Goddamned culture....
Please forgive this rant, but I'm sort of dealing with a 20-something life crisis. (Feel free to rant about your own experiences as well).
My family is devoutly Muslim. I'm not. I've had a girlfriend for 7 years, all without their knowing about it. 2 months ago, I decided it was time to tell them about her since we were talking about getting married. Her family is Chinese, but they're ok with me and all of this. My family took the news pretty hard, but they seemed to be ok with it after some massive hand-wringing and Medittereanean-style emotionality. Of course, that was then. This is now. We're now trying to figure out the details of our marriage - contracts and such - and my parents are beginning to be somewhat oppostional about somethings.
They've become sort of suspicious of my fiancee and her intentions because she hadn't called them to see how they were and whatnot. Of course, it's not her fault - I never asked her to call them. So tonight I asked her to and she did. Then my parents launched into a tirade about "we need to be a family" blah blah blah. She was shocked and somewhat taken aback. Agghhh!!! This is driving me crazy.
Anyway, a lot of the problems that are coming up are just related to cultural differences in the way Muslim/Mid-Eastern families do things and the expectations they have about what should or shouldn't be done in this type of process. I'm stuck in the middle trying to negotiate between her family and my family - all the while, attempting to mitigate some of the emotionality my family expresses because of the HUGE cultural differences in emotional expression. But, I'm afraid, I've lost control of the situation. My fiancee's first conversation with my parents have left her somewhat concerned that they blame her for my past 7 years of poor relations with my family. How do I deal with this????
I guess I just wish culture would go away. That, along with the abolition of organized religion and the Republican party (
) would go a long way towards solving the world's problems.
Has anyone else (un)successfully straddled the cultural divide? Help. Please.
edit: wow, I had a hard time spelling there...
My family is devoutly Muslim. I'm not. I've had a girlfriend for 7 years, all without their knowing about it. 2 months ago, I decided it was time to tell them about her since we were talking about getting married. Her family is Chinese, but they're ok with me and all of this. My family took the news pretty hard, but they seemed to be ok with it after some massive hand-wringing and Medittereanean-style emotionality. Of course, that was then. This is now. We're now trying to figure out the details of our marriage - contracts and such - and my parents are beginning to be somewhat oppostional about somethings.
They've become sort of suspicious of my fiancee and her intentions because she hadn't called them to see how they were and whatnot. Of course, it's not her fault - I never asked her to call them. So tonight I asked her to and she did. Then my parents launched into a tirade about "we need to be a family" blah blah blah. She was shocked and somewhat taken aback. Agghhh!!! This is driving me crazy.
Anyway, a lot of the problems that are coming up are just related to cultural differences in the way Muslim/Mid-Eastern families do things and the expectations they have about what should or shouldn't be done in this type of process. I'm stuck in the middle trying to negotiate between her family and my family - all the while, attempting to mitigate some of the emotionality my family expresses because of the HUGE cultural differences in emotional expression. But, I'm afraid, I've lost control of the situation. My fiancee's first conversation with my parents have left her somewhat concerned that they blame her for my past 7 years of poor relations with my family. How do I deal with this????
I guess I just wish culture would go away. That, along with the abolition of organized religion and the Republican party (
) would go a long way towards solving the world's problems. Has anyone else (un)successfully straddled the cultural divide? Help. Please.
edit: wow, I had a hard time spelling there...
Comments
My gf and I have also been together over 7 years. I am white (raised Catholic, but not super devout). She is Sinhalese (from Sri Lanka, that little island country off the coast of India). She has lived her most of her life (her folks came here for school, and ended up becoming citizens). In our case, I kept myself a secret from HER parents, because her dad was so gung ho about her marrying within the culture. She and I met in undergrad, and currently she is still in grad school. I go out periodically to visit her, but I always went in secret. Her dad kind of sussed me out when we were in undergrad (I met them briefly a few times as "a friend" but not "the boyfriend").
They know we are still together...and her mom is actually really nice to me. Her dad is just suspicious (as dads often are). I feel where you are coming from man. My parents used to always ask why she never visited, etc. Finally I got them to understand that we just didn't feel like riling her dad at the time. When she calls me when I am at my parent's house she always talks to my mom, and my parents like her a lot. I think they just are worried about potential fallout with her dad.
This is just my opinion, but encourage your fiancee to talk to your folks more socially. Let them get to KNOW her. Right now, you're planning a wedding, and that means stress and financial obligations and so on. And these are the conditions under which your family is getting to know her, so that makes it hard for them AND her. At the end of the day, I'm pretty sure your parents just want you to be happy
And congrats on your engagement. Don't let worry about everyone else's issues ruin you two's happiness.
"And there's ____ long-time girlfriend Stacey. ____ and Stacey have been together for 11 years now, their latest child being their third."
I agree though: culture (ESPECIALLY religious culture) is the root cause of not only a lot of bloodshed, but a lot of good ole fashioned home-grown headaches. Our understanding of God and creation and all the rest is so pitifully unsubstantial that it gauls me no end to watch people let it run their lives day in and day out.
You gotta break free from the man, maaan!
Anyway the closest thing I can think of is my friends the Chinese/American Mexican couple. After 8 years of marriage they are just getting to like her. So ... it takes a while.
nothin' nothin' here's what I think you should do.
Prepare your chick for your family every way you can think of. Tell her everything she needs to know to understand them. Do the same for your family.
You need to introduce these "two" so they can get to know each other. Start off small. You, her, your parents in a neutral setting. Go out to eat at a place your parents choose. Repeat repeat step up repeat repeat step up repeat repeat. Before you know it your wife will be cooking with your mother for major holidays. This will take months and months and .... Your parents have known you your whole life and this girl almost not at all.
YOU need to smooth things over with your parents. It was WRONG of you to keep this from them for so long. You know how important this is for them so keeping it from them is hurtful in a way. You have to be very understanding of their position. Ask them what they expect from you and her as a couple and individually. No more phone confusion.
You need to apologize to your girl for this. You put her in a very though spot. No fair!
The above advice may not be in order. HTH
they're married now, but from day one his parents have, and still do, refer to her as "little evil"
Originally posted by alcimedes
lol, one of my asian friends starting dating a white girl.
they're married now, but from day one his parents have, and still do, refer to her as "little evil"
Isn't it lovely how parents support a marriage to make sure it's successful
Welcome to marriage. It just takes patience.
Nice drive from "open-minded" stright back over to "judgmental jerk". Respectfully, shove that sentiment up your @ss...I have a lot of extremely liberal friends, and that is the kind of sh!t I had to take for months when I got married. There's no reason to reverse discriminate.
Ahem.
On the issue at hand--very hard. I'd have some involved heart-to-heart talks with your parents, w/o the girlfriend for starters, so you can make clear how you didn't tell them for 7 years and build a framework of trust with them. If they realize your committment to the relationship and your inisistence that they accept your girlfriend they will, hopefully, come around in time. The burden will be on you to make it happen, whether that is fair or not.
Note that this is no guarantee--some people can be impossible, especially relatives. But I hope it goes well.
Req' AI Forum Disclaimer: Unless your other is an abusive jerk/bitch.
Originally posted by Scott
As a married man I can tell you that marriage is definitely not for the weak. Staying single and/or getting divorced is for the weak.
Req' AI Forum Disclaimer: Unless your other is an abusive jerk/bitch.
I agree with you, even i would not say that divorce is for the weak, i'd rather say that you need to be strong in order to make your marriage work.
Torrifile :
The important in your wedding, is you and your wife. Don't ask her to communicate directly with your family, it's your job. Parents can be ass-holes for this sort of thing.
You marry a wife (or an husband), you don't marry a family. This is a very important point. The link between a son and a family are very strong, and thus difficult to break, the link between your fiance and you are more tight and thus you must take care of them.
Be nice to your family, but do it your way. Time will work for you, and more your future child will do. In order to see their little childs, grand parents have the obligation to be nice with their child in law.
So don't bother , all this shit is temporary.
That's a nice sentiment.
My wife was given constant grief about me if for no other reason than it was their baby girl and they weren't ready for her to move on to the next part of her life which of course means they had to move on to the next role of theirs. I assure you that when it is your time you will be a little slow on the draw as well. The same love that kept them from bashing in your whining skull is the same love that is making them overprotective here.
You do understand that the marriage vows, where they say a child leaves the parents and cleave to one another, if it is truly taken seriously means a real role change for the parents. When you have someone you have brought into existance, held when they were small enough to fit along your forearm, tell you that this new person they know nothing about is going to be their partner, going to assume their role, going to take their place, and that their job is done, it isn't always easy for them.
Even if you think, yes but they are an adult now and their parents should already understand that, well there are still many ways we all lean on our parents until we truly have a committed partner. A daughter knows (with good parents at least) that if her car were broken and she called at 3 am from an hour away, that her daddy will always come get his daughter. He will jump in his car and protect his little girl.
Now that little girl is saying, Dad, this new man is going to be the one who does that. He will be the one getting the call. A Dad's love says, "Are you sure?"
That change is so hard for them. To say, you don't have to protect your little girl any more, I will. Can you think of a father that could give up that protection so easily?
Tori, I would ask you to understand that your parents are trying to see how this girl is going to replace what they have always done for you. They have to understand it with less infomation because they cannot see her and think, well she would do what I do. In many ways, logically and lovingly, I am sure she would act exactly as they would. However we aren't talking about logic, we are talking about the love of a parent.
I would also ask you to point that finger at yourself for a bit. Being a parent and a teacher I can assure that the most rational and reasoned person I know loses the battle when it comes down to their own children. Have you thought about how you want your own children with this woman to be raised?
It easy to be so tolerate and understanding now. How about when you are married and that "family" moves in down the street. Geesh they seem to be a bit amoral. Where the heck did that innocent son of yours learn that new word he seems to be so found of? From your own mouth, oh never. It is that terrible, dirty, nasty child down the street. Where can I take my child so they see and learn from examples like I knew. My beautiful innocent daughter. She is nine going on 20. Why does she want a bra already. My goodness she wants hoop earrings like all the Puerto Rican girls have on. Look at how their sisters dress and my clean innocent daughter wants to emulate them. She goes to their houses and sees this. Men will want to touch her, they will want to know her... they will want to take my job!! Where can I take her and have her realize that a man leering at her doesn't mean he loves her. It doesn't mean he would drive a hundred miles to insure she is safe at 3 am. It doesn't mean he would protect my little girl!
People are amazing. We all become our parents in some ways whether you realize it or not. We are all like giant tape recorders and when we are most afraid, when we want to insure our most treasured possessions are protected, we rewind that tape and the voice we hear as our own suddenly sounds a lot like theirs. Young people who haven't been to a church/mosque in a decade suddenly want their child to have the same roots and influences they had. You want the same institutions that you felt formed, protected and nutured you to help do the same for them.
I would ask you to check your own tape recorder (or TIVO if I am just too darn old) to see if you are as tolerant as you believe. What about if your child fell out of a tree, and hit his head? When you are sitting there with the tears hitting your cheeks and realizing that you have no control over this big blue ball and the ride we are all taking on it, you might find yourself reaching out. Are the things you are going to reach out for the same as her? Will you be as tolerant when your precious gem of a child is broken and those darn doctors aren't fixing him fast enough! Will you be upset when she doesn't reach out for the same things you do?
Life is a funny thing and the finger you point comes back to you far too soon. The sayings you swore you would never use come spilling out of your own mouth so quickly. The children who looked up at you with unconditional love, with pure joy and admiration suddenly find you so small, so limited, and so backward compared to how they view the world.
It will be your turn soon enough, so at least make sure your tape recorder matches hers. Will you be so tolerant when she doesn't say the same prayers over your sick child? When she doesn't do what your mother does to break a fever, it is 3 am and this shivering, crying baby has a temperature of 102 and you are out of your mind with fear and doubt will you be so tolerant then?
Obviously the reverse is true as well. Will she be so understanding when you don't do exactly what her father did for her?
Nick
Originally posted by Moogs
I agree though: culture (ESPECIALLY religious culture) is the root cause of not only a lot of bloodshed, but a lot of good ole fashioned home-grown headaches. Our understanding of God and creation and all the rest is so pitifully unsubstantial that it gauls me no end to watch people let it run their lives day in and day out.
You gotta break free from the man, maaan!
HAHA, this is the most common religious lie I read on the internet. Perhaps I'm going through a charitable phase but I'm not even inclined to put it down to stupidity, there's a slight of intellect about it, it's kinda close to something true, maybe very close, and that's why people keep repeating it, but you would be much more accurate if you said: the root cause of bloodshed and headache, and heart-ache, is the root cause of religion.
Religion really, really, doesn't cause these problems, it is a symptom of them. That's the simplest way I can put it if you want to use a vocab that suggests disease, and you wouldn't be out of order if you did.
Just remember, "...no religion too..." is a nice poetic sentiment, but it ignores some basic psychology and history.
Originally posted by alcimedes
lol, one of my asian friends starting dating a white girl.
Asian guy with a white girl? Is that even possible!?
Actually, I guess my two uncles married white women, so...
One thing about Asian men marrying white women...the hapa children aren't nearly as attractive as those from Asian mothers and white fathers...EVER.
Thanks for your reasoned response. I guess I've been a little to emotional myself in this situation and it's been hard to be objective. Everyone here is right in saying that I should have said something earlier and that I need to be the one who's somewhat emotionally detached from the situation. But it's hard. I have a hard time believing that my parents would react the same way if my fiancee was from the same cultural background as my family and that's what makes it that much harder to stomach. I'm working on being less upset by my parents' hang-ups. I think that I can deal with it, if it were just me. But my fiancee is catching some of the heat and that's what bothering me.
I guess what I'm hearing is that I just need to be patient and understanding; two things that I do in my day job, but tend to fail me when I'm not on the clock, as it were. I'll work on it.
-t
But seriously, I'm a real big "it's your life, your marriage, your happiness, your path, etc.". I'm so glad my family is so cool and nonchalant (okay, not overly religious or tied to any sort of ethnic or cultural "rules") and stuff like this has never really popped up in my life.
I could've brought anyone home to my parents and as long as they were a thoughtful, smart and kind person, they were cool with who I chose to spend time with.
It just so happens that they've adore anyone I've ever been serious with.
Back to my first sentence...it's true. I learned - not in a disrespectful, rude, selfish or smart-alecky way - that when you try and live your life to the expectations of friends and family (having kids so you parents can be grandparents, keeping up with the Jones', etc.), it's usually a horrible, horrible mistake and a bad way to zing through your allotted 60-80 years on this planet.
It's no accident that all the people I know who are living their lives to please everyone else around them are completely miserable and at their wits' end.
NOT that you should be a self-centered, "it's all about ME" butthole because that isn't cool either. But there's a really nice middle ground, I believe.
Paul's Life Tip for the Day. Tune in next Monday...
Kerala, South India, by way of Blackheath, East London (Hindu.)
Israel, Sephardi (Jewish.)
My current girlfriend:
American, from Hertford CT "the insurance capital of the world." (Mammon/Catholic.)
I have an UNERRING instinct for interfamilal strife, although the father of the first girl, in typical 'hadn't you better be married soon?' style, eventually even suggested me as a marriage partner and his one caveat was "yes, I know he's bald" rather than anything racial or religious. None of them objected to me once they'd met me (I have yet to meet my current girlfriend's parents).
My situation is undoubtedly less serious than yours because my parents do not give a stuff who I go out with as long as I'm happy, and all of my important relationships have been with girls who have already tested the patience of their parents to the absolute limit. So I won't patronise you by offering advice. My parents live abroad and would welcome me marrying anyone rather than an estate agent or the children of Donald Rumsfeld (you think I'm anti-American. Cripes, you don't know my Dad.)
Anyway. It's all nonsense.
Originally posted by Scott
[B]Staying single and/or getting divorced is for the weak.
Hey! Careful who you insult here.
Originally posted by mrmister
"Marriage is for the weak "
Nice drive from "open-minded" stright back over to "judgmental jerk". Respectfully, shove that sentiment up your @ss...I have a lot of extremely liberal friends, and that is the kind of sh!t I had to take for months when I got married. There's no reason to reverse discriminate.
Holy SHIT. Take a vallium already, OK? What are you referring to with your "nice drive" comment anyway?
Maybe you are incapable of discerning obvious sarcasm when you read it (the smilies might've been your first clue i was [not] slamming married people), but I wasn't discriminating against anyone. OBVIOUSLY, a successful marriage requires STRENGTH. I was just trying to interject some humor into the discussion.
Since I myself have never married someone from another culture, it's hard for me to give direct advice, so I added humor. Sue me if you don't like it. PS - I may or may not be a jerk depending on who you ask, but I'm NOT a liberal-leaning guy [politically speaking].