And you thought Fran had it bad, check this out!
The past few days I've been following John Manzione's PB17 crisis on www.Macnet2.com.
I'm inclined to believe his claims that an improperly seated hinge/latch/screen, which he commented on upon its arrival caused the screen to crack.
Apple, naturally, doesn't believe him. Actually, according to Manzione, they might believe him, but basically refuse to repair any cracked LCD (I think it's probably because it's impossible to tell the difference between accidental damage and damage resulting from manufacturing errors -- which would be rare to begine with)
Some think Manzione is using his web site to get free (uncovered) repairs. I dunno about that. Manzione has actually published in print for some time, although knowing what those people are like, that doesn't necessarily lend him more credence. haha
In any event, a bit of a feud has erupted, with Apple doing a little talking about Mr Manzione, and Mr Manzione doing a whole lotta yelling.
I gotta say that it's a pleasant overall change from the initial Apple linguo-anal cleaning excercises with which his site started off. It originally had a childish obsession with praising Apple and a NO-criticism clause in their forum registration. Basically, the site started off stupidly, but has been getting better.
What's interesting now is that according to Manzione, someone at Apple has damaged his book to make it look like the cracked screen was the result of his own mistreatment. However, he did post pictures before he sent the book in for repair, and none of the damage was there in those pics. I'm inclined to believe Manzione, though it can't be proved either way.
what is interesting, and we've seen ample evidence of this before, is that Apple has a nearly cult like obsession with stamping critics out of the mac web once and for all.
Scary stuff... go check it out.
I'm inclined to believe his claims that an improperly seated hinge/latch/screen, which he commented on upon its arrival caused the screen to crack.
Apple, naturally, doesn't believe him. Actually, according to Manzione, they might believe him, but basically refuse to repair any cracked LCD (I think it's probably because it's impossible to tell the difference between accidental damage and damage resulting from manufacturing errors -- which would be rare to begine with)
Some think Manzione is using his web site to get free (uncovered) repairs. I dunno about that. Manzione has actually published in print for some time, although knowing what those people are like, that doesn't necessarily lend him more credence. haha
In any event, a bit of a feud has erupted, with Apple doing a little talking about Mr Manzione, and Mr Manzione doing a whole lotta yelling.
I gotta say that it's a pleasant overall change from the initial Apple linguo-anal cleaning excercises with which his site started off. It originally had a childish obsession with praising Apple and a NO-criticism clause in their forum registration. Basically, the site started off stupidly, but has been getting better.
What's interesting now is that according to Manzione, someone at Apple has damaged his book to make it look like the cracked screen was the result of his own mistreatment. However, he did post pictures before he sent the book in for repair, and none of the damage was there in those pics. I'm inclined to believe Manzione, though it can't be proved either way.
what is interesting, and we've seen ample evidence of this before, is that Apple has a nearly cult like obsession with stamping critics out of the mac web once and for all.
Scary stuff... go check it out.
Comments
[Fixed. -Amorph]
posted by some one at the macnetv2 site
My friend has decided to refrain from posting here, he just doesn?t want to lose his job. He told me most of the stuff he would have written so I will do the best I can to relay that information myself. Please do not give anyone my IP address, and remember this information has passed from my friend to me, I don?t have first-hand knowledge about this. I think John will recognize some of it and know that what I am writing is true.
Apple customer service has a rating system for its consumer customers. John is considered a consumer customer at Apple, not a business, because most of John?s hardware is registered in his name, not his company.
My friend works in Texas but some customer reps do not. All of the information my friend relayed to me was gathered by looking at his file and making some inquiries to other friends of his at Apple, not all of them in Texas.
Customers are rated with regard to their own level of skill, novice, skilled, expert, etc. But there are also some code words used to inform customer reps who?s on the other end of the phone line. For instance, say you call Apple constantly, asking them how to set up your email, your browser preferences, or even how to use AppleWorks. Your records will reflect that you are a novice, but it will also reflect that you are a nuisance. Although the rep sees every call you ever made he has this information so he doesn?t have to read all the notes in your file. When he sees that you are a nuisance caller he adjusts his tone and method of helping you. He tries to make it a point that you should be reading online about your problem and not calling Apple, even though it?s your right to do so.
If you happen to be a consumer with several Macs you are given another rating. If you have more than your share of problems you are given another rating. If these problems are small ones you are given yet another rating, if your problems are big ones, yet another. You get the idea. The notes are often too long to read by the rep on the phone so Apple devised a system that tell the rep how to deal with you.
For a long time John was rated as an expert consumer, someone who knows what he?s talking about, so often the reps would bypass a lot of the steps in solving a problem. Stuff like zapping the parameter RAM, dumb things like that. They know it?s a waste of time.
According to Apple records John?s first G4 PowerBook was the 400Mhz. His first problem was the loose battery issue. Apple repaired it by replacing the battery. Modifications were made to the battery that allowed it to sit more firmly.
Apple?s records show that John registered several G4 PowerBooks. Almost everyone had a problem of one sort of another. Each problem was verified to be real problems and all of them were taken care of, for a while.
John was soon rated a problem customer and he was dealt with as a ?suspicious? customer. John was never upgraded and he never asked to be upgraded. I mean John never asked to have a PowerBook replaced by a newer one. The records do show that John wanted his Gforce 4 MX card replaced with another card, but that was denied. My friend and his co-workers wanted to tell customers that the card was fine and all it needed was a good firmware upgrade, but they were told to tell customers their problem was not a problem. Anyway, John?s third Tower had the same problem but he chose not to take another one, even though it was offered. According to the records, it was John who told Executive Relations to close the case. He also had a problem with his 22? cinema display and refused to have it fixed because he didn?t want to be without it. The Executive Relations person in charge wanted to have it fixed and John kept refusing and again asked that the case on it be closed. ?Closed by customer request?
Back to the PowerBooks though. Ask any Apple repair tech and he or she will tell you that the Titanium PowerBook was always problematic. The best one produced is the current one, the 1Ghz with the improved logic board and the better paint. But there are video problems with some of these.
According to the records John called Apple and told them his sound out port was not working on his 1Ghz PowerBook. It was sent in for repair but because of his rating his repair wasn?t covered. He was told that he yanked out a headphone jack too hard, thus it was his problem. John denied doing this. He was also informed that the case was cracked around the PC slot, but my friend said just the paint was cracked, but Apple told him that it would be more than $600 to replace the case. He declined and the case was closed. John denied that the case was cracked when it came in. My friend says that the number of things that happen to a PowerBook while it?s in repair would scare the hell our of anyone. He thinks it?s a good idea to video tape yourself packing up the computer than handing it to Airborne Express and video taping the delivery back to you. How?s that for confidence in Apple??
In a matter of weeks John called back reporting video problems. According to John his screen would flicker. Again it as sent to Texas where it was discovered that the video was a real problem and the logic board was replaced under warranty.
John contacted Executive Relations again during this time and complained. He was then designated as someone to play hardball with. In other words, my friend said AppleCare was basically useless for John because future problems would be deemed his fault no matter what.
The records show that when John called Apple about his shattered screen it was sent to another level of support immediately. He was told flat out that the warranty would not cover the screen, that it was obviously his fault. My friend says that he and several other people there think that there is no way to dismiss his claim without seeing it, but because it was John it was made clear to him that he was out of luck. According to the notes John didn?t argue about it, he asked how much it would be to get fixed. He didn?t commit to getting it fixed. He didn?t insist on elevating the problem either.
Nobody knows why, but Robin Roberts called John and asked that the PowerBook be picked up and sent to Cupertino. The records do not show him calling or writing anyone at Apple. He suspects that someone pointed out John?s column to customer relations and it was handed to Robin.
Robin?s notes indicate that she wanted to resolve the issue and John was amicable. It was sent to Cupertino and two days later notes appeared in his file that indicated there was a single scratch on the lower part of the PowerBook, a few scratches on the bezel and latch and a bit of chocolate on outside of the computer, near the pc slot. Although John says Robin didn?t base her decision on this, she did. John?s PowerBook was not to be covered, not now, not in the future. Robin?s notes make mention about John saying his credit card company was going to reimburse him for the cost and he wanted to get it fixed. Robin indicates that the PowerBook was to be sent back the next morning. But my friend found out it was not, it was held two more days without Robin?s knowledge.
Another interesting thing, and something John reported, was that John did place a call to Apple and reported the screen shattered to a new Tech support person. Bumped up a level, the person wrote it up as a covered repair until he saw the notes. John says the guy said something like ?if it were a 15? screen we would cover it?. Well, that?s not exactly true. The rep was acting as he would with any customer with this problem and as he was filling out the forms he came across the note that said this PowerBook is not to be fixed under any circumstances. That?s when he changed his story and refused to have it fixed under John?s warranty.
My friend says that reading through John?s files is like reading a novel. He had an iPod die on him but refused to get it fixed and instead it says he was ?going to give it away?. And other than the Tower the only problems he?s had were the PowerBooks. My friend says that every single incident he?s had with the PowerBooks were things he sees everyday. Nothing indicates that John ever attempted to upgrade at the cost of Apple, nor does it show that he ever said anything like ?If you don?t fix this I will write about it?. But he is rated badly at Apple because he runs MacNET, buys a lot of hardware and has repeated problems with PowerBooks. Oh, it does say he had an iBook in for repair at the Apple Store and he called back 5 months later with the same problem and was told that the warranty on the part was 90 days. The notes say nothing about any bitching on John?s part.
My friend says that whenever someone like Bob Levitus, as an example, has a problem it?s fixed no questions asked. But Web publishers are looked at as potential problems because a lot of them are younger and are considered hobbyists trying to use their website as leverage.
My friend says most of the people he works with think the PowerBook screen broke due to a misalignment. They have seen several bad latches already and when one sticks and the screen is out of alignment any kind of pressure can shatter it. The place where the shatter begins tells him that it was a pressure break, while the lid was being lifted the glass was jolted a fraction more out of place, just enough to cause it to break.
My friend says that Apple is taking all this very seriously and everybody is reading this. They are praying it stays on the Mac web and a larger source doesn?t pick it up. They want it to go away but it?s really gone to far. The notes say that John is having the charges reversed. The guy named Patrick is the guy that gets all the hardball cases and he is now in charge of this case.
John has never sued Apple and never threatened to, according to the file. They don?t think he will sue in this case either, but they also know that John is telling the truth about the information being leaked because of the IP address of Wieland being posted. Oh, and there is a note that John emailed Robin twice, once telling her about the leaked information. According to my friend someone has been put in charge to find out who leaked it. So far there is nothing about the damage to the PowerBook and John has not called Apple about it. In fact, there is noting in the records about John calling Apple after his conversation with Robin. So John is not making any demands or threats, at least none are being entered in the file.
How will this all play out? I asked my friend and he thinks John will never be able to buy a new Mac and expect to be treated fairly. He says to think about this as like having a police record. He will never be believed, and Apple will never believe someone in Cupertino damaged his PowerBook, but people in Austin know for a fact that this happens. My friend has scratched a few Titanium?s while working on them and when he asked to replace the case his boss said no, blame it on the customer. My friend is the kind of guy that likes to go out of way to help people with PowerBook problems but he is not allowed to, his supervisor has to approve every piece of equipment he uses. He says it?s getting worse and worse.
That?s about it. I recommend that John either switch to a PC or have a friend by his hardware from now on, because he will never be treated right. Is it fair? No, of course not, but this isn?t about being fair. John is mad at Apple and Apple is mad at John. Both have a lot to lose, and Apple wants to this to made right, but have no idea how to proceed. Some people at Apple pray he moves to a PC. The worst part is that every problem John has had have been real ones, but because he writes about them instead of kissing a** like so many other writers they treat him different.
Some people in Texas hate John for what he?s doing and some applaud him. But no one will risk his job over it.
My friend says this ?If you watch the video you can see, as a person who works for Apple anway, that someone did a number of John?s computer while it was in Cupertino, and if I didn?t know better I?d swear it was Jobs himself.?
Pretty sad indictment on Apple.
It's 7:30 in the morning so please excuse the poor typing. John, I hope this doesn't piss you off that I posted this, I tried to be fair and I told the truth, how it was relayed to me anyway.
Michael
If this is true then Apple is setting themselves up for an enourmous class action law suit. This is frawed!
I have personally dealt with Manzione before as I also had the same G4 Tower screen flashing bug he mentions briefly. What he doesn't mention was that the bug was purely driver related and resolved. He also doesn't mention how he demanded a GeForce4 Ti out of it because he thought the bug was in the GeForce4 MX cards. Faulty logic of course since the Ti wasn't even out yet, and could have sufered from the same bug as well. Later he made passive threats about how he should get a new Cinema HD Display since the screen flashing was obviously damaging the screen. He also got Apple to replace the computer not once, but twice for him...all for a software bug.
Look at his hardware problem history and ask yourself if he's for real. It's like every Apple product he owns is made out of cardboard...they all break! His PowerBook G3, PBG4, iBook, iMac...if it has an Apple logo on it, it'll break on him. The problem is the man, not the computer.
I bet nobody else on the planet will ever have the same PBG4 17" problem as he does.
What's interesting now is that according to Manzione, someone at Apple has damaged his book to make it look like the cracked screen was the result of his own mistreatment. However, he did post pictures before he sent the book in for repair, and none of the damage was there in those pics. I'm inclined to believe Manzione, though it can't be proved either way.
Oh come on now. Why would they do that? Their contract is already loose enough. They don't have to further damage his computer just to say they won't fix it. Just look at the way he writes. He's a pathological liar. And if you check his archives, he's never been that rabid fanboi you think he is.
Apple should sue him for libel. All the judge will need to see is his long repair history. Maybe that will make him shut up. Man I wish I saved the Power Mac G4 thread on the Apple Discussions Board.
From what I know of magazines, you can usually get anything repaired/replaced if you contact the manufacturer (and are nice about it) BEFORE publishing anything. If you do your end and keep it hush hush, the manufcaturer will most of the time give you special treatment so that you continue to keep it hush hush. Manzione thinks of himself as a magazine, as a publication, Apple doesn't. I think that's the simple reason for the impasse. He demands things publicly, and does a lot of yelling, and Apple treats him like everybody else (which is only fair, since I really wouldn't call Macnet2 a "publication")
EDit: or in a more succinct version, mebbe I'm just a nihilist at heart, but I enjoy seeing a "publication" screw with Apple for a change, rather than the other way around. hehe
Still, I enjoy the negative publicity that Manzione is generating. If nothing else, it will make people think twice about AppleCare. Kinda unrelated, but for the money they charge there ought to be some sort of screen coverage/insurance included. If big box retailers can offer this, so can Apple.
But this other guy is sad.
Of course you do. However, that tells us more about you than it does about (unrelated) AppleCare or anything else.
And I don't think AppleCare should cover abuse or damage. You gotta take care of your own sh!t. It's a several thousand dollar piece of hi-tech equipment. Not a toaster.
Think about it.
He's made publice a Private affair and has all but ensured that any other Website Owners will have problems getting repairs.
I feel for John in ways but it's HIGHLY abnormal to have that many problems with Macs. I've worked around alot and his issues raise SERIOUS red flags.
He's got his support troups over on his site like Jeff Williams. Misery loves company. Matsu...don't fall victim to this garbage. Neither Apple nor Manzione are right here and people are starting to tune out on John. No matter what happens Apple will win. This is David versus Super Goliath here.
Originally posted by hmurchison
Manzione is justifying Apples apprehension towards Hobbyist sites.
And he's making Apple that much more cynical toward people who actually do have a run of bad luck.
I feel for John in ways but it's HIGHLY abnormal to have that many problems with Macs. I've worked around alot and his issues raise SERIOUS red flags.
Also, his volubility and professed loyalty are both rather transparent attempts to get some leverage against Apple, which basically presumes bad faith on their part.
Looking at his history, he's either a complete slob with respect to his equipment, or he has a technological black thumb. Apple does ship the odd lemon (like my brother's old PowerBook 150), and the occasional problematic model (the TiBook, for the first several revisions) but this is ridiculous. It's like watching someone complain that their last 12 Toyotas fell apart within a month of purchase.
This is unrelated, but almost any mag (that's actually in print) won't dare say anything negative about Apple, so we have to turn to the web. I just like the melodrama, sosueme!
As for Applecare, why shouldn't it cover accidental breakage? We know LCD's are fragile, that's why I think AppleCare ought to include screen protection. NOT with the basic one year, but when people pony up the ridiculous amount for extended coverage, there should be some sort of screen protection built in, perhaps with a small additional deductible. Apple charges well over the industry average for coverage, and let's not forget that retailers themselves manage to offer extended warrantees that DO provide coverage for accidental screen damage. It isn't an unreasonable expectation given the cost.
i see a noticable change in how i'm treated after they look up my account. (for the better)
i for one have no problem with that. i like being able to skip over the chimp with index cards tech support level.
Mac fanboi, eh? Well, in today's column he concludes that:
AAC encoded music sucks, big time
When we played the songs we noticed immediately that the songs sounded muddled and barely listenable.
2.1% and shrinking
Somewhere along the ?line of decline? Apple decided that it can no longer play with the big boys when it comes to ?keeping up with the Jones? regarding speed. You can blame Motorola for this if you like, but the blame falls on the shoulders of Steve Jobs. Apple?s Board of Directors are simply puppets for Jobs and no one dare challenge his rule.
No one is adopting Apple?s expensive Xserves
These sleek but weak servers are over-priced and under performed. No one in their right mind is going to spend a lot of money on an Xserve when IT people can build UNIX PC?s for a fraction of the cost and get a faster Server in the process.
Apple?s desktop machines are ridiculously slower than PC?s and much more expensive
And the funniest thing of all:
companies at turning to more and more Dells for employee desktop machines rather than waste precious resources on weird looking Macs that run a horribly slow OS..... How can you expect a business to pay more for a Mac only to get an OS than runs slow, is less compatible than Windows, and requires all employees to learn a new way to work. Well, they don?t, and that?s why you see the worldwide market share at an all time low.
This is hilarious. John actually made this comment regarding OSX, in April of last year:
"Bottom line after playing with several machines running the official OS X is simply this. There is NO other Operating System in the world that is faster than OS X. None."
Have a peek through this thread at MacNN, there is some good reading in there.
Poor guy has his nose out of joint and is slamming basically everything he can think of to do with Apple.
Regarding his PowerBook, I don't doubt there was a problem with the hinge sticking or being out of alignment... but when I'm opening the lid of a $3500 computer if I feel the least bit of pressure, I STOP OPENING THE THING. You can see how quickly he opens and closes the display in that video, and I'm sure he did just that when he destroyed the LCD. If you feel the brakes on your brand new car going out, do you leave the driveway anyway, then ask for a new car when you hit a light post?
Like I said earlier, I crossed paths with him before. He made Apple ship him two new Power Macs, demanded a new Cinema Display and GeForce4 Ti for what ultimately ended up being a bug in the drivers.
It was a real problem, but blown out of proportion. And he is of course hit by every Apple production flaw ever discussed and in the meantime manages to discover a half dozen on his own.
Does he know or really understand these issues? probably not too well, and most likely it's only coming out now that he has a personal beef with Apple.
Like I said, I just like the drama, and if it puts a little pressure on Apple (however insignificant, or possibly misguided, tho I don't think entirely so) then cool.
Originally posted by murbot
Regarding his PowerBook, I don't doubt there was a problem with the hinge sticking or being out of alignment... but when I'm opening the lid of a $3500 computer if I feel the least bit of pressure, I STOP OPENING THE THING. You can see how quickly he opens and closes the display in that video, and I'm sure he did just that when he destroyed the LCD. If you feel the brakes on your brand new car going out, do you leave the driveway anyway, then ask for a new car when you hit a light post?
And how he pushes down on the display and waves the whole thing around like it's a baton. The guy's a freaking menace...Somehow, somewhere he'll get his.
He's finished. All credibility is G-O-N-E. On the net all you have is credibility an his is gone. He obviously IS a Problem Customer and Macnet2 is being deleted from thousands of bookmark lists. John ...you lose.
Matsu you should know better than to align yourself with a fool. I'm disappointed in you.