But hasn't Apple publicly stated a fall release for Panther?
I don't remember this being stated and even if it were true, that means they have until December 21st (??) to release on time.
Like I said in a previous post. Everyone seems to think Panther will be released in Sept. Unless 970 powermacs are available in July, then Smeagol makes NO sense. If Panther isn't ready until Dec--which is likely since Devs are getting a "sneek peek" in late June--then Smeagol makes sense along with a PM 970 release "this summer".
I don't remember this being stated and even if it were true, that means they have until December 21st (??) to release on time.
Like I said in a previous post. Everyone seems to think Panther will be released in Sept. Unless 970 powermacs are available in July, then Smeagol makes NO sense. If Panther isn't ready until Dec--which is likely since Devs are getting a "sneek peek" in late June--then Smeagol makes sense along with a PM 970 release "this summer".
I think that is a very logical solution. 'Cracked it'. I think you could be right. What's the point of 'Smeagol' in August if Panther is September? Might as well wait a little longer. Smeagol, as you've pointed out suggests that our 'Fall' interpretation could be out of whack. 'Fall' could mean bumped Towers around December. ie to Dual/Quad formations. Could mean a bump to 2.2 over the 1.8. So when Apple go dual they offer 2.2 in addition to 1.8 dual 970s. Hmmm. You've got me thinking that Panther is shaping up to be something more special than even Jaguar was. And they're going to need that extra time to finish it. We could be taking a hair before the Christmas shopping season. Nov-Dec? Yeah. Apple must be cooking up something special.
Re: Smeagol. Means we get most of the 32 bit CPU performance and bandwidth we could only dream off under the G4. Single 1.4 and 1.8 970s off the presses as IBM ramps up production. Say shipping August (ala Towers last year?) then that gives Apple two quarters of storming 970 sales. Which takes Apple up to late Fall. Panther and duals hit. On Panther...a new, more elegant software solution optimised to take advantage of the new, elegant 'hypertransport' parallel interconnect that allows multiple cpus to connect more efficiently and elegantly than in say, the current dual G4 towers. End result? Worth waiting for the duals! Be well worth it. But the single smeagol 970s? Well worth it performance right out the gate with a further boost as 970s go dual under dual enhancing Panther! I'm now pitching that as my interpretation of the conflicting eWeek, Moki, Macdoobie smoke signals. In a manner of speaking...they're all right?
Photoshop 7 (8 pending...) and Lightwave 7 should fly under a '32-bit' 970 running on '32 bit' Jag'/Smeagol. So celebrate.
Hmmm. I think alot of Mac users will take that. Quark 6 on 'Smeagol' 970s? That's going to be a good quarter. Sales for June quarter will be flat (said Apple) therefore it's got to be Smeagol 970s for WWDC, New York Macworld or Seybold at the latest. We're looking at anything from 4-8 weeks for actual shipping in that context? That would make Moki's 'hints' correct and corraborate eWeeks story. Yet...Moki said eWeek contained 'horsesmells'. That may have been the 'performance' penalty talk...not the delivery timetable.
Still, just to get a preview of a 970 and Panther at WWDC and another amazing Steve Jobs keynote would suffice for me. Those other 4-8 weeks will soon swing around for me. The best things in life are worth waiting for.
I want a dual 2.2 970 running 'Panther'. Personally, I think that will be worth waiting for. Compared to the last Mac I owned (my beloved Powermac 'Manhattan'...) it will seem like lightspeed.
So celebrate part 2!
Typical Steve Jobs double whammy. And who knows...a Renderman buyout by Apple along with a 64 bit Shake come the fall? 3D community cry foul and open their chequebooks and go Apple...heh...
Lemon Bon Bon
PS. So what we're having is not hardware 'Yikes' but software 'Yikes'. No? But with what could hardly be called a penalty. Given the massive speed gains envisaged, I'll take half(?) the performance of the single 970 now and double(?) improvement later as and when Panther ships.
Well, are we certain that "Smeagol" even exists? What troubles me the most is that if Apple "demoes" the G5s, assuming they won't be shipping in the next 60-90 days, that alone will KILL any PowerMac sales--and there aren't many of those to begin with! I find it hard to believe word won't leak out on what's coming shortly.
If the G5s are just "demoed" or introduced, Apple better be ready to introduce and begin shipping them within 60 days or so.
I am beginning to suffer from RRDF(Remote RDF). I am -really- starting to like the G5 name....
But hasn't Apple publicly stated a fall release for Panther? If not, I'm sure we'll get a formal release date or month at the WWDC. I don't think Apple would be late on Panther so I'm not sure the likelyhood of smeagol being a yikes! OS. Hope not anyway
Good point. Now this thread starts to push the release date to August/September, and this might mean that they ship with 10.3, and wont need this 10.2.7 build!
And then we have more time to dream up better hardware to put into those machines, so here's my bid:
Moki, you're killing me here. Put up or shut up, man. This cryptic streak you've got going on is killing my dangerously optimistic pre-WWDC vibe.
I'm trying to temper my enthusiasm, but here are my specs based on UTTER AND COMPLETE SPECULATION AND HOPE:
- Single 1.4 and 1.8GHz PPC970-based PowerMacs; duals to come
- Shipping no later than 4 weeks past WWDC (since the announcement will torpedo G4 sales)
- Running Smeagol 10.2.7 until...
- Panther ships by Halloween at the latest
- PPC970-based 15" PowerBook G5 (yes, I'm being hopeful)
I'm also holding out hope for either the long-sought after cheap/headless Mac, or a lowering of the tower prices to $1,200 or less, but since this is Apple and not Dell, I'm not optimistic on this point.
And, I know it's off topic for this thread, but I'm at least as excited to see what Panther brings to the table now that OS X is mostly out of the "we're still adding features to match OS 9's set" stage. One of the rumor sites opined that Panther would begin to seriously differentiate the Mac OS once again from Windoze. I, for one, can't wait. I think that WWDC will be at least as exciting as any recent Macworld Expo!
PS - No ill will meant, Moki. I gots nothin' but love for ya, man! :-)
This never ever happens to me, but earlier today I got dropped a very, very big hint from a reputable source about the new 15" Powerbook coming out at the WWDC...
They didn't say anything about details, and I didn't ask out of respect of the situation I was in, but the intimation was that it would bring 15" specs into line with the current Alu books. Nothing more specific was mentioned...
If he reports what he hears second or third hand, and he doesn't violate any NDA's the he's signed (or, if he hasn't signed any NDA's in the first place) then he has nothing to fear from Apple.
Right. Nothing I even hint at is covered by any NDA I have with Apple; I take such things very seriously.
But really, WWDC is 10 days away -- why spoil it? Let the speculation continue unabated.
There will be some heavy things about at WWDC just don't expect to be able to carry 'em home.
There will be some heavy things about at WWDC just don't expect to be able to carry 'em home.
god, i love moki
if i had a particle accelarator and could put moki, programmer, peter o'toole and brad pitt inside it and just smash them all together into one brundlefly human...sigh, that just might make me question my sexual orientation...
There will be some heavy things about at WWDC just don't expect to be able to carry 'em home.
Steve took on some weight?
No seriously folks.. Xstation? "Wolf"-cluster? Xgrid? -Since you didnt spoil any NDA saying that, you might as well drop a breadcrum more tomorrow..
I expect some kind of Powermac 'announcement' to be made, of one kind or another, its going to be big. Powermac going Power5 maybe..? BaahHH... Just dreaming..
But really, WWDC is 10 days away -- why spoil it? Let the speculation continue unabated.
So be it! Here is a (cough) revised list.
Power PC 970 previewed in some manner at WWDC, possibly in conjunction with Panther demos.
Availability? 1 or 2 single processor 970 based Macs in 30 to 60 days.
Dual processors to follow with the release of Panther, sometime in the fall.
Initial OS will be some kind of patched version of 10.2.x. Doesn't really matter what it is called.
Panther will include an improved compiler and other overall system enhancements plus 64 bit capability.
Performance? I won't attempt to detail all the possible scenarios. It will vary along with the task. Worst case scenario is maybe 1.25 times compared to a same megahertz G4. Best case Scenario is maybe 3 to 3.5 times for a combination of System bus, floating point and Altivec all working at optimum. Overall average maybe around 1.7 to 2.2 times for most daily operations.
Powerbook 970? I am still doubtful. Not for at least another 2-3 months.
X-Serve 970? Not till 2004
970 for iMac, eMac, etc? Not till 2004 at earliest.
New Motorola G4 chips? Doubtful.
The day after WWDC keynote, the rumor boards will have a few disgruntled people complaining of how Apple held back and is doomed or complaining that they didn't come in at under $1000 or that they aren't available right away and aren't faster then a theoretical 10 ghz P4 that might someday exist.
How's that for "speculation" and no I won't be disappointed if some or all of it doesn't come true. Well actually, I don't think the last item is really speculation.
So be it! Here is a (cough) revised list. Power PC 970 previewed in some manner at WWDC, possibly in conjunction with Panther demos. Availability? 1 or 2 single processor 970 based Macs in 30 to 60 days. Dual processors to follow with the release of Panther, sometime in the fall. Initial OS will be some kind of patched version of 10.2.x. Doesn't really matter what it is called. Panther will include an improved compiler and other overall system enhancements plus 64 bit capability. Performance? I won't attempt to detail all the possible scenarios. It will vary along with the task. Worst case scenario is maybe 1.25 times compared to a same megahertz G4. Best case Scenario is maybe 3 to 3.5 times for a combination of System bus, floating point and Altivec all working at optimum. Overall average maybe around 1.7 to 2.2 times for most daily operations. Powerbook 970? I am still doubtful. Not for at least another 2-3 months. X-Serve 970? Not till 2004 970 for iMac, eMac, etc? Not till 2004 at earliest. New Motorola G4 chips? Doubtful. The day after WWDC keynote, the rumor boards will have a few disgruntled people complaining of how Apple held back and is doomed or complaining that they didn't come in at under $1000 or that they aren't available right away and aren't faster then a theoretical 10 ghz P4 that might someday exist. How's that for "speculation" and no I won't be disappointed if some or all of it doesn't come true. Well actually, I don't think the last item is really speculation.
Some here seem to think Smeagol is a last minute hack to get Jaguar working on a 970 Mac. No way. IBM said a few minor changes were needed to run a 32 bit OS on the 970 way back at the Microprocessor Forum, so Apple knew what was coming. After that, Apple has been getting engineering chips and then production samples of the 970. Apple must have made these changes way back so they could test the early hardware prototypes.
I agree. It's not like Apple's gonna say "Oh, wow, this new chip just landed. I guess we better hack it into Jaguar!"
As far as timing is concerned, 970s running Jaguar should be available right away after WWDC. There's no way it'd take Apple until Panther's release to get the new Macs out the door - they've been ready for this for a loooong time.
Just to bring something up from about three pages ago, concerning naming paradigms......
*cough prepares for geekiest nerdiest post in history cough*
About the IBM-------->HAL thing?
Arthur C. Clarke, who wrote "2001: A Space Odyssey" (no, Kubrick only directed, though Clarke gave him a co-writing credit) has insisted that this was a coincidence. People laugh about it now, but IBM was quite pissed back in the day.
Clarke maintains that the name comes from "Heuristically programmed ALgorythmic computer" whatever that means.
Full details can be found in Clarke's book "The Lost Worlds of 2001"
There. I feel better now.
Back to the GPUL/970/G5 of which I am getting heartily sick. Can't we talk about the 980 instead?
Comments
But hasn't Apple publicly stated a fall release for Panther?
I don't remember this being stated and even if it were true, that means they have until December 21st (??) to release on time.
Like I said in a previous post. Everyone seems to think Panther will be released in Sept. Unless 970 powermacs are available in July, then Smeagol makes NO sense. If Panther isn't ready until Dec--which is likely since Devs are getting a "sneek peek" in late June--then Smeagol makes sense along with a PM 970 release "this summer".
I don't remember this being stated and even if it were true, that means they have until December 21st (??) to release on time.
Like I said in a previous post. Everyone seems to think Panther will be released in Sept. Unless 970 powermacs are available in July, then Smeagol makes NO sense. If Panther isn't ready until Dec--which is likely since Devs are getting a "sneek peek" in late June--then Smeagol makes sense along with a PM 970 release "this summer".
I think that is a very logical solution. 'Cracked it'. I think you could be right. What's the point of 'Smeagol' in August if Panther is September? Might as well wait a little longer. Smeagol, as you've pointed out suggests that our 'Fall' interpretation could be out of whack. 'Fall' could mean bumped Towers around December. ie to Dual/Quad formations. Could mean a bump to 2.2 over the 1.8. So when Apple go dual they offer 2.2 in addition to 1.8 dual 970s. Hmmm. You've got me thinking that Panther is shaping up to be something more special than even Jaguar was. And they're going to need that extra time to finish it. We could be taking a hair before the Christmas shopping season. Nov-Dec? Yeah. Apple must be cooking up something special.
Re: Smeagol. Means we get most of the 32 bit CPU performance and bandwidth we could only dream off under the G4. Single 1.4 and 1.8 970s off the presses as IBM ramps up production. Say shipping August (ala Towers last year?) then that gives Apple two quarters of storming 970 sales. Which takes Apple up to late Fall. Panther and duals hit. On Panther...a new, more elegant software solution optimised to take advantage of the new, elegant 'hypertransport' parallel interconnect that allows multiple cpus to connect more efficiently and elegantly than in say, the current dual G4 towers. End result? Worth waiting for the duals! Be well worth it. But the single smeagol 970s? Well worth it performance right out the gate with a further boost as 970s go dual under dual enhancing Panther! I'm now pitching that as my interpretation of the conflicting eWeek, Moki, Macdoobie smoke signals. In a manner of speaking...they're all right?
Photoshop 7 (8 pending...) and Lightwave 7 should fly under a '32-bit' 970 running on '32 bit' Jag'/Smeagol. So celebrate.
Hmmm. I think alot of Mac users will take that. Quark 6 on 'Smeagol' 970s? That's going to be a good quarter. Sales for June quarter will be flat (said Apple) therefore it's got to be Smeagol 970s for WWDC, New York Macworld or Seybold at the latest. We're looking at anything from 4-8 weeks for actual shipping in that context? That would make Moki's 'hints' correct and corraborate eWeeks story. Yet...Moki said eWeek contained 'horsesmells'. That may have been the 'performance' penalty talk...not the delivery timetable.
Still, just to get a preview of a 970 and Panther at WWDC and another amazing Steve Jobs keynote would suffice for me. Those other 4-8 weeks will soon swing around for me. The best things in life are worth waiting for.
I want a dual 2.2 970 running 'Panther'. Personally, I think that will be worth waiting for. Compared to the last Mac I owned (my beloved Powermac 'Manhattan'...) it will seem like lightspeed.
So celebrate part 2!
Typical Steve Jobs double whammy. And who knows...a Renderman buyout by Apple along with a 64 bit Shake come the fall? 3D community cry foul and open their chequebooks and go Apple...heh...
Lemon Bon Bon
PS. So what we're having is not hardware 'Yikes' but software 'Yikes'. No? But with what could hardly be called a penalty. Given the massive speed gains envisaged, I'll take half(?) the performance of the single 970 now and double(?) improvement later as and when Panther ships.
If the G5s are just "demoed" or introduced, Apple better be ready to introduce and begin shipping them within 60 days or so.
I am beginning to suffer from RRDF(Remote RDF). I am -really- starting to like the G5 name....
Originally posted by Lemon Bon Bon
And who knows...a Renderman buyout by Apple
Um, why? It would be cheaper if Steve Jobs just convinced Steve Jobs to make a Mac version.
I don't think we're going to see 970-based machines available for another 5 or 6 months.
I'm mentally prepared to read the news of dual 1.58's.
Originally posted by KidRed
But hasn't Apple publicly stated a fall release for Panther? If not, I'm sure we'll get a formal release date or month at the WWDC. I don't think Apple would be late on Panther so I'm not sure the likelyhood of smeagol being a yikes! OS. Hope not anyway
Fall starts September 22, IIRC.
Originally posted by Gilsch
Well, are we certain that "Smeagol" even exists?
Good point. Now this thread starts to push the release date to August/September, and this might mean that they ship with 10.3, and wont need this 10.2.7 build!
And then we have more time to dream up better hardware to put into those machines, so here's my bid:
GDDR-3
[Edit:] Fits with the bandwith... 6.4 Gbps.. Hint hint..
Fall starts September 22, IIRC.
And lasts through December 21st
I'm trying to temper my enthusiasm, but here are my specs based on UTTER AND COMPLETE SPECULATION AND HOPE:
- Single 1.4 and 1.8GHz PPC970-based PowerMacs; duals to come
- Shipping no later than 4 weeks past WWDC (since the announcement will torpedo G4 sales)
- Running Smeagol 10.2.7 until...
- Panther ships by Halloween at the latest
- PPC970-based 15" PowerBook G5 (yes, I'm being hopeful)
I'm also holding out hope for either the long-sought after cheap/headless Mac, or a lowering of the tower prices to $1,200 or less, but since this is Apple and not Dell, I'm not optimistic on this point.
And, I know it's off topic for this thread, but I'm at least as excited to see what Panther brings to the table now that OS X is mostly out of the "we're still adding features to match OS 9's set" stage. One of the rumor sites opined that Panther would begin to seriously differentiate the Mac OS once again from Windoze. I, for one, can't wait. I think that WWDC will be at least as exciting as any recent Macworld Expo!
PS - No ill will meant, Moki. I gots nothin' but love for ya, man! :-)
They didn't say anything about details, and I didn't ask out of respect of the situation I was in, but the intimation was that it would bring 15" specs into line with the current Alu books. Nothing more specific was mentioned...
Hmmm.
Originally posted by Amorph
If he reports what he hears second or third hand, and he doesn't violate any NDA's the he's signed (or, if he hasn't signed any NDA's in the first place) then he has nothing to fear from Apple.
Right. Nothing I even hint at is covered by any NDA I have with Apple; I take such things very seriously.
But really, WWDC is 10 days away -- why spoil it? Let the speculation continue unabated.
There will be some heavy things about at WWDC just don't expect to be able to carry 'em home.
Originally posted by moki
There will be some heavy things about at WWDC just don't expect to be able to carry 'em home.
god, i love moki
if i had a particle accelarator and could put moki, programmer, peter o'toole and brad pitt inside it and just smash them all together into one brundlefly human...sigh, that just might make me question my sexual orientation...
g
Originally posted by moki
There will be some heavy things about at WWDC just don't expect to be able to carry 'em home.
Steve took on some weight?
No seriously folks.. Xstation? "Wolf"-cluster? Xgrid? -Since you didnt spoil any NDA saying that, you might as well drop a breadcrum more tomorrow..
I expect some kind of Powermac 'announcement' to be made, of one kind or another, its going to be big. Powermac going Power5 maybe..? BaahHH... Just dreaming..
Originally posted by moki
But really, WWDC is 10 days away -- why spoil it? Let the speculation continue unabated.
So be it! Here is a (cough) revised list.
- Power PC 970 previewed in some manner at WWDC, possibly in conjunction with Panther demos.
- Availability? 1 or 2 single processor 970 based Macs in 30 to 60 days.
- Dual processors to follow with the release of Panther, sometime in the fall.
- Initial OS will be some kind of patched version of 10.2.x. Doesn't really matter what it is called.
- Panther will include an improved compiler and other overall system enhancements plus 64 bit capability.
- Performance? I won't attempt to detail all the possible scenarios. It will vary along with the task. Worst case scenario is maybe 1.25 times compared to a same megahertz G4. Best case Scenario is maybe 3 to 3.5 times for a combination of System bus, floating point and Altivec all working at optimum. Overall average maybe around 1.7 to 2.2 times for most daily operations.
- Powerbook 970? I am still doubtful. Not for at least another 2-3 months.
- X-Serve 970? Not till 2004
- 970 for iMac, eMac, etc? Not till 2004 at earliest.
- New Motorola G4 chips? Doubtful.
- The day after WWDC keynote, the rumor boards will have a few disgruntled people complaining of how Apple held back and is doomed or complaining that they didn't come in at under $1000 or that they aren't available right away and aren't faster then a theoretical 10 ghz P4 that might someday exist.
How's that for "speculation" and no I won't be disappointed if some or all of it doesn't come true. Well actually, I don't think the last item is really speculation.Originally posted by Shaktai
So be it! Here is a (cough) revised list. Power PC 970 previewed in some manner at WWDC, possibly in conjunction with Panther demos.
Availability? 1 or 2 single processor 970 based Macs in 30 to 60 days.
Dual processors to follow with the release of Panther, sometime in the fall.
Initial OS will be some kind of patched version of 10.2.x. Doesn't really matter what it is called.
Panther will include an improved compiler and other overall system enhancements plus 64 bit capability.
Performance? I won't attempt to detail all the possible scenarios. It will vary along with the task. Worst case scenario is maybe 1.25 times compared to a same megahertz G4. Best case Scenario is maybe 3 to 3.5 times for a combination of System bus, floating point and Altivec all working at optimum. Overall average maybe around 1.7 to 2.2 times for most daily operations.
Powerbook 970? I am still doubtful. Not for at least another 2-3 months.
X-Serve 970? Not till 2004
970 for iMac, eMac, etc? Not till 2004 at earliest.
New Motorola G4 chips? Doubtful.
The day after WWDC keynote, the rumor boards will have a few disgruntled people complaining of how Apple held back and is doomed or complaining that they didn't come in at under $1000 or that they aren't available right away and aren't faster then a theoretical 10 ghz P4 that might someday exist.
How's that for "speculation" and no I won't be disappointed if some or all of it doesn't come true. Well actually, I don't think the last item is really speculation.
Sounds pretty accurate to me!
As far as timing is concerned, 970s running Jaguar should be available right away after WWDC. There's no way it'd take Apple until Panther's release to get the new Macs out the door - they've been ready for this for a loooong time.
*cough prepares for geekiest nerdiest post in history cough*
About the IBM-------->HAL thing?
Arthur C. Clarke, who wrote "2001: A Space Odyssey" (no, Kubrick only directed, though Clarke gave him a co-writing credit) has insisted that this was a coincidence. People laugh about it now, but IBM was quite pissed back in the day.
Clarke maintains that the name comes from "Heuristically programmed ALgorythmic computer" whatever that means.
Full details can be found in Clarke's book "The Lost Worlds of 2001"
There. I feel better now.
Back to the GPUL/970/G5 of which I am getting heartily sick. Can't we talk about the 980 instead?