What is consciousness?
i was poking around on the "world wide web" and i came across an insanely interesting interview. it's with Cleve Backster, who claims to have tapped into the consciousness of a plant leaf, as well as that of bacteria, removed blood cells and more. going into the site, i was (hm, to put this delicately) in a slightly altered mind-state, so i didn't immediately dismiss the idea. it sounded really cool.
for those not wishing to click and read through the interview, i'm going to attempt to explain what backster does. he attaches a galvanometer's (lie detector) electrodes to the plant (or some conscious object, with the exception of humans and posibly other high-level beings) and then invokes naturally strong and negative feelings in himself, or in other people or in other beings. the galvanometer's meter or paper then reads very clear and sharp reactions, as if the plant (or whatever) feared the negative reactions from him (or from whatever). example: he decided he wanted to burn one of the plant's leaves, and, without igniting a match, or even speaking, the meter gave sharp results. as if the plant knew what he was thinking. he conducted many experiments, separating himself from the equation, in different rooms, out of the bulding and out of the state, and found that the consciousness being monitored, if it had become attuned to him, would give reactions regardless of his distance, and without any stimuli close to the plant. (it's probably not clear when i tried to explain it, cuz i'm a fvcking retard, but feel phre to click that link at the top.)
Backster has conducted many experiments noting reactions in a couple of things to the consciousness of many things. he noticed that yogurt reacts to killing bacteria; so do plants. that lettuce doesn't like to be around other leaves of lettuce as they are being eaten. some students hooked up a plant, which reacted when they cornered a spider and changed reaction when the spider was released.
and now, to attempt to encourage discussion: what do we ai'rs think of consciousness? this whole idea seems really interesting to me. i dont know if i completely believe this whole idea, but he did seem to address a bunch of the concerns i had with it. unfortunately, according to his theory, only true negative feelings enact a reaction, so trying to strategize a study would require thinking through what causes a negative reaction in you, and would then neutralize that reaction as it was happening in the experiment; and repeating it isn't really possible since, unless you found a truly distrubing and saddening idea, you would use up your reaction in the first iteration of the experiment. what do you guys out there in internet-land think of this idea? any scientists have informed attacks on his theories? laymen?
for those not wishing to click and read through the interview, i'm going to attempt to explain what backster does. he attaches a galvanometer's (lie detector) electrodes to the plant (or some conscious object, with the exception of humans and posibly other high-level beings) and then invokes naturally strong and negative feelings in himself, or in other people or in other beings. the galvanometer's meter or paper then reads very clear and sharp reactions, as if the plant (or whatever) feared the negative reactions from him (or from whatever). example: he decided he wanted to burn one of the plant's leaves, and, without igniting a match, or even speaking, the meter gave sharp results. as if the plant knew what he was thinking. he conducted many experiments, separating himself from the equation, in different rooms, out of the bulding and out of the state, and found that the consciousness being monitored, if it had become attuned to him, would give reactions regardless of his distance, and without any stimuli close to the plant. (it's probably not clear when i tried to explain it, cuz i'm a fvcking retard, but feel phre to click that link at the top.)
Backster has conducted many experiments noting reactions in a couple of things to the consciousness of many things. he noticed that yogurt reacts to killing bacteria; so do plants. that lettuce doesn't like to be around other leaves of lettuce as they are being eaten. some students hooked up a plant, which reacted when they cornered a spider and changed reaction when the spider was released.
and now, to attempt to encourage discussion: what do we ai'rs think of consciousness? this whole idea seems really interesting to me. i dont know if i completely believe this whole idea, but he did seem to address a bunch of the concerns i had with it. unfortunately, according to his theory, only true negative feelings enact a reaction, so trying to strategize a study would require thinking through what causes a negative reaction in you, and would then neutralize that reaction as it was happening in the experiment; and repeating it isn't really possible since, unless you found a truly distrubing and saddening idea, you would use up your reaction in the first iteration of the experiment. what do you guys out there in internet-land think of this idea? any scientists have informed attacks on his theories? laymen?
Comments
Originally posted by thuh Freak
i was poking around on the "world wide web" and i came across an insanely interesting interview. it's with Cleve Backster, who claims to have tapped into the consciousness of a plant leaf...
As opposed to tapping a few plant leaves into his own consciousness?
The article seems wildly unscientific, with little or no methodology to limit variables, no mention of using controls like dead or inorganic matter, no blinding or double-blinding, no outside corroboration... and that old telltale sign of a great deal of pseudoscience... excuses for why the results aren't repeatable.
What consciousness is is an interesting question... but not one to which I'd say this Backster has much to contribute. Guess that makes me part of the narrow-minded establishment that are always giving brave pioneers like Backster a hard time.
Stevie Wonder was so taken by the idea that he created a double album of music dedicated to Bohms ideas..
" The secret life of plants. "
Great music..but dodgy science...
Originally posted by thuh Freak
i
example: he decided he wanted to burn one of the plant's leaves, and, without igniting a match, or even speaking, the meter gave sharp results. as if the plant knew what he was thinking. he conducted many experiments, separating himself from the equation, in different rooms, out of the bulding and out of the state, and found that the consciousness being monitored, if it had become attuned to him, would give reactions regardless of his distance, and without any stimuli close to the plant. (it's probably not clear when i tried to explain it, cuz i'm a fvcking retard, but feel phre to click that link at the top.)
Good the man demonstrated that plants are telepath : wonderful
Originally posted by shetline
The article seems wildly unscientific, with little or no methodology to limit variables, no mention of using controls like dead or inorganic matter, no blinding or double-blinding, no outside corroboration... and that old telltale sign of a great deal of pseudoscience... excuses for why the results aren't repeatable.
i was a bit bothered by the unscientific nature of it too, but he did make some attempts. he did try inanimate objects and found that they didn't respond. and, there were others who were able to do similar experiments (the students with the spider). i'd be interested in finding a galvanometer myself, and doing a bit of my own tests.
when it comes down to it, the theory seems pretty fetched. but, i can't think of better one. i wonder if the meter gave any noticeable reaction without any negative thoughts from him (or any other attuned life form).
A waste of perfectly good sleep.
Originally posted by DiscoCow
"What is consciousness?"
A waste of perfectly good sleep.
No, you are 'partly' conscious during sleep
Originally posted by kelib
No, you are 'partly' conscious during sleep
Nitpicker
Originally posted by DiscoCow
Nitpicker
Maybe
Originally posted by Moogs
Anyone who saw the second installment of LoTR knows that plants are not only conscious, but can walk and talk too! Sheesh.
Have you ever seen a Mimosa plant.?
That's the plant that has leaves that collapse if you so much as touch them..
It's fast, (not as quick as you or I would move away from a stimuli) but nevertheless it's " greased lightning " by plant world standards.
The plant equivilant of a nervous system in development perhaps ?
8)