No new (970) Powermacs at WWDC. I don't know where all these other rumors come from, but 970 Powermacs are NOT currently in production, or at least, they are only gearing up the lines. Maybe the rumors meant PPC 970 production, which is in full swing.
Well, aside from the reports that appear to come from multiple sources which all agree that there will be PM970s at WWDC, there are the reports that the 1.42 PMs are EOL'd.
Now, having machines for developers might explain the PM970 at WWDC rumors, but what will replace the current 1.42 GHz PM's?
Quote:
But obviously there's a significant lag between the time when a CPU rolls out of the Fishkill plant's driveway, and when a 970 Powermac rolls into an Apple warehouse.
Not that significant, actually. If this chip has been in development for 2+ years, there's no reason why the only thing left to do wouldn't be to slap them on waiting mobos, assemble and ship. That would be about 3-4 weeks from when the chips are air freighted to the assembly plants before the first boxed systems began getting through customs. (Assuming no issues in ramping up production.)
So if PPC970 production is "in full swing", when did it start? About a month ago? If so, then there could well be significant numbers of boxed units in the pipelines.
Keep in mind we've only ever heard 1.4ghz and 1.8ghz. So don't be surprised if there's 4 option, 2 upper and 2 lower scale.
Okay.
2.2 and 2.6 gig 970s? for the 'Upper'?
Hmmm.
I dunno. The more I hear the less I think anyone knows. I can't believe the WWDC feed to Germans, Apple Stores (and the rearranged furniture...) and...and...the leaks to C/net/eWeek and the 'injunctions' against rumour sites are for nothing. Even Frank in on the prank pulling our yank? Doesn't add up.
Even if Apple only shipped the '222' models ie single cpu, low end then that would be something. Are they going to turn the Apple Store's into music retail capable outlets?
Something is afoot. How do you THINK Apple builds hoopla re: their products? Secrecy? Discreet leaks of false info'? Moles? Whatever Apple is or isn't doing.
Well, aside from the reports that appear to come from multiple sources which all agree that there will be PM970s at WWDC, there are the reports that the 1.42 PMs are EOL'd.
Now, having machines for developers might explain the PM970 at WWDC rumors, but what will replace the current 1.42 GHz PM's?
Not that significant, actually. If this chip has been in development for 2+ years, there's no reason why the only thing left to do wouldn't be to slap them on waiting mobos, assemble and ship. That would be about 3-4 weeks from when the chips are air freighted to the assembly plants before the first boxed systems began getting through customs. (Assuming no issues in ramping up production.)
So if PPC970 production is "in full swing", when did it start? About a month ago? If so, then there could well be significant numbers of boxed units in the pipelines.
Well maybe the 7457's are finally ready for the PM's and PB's
Well maybe the 7457's are finally ready for the PM's and PB's
So Apple is planning on announcing speed bumped PMs 3-4 mos before announcing availability of systems with completely new mobos and a new processor? Knowing that the sales of the Pro line are at an all time low? With sales the way they are, they'd have to EOL the speed bumped models a week or two after they were announced just to clear inventory before announcing PM970s. It doesn't make sense.
Honestly, this "666" (nuber of the beast, 666 mhz, ect. isnt this something marketing avoids like th plague?) is under-powered for a "Uber-Mac" workstation.
Think about it, it is just a Dual with updated Motherbord technology (some more, som less expensive) that needs to be updated anyway. The current duals start at $2000, and the market wont like a price increase of much more than $200 for the low end Dual. The high end is basically what we would expect from the high-end Dual ($3800), with the addition of 2 PCI slots, which the vast majoriaty of users dont need, and few products to fill them with. Not much here to warrent an "Uber-Mac" title, for that Apple really needs Quads, ranging from $4000-$7000.
But obviously there's a significant lag between the time when a CPU rolls out of the Fishkill plant's driveway, and when a 970 Powermac rolls into an Apple warehouse
(it doesn't take that long.)(no i do not work in the supply chain)
the sept. release date. - why a smeagol then?
666 - i think apple would have picked a different name.
444- no mention of one. if 666 is upscale and 222 is downscale what is apple going to sell to the 444 crowd.
why a sat. broadcast for 10.3 only? didn't do it last year for jag.
reports of EOL g4s
those are my pre-coffee thoughts. they may change if dan responds with more info.i buy the fragment idea if apple's goal is for a cheap tower.(nforce on low end?)
The pessimists have it SO easy. If they are wrong, then the excitement of new products will wash over us all and we'll forget about them. If they are right, they get to make us feel even more depressed by saying "I told you so". Damn them.
Be that as it may, I have a hard time believing a 69 year old guy named Dapper Dan who's native language is Owabe.
Currently there is two models of I mac (with differents mobo), two models of I book , three models of powerbook, and only one case for the powermac.
It's not unbelievable that there will be two towers : a mini one and a huge one.
The only problem is Smeagol : is smeagol here, only for a demo, i mean if they only need an OS for a demo, why do not use a developper version of Panther. If smeagol is needed for a demo then Panther is late, and will have problem to ship in september.
Thegelding : the 222 will be perfect for my office : i am sure a single PPC 970 will kick the ass of my old beige G3 333.
Thegelding : the 222 will be perfect for my office : i am sure a single PPC 970 will kick the ass of my old beige G3 333.
i agree powerdoc...i would love a 222 at my office...i would love a 222 for the kids, hell, i would love a 222 for myself probably too...the thing is apple, because the g4 was so slow to advance, has gotten people addicted to dual processors...many see dual and quads as the future of computers...for apple to only offer duals on seriously pro machines will tick off the semi pros (of which there are many and more everyday)...the 222 would be a great machine and would sell tons...the 666 will be a great machine and sell some...the 444 would be a great machine and would diffenently sell more than the 666...
that said...i would believe the thinksecret and the ai people over a newbie posting 8 days before an apple event (the normal time for wild speculation to begin)...
So Apple is planning on announcing speed bumped PMs 3-4 mos before announcing availability of systems with completely new mobos and a new processor? Knowing that the sales of the Pro line are at an all time low? With sales the way they are, they'd have to EOL the speed bumped models a week or two after they were announced just to clear inventory before announcing PM970s. It doesn't make sense.
None of it makes sense. Apple can't release a slapped together low speed 970, it will kill them in the press. They'll probably give out (sell) some 970's to main stream developersat WWDC (behind closed doors) and announce that the 970's will be out in August (end). They can still have an update to 10.2.6 and put out some 7457's (at least in the PB at 1.2 GHz) and maybe at speeds up to 1.6 GHz (DP for the PM's). Many people aren't keeping track of the 970's and they need PB's and PM's and are willing (need) to buy now.
...and Apple is having fun with the rumours to keep all the geeks occupied and drooling over the possibilities, they then come out with DP 1.8 GHZ along their current upgrade path (MHz myth and all ya know) in August and all is well.
That is, and has been, my question for some time. Unfortunately everyone seems to see this question and immediately the level of rose tinting in their glasses rises and they move on to more speculation about über quad-core 2.5Ghz G6s that will be ready to ship on the 23rd.
I guess this happens before every event and I shouldn't be surprised. The rumor mill grinds up rumors or rumours of rumors and what comes out in the meal is the hopes and dreams, but unfortunately the reasonable expectations get left out. Then someone like Moki comes along and throws a dose of cold-water-reality on the situation...the particular thread returns to normal for about 5 posts, then the rumor mill starts grinding away, spitting out more and more unrealistic predictions.
If PMs are released in Sept, then I wouldn't be surprised if they shipped with Smeagol since we have no idea whatsoever when Panther will be released. The idea that a preview version of a Major OS change will be given to Devs in July (devs won't get back from WWDC until then), they will find all the bugs (that will pop up during this time), and that Apple will fix them and have a release ready 2-3 months later is a tad overly optimistic IMO. I hope I can buy myself Panther for x-mas.
None of it makes sense. Apple can't release a slapped together low speed 970, it will kill them in the press.
Ok, but what's preventing them from shipping a non-slapped together, high speed 970 based system?
Quote:
They'll probably give out (sell) some 970's to main stream developersat WWDC (behind closed doors) and announce that the 970's will be out in August (end).
And what do they sell when the supply of 1.42s is exhausted in June?
Quote:
They can still have an update to 10.2.6 and put out some 7457's (at least in the PB at 1.2 GHz) and maybe at speeds up to 1.6 GHz (DP for the PM's). Many people aren't keeping track of the 970's and they need PB's and PM's and are willing (need) to buy now.
I have no idea about PBs. There is no PB EOL'd (I think.)
But, again, why ship speed bumped PM's just to EOL them a week or two later? Just repeating your argument doesn't make it any more reasonable. It's too expensive to invest in a change like this unless you plan to carry the line for at least 6 mos so you can make back your operating costs.
If you insist that Apple wil use MPC7457's in the line of PM's that is to replace the EOL'd 1.42s, then you are really arguing for no PM970s until next year at the earliest. Is that what you are saying?
Also, why EOL just the 1.42s if the MPC7457 is available? Why not speed bump the entire line? Lord knows it needs it and the overhead is the same since they all use the same mobo.
Quote:
...and Apple is having fun with the rumours to keep all the geeks occupied and drooling over the possibilities, they then come out with DP 1.8 GHZ along their current upgrade path (MHz myth and all ya know) in August and all is well.
Apple doesn't play games with it's bottom line. It could care less about rumors except insofar as they affect stockprice or revenues. And not having any high end PM inventory through the month of July would do both. You just don't EOL a product with 4 weeks channel inventory 8 weeks before shipping a replacement. Got that?
Another vote for the less PCI but more processors. I want a gamer mac and dont need anything but maybe dual screens and a 7.1 audio card.
But I would like dual processors since many games are starting to support it.. And otherwise, its just nice to be able to switch between a game and the Finder instantly...
Alpeh One on one processor, Doom on the other one..
And dont start some 'buy a PC' flaming now... I wont!
...because the g4 was so slow to advance, has gotten people addicted to dual processors...many see dual and quads as the future of computers...for apple to only offer duals on seriously pro machines will tick off the semi pros (of which there are many and more everyday)...
g
Apple has spent a lot of money on "selling" duals with and without success. I think that it is a better deal now that we have a capable OS, though at work I cant take advantage of it becouse we are still on 9.2. I think that duals ARE the future as we get more capable multithreaded apps becouse we are doing more with our computers sumultaniously. OS X allows us to do this better both with singles and duals (and beyond). I personally think that Apple needs to take advantage of the lower cost of PPC chips to lead the market into MP systems in both pro and consumer lines.
Hey hey.... don't give them all those ideas I need all those PCI slots
for stuff that will never come out of course.
Just buy the machine with all of them in there anyhow.
I remember when I had to do onsite tech support and we'd set people up those fiery servers (about the size of a toaster) and they'd ask "...thats my server that little thing" Its all about having lots to show. Sides imagine a big awesome apple logo on the side of a case. i hope they put a window and some cool lights in there like those wierd PC cases, but do it tasteful
Hey hey.... don't give them all those ideas I need all those PCI slots
for stuff that will never come out of course.
Just buy the machine with all of them in there anyhow.
I remember when I had to do onsite tech support and we'd set people up those fiery servers (about the size of a toaster) and they'd ask "...thats my server that little thing" Its all about having lots to show. Sides imagine a big awesome apple logo on the side of a case. i hope they put a window and some cool lights in there like those wierd PC cases, but do it tasteful
Seriously though, what can you fill all those PCI slots with on the Mac today?
[list=1][*]FW 2 card[*]USB 2 card (though #1 and #2 could/are combined and at minimum #1 is built into the computer anyway)[*]ATA controller, for more drives and/or serial ATA.[*]Network card[*]SCSI[*]ATI video card[*]AV card (does anyone make a pro card for the Mac anymore?[/list=1]
Items 1-4 arnt really needed, at least untill the next generation of those technologies. I could see some use for a SCSI card for an ever decreasing few customers. A second video card is not really needed becouse most of the cards available today support 2 monitors, and the AGP slot gives better performance than a standard PCI. A pro video in, and possibly a pro audio in are the two most likely cards that a minority of the pro users would need, and since video is increasingly moving to a digital format using FireWire connectivity the video in cards will be an increasingly margenalized market.
Comments
Originally posted by Dapper Dan
No new (970) Powermacs at WWDC. I don't know where all these other rumors come from, but 970 Powermacs are NOT currently in production, or at least, they are only gearing up the lines. Maybe the rumors meant PPC 970 production, which is in full swing.
Well, aside from the reports that appear to come from multiple sources which all agree that there will be PM970s at WWDC, there are the reports that the 1.42 PMs are EOL'd.
Now, having machines for developers might explain the PM970 at WWDC rumors, but what will replace the current 1.42 GHz PM's?
But obviously there's a significant lag between the time when a CPU rolls out of the Fishkill plant's driveway, and when a 970 Powermac rolls into an Apple warehouse.
Not that significant, actually. If this chip has been in development for 2+ years, there's no reason why the only thing left to do wouldn't be to slap them on waiting mobos, assemble and ship. That would be about 3-4 weeks from when the chips are air freighted to the assembly plants before the first boxed systems began getting through customs. (Assuming no issues in ramping up production.)
So if PPC970 production is "in full swing", when did it start? About a month ago? If so, then there could well be significant numbers of boxed units in the pipelines.
Keep in mind we've only ever heard 1.4ghz and 1.8ghz. So don't be surprised if there's 4 option, 2 upper and 2 lower scale.
Okay.
2.2 and 2.6 gig 970s? for the 'Upper'?
Hmmm.
I dunno. The more I hear the less I think anyone knows. I can't believe the WWDC feed to Germans, Apple Stores (and the rearranged furniture...) and...and...the leaks to C/net/eWeek and the 'injunctions' against rumour sites are for nothing. Even Frank in on the prank pulling our yank? Doesn't add up.
Even if Apple only shipped the '222' models ie single cpu, low end then that would be something. Are they going to turn the Apple Store's into music retail capable outlets?
Something is afoot. How do you THINK Apple builds hoopla re: their products? Secrecy? Discreet leaks of false info'? Moles? Whatever Apple is or isn't doing.
It's working.
Lemon Bon Bon
Originally posted by Tomb of the Unknown
Well, aside from the reports that appear to come from multiple sources which all agree that there will be PM970s at WWDC, there are the reports that the 1.42 PMs are EOL'd.
Now, having machines for developers might explain the PM970 at WWDC rumors, but what will replace the current 1.42 GHz PM's?
Not that significant, actually. If this chip has been in development for 2+ years, there's no reason why the only thing left to do wouldn't be to slap them on waiting mobos, assemble and ship. That would be about 3-4 weeks from when the chips are air freighted to the assembly plants before the first boxed systems began getting through customs. (Assuming no issues in ramping up production.)
So if PPC970 production is "in full swing", when did it start? About a month ago? If so, then there could well be significant numbers of boxed units in the pipelines.
Well maybe the 7457's are finally ready for the PM's and PB's
Originally posted by Bigc
Well maybe the 7457's are finally ready for the PM's and PB's
So Apple is planning on announcing speed bumped PMs 3-4 mos before announcing availability of systems with completely new mobos and a new processor? Knowing that the sales of the Pro line are at an all time low? With sales the way they are, they'd have to EOL the speed bumped models a week or two after they were announced just to clear inventory before announcing PM970s. It doesn't make sense.
Think about it, it is just a Dual with updated Motherbord technology (some more, som less expensive) that needs to be updated anyway. The current duals start at $2000, and the market wont like a price increase of much more than $200 for the low end Dual. The high end is basically what we would expect from the high-end Dual ($3800), with the addition of 2 PCI slots, which the vast majoriaty of users dont need, and few products to fill them with. Not much here to warrent an "Uber-Mac" title, for that Apple really needs Quads, ranging from $4000-$7000.
But obviously there's a significant lag between the time when a CPU rolls out of the Fishkill plant's driveway, and when a 970 Powermac rolls into an Apple warehouse
(it doesn't take that long.)(no i do not work in the supply chain)
the sept. release date. - why a smeagol then?
666 - i think apple would have picked a different name.
444- no mention of one. if 666 is upscale and 222 is downscale what is apple going to sell to the 444 crowd.
why a sat. broadcast for 10.3 only? didn't do it last year for jag.
reports of EOL g4s
those are my pre-coffee thoughts. they may change if dan responds with more info.i buy the fragment idea if apple's goal is for a cheap tower.(nforce on low end?)
Be that as it may, I have a hard time believing a 69 year old guy named Dapper Dan who's native language is Owabe.
Not much here to warrent an "Uber-Mac" title, for that Apple really needs Quads, ranging from $4000-$7000.
Given the 'mhz' perception, I'd a thought duals would stay below 2 K with quads in the 2 and a half K to 4K bracket.
Still. There's alot of confusing reports knocking about.
This level of rumour masturbation hasn't been seen since...well...pre-iMac2.
There'll be riots if at least one 970 isn't intro'd!
Lemon Bon Bon
Originally posted by keyboardf12
666 - i think apple would have picked a different name.
444- no mention of one. if 666 is upscale and 222 is downscale what is apple going to sell to the 444 crowd.
222 = 37 * 6.
444 = 37 * 12
666 = 37 * 18
Perhaps there are designs code named F37, L37 and R37, those would be the 6th, 12th and 18th letters of the alphabet. "Q" is #17.
(still have not had my coffee but i don't understand the math you showed.)
what does 6,12,18 have to do with it.?
It's not unbelievable that there will be two towers : a mini one and a huge one.
The only problem is Smeagol : is smeagol here, only for a demo, i mean if they only need an OS for a demo, why do not use a developper version of Panther. If smeagol is needed for a demo then Panther is late, and will have problem to ship in september.
Thegelding : the 222 will be perfect for my office : i am sure a single PPC 970 will kick the ass of my old beige G3 333.
Originally posted by TheFly
I can't imagine Panther will be that exciting.
Perhaps you'd better work on improving your imagination then.
Originally posted by Powerdoc
Thegelding : the 222 will be perfect for my office : i am sure a single PPC 970 will kick the ass of my old beige G3 333.
i agree powerdoc...i would love a 222 at my office...i would love a 222 for the kids, hell, i would love a 222 for myself probably too...the thing is apple, because the g4 was so slow to advance, has gotten people addicted to dual processors...many see dual and quads as the future of computers...for apple to only offer duals on seriously pro machines will tick off the semi pros (of which there are many and more everyday)...the 222 would be a great machine and would sell tons...the 666 will be a great machine and sell some...the 444 would be a great machine and would diffenently sell more than the 666...
that said...i would believe the thinksecret and the ai people over a newbie posting 8 days before an apple event (the normal time for wild speculation to begin)...
g
Originally posted by Tomb of the Unknown
So Apple is planning on announcing speed bumped PMs 3-4 mos before announcing availability of systems with completely new mobos and a new processor? Knowing that the sales of the Pro line are at an all time low? With sales the way they are, they'd have to EOL the speed bumped models a week or two after they were announced just to clear inventory before announcing PM970s. It doesn't make sense.
None of it makes sense. Apple can't release a slapped together low speed 970, it will kill them in the press. They'll probably give out (sell) some 970's to main stream developersat WWDC (behind closed doors) and announce that the 970's will be out in August (end). They can still have an update to 10.2.6 and put out some 7457's (at least in the PB at 1.2 GHz) and maybe at speeds up to 1.6 GHz (DP for the PM's). Many people aren't keeping track of the 970's and they need PB's and PM's and are willing (need) to buy now.
...and Apple is having fun with the rumours to keep all the geeks occupied and drooling over the possibilities, they then come out with DP 1.8 GHZ along their current upgrade path (MHz myth and all ya know) in August and all is well.
Originally posted by JLL
Says who?
That is, and has been, my question for some time. Unfortunately everyone seems to see this question and immediately the level of rose tinting in their glasses rises and they move on to more speculation about über quad-core 2.5Ghz G6s that will be ready to ship on the 23rd.
I guess this happens before every event and I shouldn't be surprised. The rumor mill grinds up rumors or rumours of rumors and what comes out in the meal is the hopes and dreams, but unfortunately the reasonable expectations get left out. Then someone like Moki comes along and throws a dose of cold-water-reality on the situation...the particular thread returns to normal for about 5 posts, then the rumor mill starts grinding away, spitting out more and more unrealistic predictions.
If PMs are released in Sept, then I wouldn't be surprised if they shipped with Smeagol since we have no idea whatsoever when Panther will be released. The idea that a preview version of a Major OS change will be given to Devs in July (devs won't get back from WWDC until then), they will find all the bugs (that will pop up during this time), and that Apple will fix them and have a release ready 2-3 months later is a tad overly optimistic IMO. I hope I can buy myself Panther for x-mas.
Originally posted by Bigc
None of it makes sense. Apple can't release a slapped together low speed 970, it will kill them in the press.
Ok, but what's preventing them from shipping a non-slapped together, high speed 970 based system?
They'll probably give out (sell) some 970's to main stream developersat WWDC (behind closed doors) and announce that the 970's will be out in August (end).
And what do they sell when the supply of 1.42s is exhausted in June?
They can still have an update to 10.2.6 and put out some 7457's (at least in the PB at 1.2 GHz) and maybe at speeds up to 1.6 GHz (DP for the PM's). Many people aren't keeping track of the 970's and they need PB's and PM's and are willing (need) to buy now.
I have no idea about PBs. There is no PB EOL'd (I think.)
But, again, why ship speed bumped PM's just to EOL them a week or two later? Just repeating your argument doesn't make it any more reasonable. It's too expensive to invest in a change like this unless you plan to carry the line for at least 6 mos so you can make back your operating costs.
If you insist that Apple wil use MPC7457's in the line of PM's that is to replace the EOL'd 1.42s, then you are really arguing for no PM970s until next year at the earliest. Is that what you are saying?
Also, why EOL just the 1.42s if the MPC7457 is available? Why not speed bump the entire line? Lord knows it needs it and the overhead is the same since they all use the same mobo.
...and Apple is having fun with the rumours to keep all the geeks occupied and drooling over the possibilities, they then come out with DP 1.8 GHZ along their current upgrade path (MHz myth and all ya know) in August and all is well.
Apple doesn't play games with it's bottom line. It could care less about rumors except insofar as they affect stockprice or revenues. And not having any high end PM inventory through the month of July would do both. You just don't EOL a product with 4 weeks channel inventory 8 weeks before shipping a replacement. Got that?
But I would like dual processors since many games are starting to support it.. And otherwise, its just nice to be able to switch between a game and the Finder instantly...
Alpeh One on one processor, Doom on the other one..
And dont start some 'buy a PC' flaming now... I wont!
Originally posted by thegelding
...because the g4 was so slow to advance, has gotten people addicted to dual processors...many see dual and quads as the future of computers...for apple to only offer duals on seriously pro machines will tick off the semi pros (of which there are many and more everyday)...
g
Apple has spent a lot of money on "selling" duals with and without success. I think that it is a better deal now that we have a capable OS, though at work I cant take advantage of it becouse we are still on 9.2. I think that duals ARE the future as we get more capable multithreaded apps becouse we are doing more with our computers sumultaniously. OS X allows us to do this better both with singles and duals (and beyond). I personally think that Apple needs to take advantage of the lower cost of PPC chips to lead the market into MP systems in both pro and consumer lines.
for stuff that will never come out of course.
Just buy the machine with all of them in there anyhow.
I remember when I had to do onsite tech support and we'd set people up those fiery servers (about the size of a toaster) and they'd ask "...thats my server that little thing" Its all about having lots to show. Sides imagine a big awesome apple logo on the side of a case. i hope they put a window and some cool lights in there like those wierd PC cases, but do it tasteful
Originally posted by kraig911
Hey hey.... don't give them all those ideas I need all those PCI slots
for stuff that will never come out of course.
Just buy the machine with all of them in there anyhow.
I remember when I had to do onsite tech support and we'd set people up those fiery servers (about the size of a toaster) and they'd ask "...thats my server that little thing" Its all about having lots to show. Sides imagine a big awesome apple logo on the side of a case. i hope they put a window and some cool lights in there like those wierd PC cases, but do it tasteful
Seriously though, what can you fill all those PCI slots with on the Mac today?
[list=1][*]FW 2 card[*]USB 2 card (though #1 and #2 could/are combined and at minimum #1 is built into the computer anyway)[*]ATA controller, for more drives and/or serial ATA.[*]Network card[*]SCSI[*]ATI video card[*]AV card (does anyone make a pro card for the Mac anymore?[/list=1]
Items 1-4 arnt really needed, at least untill the next generation of those technologies. I could see some use for a SCSI card for an ever decreasing few customers. A second video card is not really needed becouse most of the cards available today support 2 monitors, and the AGP slot gives better performance than a standard PCI. A pro video in, and possibly a pro audio in are the two most likely cards that a minority of the pro users would need, and since video is increasingly moving to a digital format using FireWire connectivity the video in cards will be an increasingly margenalized market.