What about an Apple Consumer Home Server
There has always been speculation, but what would y'all like to see in an Apple Consumer Home Server? All the features of the X Server at a more affordable less industry powerful price? A TVR program for recording shows? Built-in network router/hub/switch to be a real home server? I am thinking that it would use Mac OS X, but with a few more applications installed...
The features I would like to see:
The features I would like to see:
- System Preferenecs be customized for the system
- SquirrelMail already installed
- A Rendezvous created network map, I mean, hey, wouldn't that be sorta nify?
- An application like EyeTV to watch TV with, however, more big screen
- XServe ability to swap HDs
- More UIs for Termianl only customization (Web Server and E-mail Server and a whole bunch of stuff)
Comments
Consumer Server = oxymoron
The whole concept of having a server in a consumer environment is unnecessary. Consumers often have enough trouble working with clients.. adding an extra server into the mix for which the clients are to be attached would not help.
In fact, the whole purpose of Rendezvous would be to eliminate the desire or need for a "home server." With Rendezvous, every node in the network is both a client and a server.
How do you want System Prefs to be changed? What could be changed for such a system and more importantly why? Having a different set of preferences for each product like this (iBook, PowerBook, iMac, PowerMac) would be a terrible idea.
<strong> The whole concept of having a server in a consumer environment is unnecessary.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Not true at all. The concept of having a central server in the home is very important and opens up possibilities into the "next wave" of personal computing. The "Home LAN" is on its way. (I think the Japanese already have this sort of thing for the home).
The idea is closer to reality than one may think. It just takes Americans longer to accept new technology unless it's dumped in their laps in a shiny package with a pretty bow on top.
[ 12-31-2002: Message edited by: MacLuv ]</p>
<strong>I've postulated this in the past and have been met with a resounding chorus of "why do we need THAT?" by all assembled. I firmly believe that there's SOME market potential out there....how much is the real question.</strong><hr></blockquote>
a lot?
I think people would pay if they already have two or three computers and they want the features that the modern (money enchanced) family wants such as the ability to run their own industrial strength web, file, print, and mail server without even realizing it.... Setting up the server should be as setting up the client! <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" /> <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
That said, you get 99% of an Apple Consumer Home Server by simply buying a Mac with an AirPort card. They can all serve as software base stations. They all have Apache and the full suite of server daemons preinstalled and available with the click of a button (or checkbox). They all have Rendezvous. They all have FireWire (for FW drives) and Ethernet (for bridges to wired networks; e.g. network printers and broadband routers). They all have USB Printer Sharing, to extend the network's capabilities. From the iTunes/Rendezvoud demo, it looks like the iApps will get in on the act, too.
So my answer is that it's already there. The iMac LCD is a great little server for this sort of thing, complete with attached console.
One other reason it might not be taking off is a paucity of additional services, and the inability to attach things other than computers and USB printers. TCP/IP over FireWire allows any FW devices to get in on the act as well, and that opens up worlds of possibilities. Consider that FW is being pushed hard as a connector for A/V equipment (including home entertainment components). But that's a few years down the road.
Think different.
<strong>Not true at all. The concept of having a central server in the home is very important and opens up possibilities into the "next wave" of personal computing. The "Home LAN" is on its way. (I think the Japanese already have this sort of thing for the home).
The idea is closer to reality than one may think. It just takes Americans longer to accept new technology unless it's dumped in their laps in a shiny package with a pretty bow on top.
Why is it important? What kind of possibilities?
Every desktop Mac can already potentially function as a server (and indeed, in many cases do). Consumers are itching to run their own mail servers, they just don't know it? Uh...
Indeed, the home LAN is on its way. You can see that from the excitement surrounding Rendezvous and the flurry of routers and wireless base stations that are appearing in stores. That doesn't mean Apple needs to market a server to consumers though.
It would make the most sense to me if it weren't a generalized "server" per se but some functional appliance, for example a TiVo-like machine with large storage space. Then after recording a show, it could serve it to any network/Rendezvous enabled device in the house, be it TV or computer.
<strong>
It would make the most sense to me if it weren't a generalized "server" per se but some functional appliance, for example a TiVo-like machine with large storage space. Then after recording a show, it could serve it to any network/Rendezvous enabled device in the house, be it TV or computer.
</strong>
<hr></blockquote>
completely agree on the way to implement this. if this machine is dead-quiet, good-looking and connecting&stocking&serving all the computers on the LAN(WLAN) it has a good chance.
my personal guess is they'll disguise it(or enchance if you like..) as PVR&GameConsole.
<strong>
It would make the most sense to me if it weren't a generalized "server" per se but some functional appliance, for example a TiVo-like machine with large storage space. Then after recording a show, it could serve it to any network/Rendezvous enabled device in the house, be it TV or computer.
</strong>
<hr></blockquote>
completely agree on the way to implement this. if this machine is dead-quiet, good-looking and connecting&stocking&serving all the computers on the LAN(WLAN) it has a good chance.
my personal guess is they'll disguise it(or enchance if you like..) as PVR&GameConsole.
Peer2Peer home networks = good
Your home entertainment compture shares the music
Your office computer shares the printer
Your mainly-internet computer shares the internet
Efficient Resource Management Made Easy By Apple?
Barto
I've posted a couple of times in various threads in FH on this subject, and it does seem to be an argument that goes round in the same circle every time.
I - FWIW - am in the pro-camp: I believe that Apple should consider creating a highly pre-configured Digital Hub Server Appliance, combining PVR, Digital Audio, Set-top Box and Home Comms (Voice Mail & Fax) in terms of functionality, and with LAN, W-LAN, FireWire, and WAN (xDSL) for comms and expansion.
Such a box could act as a Sherlock proxy delivering EPGs for television and digital radio and would fit really neatly into the whole 'wired' consumer electronics vision of the HAVi consortium (go <a href="http://www.havi.org/"; target="_blank">here</a> for more info), which promotes FW and Java/Jini as a means of connecting everything in the home. Whether any of this has any relevance to the whole IP over FW development is anyone's guess.
Apple needs to find a way of countering the new "Windows XP Digital blah blah" edition not necessarily because of that product, but because it proves that M$ is starting to aim the siege guns at Apple's technology lead in that market, a situation that will only get worse because of the perception within the media industry that M$ 'feels their pain' on the whole DRM issue.
I would argue that the technology industry's next two battlegrounds are the "digital home" market and the challenge to deliver compelling product, content and services for the 3G mobile telephony market. I don't normally believe in doom-mongering, but Apple has to put up credible technological contributions and create viable revenue streams from these markets to avoid marginalisation and, ultimately, commercial death.
Just my 2¢, feel free to differ.
<strong>Peer2Peer home networks = good</strong><hr></blockquote>
I think this sums up perfectly what Apple is thinking about home networking.
Another thing, "Home LAN" != "Home Server". The two are orthoganal issues.
Apple started laying the ground work for this with Airport. Rendevous is phase two. Rendevous-enabled iApps is phase three.
You need to think in terms of capability rather than specific pieces of equipment or software.
What does the consumer/home user want to DO?
1. I want to share the music I have ripped and have in my iTunes library with the rest of my family.
2. I want to share my calendars.
3. I want to share my address book.
4. I want to share my iPhoto library.
All of this is perfectly possible with Rendevous.
Now what about other capabilities?
I want to "automatically" program my video recorder without the typical VCR remote control gymnastics (think iCal + DVR here). I want to play my QT videos through my TV. I want to play my iTunes library through my stereo. Again, a server not necessarily required. Rendevous-enabled stereo, TV, etc.
I used to think something like iServe would be a good idea. Not so much anymore. I want FEWER devices in my house...but devices that are more capable. This is where the software comes in. It's not about servers...its about capabilities. Servers are ONLY useful to the extent that they are capable of providing these capabilities where current hardware is deficient.
<strong>I - FWIW - am in the pro-camp: I believe that Apple should consider creating a highly pre-configured Digital Hub Server Appliance, combining PVR, Digital Audio, Set-top Box and Home Comms (Voice Mail & Fax) in terms of functionality, and with LAN, W-LAN, FireWire, and WAN (xDSL) for comms and expansion..</strong><hr></blockquote>
I agree with a lot of what you are saying, and I think that there is going to be a big battle in these areas. I do however see a big problem with the box that you describe, and that is that it does too much. For Apple to be successfull in becoming the "digital hub" that they are going for they have to align themselves with companies or compete directly agenst them. The product that you are descirbing would compete agenst Sony, Yamaha, RCA, Philips, and so on in the Audio Video arena as well as in the telephony areas that you describe. That would be an extreamly bad move for Apple to make when they are trying to get these companies to support FireWire and soon FW2, Randevue, iSync and other Apple technologies (QuickTime).
I think that at some point a home server will be needed, and if done right could be used to get all of these companies on Apple's side, just as Randevue is getting a number of supporters. I dont agree with the idea that it should be a "set-top" box, but rather a storage and management hardware/software solution that is used to link a home using ethernet, AirPort 2, Bluetooth, and FireWire. It needs to be just powerfull enough to handle the multiple tasks that it needs to do (sending the digital file for the Two Towers to your Sony PVR for playback, while taking voicemail, maintaining a Firewall, and Web page, etc.) I think that Apple has most all of the technology to build such a device right now, though I dont think that they could do if at a price that would allow it to succeed. I'm basically thinking of a "box" that would sit in a utility room, or in a sterio "rack" that is roughly the size of a sterio amp. 2-4 low cost processors (G3 "blades" connected via FW2? or Hypertransport possibly or G4's), the more the merrier for multi-tasking, 512-1 Gig of memory (not sure how much would be needed), and at least 2 hot swapable drive bays in addition to 1 drive for the OS and apps needed for it to work. As for the OS, think OS X server with the GUI removed. Its maintained via your Mac...possibly even a PC...so no real need for a monitor. Target life for such an appliance should be more than 5 years (TV's last an easy 10 years) and priced under $500.
<strong>
I agree with a lot of what you are saying, and I think that there is going to be a big battle in these areas. I do however see a big problem with the box that you describe, and that is that it does too much. For Apple to be successfull in becoming the "digital hub" that they are going for they have to align themselves with companies or compete directly agenst them. The product that you are descirbing would compete agenst Sony, Yamaha, RCA, Philips, and so on in the Audio Video arena as well as in the telephony areas that you describe. That would be an extreamly bad move for Apple to make when they are trying to get these companies to support FireWire and soon FW2, Randevue, iSync and other Apple technologies (QuickTime).
I think that at some point a home server will be needed, and if done right could be used to get all of these companies on Apple's side, just as Randevue is getting a number of supporters. I dont agree with the idea that it should be a "set-top" box, but rather a storage and management hardware/software solution that is used to link a home using ethernet, AirPort 2, Bluetooth, and FireWire. It needs to be just powerfull enough to handle the multiple tasks that it needs to do (sending the digital file for the Two Towers to your Sony PVR for playback, while taking voicemail, maintaining a Firewall, and Web page, etc.) I think that Apple has most all of the technology to build such a device right now, though I dont think that they could do if at a price that would allow it to succeed. I'm basically thinking of a "box" that would sit in a utility room, or in a sterio "rack" that is roughly the size of a sterio amp. 2-4 low cost processors (G3 "blades" connected via FW2? or Hypertransport possibly or G4's), the more the merrier for multi-tasking, 512-1 Gig of memory (not sure how much would be needed), and at least 2 hot swapable drive bays in addition to 1 drive for the OS and apps needed for it to work. As for the OS, think OS X server with the GUI removed. Its maintained via your Mac...possibly even a PC...so no real need for a monitor. Target life for such an appliance should be more than 5 years (TV's last an easy 10 years) and priced under $500.</strong><hr></blockquote>
You just described something would cost roughly, maybe, 1500 bucks. 512MB to a Gig of RAM? 2 Hot swapable drives? Two proccesors, for under 500 bucks? Look at the iBook, the lowest priced computer Apple is making right now, and that is 1000 bucks for less capabilites than you are thinking of.you are living in a dream world, one surrounded by money trees that grow money, and such
<img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" /> <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" /> <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
Anyway, a $300 Tivo style box would work just fine for most people. Store your MP3s, do Tivo, basic stuff here, no need to run a lot of other tasks for most people. Add a good firewall router that is easy to use, a web page server and a couple of other features maybe. Using Rendezvous and VPN to allow Joe at home and Joe at work to have access to his music and movies and television shows... It doesn't really have to run full fledged Mac OS server, it can be more of an embedded device server with stripped down FreeBSD or something like that, more like an iPod...
<strong>
You just described something would cost roughly, maybe, 1500 bucks. 512MB to a Gig of RAM? 2 Hot swapable drives? Two proccesors, for under 500 bucks? Look at the iBook, the lowest priced computer Apple is making right now, and that is 1000 bucks for less capabilites than you are thinking of.you are living in a dream world, one surrounded by money trees that grow money, and such
<img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" /> <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" /> <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>
I didnt say that Apple could make it right now for a price that I think that it would need to be at to be successfull. But also look at what I am proposing, a basic file/web server with stipped down OS and a few apps to allow you to maintain it via a Mac. It dosnt need to be "blazingly" fast, but does need to be able to efficiently handle multiple tasks at once. For this 2 600 mhz G4's (possibly even G3's, it dosnt neccessarely need a SIMD) would be better than 1 Ghz G4.
Memory, a 512 PC 133 DIMM sells for under $100 right now, and has been selling retail for less than $50 withing the last few months. With a minimal OS 512 might be all that is needed, I dont know....I would think that 1GB would be the most you would need. However you might be able to get away with 256 MB, OS X only "requires" 128 MB to run, so if you take Aqua off of it that might even be enough for the device that I am talking about
As far as hot swap dirves go, it just has to have the bays for them in that price, a built in 40 GB HD for the OS and Apps would still give you what, 20 GB minimum for storage? Thats good enough to get started. You would probably sell most of them with at least 1 extra drive right off the bat, which brings in more revenue.
I could even see a home "blade" server (say 8 blades), where you sold for cost a box with 1 processor "blade" and 2-4 open Hot swap drive bays. Offer the "blades" and drives as additions....when you need a more powerfull home serve rather than being forced to buy a new one, just add another CPU or drive.
I think that the main thing that would be needed to make this work is that it would need to be as inexpensive as possable for it to sell. Remember that this is an additional piece of hardware added to someones computer/AV system...almost like an amplifier in a sterio.
[ 01-01-2003: Message edited by: @homenow ]</p>
It would be the consumer Xserve with more A/V things, you see?
You can use the TV as your monitor, or an acutal monitor... <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" /> <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
<strong>I was thinking that it would be about the size of one of the old Desktop machines. Tall enough for PCI cards and such. Bluetooth keyboard and mouse. It should just be a machine that has special features. It still runs Mac OS X, still runs the GUI, still does all that, just in a different box. I mean, you can run OS X server on any machine, but the XServe runs it especially well, you know?
It would be the consumer Xserve with more A/V things, you see?
You can use the TV as your monitor, or an acutal monitor... <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" /> <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>
Make it as cheap as possable, and as propriatary as the market will allow so that you get as much revenure as possable out of Add ons. Make a custome FW "enclosurea" and plug for your drive bays, and trademark it so that not just anyone could sell drives that fit. Use standard memory, becouse not doing so would bring bad press, but, if you went the blade route you could have propriatary blades that no one else could sell (basically a trimed down Mobo), and that keeps the upgrade manufacturers from selling engineered daughter cards to upgrade it. Or you just build them to accept, say 4 Power PC chips in ziff sockets. The main thing would be to make the consumers come back to you for as many upgrades as possable to "extend" the life of the computer, while still bringing in revenue.