US backs EU's call for a global digital tax deal

Posted:
in General Discussion edited February 2020
The French government warns that failure to reach a single, international digital tax system would make business hard for firms including Apple -- and the US Treasury agrees.

Apple Store Champs-Elysees, France.
Apple Store Champs-Elysees, France.


Following the European Union's unveiling of its strategy for digital taxation, world financial leaders are meeting to discuss how to create and implement a global system. At the same time, US Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin has said that if there is no one overall deal, Washington will threaten tariffs to prevent the creation of different tax systems in different countries.

"We've been very consistent in saying we think the digital services tax is discriminatory in nature against digital companies, and specifically a handful of U.S. companies," he told reporters, according to Reuters. "The president was clear that we were proceeding with ... reciprocal tariffs."

At the two-day G20 economic conference in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire emphasized the importance of global accord. He said that the conference was on track to debate the issues for the rest of the year.

"For the first time there is wide consensus among the G20 members on the necessity of having a new international taxation system," Le Maire said.

"We have to address the issue of digital companies making profits in many countries without any physical presence, which means without paying the due level of taxes," he said. "And we also have to address the key question of minimum taxation and the risk of having a race to the bottom on taxation."

"There is a consensus to build a solution by the end of 2020," Le Maire continued. "Let's be clear -- either we have at the end of 2020 an international solution... clearly in the interest of all countries and digital companies, or there is no solution and ... then it will be up the national taxes to enter into force."

While the discussions have been planned to continue throughout 2020, the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD), says that it wants to achieve agreement on technical issues by July.

France, which had been about to introduce its own digital tax system, has postponed the project until the current discussions are concluded.

Previously, Bruno Le Maire has accused Apple and Google of "abusive commercial practices" for their dealings with local app developers.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 35
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    Huh?  Every country has to agree on "one overall deal" or the U.S. will block it with tariffs?

    So, the U.S. can do whatever it wants, anyway it wants, whenever it wants.   But, with businesses operating in each of their countries, the rest of the world has to march in lockstep (and probably to Mnuchin's drum?).

    The arrogance is staggering!
    jony0muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 2 of 35
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 9,233member
    Huh?  Every country has to agree on "one overall deal" or the U.S. will block it with tariffs?

    So, the U.S. can do whatever it wants, anyway it wants, whenever it wants.   But, with businesses operating in each of their countries, the rest of the world has to march in lockstep (and probably to Mnuchin's drum?).

    The arrogance is staggering!
    That's correct. The Eurocrats need to know who the boss is, and in case their deluded minds do not know the answer to that, it's not them.

    The USA is not going to tolerate a bunch of mafia like EU countries imposing harsh digital taxes on mostly American companies and letting them get away with doing whatever they want. The USA also has the power to impose various measures against those thuggish countries to compensate for their extortion and thievery.
    edited February 2020 lkruppjbdragonentropysgeorgie01cornchipJanNL
  • Reply 3 of 35
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,664member
    Huh?  Every country has to agree on "one overall deal" or the U.S. will block it with tariffs?

    So, the U.S. can do whatever it wants, anyway it wants, whenever it wants.   But, with businesses operating in each of their countries, the rest of the world has to march in lockstep (and probably to Mnuchin's drum?).

    The arrogance is staggering!
    It is part of the 'you can play, but America must win' approach.

    We'll have to see how things pan out but the U.S has a lot more to lose than win by rocking the boat so much.

    The arrogance is not lost on foreign leaders who will simply have to adapt to possible tariffs, enter tit-for-tat mode or take trade elsewhere. 

    Now, with every tweet and threat, I feel we are closer to someone calling the U.S bluff. If the Chinese were to dump Boeing and go Airbus to a larger degree than it is, that would put the cat among the pigeons and Trump would only have himself to blame. Of course, taking all that business to the EU would come at a price because the deal world have to swing both ways.

    To be honest, I think most foreign leaders now see Trump as the 'outgoing' president and are banking on any successor having to bend over backwards to repair the incredible damage done on just about every level to international relations.
    GeorgeBMacsphericmuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 4 of 35
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    I welcome the US tariffs, it'll give Europe the kick to put together its own answers to the cess pool of privacy-violating, tax-avoiding, adware-spewing digital services we get drowned in from the US.  There have been plenty of decent digital start ups from Europe, but they get drowned out by the American behemoths that pay for great technology with gross backoffice business practices.

    Mnuchin's stance is both obvious and odious; "our way or no way".  That kind of dickheadedness shouldn't even be invited, the US has repeatedly shown it has no authority to lead or even be a part of the grown-up conversation.
    edited February 2020 GeorgeBMacsphericmuthuk_vanalingamCarnage
  • Reply 5 of 35
    Huh?  Every country has to agree on "one overall deal" or the U.S. will block it with tariffs?

    So, the U.S. can do whatever it wants, anyway it wants, whenever it wants.   But, with businesses operating in each of their countries, the rest of the world has to march in lockstep (and probably to Mnuchin's drum?).

    The arrogance is staggering!
    What the US is pushing for is consensus amongst participants and insurance against a shake down and prevent some of these nations from saying that unless you pay a 75% tax you'll be blocked from transacting any further in said nation. The US is aligned with the idea of the tax but there needs to be structure...and yes, there will be countries out there looking for the shake down - just look at what happens to tourist in some countries where the local authorities will extort them...you don't think that would happen here?
    jbdragonmike1
  • Reply 6 of 35
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 10,557member
    Huh?  Every country has to agree on "one overall deal" or the U.S. will block it with tariffs?

    So, the U.S. can do whatever it wants, anyway it wants, whenever it wants.   But, with businesses operating in each of their countries, the rest of the world has to march in lockstep (and probably to Mnuchin's drum?).

    The arrogance is staggering!
    Maybe, if you're a one-world-government globalist, you find this arrogant. Most Americans will not. I know the left is trying mightily to end capitalism, nationalism, patriotism, and any other ideology that supports pride in one's nation and its achievements. The fact of the matter is that Europe still suckles at the teat of American capitalism. Their entire economies depend on the U.S. buying their products and supplying them with military security. Without our military presence and guarantees Europe would descend into the same conditions that resulted two world wars in the twentieth century. There's no reason to claim they wouldn't do it again because they are now "unified". 
    jbdragonapple ][entropysgeorgie01
  • Reply 7 of 35
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    lkrupp said:
    Huh?  Every country has to agree on "one overall deal" or the U.S. will block it with tariffs?

    So, the U.S. can do whatever it wants, anyway it wants, whenever it wants.   But, with businesses operating in each of their countries, the rest of the world has to march in lockstep (and probably to Mnuchin's drum?).

    The arrogance is staggering!
    Maybe, if you're a one-world-government globalist, you find this arrogant. Most Americans will not. I know the left is trying mightily to end capitalism, nationalism, patriotism, and any other ideology that supports pride in one's nation and its achievements. The fact of the matter is that Europe still suckles at the teat of American capitalism. Their entire economies depend on the U.S. buying their products and supplying them with military security. Without our military presence and guarantees Europe would descend into the same conditions that resulted two world wars in the twentieth century. There's no reason to claim they wouldn't do it again because they are now "unified". 

    Yeh, if you believe right wing propaganda.
    cmd-zsphericmuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 8 of 35
    jbdragonjbdragon Posts: 2,311member
    Well I for one would like the U.S. to pull out of Europe and take care of themselves. Of course all these countries are all for finding new ways to tax American company's because they can't seem to do anything for themselves.
  • Reply 9 of 35
    "global digital tax deal"

    You misspelled "cash grab".
    cornchip
  • Reply 10 of 35
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    apple ][ said:
    Huh?  Every country has to agree on "one overall deal" or the U.S. will block it with tariffs?

    So, the U.S. can do whatever it wants, anyway it wants, whenever it wants.   But, with businesses operating in each of their countries, the rest of the world has to march in lockstep (and probably to Mnuchin's drum?).

    The arrogance is staggering!
    That's correct. The Eurocrats need to know who the boss is, and in case their deluded minds do not know the answer to that, it's not them.

    The USA is not going to tolerate a bunch of mafia like EU countries imposing harsh digital taxes on mostly American companies and letting them get away with doing whatever they want. The USA also has the power to impose various measures against those thuggish countries to compensate for their extortion and thievery.

    Taxing a company doing business and profiting in one's own country seems kind of reasonable.
    Would you take the same stance if Alibaba started operating in the U.S. but refused to pay U.S. taxes?

    And,  the 'mafia' is NOT the EU but the U.S. acting like a mob boss.  And that "boss" thing only carries you till it doesn't.   We tried threatening China with it but had to back down when they called our bluff.
    This mob-boss, protection racket thing Trump is trying to pull will have long term consequences.   After Bush lied to the world about Iraq and now Trump trying to shake them down the world is realizing the U.S. is no longer a reliable partner and has begun taking steps to shake off any reliance on the U.S..  Even if a responsible person takes the White House this fall, the world now realizes the U.S. can no longer be trusted over time.
    spheric
  • Reply 11 of 35
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    lkrupp said:
    Huh?  Every country has to agree on "one overall deal" or the U.S. will block it with tariffs?

    So, the U.S. can do whatever it wants, anyway it wants, whenever it wants.   But, with businesses operating in each of their countries, the rest of the world has to march in lockstep (and probably to Mnuchin's drum?).

    The arrogance is staggering!
    Maybe, if you're a one-world-government globalist, you find this arrogant. Most Americans will not. I know the left is trying mightily to end capitalism, nationalism, patriotism, and any other ideology that supports pride in one's nation and its achievements. The fact of the matter is that Europe still suckles at the teat of American capitalism. Their entire economies depend on the U.S. buying their products and supplying them with military security. Without our military presence and guarantees Europe would descend into the same conditions that resulted two world wars in the twentieth century. There's no reason to claim they wouldn't do it again because they are now "unified". 
    You actually believe this shit?
    auxiocmd-zGeorgeBMacsphericmuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 12 of 35
    LeoMCLeoMC Posts: 102member
    lkrupp said:
    The fact of the matter is that Europe still suckles at the teat of American capitalism. Their entire economies depend on the U.S. buying their products and supplying them with military security.
    Without our military presence and guarantees Europe would descend into the same conditions that resulted two world wars in the twentieth century. There's no reason to claim they wouldn't do it again because they are now "unified". 
    EU trades with US just 3 times more than it does with Switzerland; after reading that, think about the fact that S. has 38 times less people than US.
    Europeans like to fight, but most of the time they fight at home; on the other hand, US fights mainly in other homes...
  • Reply 13 of 35
    avon b7 said:
    Huh?  Every country has to agree on "one overall deal" or the U.S. will block it with tariffs?

    So, the U.S. can do whatever it wants, anyway it wants, whenever it wants.   But, with businesses operating in each of their countries, the rest of the world has to march in lockstep (and probably to Mnuchin's drum?).

    The arrogance is staggering!
    It is part of the 'you can play, but America must win' approach.

    We'll have to see how things pan out but the U.S has a lot more to lose than win by rocking the boat so much.

    The arrogance is not lost on foreign leaders who will simply have to adapt to possible tariffs, enter tit-for-tat mode or take trade elsewhere. 

    Now, with every tweet and threat, I feel we are closer to someone calling the U.S bluff. If the Chinese were to dump Boeing and go Airbus to a larger degree than it is, that would put the cat among the pigeons and Trump would only have himself to blame. Of course, taking all that business to the EU would come at a price because the deal world have to swing both ways.

    To be honest, I think most foreign leaders now see Trump as the 'outgoing' president and are banking on any successor having to bend over backwards to repair the incredible damage done on just about every level to international relations.
    facts...just look at all of the people today that came out in India to rally against Trump...oh, wait it was in support of Trump, my bad. Then there's China who wants absolutely nothing to do with Trump and will never agree to work with the US so long as he's President...oh wait, China just signed a new trade agreement with the US, my bad. Ahh, the Middle East they just, oh wait there's a new Afgan agreement on the table and new peace agreement on the table between Isreal and Palestine. So exactly who are these foreign leaders who see Trump as the 'outgoing' President and who are they seeing as the more suitable replacement?   
    georgie01
  • Reply 14 of 35
    entropysentropys Posts: 4,163member
    Personally my general rule is always vote against a mob planning to raise taxes. It only encourages them.

    I am always reminded of the great words of Kerry Packer, a slightly less well known Australian media mogul when he was called before a senate inquiry on tax minimisation thirty years ago


    beowulfschmidt
  • Reply 15 of 35
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    entropys said:
    Personally my general rule is always vote against a mob planning to raise taxes. It only encourages them.
    ?  

    Why do you vote to encourage the mob?
  • Reply 16 of 35
    Aren't most of the companies affected by this global tax based in America? That gives America a special role in this issue.
  • Reply 17 of 35
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,664member
    NinjaMan said:
    avon b7 said:
    Huh?  Every country has to agree on "one overall deal" or the U.S. will block it with tariffs?

    So, the U.S. can do whatever it wants, anyway it wants, whenever it wants.   But, with businesses operating in each of their countries, the rest of the world has to march in lockstep (and probably to Mnuchin's drum?).

    The arrogance is staggering!
    It is part of the 'you can play, but America must win' approach.

    We'll have to see how things pan out but the U.S has a lot more to lose than win by rocking the boat so much.

    The arrogance is not lost on foreign leaders who will simply have to adapt to possible tariffs, enter tit-for-tat mode or take trade elsewhere. 

    Now, with every tweet and threat, I feel we are closer to someone calling the U.S bluff. If the Chinese were to dump Boeing and go Airbus to a larger degree than it is, that would put the cat among the pigeons and Trump would only have himself to blame. Of course, taking all that business to the EU would come at a price because the deal world have to swing both ways.

    To be honest, I think most foreign leaders now see Trump as the 'outgoing' president and are banking on any successor having to bend over backwards to repair the incredible damage done on just about every level to international relations.
    facts...just look at all of the people today that came out in India to rally against Trump...oh, wait it was in support of Trump, my bad. Then there's China who wants absolutely nothing to do with Trump and will never agree to work with the US so long as he's President...oh wait, China just signed a new trade agreement with the US, my bad. Ahh, the Middle East they just, oh wait there's a new Afgan agreement on the table and new peace agreement on the table between Isreal and Palestine. So exactly who are these foreign leaders who see Trump as the 'outgoing' President and who are they seeing as the more suitable replacement?   
    Modi, like everyone else has to walk a thin line with Trump. Did you notice the distinct lack of any U.S/India trade deal? Did you notice that the U.S/China trade deal is anything but a trade deal as it stands? We have something called 'Phase One' and few people even know what it actually represents. At best it is a stop gap. More telling is that 'Phase Two' is scheduled for after the U.S elections.

    As for who sees Trump as the 'outgoing' president, I'd wager big money on just about every leader. I'm including Boris Johnson in this group too. For a more suitable replacement, let's say practically anybody.
    GeorgeBMacmuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 18 of 35
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 10,557member
    lkrupp said:
    Huh?  Every country has to agree on "one overall deal" or the U.S. will block it with tariffs?

    So, the U.S. can do whatever it wants, anyway it wants, whenever it wants.   But, with businesses operating in each of their countries, the rest of the world has to march in lockstep (and probably to Mnuchin's drum?).

    The arrogance is staggering!
    Maybe, if you're a one-world-government globalist, you find this arrogant. Most Americans will not. I know the left is trying mightily to end capitalism, nationalism, patriotism, and any other ideology that supports pride in one's nation and its achievements. The fact of the matter is that Europe still suckles at the teat of American capitalism. Their entire economies depend on the U.S. buying their products and supplying them with military security. Without our military presence and guarantees Europe would descend into the same conditions that resulted two world wars in the twentieth century. There's no reason to claim they wouldn't do it again because they are now "unified". 

    Yeh, if you believe right wing propaganda.
    Well, you believe left wing propaganda so what's the problem?
    georgie01
  • Reply 19 of 35
    avon b7 said:

    facts...just look at all of the people today that came out in India to rally against Trump...oh, wait it was in support of Trump, my bad. Then there's China who wants absolutely nothing to do with Trump and will never agree to work with the US so long as he's President...oh wait, China just signed a new trade agreement with the US, my bad. Ahh, the Middle East they just, oh wait there's a new Afgan agreement on the table and new peace agreement on the table between Isreal and Palestine. So exactly who are these foreign leaders who see Trump as the 'outgoing' President and who are they seeing as the more suitable replacement?   
    Modi, like everyone else has to walk a thin line with Trump. Did you notice the distinct lack of any U.S/India trade deal? Did you notice that the U.S/China trade deal is anything but a trade deal as it stands? We have something called 'Phase One' and few people even know what it actually represents. At best it is a stop gap. More telling is that 'Phase Two' is scheduled for after the U.S elections.

    As for who sees Trump as the 'outgoing' president, I'd wager big money on just about every leader. I'm including Boris Johnson in this group too. For a more suitable replacement, let's say practically anybody.
    I’m not meaning to criticise, but if you’re getting your news about such deals from left-leaning news outlets you can be assured they are just as biased and misleading as any right-leaning outlet.

    There were hoards on the left (and right) who didn’t think Trump would win in 2016. There is about 100X more reason to think he will win in 2020 than in 2016. The left loves to spin anything to discredit Trump, but like him or not only the most self-deluded believe he won’t be re-elected.
  • Reply 20 of 35
    avon b7 said:

    facts...just look at all of the people today that came out in India to rally against Trump...oh, wait it was in support of Trump, my bad. Then there's China who wants absolutely nothing to do with Trump and will never agree to work with the US so long as he's President...oh wait, China just signed a new trade agreement with the US, my bad. Ahh, the Middle East they just, oh wait there's a new Afgan agreement on the table and new peace agreement on the table between Isreal and Palestine. So exactly who are these foreign leaders who see Trump as the 'outgoing' President and who are they seeing as the more suitable replacement?   
    Modi, like everyone else has to walk a thin line with Trump. Did you notice the distinct lack of any U.S/India trade deal? Did you notice that the U.S/China trade deal is anything but a trade deal as it stands? We have something called 'Phase One' and few people even know what it actually represents. At best it is a stop gap. More telling is that 'Phase Two' is scheduled for after the U.S elections.

    As for who sees Trump as the 'outgoing' president, I'd wager big money on just about every leader. I'm including Boris Johnson in this group too. For a more suitable replacement, let's say practically anybody.
    I’m not meaning to criticise, but if you’re getting your news about such deals from left-leaning news outlets you can be assured they are just as biased and misleading as any right-leaning outlet.

    There were hoards on the left (and right) who didn’t think Trump would win in 2016. There is about 100X more reason to think he will win in 2020 than in 2016. The left loves to spin anything to discredit Trump, but like him or not only the most self-deluded believe he won’t be re-elected.
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