 'last year's phones').

    As for 5G, I would also release it when available as an 'Edition' phone instead of waiting until the end of 2020. Precisely due to marketing. This Christmas the 5G carriers will go all out to convince us that you need 5G, no matter what anyone says.


    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 9 of 28
    MplsPMplsP Posts: 1,673member
    avon b7 said:
    As for 5G, I would also release it when available as an 'Edition' phone instead of waiting until the end of 2020. Precisely due to marketing. This Christmas the 5G carriers will go all out to convince us that you need 5G, no matter what anyone says.


    just call it the 11G!

    As their products mature, Apple really has to get away from this annual extravaganza:   Expectations for it build throughout the year and, at the end, people and media are always dissapointed -- and the stock drops.

    I see Apple increasingly going to more impromptu roll-outs throughout the year.   I suspect that a 5G phone somewhere in the first half of 2020 will be one of those.
    Agree. The other thing that is getting almost comical is watching Phill Schiller introduce a trivial improvement ("and now, for the first time, we have added tint control on photos!" then pause, waiting for the applause. After a couple seconds, the crowd then realizes they're supposed to applaud and obligingly does so. Nothing like the spontaneous, enthusiastic and virtually non-stop applause when Jobs introduced the original iPhone. 
    muthuk_vanalingamGeorgeBMac
  • Reply 10 of 28
    Pleeeeeease improve low light photography. Something on par with the Pixel's Nightsight. If you used it, you know what you're missing out on.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 11 of 28
    here I thought the bump was ugly as hell, then they gave us the notch. now they are taking it to the next level; the hideous looking multi-cam. Just watching apple from the side lines these days, my last remaining apple product is my SE. Good thing apple does not need my annual 3k spend.

    I can't see a SE sized phone coming, sad days ahead when it dies. there seem to be no more small phones in the market.
    edited August 22 cornchipchemengin1
  • Reply 12 of 28
    tmay said:
    knowitall said:
    An option to turn off all electronic photo meddling would be nice.
    This is to remove the “pro midget golf” effect. (I once ‘played’ nearby a few pro midget golf players who managed to hit incredible curved effect shots almost hitting the target, while I played almost as good but missing the targets by a wide margin most of the time.)
    There are already photo apps that give full manual control.

    There's actually one called...wait for it... Manual!

    Manual – RAW Camera by Will Global
    https://apps.apple.com/be/app/manual-raw-camera/id917146276
    Halide is terrific too.
    tmayretrogustowatto_cobra
  • Reply 13 of 28
    davendaven Posts: 543member
    I can see how having dedicated silicon for matrix operations will benefit photography and video production. Multiple cameras give you different samples of points in space. If two cameras read the same point differently you have to have to choose which sample is correct, average the two data values, or have some algorithm determining some intermediate value for that point. For three cameras, if two of the cameras agree, the true value is likely the value the two cameras agreed on. However, when you have multiple cameras you also have different view points and have to calculate how the points correlate. When you do that you use matrices with sine and cosine values and almost all the time you don't have a direct correlation. A point in one camera is almost always corresponds to a point between other pixel points in the second camera so you have to sample the surrounding points and calculate what the value of the corresponding point in the second image would be if it were sampled. It can get computationally expensive to do that and having dedicated silicon may make it practical. Having three cameras adds to the complexity but also adds to the amount of data you have to make sure you have the value of the pixel correct.

    It really is amazing how far digital photography has come in twenty years.
    tmayStrangeDayscornchipwatto_cobra
  • Reply 14 of 28
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,950member
    daven said:
    I can see how having dedicated silicon for matrix operations will benefit photography and video production. Multiple cameras give you different samples of points in space. If two cameras read the same point differently you have to have to choose which sample is correct, average the two data values, or have some algorithm determining some intermediate value for that point. For three cameras, if two of the cameras agree, the true value is likely the value the two cameras agreed on. However, when you have multiple cameras you also have different view points and have to calculate how the points correlate. When you do that you use matrices with sine and cosine values and almost all the time you don't have a direct correlation. A point in one camera is almost always corresponds to a point between other pixel points in the second camera so you have to sample the surrounding points and calculate what the value of the corresponding point in the second image would be if it were sampled. It can get computationally expensive to do that and having dedicated silicon may make it practical. Having three cameras adds to the complexity but also adds to the amount of data you have to make sure you have the value of the pixel correct.

    It really is amazing how far digital photography has come in twenty years.
    It might be the case that Apple builds an internal model of the three lens configuration, specific to an individual iPhone, processes it with machine learning, and that becomes the basis of subsequent calculation, until an optimization level is reached, perhaps giving the user realtime response.

    But, yeah, it is amazing.
    edited August 22 davenwatto_cobra
  • Reply 15 of 28
    Expectations for it build throughout the year and, at the end, people and media are always dissapointed -- and the stock drops.
    The "disappointment" is always contrived though. 
    tmaythtStrangeDaysllamalolliverwatto_cobra
  • Reply 16 of 28
    macguimacgui Posts: 1,469member
    The initial camera bump didn't bother me a bit. The notch, even less so. I don't understand all the stupid handwringing and whining. The three camera window is unattractive though. But I imagine there's not elegant way to do two lenses, yet.

    I foresee phones shipping the size of a sandwich-sized slice of bread, only thinner. 'Behold– the SuperMax!' And for the SE– nothing.
    cornchipwatto_cobra
  • Reply 17 of 28
    thttht Posts: 3,252member
    Finally the year for me to get a new phone. Excited to retire my 6S Plus for 2019 model.

    The big rumored phone features for me are:
    1. Matte glass and more shatter resistant glass (robustness is one the last high value features to be implemented)
    2. A13. Sounds like there will be a new SIMD engine. Also hope for 6 to 8 GB RAM.
    3. More robust Face ID
    4. Camera features don’t drive my purchases, but I’ll take them if I can get them

    Also really excited for the iPad Pro 12.9. Thinking of replacing my 2 year old iPad Pro 10.5 with it.


    canukstormwatto_cobra
  • Reply 18 of 28
    davendaven Posts: 543member
    tmay said:
    daven said:
    I can see how having dedicated silicon for matrix operations will benefit photography and video production. Multiple cameras give you different samples of points in space. If two cameras read the same point differently you have to have to choose which sample is correct, average the two data values, or have some algorithm determining some intermediate value for that point. For three cameras, if two of the cameras agree, the true value is likely the value the two cameras agreed on. However, when you have multiple cameras you also have different view points and have to calculate how the points correlate. When you do that you use matrices with sine and cosine values and almost all the time you don't have a direct correlation. A point in one camera is almost always corresponds to a point between other pixel points in the second camera so you have to sample the surrounding points and calculate what the value of the corresponding point in the second image would be if it were sampled. It can get computationally expensive to do that and having dedicated silicon may make it practical. Having three cameras adds to the complexity but also adds to the amount of data you have to make sure you have the value of the pixel correct.

    It really is amazing how far digital photography has come in twenty years.
    It might be the case that Apple builds an internal model of the three lens configuration, specific to an individual iPhone, processes it with machine learning, and that becomes the basis of subsequent calculation, until an optimization level is reached, perhaps giving the user realtime response.

    But, yeah, it is amazing.
    Yes. The phone can start out with a basic general calibration and fine tune it with machine learning to get it even better. Because of manufacturing variations (the lenses will not be mounted with the same pixel precision between any two cameras so there will always be differences) and because the world is 3d you will have differences in close photos. Right now for photographs, many phones take multiple photos often at slightly different exposures, align them (they should be aligned because of camera shake) and average the pixels. That works ok for still photos but if you have a fast moving subject or are making a video, that isn't a great technique. Now consider three simultaneous photos... you can do pixel averaging for videos along with the standard camera manufacturer calibration. Of course I'm speculating on all of this. I have no inside information. From what I understand, the camera setup also allows for wider field of view photos so you can fix mis-framed photos.

    That said, I upgraded my iPhone 5s with an Xs Max so I won't be buying a new phone for a while.
    edited August 22 watto_cobra
  • Reply 19 of 28
    here I thought the bump was ugly as hell, then they gave us the notch. now they are taking it to the next level; the hideous looking multi-cam. Just watching apple from the side lines these days, my last remaining apple product is my SE. Good thing apple does not need my annual 3k spend.

    I can't see a SE sized phone coming, sad days ahead when it dies. there seem to be no more small phones in the market.
    Life is suffering.
    fastasleepwatto_cobra
  • Reply 20 of 28
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 8,584member
    As their products mature, Apple really has to get away from this annual extravaganza:   Expectations for it build throughout the year and, at the end, people and media are always dissapointed -- and the stock drops.
    Apple doesn't manage to the stock price. Apple manages to the customer, aka delight the customer. And, despite what techie pundits say, they do, which is why the iPhone is so incredibly popular. 
    coolfactorlolliverwatto_cobra
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