France will not apply digital tax on Apple & others while trade discussions continue

Posted:
in General Discussion edited January 2020
France's tax aimed at internet multinational companies like Apple, Amazon, Google, and Apple, has been postponed as U.S. President Donald Trump and French President Emmanuel Macron work together to avoid a rise in tariffs.

Trump and Macron in 2018 | Image Credit: Shealah Craighead
Trump and Macron in 2018 | Image Credit: Shealah Craighead


Trump and Macron have forged a temporary truce and will postpone a tariff war until the end of 2020. Paris has agreed to suspend down payments on this year's digital tax provided that Washington would negotiate a solution, rather than threatening imposing tariffs on France.

Originally proposed in December of 2018, the so-called GAFA - Google, Apple, Facebook, and Amazon - tax, had been given a stamp of approval by the French senate in July of 2019. The tax would have been applied retroactively.

Under the measure, the 3% sales tax would be applied to sales generated in France by major multinational firms. France has pulled back on demanding the retroactive down payments temporarily, in an effort to prevent the U.S. from applying tariffs to French-made goods.

"What we're proposing is to give ourselves time and to show our goodwill, to postpone the remaining payments to December," a French Finance Ministry source said, according to Reuters.

Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire and U.S. Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin are due to negotiate the details in Davos, Switzerland, on Wednesday, the source added.

France has attempted to use the tax to reacquire taxes from revenue that goes through various processes by firms to reduce their outlay, such as the "Double Irish" performed by Apple. The European Union is working to reform taxes across the continent to minimize such activities, but while individual countries can apply regional laws relatively quickly, a Europe-wide measure will take longer to implement.

Major tech companies have come under fire for shifting funds around the European union to minimize their tax outlay, and in some cases funneling revenue through operations in countries with extremely low tax rates or other arrangements.

The taxes have led to criticism from various organizations, and in the case of Apple in France, led to protests in Apple Stores over the use of loopholes.

A 2016 ruling by the European Commission declared Ireland had to collect billions in back taxes from Apple, after being found to have extended preferential tax treatment to the company.

Apple has since paid the entire 13.1 billion euro ($15.3 billion) balance, as well as 1.2 billion euro in interest, into an escrow account controlled by the Irish government.

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 13
    uraharaurahara Posts: 733member
    We as (French) individuals would have to pay those taxes. Especially for products/services provided by such companies like Apple or Amazon, who focus on providing value to a private person. Why should those companies pay more than French companies?
    This is such a BS.
    lordjohnwhorfincat52watto_cobra
  • Reply 2 of 13
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 10,557member
    urahara said:
    We as (French) individuals would have to pay those taxes. Especially for products/services provided by such companies like Apple or Amazon, who focus on providing value to a private person. Why should those companies pay more than French companies?
    This is such a BS.
    It’s simple, really. The fuel that powers all government engines is money. The more money they aquire, the more power they wield over their subjects.
    edited January 2020 cat52watto_cobra
  • Reply 3 of 13
    Once again, creating a fake crisis, just to provide a fake solution. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 4 of 13
    The E.U. needs to do a little house cleaning here, this only happened because their own internal rules allowed Ireland to act as a rogue state. Apple and others just took advantage of that. This proposed tax is just a band aid that is not going to fix a massive underlying problem, which is that the E.U. can't police its members the way it should. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 5 of 13
    This was an inevitable outcome for Macron's utterly foolish errand. Went back to his corner.

    As an aside, it's really wonderful to see the US government finally using a stick (rather than failed carrots) to deal with such silliness around the world.
    cat52watto_cobra
  • Reply 6 of 13
    mknelsonmknelson Posts: 1,125member
    urahara said:
    We as (French) individuals would have to pay those taxes. Especially for products/services provided by such companies like Apple or Amazon, who focus on providing value to a private person. Why should those companies pay more than French companies?
    This is such a BS.
    The French companies pay various business taxes in France. The multinationals pay 0?

    The concern is companies based outside France that are taking French money from the French economy but not supporting French workers, industry or Government.
  • Reply 7 of 13
    mknelson said:
    urahara said:
    We as (French) individuals would have to pay those taxes. Especially for products/services provided by such companies like Apple or Amazon, who focus on providing value to a private person. Why should those companies pay more than French companies?
    This is such a BS.
    The French companies pay various business taxes in France. The multinationals pay 0?

    The concern is companies based outside France that are taking French money from the French economy but not supporting French workers, industry or Government.
    If France is concerned only (or even primarily) about "....French money from the French economy but not supporting French workers...", then they have a simple way to get it done: they should do a Frexit.

    They can't have it both ways.
    cat52watto_cobra
  • Reply 8 of 13
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 6,093member
    This was an inevitable outcome for Macron's utterly foolish errand. Went back to his corner.

    As an aside, it's really wonderful to see the US government finally using a stick (rather than failed carrots) to deal with such silliness around the world.
    I totally agree with you.  For far too long, countries like France thought they could call the shots without consequence and its nice to see a president - ANY president - stand up to France and frankly, be blunt with them.  France raised the white flag... I just hope the U.S. continues this kind of pressure that if they tax our companies for doing business in France, then expect the same in return.  FINALLY!  Other countries in the EU privately thinking the same thing are now put on notice.  About damn time.
    anantksundaramcat52watto_cobra
  • Reply 9 of 13
    sflocal said:
    This was an inevitable outcome for Macron's utterly foolish errand. Went back to his corner.

    As an aside, it's really wonderful to see the US government finally using a stick (rather than failed carrots) to deal with such silliness around the world.
    I totally agree with you.  For far too long, countries like France thought they could call the shots without consequence and its nice to see a president - ANY president - stand up to France and frankly, be blunt with them.  France raised the white flag... I just hope the U.S. continues this kind of pressure that if they tax our companies for doing business in France, then expect the same in return.  FINALLY!  Other countries in the EU privately thinking the same thing are now put on notice.  About damn time.
    Er, are you talking about WW2? That's absurd. Germany controlled almost all of their bordering neighbor countries, including France, because none of them could stand up to the might of Germany's industrial & military prowess:



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German-occupied_Europe

    At leas there were resistances, including in France.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 10 of 13
    Er, are you talking about WW2? That's absurd. Germany controlled almost all of their bordering neighbor countries, including France, because none of them could stand up to the might of Germany's industrial & military prowess:


    At leas there were resistances, including in France.


    watto_cobra
  • Reply 11 of 13
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,877member
    Er, are you talking about WW2? That's absurd. Germany controlled almost all of their bordering neighbor countries, including France, because none of them could stand up to the might of Germany's industrial & military prowess:


    At leas there were resistances, including in France.

    heh. Re-reading it I think Sflocal meant in the scope of this topic France surrendered, but oh well my free history lesson applies to the general notion that France raises the white flag/are cowards, etc.. It wasn't just France, it was nearly all of Germany's neighbors that were defeated.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 12 of 13
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,667member
    sflocal said:
    This was an inevitable outcome for Macron's utterly foolish errand. Went back to his corner.

    As an aside, it's really wonderful to see the US government finally using a stick (rather than failed carrots) to deal with such silliness around the world.
    I totally agree with you.  For far too long, countries like France thought they could call the shots without consequence and its nice to see a president - ANY president - stand up to France and frankly, be blunt with them.  France raised the white flag... I just hope the U.S. continues this kind of pressure that if they tax our companies for doing business in France, then expect the same in return.  FINALLY!  Other countries in the EU privately thinking the same thing are now put on notice.  About damn time.
    This isn't actually true. France can call all the shots it wants but in line with EU limits. That's a lot of shots though.

    Don't think that Trump's tariffs actually had much to do with anything. The EU would not sit by and let France get bullied. That's one of the trade advantages of being in the EU trading bloc.

    All this is happening in a bigger picture of wider EU commerce with the U.S and China.

    All the pieces are in the air right now and timing is key. That's where France stepped on a turd and now realises that the moment was wrong.

    The EU would love to snatch some Boeing orders from China. Germany doesn't want to lose automobile sales in China which will probably depend on the Huawei situation.

    In the short term, there is a feeling that Trump actually won't be around for much longer anyway and so a wait and see approach makes sense.

    Longer term, the EU needs to weigh up its commercial interests and decide which bloc offers the best business. As both the EU and China have stated their own goals to become non-dependent on U.S technology (and both have accelerated their plans precisely because of Trump), the U.S runs the risk of a certain degree of isolation on many levels.

    Trump has destroyed trust, threatened allies, used cowboy diplomacy and single handedly caused damage to U.S companies.

    The only non-U.S person on the planet who might have something to gain from the Trump chaos is Putin.
  • Reply 13 of 13
    urahara said:
    We as (French) individuals would have to pay those taxes. Especially for products/services provided by such companies like Apple or Amazon, who focus on providing value to a private person. Why should those companies pay more than French companies?
    This is such a BS.
    One of the original problems that prompted this was Google, selling a digital service like advertising. They would sell advertising to French companies to advertise to French viewers on French websites but because they sold the service from another country (I think it was Ireland), the French companies paid VAT to Google but it went to that other country. They also recognised no revenue in France as a result and paid no tax on the profit. A French company performing the same service as Google would be contributing to the local economy that they are benefitting from by paying both VAT and tax on their earnings. You are fortunate that France has a large domestic economy and many local corporations. In smaller countries with many more foreign companies, it's even harder for the government to collect tax.  
    edited January 2020 avon b7watto_cobra
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