KGB-type justice in the US

der kopfder kopf
Posted:
in General Discussion edited January 2014
It seems that justice in the US has, of late, taken a few steps backwards. I think everybody knows that there are still a few hundred men held prisoner in Cuba, Guantanamo Bay. These have no statute. Some say they should be considered POWs, but if that would be so, they should be released after the end of the conflict due to which they were captured. If not, they are prisoners of the US judicial system, and should have the rights any US prisoner should have. Apparently, since the Patriot Act was passed, the US judicial system has, in effect, rights that made the Soviet Empire into the Evil Empire the world considered it to be. Emprisonment without end, if 'suspected' of ties with terrorism. What does that mean? Under the TIPS program, any garbage man or postal worker having a personal beef with you, can drop a line with the authorities, and have you taken away for a long time. How long? Only time will tell. That is some creepy stuff.



What makes me say this? The 'disappearment' of a former Intel programmer:



wired
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 24
    jrcjrc Posts: 817member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by der Kopf

    It seems that justice in the US has, of late, taken a few steps backwards. I think everybody knows that there are still a few hundred men held prisoner in Cuba, Guantanamo Bay. These have no statute. Some say they should be considered POWs, but if that would be so, they should be released after the end of the conflict due to which they were captured. If not, they are prisoners of the US judicial system, and should have the rights any US prisoner should have. Apparently, since the Patriot Act was passed, the US judicial system has, in effect, rights that made the Soviet Empire into the Evil Empire the world considered it to be. Emprisonment without end, if 'suspected' of ties with terrorism. What does that mean? Under the TIPS program, any garbage man or postal worker having a personal beef with you, can drop a line with the authorities, and have you taken away for a long time. How long? Only time will tell. That is some creepy stuff.



    What makes me say this? The 'disappearment' of a former Intel programmer:



    wired



    I think it's amazing how many guilty people get let go to commit crimes again. Now that's a stupid system.
  • Reply 2 of 24
    der kopfder kopf Posts: 2,275member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by JRC

    I think it's amazing how many guilty people get let go to commit crimes again. Now that's a stupid system.



    I agree, but there is a distinct difference between detaining a person without charging him of anything (in Belgium, one can be detained for a max of 24 hours without formally being charged) and detaining a person when charged.



    In the first case, it gives rise to complete lawlessness on the part of the authorities: arrests / unlimited periods of encarceration WITHOUT an official reason, this IMHO, is not done.
  • Reply 3 of 24
    groveratgroverat Posts: 10,872member
    It's just like the KGB except people can speak out against it. And he gets a lawyer. And he can see his family. And he hasn't been shot through the forehead.



    Is this actually a violation of due process? The article didn't really make a case.



    Point of fact in the article, Padilla has been given the right to see a lawyer, that happened a month ago.



    Just like the KGB, except very very different.
  • Reply 4 of 24
    hassan i sabbahhassan i sabbah Posts: 3,987member
    In brief, the facts are these.



    Arab American (born in the West Bank) called Hawash makes a large donation to a Middle Eastern charity three years ago.



    Charity is declared to have "links with terrorism".



    The FBI's Joint Terrorism Taskforce go through receipts, discover the donation.



    They then take him from his place of work and put him into solitary confinement where he has been held for two weeks under new legislation that allows them to keep him for as long as they like without charge.



    Okiedokie.



    Did you know that in France there's a law that says you can't criticise the President? It hasn't been used since the early 1800s, but still.
  • Reply 5 of 24
    groveratgroverat Posts: 10,872member
    touche!
  • Reply 6 of 24
    sammi josammi jo Posts: 4,634member
    Shape of things to come? Sime more links to the Hawash case:



    http://www2.ocregister.com/ocrweb/oc...&month=4&day=4



    and



    http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/30046.html



    and



    http://www.oregonlive.com/letters/or...9701879330.xml



    It's so easy to be smug about this kind of stuff.....("this kind of stuff doesn't happen here...") that is, until they break your door down. Kind of puts a different edge on the day....
  • Reply 7 of 24
    hassan i sabbahhassan i sabbah Posts: 3,987member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by groverat

    touche!



    Now I feel bad.



  • Reply 8 of 24
    bungebunge Posts: 7,329member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Hassan i Sabbah

    Now I feel bad.



    Beeding heart...
  • Reply 9 of 24
    hassan i sabbahhassan i sabbah Posts: 3,987member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by bunge

    Beeding heart...



    You know, Bunge, I'm finding it hard to hate everyone and everything. As I get older (I'm 13) I discover that under the skin we're all basically the same (apart from anthropoid robots and disguised space aliens, like in 'V') and we should all make an effort to show each other some basic common civility. Knock a mans down, pick a mans up.



    No, wait. I'm 31. Hell and death, hell and death.
  • Reply 10 of 24
    giantgiant Posts: 6,041member
    I was almost going to ask how a 13 year old knew about V.
  • Reply 11 of 24
    der kopfder kopf Posts: 2,275member
    I miss V.
  • Reply 12 of 24
    hassan i sabbahhassan i sabbah Posts: 3,987member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by der Kopf

    I miss V.



    Don't kid yourself, Kopf. V was shit.
  • Reply 13 of 24
    giantgiant Posts: 6,041member
    nostalgia is 20/40



    but you've got to give it up to the imagery of skin pulling back to reveal the green alien
  • Reply 14 of 24
    der kopfder kopf Posts: 2,275member
    I particularly remember this one episode where the ship's pharmacist was wrongly accused and convicted of a murder she didn't commit, and then was sent out into space in a glass coffin, together with the victim. You see, V probably was shit, but I was young enough not to mind when it was on.
  • Reply 15 of 24
    bungebunge Posts: 7,329member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Hassan i Sabbah

    You know, Bunge, I'm finding it hard to hate everyone and everything.



    I'll keep working on you then.



    PS I was kidding about the bleeding heart....
  • Reply 16 of 24
    the generalthe general Posts: 649member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Hassan i Sabbah

    Don't kid yourself, Kopf. V was shit.



    No way man! V was du bomb! I got the Mini-series(both of em) on dvd!



  • Reply 17 of 24
    fangornfangorn Posts: 323member
    I just thought Marc Singer was dreamy. But I was young.
  • Reply 18 of 24
    aries 1baries 1b Posts: 1,009member
    Hamilton Tyler (from 'V-The Final Battle', second mini-series played by Michael Ironside) was that show.



    The Pro who showed the bumbling, stumbling civilians how to fight for freedom.



    The V TV series shouldn't have been made.



    BTW, SciFi channel advertised a *new* Battlestar Galactica mini series premiering in December of 2003.



    Aries 1B
  • Reply 19 of 24
    trick falltrick fall Posts: 1,271member
    Quote:

    Just like the KGB, except very very different.



    That maybe true, but it's still ****ed up. It's just not American. I really thought we were stronger than this. I really thought Americans were strong enough to not let these people get to us. I really didn't think we were such pussies that we would give some of the things we cherish and love up like we have. The Patriot act is an act of pussies, punks and scared little men, it's almost an admission of failure. The Patriot act says to me we've failed with our way of life, we give up, we're gonna let go of what's important to us, we're gonna let those who would challenge our way of life win.



    Battlestar Galactica kicked V's ass.
  • Reply 20 of 24
    der kopfder kopf Posts: 2,275member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by trick fall

    The Patriot act is an act of pussies, punks and scared little men, it's almost an admission of failure. The Patriot act says to me we've failed with our way of life, we give up, we're gonna let go of what's important to us, we're gonna let those who would challenge our way of life win.



    Strong words, but they are not out of place in any discussion of the silently passed Patriot Act.



    Quote:

    Battlestar Galactica kicked V's ass.



    I second that without any problem.
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