CONFIRMED: MPC 7457 with up to 1833 Mhz

Posted:
in Future Apple Hardware edited January 2014
I'm the first one to post it, am I?



The MPC 7457 shall be available in early 2003, but I don't think we should expect 1.8 Ghz for SF2003.



haderach
«13456789

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 173
    Almost forgot:



    here's the proof (download PDF and take a look at the roadmap page):



    <a href="http://e-www.motorola.com/collateral/SNDF2002RECAP_Q1228.pdf"; target="_blank">http://e-www.motorola.com/collateral/SNDF2002RECAP_Q1228.pdf</a>;



    The 7457 will be made on a 0.13 process. Maybe it will even feature 512 kb on-chip cache, although they don't mention it. No DDR.



    The 7457-RM with DDR RAM and 2 Ghz is still a proposal, but it won't come before 2004. This means that the G4/DDR hack will remain as is until Apple will either chose the MPC 7457-RM or the PPC 970.



    I hope this means we'll get the 7457 @ about 1.4 - 1.5 Ghz at SF2003.
  • Reply 2 of 173
    jbljbl Posts: 555member
    [quote]Originally posted by haderach:

    <strong>I'm the first one to post it, am I?

    </strong><hr></blockquote>



    No



    [quote]Originally posted by Outsider:

    <strong>Oh ho ho! What is this???



    <a href="http://e-www.motorola.com/collateral/SNDF2002RECAP_Q1228.pdf"; target="_blank">http://e-www.motorola.com/collateral/SNDF2002RECAP_Q1228.pdf</a>;



    Nice! Beats the 970 in terms of raw MHz and is slated for early 2003? Now now, Motorola, why have you been holding out on us?

    </strong><hr></blockquote>



    It is in the middle of the first page of <a href="http://forums.appleinsider.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=002550"; target="_blank">this</a> thread.
  • Reply 3 of 173
    <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" /> lets talk a little bit about the new IBM 970 chip and the mythical motorola G5.

    I have bad news for all of you who were/are so excited by the announced IBM chip.

    first off all it isnt even coming out until late 2003 at the earliest.

    its initial clock speed will be 1.8 ghz.

    its specint rating is around 1000.

    im sorry for the next bit of bad news i have to give you sweethearts but the motorola g5 which will be available sometime in late 2003(notice the same time frame as the IBM chip) will be initially rated at 1.6 ghz and have a specint rating of around 1300-1400!!!!

    it also will run much cooler than the ibm chip,23W.

    now im not some subversive,but i know for a fact that motorola can make a way better cpu than ibm.

    this is a fact!

    ask yourselves a few questions:

    how much will ibms new chips cost?

    how much power do the consume at said clockspeed?

    how high will it scale?

    how compatible is it with existing powerpc designs?

    please............think about it.

    motorola ALREADY has 2 G5 chips out,albiet they are embedded processors,but they are available and consume very little power,and they are powerful and feature rich.

    i really think steve jobs make a critical mistake when he killed the clones.

    im not saying he should not have done it,its just the way he did it.

    motorla as many of you know was very very upset by this and said "apple will just be another customer now,no more special treatment".

    i honestly think the killing of the clones had a lot to do with motorola's lackluster processor speed improvements.

    again,think for a minute.

    up until then motorola was actually AHEAD of pentium class processors in speed and power.

    the coincidence of these events can not be easily mooted.

    i honestly think motorola is holding back,i think they could make a cpu which would be faster,cost less and consume less power than any other processor on the market if they wanted to.

    as for what processor will be coming out next spring in the powermac updates?

    its anyones guess.

    the purported 7470 chips have yet to make an appearance.

    they are also rumours of a supa-G4 called the 7500 with 500 mhz RAPID I/O that should be rolling off the presses very very soon.

    i just want everyone to calm down a bit and THINK!

    this ibm chip IS NOT THE ANSWER.

    im sure im the only saying this but i feel in my gut that if motorola goes down....so does apple.

    my god bless us all and long live apple!!!!!
  • Reply 4 of 173
    outsideroutsider Posts: 6,008member
    Also there is a MOSR article that links to another PDF on Mots site that shows it to include 512KB of L2 cache AND support for up to 4MB L3. Those are the main changes (besides the process shrink).
  • Reply 5 of 173
    You will notice of course that DDR RAM isn't added to 7457 until 2004, which is the larger problem with Macs right now more than raw chip speed.



    Jet
  • Reply 6 of 173
    stwstw Posts: 21member
    The difference between IBM and Motorola:

    The PowerPC is offical - it was presented last week.

    The Motorola G5 for the desktop is still just a rumor and some changing roadmaps.
  • Reply 7 of 173
    kidredkidred Posts: 2,402member
    Ah so this is the G4+ I've been talking about for the last few months?
  • Reply 8 of 173
    kidredkidred Posts: 2,402member
    Ah so this is the G4+ I've been talking about for the last few months?
  • Reply 9 of 173
    Kidred's on the money.



    Go this from Chipgeek.com



    Pologies if it's already been posted...



    "The Day 4 afternoon session discussed both high-end and low-end microprocessors, including Hammer, Pentium 4, and IBM's

    64-bit 970 (hopefully people won't get this chip confused with ATI's 9700). After discussing the high-powered 970, a CPU derived from the mainframe-class Power4, Kevin Krewell briefly discussed Motorola's G5. Apparently, Motorola may cede the Apple market to IBM and make the G5 an embedded chip. Although the G5 should sport a 10-stage pipeline, contain copper interconnects and SOI, operate at 1.6GHz, and contain an on-chip memory controller, the chip will probably not be competitive with other offerings. Apple needs to do something besides OS X to refresh the Macintosh line, and IBM's 970 should at least get Apple back into the performance race. "



    Lemon Bon Bon
  • Reply 10 of 173
    As for Moto' being able to build a better cpu than IBM?



    Where is Moto's Power4 beater? Where is the G5 than a couple of embedded (non Apple type) cpus?



    GPUL is POWERPC genuine announced by IBM. It's 'here' whether Apple use it or not. None of the 'G5' chips mentioned get anywhere near the 'GPUL'.



    A moto' Spec beater? I find that hard to believe when the G4 has been hammered for years with regard to said Spec benchmark. Why would their (non existent?) G5 sweep aside the GPUL, Pentium 4 and Hammer cpus? They could barely keep the G4 competitive. It takes two G4s to make the G4 competitive with x86.



    IF Moto have a G5 then they'd be foolish to hold it back after having done development on it. What the cloning cost vs the cost of keeping Apple as a customer? No contest. Especially if, like Moto', you're a company in crisis.



    Moto' may have designed some elegant and 'bang for buck' cpus in the past. But several years ago...AMD and Intel's CPU race left their 'cool and elegant' strat' in tatters for their desktop customer Apple.



    IBM have incredible CPU tech' and resources and a definite road map if you count Power5 coming down the tap also.



    IBM has weight, business customers, critical credibility..and technological clout.



    Moto are 'giving' money away. Gee, perhaps if a company who has management that 'holds a grudge' can afford to...perhaps they deserve to lose money.



    Say what you like about M$...they don't walk away from money. Heck...they're rattled that Apple have stood up to bat for a mere % or two market share.



    Moto' and the G5? Smoke and mirrors. IF you've got real evidence...I'd love to see it.



    Lemon Bon Bon



    As for 'cool cpus'...they don't come much cooler than the G3. Old it may be.



    [ 10-22-2002: Message edited by: Lemon Bon Bon ]</p>
  • Reply 11 of 173
    Excuse me.. I just read the PDF MOSR provided and it says _nothing_ that we don't already know. In fact.. that PDF has been circulation on these boards before.



    Todays G4's are Apollo G4's, so there must be another code name for future generations. It says that we will see die shrink to 130 nm this year (HIP7), and it's just about 2 months left and no signs of it. As far as I know.. Motorola is not delivering any processor made in HIP7-technology yet.. desktop or embedded (the 8540 and 8460 are annonuced but I don't think they are shipping. I could be wrong though). There certainly are no G4's available, that's for sure.



    Then.. That PDF talks about a five year plan to bring the 74xx-series to 3+ GHz and with integrated RapidIO and so forth.. It's all great, but in 2007? I'm not impressed.



    We know that the 130 nm-G4 is called 7457 and 7447. The PDF linked to in this thread states that. I know that this processor is beeing sampled shortly, and if the PDF is correct.. it will go up to 1833 MHz. If that's initially or eventually I don't know.. but that's the plan.



    If there are any truth in c'ts SPEC-marks of the [email protected] GHz, then a [email protected] will be no match for 970 in Int and Fp.. The 970 will have nearly identical AltiVec-performance though.
  • Reply 12 of 173
    [quote]Originally posted by geekmeat:

    <strong> <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" /> lets talk a little bit about the new IBM 970 chip and the mythical motorola G5.

    I have bad news for all of you who were/are so excited by the announced IBM chip.

    first off all it isnt even coming out until late 2003 at the earliest.

    its initial clock speed will be 1.8 ghz.

    its specint rating is around 1000.

    im sorry for the next bit of bad news i have to give you sweethearts but the motorola g5 which will be available sometime in late 2003(notice the same time frame as the IBM chip) will be initially rated at 1.6 ghz and have a specint rating of around 1300-1400!!!!

    it also will run much cooler than the ibm chip,23W.

    now im not some subversive,but i know for a fact that motorola can make a way better cpu than ibm.

    this is a fact!

    ask yourselves a few questions:

    how much will ibms new chips cost?

    how much power do the consume at said clockspeed?

    how high will it scale?

    how compatible is it with existing powerpc designs?

    please............think about it.

    motorola ALREADY has 2 G5 chips out,albiet they are embedded processors,but they are available and consume very little power,and they are powerful and feature rich.

    i really think steve jobs make a critical mistake when he killed the clones.

    im not saying he should not have done it,its just the way he did it.

    motorla as many of you know was very very upset by this and said "apple will just be another customer now,no more special treatment".

    i honestly think the killing of the clones had a lot to do with motorola's lackluster processor speed improvements.

    again,think for a minute.

    up until then motorola was actually AHEAD of pentium class processors in speed and power.

    the coincidence of these events can not be easily mooted.

    i honestly think motorola is holding back,i think they could make a cpu which would be faster,cost less and consume less power than any other processor on the market if they wanted to.

    as for what processor will be coming out next spring in the powermac updates?

    its anyones guess.

    the purported 7470 chips have yet to make an appearance.

    they are also rumours of a supa-G4 called the 7500 with 500 mhz RAPID I/O that should be rolling off the presses very very soon.

    i just want everyone to calm down a bit and THINK!

    this ibm chip IS NOT THE ANSWER.

    im sure im the only saying this but i feel in my gut that if motorola goes down....so does apple.

    my god bless us all and long live apple!!!!!</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Looks like old TheReg mixed with macbidouille rumors!

    <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
  • Reply 13 of 173
    [quote]Originally posted by Henriok:

    <strong>Excuse me.. I just read the PDF MOSR provided and it says _nothing_ that we don't already know. In fact.. that PDF has been circulation on these boards before.



    Todays G4's are Apollo G4's, so there must be another code name for future generations. It says that we will see die shrink to 130 nm this year (HIP7), and it's just about 2 months left and no signs of it. As far as I know.. Motorola is not delivering any processor made in HIP7-technology yet.. desktop or embedded (the 8540 and 8460 are annonuced but I don't think they are shipping. I could be wrong though). There certainly are no G4's available, that's for sure.



    Then.. That PDF talks about a five year plan to bring the 74xx-series to 3+ GHz and with integrated RapidIO and so forth.. It's all great, but in 2007? I'm not impressed.



    We know that the 130 nm-G4 is called 7457 and 7447. The PDF linked to in this thread states that. I know that this processor is beeing sampled shortly, and if the PDF is correct.. it will go up to 1833 MHz. If that's initially or eventually I don't know.. but that's the plan.



    If there are any truth in c'ts SPEC-marks of the [email protected] GHz, then a [email protected] will be no match for 970 in Int and Fp.. The 970 will have nearly identical AltiVec-performance though.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    I see a lot of comments that people are convinced that the current G4 7455s are the Apollo. Is there evidence to that or is just an assumption?



    Keep in mind that SPECmarks are very memory intensive over very large pools of memory (i.e. much larger than the L3 cache on the G4). The 1.24 GHz G4 by any reasonable benchmark is nowhere near 10 times slower than a PIV 2.5 GHz -- maybe 50%, but not even that much for most code. The limited performance of the MPX bus is what really cripples the G4 on these kinds of benchmarks and algorithms, and while this matters for some things it doesn't correctly reflect the performance of most algorithms... especially ones written with cache coherency and the system's architecture in mind (even ignoring AltiVec).



    The 970 will be faster than the 7455 at the same clock rate in most things, but I expect there will be some cases where that isn't true. The 970 doesn't have an L3 cache and has longer pipelines so code which uses ~1 MB of data and does a lot of unpredictable branching will likely work better on the 7455. Code which uses a lot more data, or that branches predictably will run substantially faster on the 970... and this will be most code. I have no doubt that there will people out there who will bitch and complain about how "the 7455 was faster at ____ than this 970 -- this thing is worthless!".



    Engineering is all about tradeoffs and compromises, and different choices will be better or worse in different circumstances. Think for a moment about how many different kinds of algorithms runs on these processors -- its not at all surprising that overall performance cannot be distilled down to a couple of numbers.
  • Reply 14 of 173
    Meanwhile, Apple can abstain from the PRO market in 2002 & 2003 and focus on the iPod, iBook, and eMac.



    I do think Apple should encourage processor competition between Moto, IBM, AMD, etc., and not promise all the business to any one operation.



    [ 10-22-2002: Message edited by: Locomotive ]</p>
  • Reply 15 of 173
    [quote]Originally posted by geekmeat:

    [QB] <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" /> lets talk a little bit about the new IBM 970 chip and the mythical motorola G5.

    I have bad news for all of you who were/are so excited by the announced IBM chip.

    first off all it isnt even coming out until late 2003 at the earliest.<hr></blockquote>

    No, that's just the target date for general availability. For all you know, the actual release date could be before it's generally availble and even IBM says the date is "subject to change" which means it could be out before the target date.

    [quote]its initial clock speed will be 1.8 ghz.<hr></blockquote>

    Wrong again. IBM says the initial release will have a target of an 1.8Ghz upper limit which is "subject to change" as well. First product will probably be in the 1.4 to 1.6 Ghz range.

    [quote]its specint rating is around 1000.<hr></blockquote>

    Wrong again. It's estimated result is under 1000, there are no actual benchmark numbers for this chip yet.



    So out of your first three assertions (the facts of which are a matter of public record at this point) you get exactly zero right and we're supposed to believe the rest of your drivel?



    Here's a thought. Next time you have a burning desire to share what I'm sure you regard as burning insights into the semiconductor industry, stop and ask yourself if you really know what you're talking about.



    If the answer is no, then don't post, 'k?
  • Reply 16 of 173
    "I do think Apple should encourage processor competition between Moto, IBM, AMD, etc., and not promise all the business to any one operation."



    I Moto's bash quite abit.



    But if Moto' were to release a G5 to compete with the 970. I'd be for it. We've only heard of 'whisphers' of such a chip. People like Kidred and Moki aren't holding out much hope for it. Moto' aren't talking about it. There was nothing about it at this or last year's Microprocessor forum about any such chip. IBM have laid their plans on the table. Which suggests Moto' lost the ball after dropping the ball on numerous occasions in the last few years. A Canadian Moto' rep' said a desktop G5 was not even on Moto's radar.



    Part of me would still like Moto' to deliver a desktop G5. Nostalgia or a Brit' whose bad habit is to root for the underdog which Moto' now is.



    The increased competition in Apple's 'power'Mac line for the OEM graphic card contract has certainly brought Mac users options and significantly increased performance.



    I'm not sure I like the idea of Apple being dependent on any one company. But out of the two, I'd side with IBM on the evidence I have so far.



    Lemon Bon Bon



    Another thing. Apple's 'hackserve' looks like it maybe all we get for the 1.8 G4.



    But the 'on chip'(?) DDR memory controller talked about by (Moki') may rear its head this Jan'Feb and surprise us.



    And for the record. I guess it's nice if you could buy a 'power'Mac and enjoy it today. I miss 'my' Mac.



    I just can't justify that kind of money with the 970 seemingly...just over half a year away.



    [ 10-22-2002: Message edited by: Lemon Bon Bon ]</p>
  • Reply 17 of 173
    robsterrobster Posts: 256member
    [quote]Originally posted by geekmeat:

    <strong> <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" /> lets talk a little bit about the new IBM 970 chip and the mythical motorola G5.

    I have bad news for all of you who were/are so excited by the announced IBM chip.

    </strong><hr></blockquote>



    Dude, there is NO desktop G5, never will be!

    Your comparing an existing, announced IBM chip to a non-existent chip from a company who are looking to sell - off there chip division.

    you ought to THINK a bit first.

    Sorry to flame but your so wrong it's just not funny...

    It's a bitch that we're stuck with the damn G4 for ages until but it won't be as long as you think, IBM say the chip is available in Q3 2003 but that's only for normal customers, Apple are a development partner and will have it in quantity end of Q1 2003.



    Whoa end of flame!
  • Reply 18 of 173
    kidredkidred Posts: 2,402member
    [quote]Originally posted by geekmeat:

    <strong> <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" /> lets talk a little bit about the new IBM 970 chip and the mythical motorola G5.

    I have bad news for all of you who were/are so excited by the announced IBM chip.

    first off all it isnt even coming out until late 2003 at the earliest.

    its initial clock speed will be 1.8 ghz.

    its specint rating is around 1000.

    im sorry for the next bit of bad news i have to give you sweethearts but the motorola g5 which will be available sometime in late 2003(notice the same time frame as the IBM chip) will be initially rated at 1.6 ghz and have a specint rating of around 1300-1400!!!!

    it also will run much cooler than the ibm chip,23W.

    now im not some subversive,but i know for a fact that motorola can make a way better cpu than ibm.

    this is a fact!

    ask yourselves a few questions:

    how much will ibms new chips cost?

    how much power do the consume at said clockspeed?

    how high will it scale?

    how compatible is it with existing powerpc designs?

    please............think about it.

    motorola ALREADY has 2 G5 chips out,albiet they are embedded processors,but they are available and consume very little power,and they are powerful and feature rich.

    i really think steve jobs make a critical mistake when he killed the clones.

    im not saying he should not have done it,its just the way he did it.

    motorla as many of you know was very very upset by this and said "apple will just be another customer now,no more special treatment".

    i honestly think the killing of the clones had a lot to do with motorola's lackluster processor speed improvements.

    again,think for a minute.

    up until then motorola was actually AHEAD of pentium class processors in speed and power.

    the coincidence of these events can not be easily mooted.

    i honestly think motorola is holding back,i think they could make a cpu which would be faster,cost less and consume less power than any other processor on the market if they wanted to.

    as for what processor will be coming out next spring in the powermac updates?

    its anyones guess.

    the purported 7470 chips have yet to make an appearance.

    they are also rumours of a supa-G4 called the 7500 with 500 mhz RAPID I/O that should be rolling off the presses very very soon.

    i just want everyone to calm down a bit and THINK!

    this ibm chip IS NOT THE ANSWER.

    im sure im the only saying this but i feel in my gut that if motorola goes down....so does apple.

    my god bless us all and long live apple!!!!!</strong><hr></blockquote>



    The G4 chip you speak of will be out in jan 2003, and the IBM 970 chip will be out next fall. The G4 after updating the towers one last time before bowing down to the 970 will end up with the iMac, PB and so on until Apple is ready to move on. Moto's not going anywhere but they aren't top dog any longer, IBM is now.
  • Reply 19 of 173
    nevynnevyn Posts: 360member
    [quote]

    ask yourselves a few questions:

    1 how much will ibms new chips cost?

    2 how much power do the consume at said clockspeed?

    3 how high will it scale?

    4 how compatible is it with existing powerpc designs?

    <hr></blockquote> (Numbers added)



    1) 50 million transistors -&gt; it will have a reasonable price.

    2) Gosh, I think we've been told that already. Looks fine to me.

    3) 1.8 Ghz. We won't know more than that as fact until it is either shown at a higher speed, or shown to have problems.

    4) Far more compatible than any other chip at &gt;166 MHz FSB. Apple has to change the bus _anyway_, so it isn't like the redesign of the northbridge is unexpected. IBM has said all 32 bit apps would not even need a recompile, and only minor tweaks for the OS since the PPC spec was designed for this transition. Sounds fine to me.



    Sure, a chip from Mot might be nice. Sure, a chip from Mot might even top the 970. But being on a dual 970 in August 2003 is a pretty good spot to be. Anything better than that would rock. Anything worse than Jan 2004 would suck.



    The lines I liked involved things like: 'First of a new chip family', or 'These numbers are conservative', or 'The Fishkill plant will be running full tilt until Summer 2003, roughly when we intend to transfer to 0.90 nm'.
  • Reply 20 of 173
    rickagrickag Posts: 1,626member
    [quote]Originally posted by geekmeat:

    <strong>

    please............think about it.

    motorola ALREADY has 2 G5 chips out,albiet they are embedded processors,but they are available and consume very little power,and they are powerful and feature rich......



    they are also rumours of a supa-G4 called the 7500 with 500 mhz RAPID I/O that should be rolling off the presses very very soon.



    this ibm chip IS NOT THE ANSWER.

    im sure im the only saying this but i feel in my gut that if motorola goes down....so does apple.

    my god bless us all and long live apple!!!!!</strong><hr></blockquote>



    The MPC8540 and MPC8560, G5's, are not available, as far as I know, they haven't even sampled. They are not listed on Motorola's product sheets at any price. Please, if they are show the evidence, I'd like to be enlightened.



    The MPC75XX is just that, a rumor. An old, very very very old rumor.



    How do you know the IBM chip is not the answer????



    Have a nice day
Sign In or Register to comment.