Apple Towson union files labor complaint against Apple over withholding benefits

AppleInsider

Apple's first unionized retail location in the U.S. has filed a labor complaint against the tech giant, accusing the company of unfairly withholding health and education benefits from members.

Apple Towson Town Center

In October, IAM-CORE sent a letter to Tim Cook, stating that they were disappointed to learn that Apple withheld information about new health and education benefits that would be made available to non-union employees next year.

The union has now filed an Unfair Labor Practice with the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) for excluding its members from the benefits.

"Our union will fight to ensure all labor laws are followed throughout this negotiation process," said IAM Eastern Territory General Vice President David Sullivan in a statement.

"One of the reasons the employees in Towson joined the IAM was because they knew our union would use every resource to protect them. We are hopeful that this won't be the normal procedure before we sit with Apple at the negotiating table. Our members in Towson want to be heard in the workplace, and securing a first contract will be the first step towards achieving that goal."

In June, the NLRB certified the union election. It came to be known as the Coalition of Organized Retail Employees (CORE) and is partnered with the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers.

Apple claimed that it would not challenge the vote and that it would plan to bargain with workers at the store "in good faith."

Read on AppleInsider

lkrupp

If the union wants those benefits let them ‘negotiate’ for them. Otherwise bugger off.

sflocal

This is ridiculous.  They want to be in a union because they feel they're being treated unfairly.  They negotiate for their benefits and no whine and complain like spoiled brats when non-union employees get different benefits?  Will you complain when non-union employees get WORSE benefits than union employees then?  Cry me a river.

You want to be in a union, go right ahead.  Know that everything you receive has to be negotiated, agreed, and carved into stone until the expiration down the road requires the NEXT round of negations happens down the road. 

I have to wonder if articles like these are just meant to troll Apple and rile people up.

sbdude

Apparently the unionizers didn't understand what a union is or how it works. You signed a contract, now live with it. Can't wait for the NLRB to tell them exactly that.

mikethemartian

sbdude said:

Apparently the unionizers didn't understand what a union is or how it works. You signed a contract, now live with it. Can't wait for the NLRB to tell them exactly that.

They haven’t negotiated a contract with Apple yet.

teejay2012

I had read one of  the union demands was to provide pet insurance. If not true, still believable LOL

I agree with others that the union needs to negotiate during contract talks. That is how it works.

chadbag

mikethemartian said:

sbdude said:

Apparently the unionizers didn't understand what a union is or how it works. You signed a contract, now live with it. Can't wait for the NLRB to tell them exactly that.

They haven’t negotiated a contract with Apple yet.

Maybe they should negotiate then.  That is part of the deal.  

red oak

Your in a union now.  You need to negotiate for every benefit with Apple.   And, at the end of the day, you might not get it 

Congrats on unionizing!! ! 

JFC_PA

So none of the “geniuses” are familiar with the definition of “negotiation”. I blame the T-shirt’s. 

DAalseth

While I agree, if you’re in a union, then you have to negotiate and get a contract to get any change in benefits. That’s how it works.

Buuuuuut

If the NLRB finds that Apple was giving non unionized workers benefits that they were not offering for the Union contract that could get them in hot water.
If the NLRB finds that Apple is offering substantially better pay and benefits to non Union workers doing the same job in an effort to get people to quit the Union, to bust it, that could get them in hot water.
If the NLRB finds that Apple is improving pay and benefits for non union workers, while delaying the start of negotiations, and/or not negotiating in good faith, that could get them in hot water.

It is up to the NLRB to see if there is a pattern here. Apple may have broken the law. Only time will tell.

headfull0wine

The problem I see brewing is every individual Apple Store seems to be negotiating they’re own contract. Each will have their own demands but each will also want whatever the other unions got. It’s going to become a mess real quick. 

Also, the individual stores’ unions will have very little power. If you’re going to do this, go big. At least by country. If I were Apple HR I would much rather negotiate once. And if I were a nationwide Apple union. I’d have a helluva lot more leverage. 

Madbum

Apple should just close that store. It’s one of the worst Apple stores in the east coast 

Madbum

DAalseth said:

While I agree, if you’re in a union, then you have to negotiate and get a contract to get any change in benefits. That’s how it works.

Buuuuuut

If the NLRB finds that Apple was giving non unionized workers benefits that they were not offering for the Union contract that could get them in hot water.
If the NLRB finds that Apple is offering substantially better pay and benefits to non Union workers doing the same job in an effort to get people to quit the Union, to bust it, that could get them in hot water.
If the NLRB finds that Apple is improving pay and benefits for non union workers, while delaying the start of negotiations, and/or not negotiating in good faith, that could get them in hot water.

It is up to the NLRB to see if there is a pattern here. Apple may have broken the law. Only time will tell.

You are clueless.

union is not  we will get everything you get and more. Are you joking?

it’s whatever the union can negotiate with the store, if no agreement, strike. Apple is free to offer non union employees anything they want and it’s up to the unions to negotiate that into next contract. There is not “ we want everything they got no matter what we agreed to”

Apple needs to just close that store and make an example of these idiots. Or let them strike. I can find them replacements at half the price at the local community college 

Madbum

Apple should just let them strike .

also legal actions means increased union dues next round.

Apple should fight them all the way until their union dries up. 

Let’s see how long the other members of Aero space machinist union will be willing to pay increased dues for the pure stupidity of this Towson store “how to use iPhone” store clerks

dewme

sflocal said:

This is ridiculous.  They want to be in a union because they feel they're being treated unfairly.  They negotiate for their benefits and no whine and complain like spoiled brats when non-union employees get different benefits?  Will you complain when non-union employees get WORSE benefits than union employees then?  Cry me a river.

You want to be in a union, go right ahead.  Know that everything you receive has to be negotiated, agreed, and carved into stone until the expiration down the road requires the NEXT round of negations happens down the road. 

I have to wonder if articles like these are just meant to troll Apple and rile people up.

Congrats on post no. 6000.

Very good question regarding "trolling." I don't think anyone's trolling anyone. This is a legitimate Apple-related topic. I guess what we should really be asking is whether anyone really cares about Apple's relationship with one of it's budding labor unions, one that's still struggling trying to find its real purpose and operational strategy?

At this point in time this particular store's union has no impact on Apple's profitability, ability to produce products for sale in a timely manner, or market value. Until they have the ability to give pause to investors and shareholders they don't have a whole lot of bargaining power. Sometimes it seems like everyone and his brother has a grievance against Apple and responds to it by flopping around like a fish out of water in front of the media. But nobody blinks because making noise and small-time media-focused complaining isn't a bargaining strategy, it's background noise and we already have way more of that than we can handle. 

What does scare investors and get Apple to make changes is when a coalition with clout, like the EU, forms around the desire to make Apple respond to their needs. They aren't flopping around on the sidewalk, they are quietly plotting their strategy on their side. They wield power through the size and scope of their coalition and with strategic focus. One or two unionized Apple stores is not going to make a difference. If they want clout they should be focused on building their coalition and getting more stores to join in, not picking fights with Apple over every little thing.

They basically need to get their shit together on their own side before they start picking fights they can't win, or trying to go after small picture wins. Once they get their own affairs in order and have real clout and know what they really want, the big picture stuff, then they can take on the other side - if that's even necessary. Right now they seem like the proverbial dog that barks and chases a car and actually catches the car. Okay, what are you as a 40 lb dog going to be able to do with that 4500 lb car? Not much.

My answer to the question of whether I care about this so-called "union dispute" is no, not really, and not yet. As long as they are one 40 lb dog that doesn't really know what it wants other than barking and chasing, it doesn't even register as noise. I know they care, but until they get us as Apple stakeholders to care, it's just one more helping of meh.

docno42

Bought my 2015 MBP in that store - I wonder if the rest of the mall even has 50% occupancy these days.  Or if the store is in that same mall.

DAalseth

headfull0wine said:

The problem I see brewing is every individual Apple Store seems to be negotiating they’re own contract. Each will have their own demands but each will also want whatever the other unions got. It’s going to become a mess real quick. 

Also, the individual stores’ unions will have very little power. If you’re going to do this, go big. At least by country. If I were Apple HR I would much rather negotiate once. And if I were a nationwide Apple union. I’d have a helluva lot more leverage. 

This is why big companies like Ford and GM negotiate with the union for one contract company wide. Way way back each plant was trying to do that and it WAS a mess. Right now there’s only a few unionized Apple stores. If it becomes widespread, then they will have to do something like that. 

davidw

DAalseth said:

While I agree, if you’re in a union, then you have to negotiate and get a contract to get any change in benefits. That’s how it works.

Buuuuuut

If the NLRB finds that Apple was giving non unionized workers benefits that they were not offering for the Union contract that could get them in hot water.
If the NLRB finds that Apple is offering substantially better pay and benefits to non Union workers doing the same job in an effort to get people to quit the Union, to bust it, that could get them in hot water.
If the NLRB finds that Apple is improving pay and benefits for non union workers, while delaying the start of negotiations, and/or not negotiating in good faith, that could get them in hot water.

It is up to the NLRB to see if there is a pattern here. Apple may have broken the law. Only time will tell.

False, right now non union employees working in San Francisco is getting paid more than other areas because of the much higher cost of living in the Bay Area and higher minimum wage laws. Apple is under no obligation to pay union employees of Apple Stores in areas with a much lower cost of living and minimum wage, the same as those non union employees in SF. Apple do not have to offer union employees the same pay as non union employees (for doing the same job.). Union employees wages and benefits are negotiated with the union contract. Right now, the pay for doing the same job in an Apple Store varies by State and cities because of the varying cost of living and minimum wage laws. In SF, CA, the minimum wage is $16.99/hr and in Towson, MD, it's $12.50/hr. Apple do not have to pay the union employees in Towson Apple Store a minimum of $16.99/hr, just because non union Apple Store employees in SF, are getting at least that.

The only time i can think of of it being against labor laws, to pay non union employees more than union employees, is when it's an "open shop". In an "open shop", the union represents all employees but the employees are not required to join the union or pay union dues (in order to work there and receive all union negotiated benefits). Here, the employer can not pay non-union employees  more than union members, as the employer has an agreement to have non union employees under the same contract as the union employees. This would be a case of union busting, if the employer started offering non union employees more benefits. Right now, the Towson Store union do not represent all Apple employees, regardless if they are non union employees and the union have no say in what Apple offers them in benefits. But the union can negotiate for those benefits, regardless if Apple offers them of not. The union is under no obligation to only negotiate for benefits that Apple only offers at the bargaining table.   

You have to remember who the NLRB really represents. They represent the employees and their rights to organize and bargain for better benefits, with or without a union. The fact that Apple employees were able to receive better benefits without a union, in not against any policy set by the NLRB. Even if it might amount to bribing employees to not join a union. It would only be against NLRB policy if Apple were to coerce employees by reducing benefits or use threat of termination, if they were organizing to fight for better benefits or to form or join a union. If employees can get better benefits by not having to join a union and pay union dues, all the better for the employees, as far as the NLBR is concern. And as far as the NLBR is concern, the union employees can negotiate for those extra benefit offered to non union employees, regardless if Apple offers them or not. So long as Apple negotiate in good faith. 

https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/your-rights

DAalseth

davidw said:

DAalseth said:

While I agree, if you’re in a union, then you have to negotiate and get a contract to get any change in benefits. That’s how it works.

Buuuuuut

If the NLRB finds that Apple was giving non unionized workers benefits that they were not offering for the Union contract that could get them in hot water.
If the NLRB finds that Apple is offering substantially better pay and benefits to non Union workers doing the same job in an effort to get people to quit the Union, to bust it, that could get them in hot water.
If the NLRB finds that Apple is improving pay and benefits for non union workers, while delaying the start of negotiations, and/or not negotiating in good faith, that could get them in hot water.

It is up to the NLRB to see if there is a pattern here. Apple may have broken the law. Only time will tell.

False, right now non union employees working in San Francisco is getting paid more than other areas because of the much higher cost of living in the Bay Area and higher minimum wage laws. Apple is under no obligation to pay union employees of Apple Stores in areas with a much lower cost of living and minimum wage, the same as those non union employees in SF. Apple do not have to offer union employees the same pay as non union employees (for doing the same job.). Union employees wages and benefits are negotiated with the union contract. Right now, the pay for doing the same job in an Apple Store varies by State and cities because of the varying cost of living and minimum wage laws. In SF, CA, the minimum wage is $16.99/hr and in Towson, MD, it's $12.50/hr. Apple do not have to pay the union employees in Towson Apple Store a minimum of $16.99/hr, just because non union Apple Store employees in SF, are getting at least that.

The only time i can think of of it being against labor laws, to pay non union employees more than union employees, is when it's an "open shop". In an "open shop", the union represents all employees but the employees are not required to join the union or pay union dues (in order to work there and receive all union negotiated benefits). Here, the employer can not pay non-union employees  more than union members, as the employer has an agreement to have non union employees under the same contract as the union employees. This would be a case of union busting, if the employer started offering non union employees more benefits. Right now, the Towson Store union do not represent all Apple employees, regardless if they are non union employees and the union have no say in what Apple offers them in benefits. But the union can negotiate for those benefits, regardless if Apple offers them of not. The union is under no obligation to only negotiate for benefits that Apple only offers at the bargaining table.   

You have to remember who the NLRB really represents. They represent the employees and their rights to organize and bargain for better benefits, with or without a union. The fact that Apple employees were able to receive better benefits without a union, in not against any policy set by the NLRB. Even if it might amount to bribing employees to not join a union. It would only be against NLRB policy if Apple were to coerce employees by reducing benefits or use threat of termination, if they were organizing to fight for better benefits or to form or join a union. If employees can get better benefits by not having to join a union and pay union dues, all the better for the employees, as far as the NLBR is concern. And as far as the NLBR is concern, the union employees can negotiate for those extra benefit offered to non union employees, regardless if Apple offers them or not. So long as Apple negotiate in good faith. 

https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/your-rights

You apparently missed where I said IF THE NLRB FINDS THAT…. in front of each line. It is not up to you or I to decide. the NLRB will carry out the investigation. 
Plus the complaint would not necessarily be comparing to the Apple Stores in SF. If there is another Apple Store in the same area that is getting better wages and benefits but is non Union, that would be the comparison. This would be especially true if those increases were not on the negotiating table. Once again neither you nor I know what has been offered, or even if Apple has started negotiating. 

You did point out one good thing: So long as Apple negotiates in good faith. I suspect that is one of the things the NLRB is looking at. 

mikethemartian

chadbag said:

mikethemartian said:

sbdude said:

Apparently the unionizers didn't understand what a union is or how it works. You signed a contract, now live with it. Can't wait for the NLRB to tell them exactly that.

They haven’t negotiated a contract with Apple yet.

Maybe they should negotiate then.  That is part of the deal.  

Obviously they will when they are ready.

mikethemartian

teejay2012 said:

I had read one of  the union demands was to provide pet insurance. If not true, still believable LOL

I agree with others that the union needs to negotiate during contract talks. That is how it works.

I was a contractor at an engineering company years ago and that was one of the benefits they were considering offering their regular employees.