That’s right, you claimed that the processors would cost Apple more. They don’t, as we see either lower or the same price point with other improved features with much improved performers and power efficiency (as I predicted).
Core i3 with 8 GiB RAM. LOL I can’t believe that’s still your line in the sand on where could hit on performance despite plenty of proof showing you the superiority of the M-series SoC.
A huge story for every Apple customer, Apple shareholders, for Intel, and the WinPC market as a whole. You’re inability to understand why a $999 MacBook Air with no fan outperforming a loaded 16” MBP is a good thing for customers or how the ability to run iOS and IPadOS apps on the M1 Macs will attract switchers is neither something I understand or willing to fix. Instead I’ll let you wallow in your misery as you ramp up your trolling.
They don't cost more? Are you sure? Because it seems to me that Apple had the same price for the $999 MacBook Air Mac Mini despite taking a bunch of other components out and integrating them into M1.
A huge story for Apple customers and shareholders? Obviously. For everyone else? Not so much ...
You’re inability to understand why a $999 MacBook Air with no fan outperforming a loaded 16” MBP is a good thing for customers ...
No. It is great for Mac fans! But for the 92-95% of people in any given quarter who do not buy Macs not so much.
"or how the ability to run iOS and IPadOS apps on the M1 Macs will attract switchers"
Yeah, if you think that there is going to be this stampede from Windows laptop owners to pay $999 for MacBooks for the privilege of running iPad apps - on a non touchscreen UX/UI no less! - instead of better, more powerful x86 applications that are actually built for personal computers and not mobile devices then you really don't know people who actually own and use Windows laptops very well? I suppose rather than maybe changing your social and professional circles then that is something that you might want to understand or be willing to fix.
Look, I have seen this site's archives. I have also been on other Apple-centric sites. It is always the same thing: declarations that with each new Apple advance, the competition (whether Android or Windows) is going to dry up and blow away. Why? The presumption is that everyone else loves Apple products as much as you do and all they need is something, some push or incentive or anything to liberate them from the misery that they are wallowing in and join the happy existence of Apple users.
What folks like this never realize is that Windows (and Android) users are happy already. They like their products. They like using them. They have the same anticipation towards buying new ones that you do. They even have the benefit of something that you don't, which is OEMs with great R&D departments that compete against each other for their attention and dollar. And Apple fans fundamentally misunderstand them.
For example: you folks love to say "Windows and Android devices are cheaper than Apple devices upfront ... but you are not considering the total cost of ownership ... Apple devices are more reliable because they last 5-7 years or more."
Makes perfect sense, right? TO YOU. But they are not you.
Windows fan: who wants to wait 7 years to replace my laptop? I like replacing my laptop every 3 years so I can get the latest Threadripper from AMD and really be able to play the latest Steam games!
Android fan: hold onto a smartphone for 5 years? LG/Samsung/Pixel/Huawei/Motorola etc. etc. etc. come out with cool new features every year! And you only need to spend $200 on the latest decent Android phone to get them!
Sorry, but Apple was only able to dominate the MP3 player, smartphone, tablet and smartwatch markets because there were no established products by large well known companies in them prior. You had Blackberry, Android Wear and a bunch of other stuff even more obscure. But Apple has never been able to achieve the sort of mass migration from one established product or platform to another that you are talking about. The closest that we have seen to that is the AirPod. The reason: you need to give people a compelling incentive or reason to switch. Meaning that you need to give people a reason to give up a successful product that they already fundamentally like for a product that they like better.
Android - for example - accomplished that by offering the combination of much bigger screens and substantially lower prices. What doesn't accomplish that is to have people pay more money for machines to run software that they don't use and/or have no interest in faster.
"Hey Billy, put down that $750 gaming PC and buy this $1000 MacBook Air instead."
"Can I play Rocket League on it"?
"No but Apple design the CPU!"
"Can I play The Division on it"?
"No, but you won't get viruses and it doesn't have a fan!"
"Can I at least get my copy of Windows going in VirtualBox on it so I can use the programs that I need for work on it?"
"No but it runs a ton of iPhone and iPad apps that your job absolutely doesn't use! And you can use Continuity to hand off from your iPad and iPhone to your Mac!"
"All right fine but can I dual boot, upgrade the RAM or add an eGPU?"
"No but you will be able to use it for 5 years and still sell it for $500!"
See above. You have failed to explain how switching from Windows to macOS makes his life better. Instead, you are making the case why he should completely change his computing use case - the reasons why he buys his computers in the first place, which is to game and to use software that his job requires - around becoming a consumer of Apple hardware. Please realize that nearly no one is going to do that no matter how fast Macs are.
Now note that I did say nearly. You do have some people who want and need the most powerful machine they can get their hands on without having to deal with the difficulty or expense of an actual workstation or server and don't need much in the way of consumer facing or workspace specific software. For those people - developers are a great example of this, although not right now as a lot of the software and tools that they need aren't on the M1 Macs, can't be translated with Rosetta 2 (or don't want them to be for performance reasons) and won't be for awhile yet - the M1 Macs as well as Macs with the even better chips that Apple will release starting next year will be great. The problem is that there aren't very many such people. I will say it again: the number of people who actually need a chip faster than an Intel Core i5 or i7 and who won't be convenienced by giving up their Windows software isn't very big.
Just do the whole Venn diagram thing ... most people who want a faster chip than the i7 also want/need to hold onto their Windows software. Most people who have no real ties to Windows software don't want/need fast performance in the first place. And - this will really get you - most people who need the fastest performance they can get and don't need Windows software are so because they are in the creative industries and as a result have Macs already!
So yeah, I am trolling you I guess. But this "troll" has actual experience working with macOS (and its predecessors), iOS, Windows (and its predecessors MS-DOS and IBM PC-DOS), Linux, various mainframes, Android and ChromeOS. And being around a bunch of coworkers, students etc. who have the same. My guess is ... you don't? So, my trolling comes from the perspective of the 95% (give or take depending upon the product) of people who don't exclusively use Apple products and actually likes the non-Apple products that we do use and likes them a lot. And that is a perspective that you do not have. I repeat: if you think that there is this whole sea of people out there who hate Wintel or love Apple as much as you do and are just itching and dying to switch, you need to first ask yourself why they haven't jumped ship already. If they hated Windows that badly, they could have switched to macOS at any time. Since they didn't ... shouldn't you presume that they don't hate Windows at all then?
[At the time of writing this, I haven't read comments past the above post I'm quoting, so after posting this it'll be interesting to see what others have to say. But want to post this before I read on and have my thoughts otherwise influenced. So...]
Y'know @cloudguy, sometimes on these forums (idk what you're like in real life so no assumptions there) you come across as an arrogant, obnoxious jerk, ;-) but sometimes you make some well thought out, well expressed and generally good points, and you've done so in this post. You've given it a lot of thought and presented your explanation very clearly and logically. For what it's worth I appreciate that.
At the risk of pouring it on a little too thick (not my intention, just speaking my mind) in particular I appreciate and agree with your exposition of how different people have different priorities and your acknowledgement that Apple meets the priorities of some people really well and Windows etc. meet the priorities of the other people really well. It would serve many over the top Apple fans well to figure that out and get over themselves.
All that said, I'd venture to say that I think sometimes you read more into some people's posts than is there. I agree that plenty of Apple fans have this incorrect idea every time Apple comes out with some new thing that it'll finally be the thing that brings the mass switch. I'm just not seeing how the posts you're responding to in this instance are claiming that. I just wonder if you're a little over the top on the defensive sometimes. But feel free to ignore that opinion if you disagree. Just a consideration.
Now all that said… my opinions for what they're worth…
I agree that very few people if any who are in the market for a $500 laptop will buy a $1K MBA just because it's faster (and/or whatever else) now than it was before. Because the person who wants the $500 laptop doesn't want what the $1K MBA - or what any $1K laptop - brings to the table. Apple has never competed in that market and has no desire to.
But then there IS a large market for $1K+ laptops, and I just wonder how many people who might have been in the market for a $1K Dell or HP or Lenovo, might now consider a $1K MBA if it delivers practically 2-3x the performance. Or how many people in the market for a larger more performant $2K Dell or HP or Lenovo might now consider a $1.5K MBP because it brings better performance for less. Or a $2K MBP (when they arrive next year) because it brings much better performance for the same price.
It won't be a mass switch, but I suspect it won't be insignificant. Maybe Apple's PC market share will hit double digits again, but it won't be much more than that. But the good news for Apple shareholders is, even a few more percentage points will significantly improve Apple's bottom line.
Then there's the question of whether or not Windows will come to ASi. It could come through emulation of x86. It could come through MS finally getting ARM Windows even remotely right. And if these ASi chips are as good as they seem to be, I wonder how many people in the $1K+ market might buy Apple hardware just to run Windows at 2-3x the performance of similarly priced PC's. I'm not pushing that idea. Just speculating possibilities. (You touch on these points too, and correctly note that those people aren't very many.) If nothing else, if Parallels, VMWare, or someone, can figure out emulating x86, and if these ASi chips are as fast as they seem, then even emulating x86 Windows on ASi could be as fast as it is on native Intel chips and that coupled with everything a Mac brings to the table will bring some switchers too. But agreed again, not en masse.
Whatever happens, it will be really interesting to see how this plays out. I for one am looking forward to it all, tentatively.
His post was ridiculous and Rayz2016 was on point, as usual.
To name just a couple things, Cloud invented an odd scenario where someone is choosing between a gaming computer and a Mac and only wanted to play specific games that Cloud knows are not on macOS. Imagine if someone was trying to decided between the PS5 and Nintendo Switch but only wanted to play Zelda and Mario games. The PS5 is then clearly not an option regardless of the HW and UI features it has over the Switch.
He also ignores the advances made without either inflating the price of the MBA or MBP which he deems is Apple raping customers or ignores how the Mac mini dropped in price by $100 because it doesn’t have as many internals of a notebook that can be upgraded at the same price point.
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To name just a couple things, Cloud invented an odd scenario where someone is choosing between a gaming computer and a Mac and only wanted to play specific games that Cloud knows are not on macOS. Imagine if someone was trying to decided between the PS5 and Nintendo Switch but only wanted to play Zelda and Mario games. The PS5 is then clearly not an option regardless of the HW and UI features it has over the Switch.
He also ignores the advances made without either inflating the price of the MBA or MBP which he deems is Apple raping customers or ignores how the Mac mini dropped in price by $100 because it doesn’t have as many internals of a notebook that can be upgraded at the same price point.