Am I still racist because I think this will result in more terror-hate?!?!
"Distinguished Islamic institutions and renowned, moderate Muslim clerics have urged Muslims to join in jihad (holy war) to resist the U.S"
from this article:link
read this article. It may be the beginning of what might prove to be America's biggest blunder in history, or, just a lot more hatred by Islam against us.
and to top it off, we stupidly raised our flag over Iraq and this was spotlighted by El Jazeera . . . .
let's hope its over fast
from this article:link
read this article. It may be the beginning of what might prove to be America's biggest blunder in history, or, just a lot more hatred by Islam against us.
and to top it off, we stupidly raised our flag over Iraq and this was spotlighted by El Jazeera . . . .
let's hope its over fast
Comments
pfflam those who believe in terror will never let it go. War or no war they hate America and the Jewish state of Israel.
The question is do we fear this hate? I say we fight this hate.
Fear all you want you just enable terrorists... Fear is what they want.
The truth of the matter is that some are afraid of freedom and will talk hate all day long in light of the truth that freedom enables people to choose their own path. Islamic Law is not needed to control people. A pluralistic secular society with freedom is a context that must be advocated for all. If for one second you are afraid of some leaders that want Islamic Law for the world I am sorry.
Fear not... Fight for freedom.
Look at history. America has never been afraid of fighting for the cause of Humanity.
Fellowship
Real moderate "Islamic people" are pissed off naturally, but I do not think a violent movement is in order from the largest portion of these people...for now.
FellowshipChurch iBook:
pfflam and ABC news... need I say more.
Yes, please continue. ABC isn't that bad, it does represent some truth.
those who believe in terror will never let it go.
Terror can be overcome with time and education.
they hate America and the Jewish state of Israel.
The worst thing we can do right now is say "they". Do you mean the terrorists or the entire middle-east?
Its kind of arrogant to assume they will hate no matter what...they are people and are outraged for a reason, they see their land being "occupied" and are upset that America wants to change their nations, traditions and religions whether these are false assumptions or not!
I say we fight this hate.
I have great hopes you mean with education, aid and unintrusive diplomacy, not warfare.
Fear is what they want.
Fear is what you think they want because you are afraid. They want to destroy the US or get it out of their land and business.
some are afraid of freedom and will talk hate all day long in light of the truth that freedom enables people to choose their own path.
You sound like Condaleeza Rice: "What is at the root, is a hatred of freedom" which is complete rederick and propaganda.
They do not blindly follow a hatred for the US all the while with the knowledge that freedom is positive. Those who hate are angry at the US and likely live in oppressive regimes, under fundamentalist tyranny. They are not just being obstinate!
America has never been afraid of fighting for the cause of Humanity.
hello? Alzheimer's hotline...I have a friend who I think needs help...WW2: I guess it must be an error in the history books where the US was afraid of entering the battle against Hitler's oppression of freedom (one hell of a cause of humanity!) because the US wanted to remain "indepenent".
Don't heap that "America the freedom fighter throughout history" crap on me, I have the books right here.
Originally posted by FellowshipChurch iBook
Look at history. America has never been afraid of fighting for the cause of Humanity.
I would disagree. America has often been afraid to fight for the cause of humanity, and we always suffer for it (see 1991). This time we're not afraid.
Changing the goal posts?
there is no reason for lots of nations to "love" america
there are plently enough reasons to hate america
their wars the last 100 years being a good example
FellowshipChurch iBook:
The question is do we fear this hate? I say we fight this hate.
I say you are not a good Christian, a good Christian would first try the peacefull way
Originally posted by pfflam
"Distinguished Islamic institutions and renowned, moderate Muslim clerics have urged Muslims to join in jihad (holy war) to resist the U.S"
from this article:link
read this article. It may be the beginning of what might prove to be America's biggest blunder in history, or, just a lot more hatred by Islam against us.
and to top it off, we stupidly raised our flag over Iraq and this was spotlighted by El Jazeera . . . .
let's hope its over fast
pfflam
I don't believe your lack of backbone. Would you have allowed slavery to continue in the southern states just because attempts to resist it would possibly crystalize their hatred of you and your freedom into desiring war with you.
Perhaps this might be the case here but I doubt. Anytime I read a news article that starts with a rhetorical question, I consider it a make-news article.
Finally consider if it were true. As has been argued here time and time again. Even if you declare all you want is peace at any cost. They are still of the opinion that you are an infidel and want you dead. There really isn't much of a middle ground in that discussion in case you hadn't noticed. Their reasoning is pretty much, convert to islam, give up all your rights to our annointed, appointed islamc leaders, do this now.
Not really much room for give and take there and so we are left with trying to possibly shock and awe their leadership into taking a little closer look at the koran.
Nick
Originally posted by trumptman
Finally consider if it were true. As has been argued here time and time again. Even if you declare all you want is peace at any cost. They are still of the opinion that you are an infidel and want you dead. There really isn't much of a middle ground in that discussion in case you hadn't noticed. Their reasoning is pretty much, convert to islam, give up all your rights to our annointed, appointed islamc leaders, do this now.
Not really much room for give and take there and so we are left with trying to possibly shock and awe their leadership into taking a little closer look at the koran.
Nick
And don't think you're off the hook if you're neither Jewish or Christian. Athiests, Hindus, and Buddhists , to name a few, are included.
Originally posted by trumptman
They are still of the opinion that you are an infidel and want you dead. There really isn't much of a middle ground in that discussion in case you hadn't noticed. Their reasoning is pretty much, convert to islam, give up all your rights to our annointed, appointed islamc leaders, do this now.
Not really much room for give and take there and so we are left with trying to possibly shock and awe their leadership into taking a little closer look at the koran.
Nick
Understanding all of this doesn't mean you're a racist, because there are fanatics in all religions and cultures.
The folks who suggest that democracy will never take hold in the Middle East ARE racists. They cite "cultural differences" or historical precedent but the whole argument is tainted with the undertone that folks over there are incapable of enjoying their full set of God-given rights.
I fail to understand the question you're asking. Is someone accusing you of being a racist because you believe military actions against Muslim state(s) will result in more terrorist activity? I have missed the last few weeks of heated debate in here, but what does racism (as it's often taken to mean in this country) have to do with your position on this war? Or anyone else's position. They're separate issues and anyone who tries to make it into the same issue is obviously grasping for straws.
I'm guessing by your usual political leanings you are against the war, the administration and all the rest (that's fine, dissent can be a good thing). So disagree with you maybe, but why would anyone call you racist for that? Typically it's the protestors calling those in government and military "racist", no?
FCiB: ABC News (at least as far as their late night coverage and special interruption coverage with Peter Jennings) is by far the most level-headed national media outlet. CNN is nothing more than a barage of sound-bites, graphics and contradictory quotes, all with a big lack of context. Fox is Fox, and NBC and CBS are relatively more sensational IMO. Either way, ALL television network coverage sucks in that it generally lacks proper context, focuses too much on image and the most sensational story of the day.
Go read the NYT for some relatively solid information. Almost too much information at points. I actually read an article from last night where the reporter was giving away the call sign of the Marine forward observer, and other details he had no business divulging. Hopefully the scene he reported on was long overwith by the time the words got online.
The latest ncedent of Akbar killing one and wounding 13 of his own compatriots as an anti war/anti-American gesture goes to show how far this [ . . .] war will turn people against us.
Originally posted by pfflam
The latest ncedent of Akbar killing one and wounding 13 of his own compatriots as an anti war/anti-American gesture goes to show how far this [ . . .] war will turn people against us.
Huh?! You think this guy is just another protester?! I hope you'renot excusing his actions.
Originally posted by sapi
I hope that after this war America will try to be less aggresive in future conflicts.
less aggressive as the U.S. was in WWII, where we didn't want to get involved until Pearl Harbor. I wonder if your countrymen felt the same way 50 years ago. maybe you should ask some of the older folks if they appreciated the "less aggressive" stance the U.S. had then.
Originally posted by sapi
there is no reason for lots of nations to "love" america
well, as long as you don't want to include the fact that our economy has been propping up the world economy for the last decade or so.
Originally posted by sapi
there are plently enough reasons to hate america
such as?
Originally posted by sapi
their wars the last 100 years being a good examplle.
again, WWI, WWII? don't know if you want to go all the way back to 100 years ago. last 25 years and you might have something there.
Originally posted by BuonRotto
Huh?! You think this guy is just another protester?! I hope you'renot excusing his actions.
Is it really that hard to understand in the context of the thread: he is a muslim wo said that he was anti-war, as are, and will be, many reactionary muslims around the world.
Originally posted by pfflam
Is it really that hard to understand in the context of the thread: he is a muslim wo said that he was anti-war, as are, and will be, many reactionary muslims around the world.
Wow, he's anti-war AND part of the military? Brilliant!
You don't have to defend your position to me. In a situation like this people will believe what suits their impulses until proven wrong. That goes for both sides.
I'm just trying to figure out where the racist part comes from. Sounds to me like you're exaggerating a bit. That or maybe they were calling you racist in a related but different context. Sort of like when people say "there's no way the average Muslim over there can appreciate democracy as we know it; it'll never work", etc). That, it could be argued, is a racist stance.
But that's wholly different than "starting this war will anger many Muslims to the point of carrying out more attacks against us". That, I think, is pretty much a foregone conclusion. The problem is, no one seems to mention the probability that if we had just *considered* war with the Security Council, but never actually attacked, terrorist activity would increase anyway. The people who want an excuse to kill Americans, Brits and other westerners will find one. Simple.
Originally posted by sapi
there are plently enough reasons to hate america
their wars the last 100 years being a good example
So, pulling Europe's collective ass out of the shitter is a good reason to hate America?
Originally posted by Outsider
Wow, he's anti-war AND part of the military? Brilliant!
Violent Peace Activist/volunteer soldier?
"You can't imagine how the military strikes on Baghdad and on the other cities are provoking people every night," said the chairman of the foreign relations committee in the Egyptian parliament, Mustafa al-Feqi, who described himself as a friend of the United States.
"We don't think of Saddam," he added. "We think of civilian Iraqis who are dying every hour. And if the war continues and Saddam Hussein proves to be much stronger, the Arab street will blow up."