PowerPC cladogram

thttht
Posted:
in General Discussion edited January 2014
For my edification, and yours, what am I missing? What do I have wrong? I have excluded embedded processors, so no need to mention 405, 440, 8560, Book E processors et al. I'm looking at desktop class processors mostly. I think I'm missing 1 or 2 IBM mainframe PPC CPUs actually.



Code:




IBM Power2 Motorola 88000 bus design

| | |

| | |

------ --------- PPC 601 --------- 600 nm

| |

IBM | PPC 601v 500 nm

64 bit | |

PPC | ----------------------------------- Exponential

| | | | | | |

| | | | | | |

RS64 Power3 PPC 602 PPC 603 PPC 604 PPC 620 x704

| | (embedded) PPC 603e PPC 604e |

| | (only ) | | | 350 nm

| | | |

| | | | 250 nm

| | | |

RS64-II | PPC 750

| |

| PPC 755 220 nm

| |

| |

| IBM ----------------- Motorola

| | |

| |----------- PPC 7400

| | | |

| PPC 750cx | | 180 nm

Power4 PPC 750cxe Nintendo PPC 7410

| | Gekko PPC 7450

| | PPC 7451

---------- | PPC 7455

| | | | 130 nm

| | PPC 750fx (PPC 7457)

Power4+ | | |

| PPC 970 | |

| | (PPC 750gx) |

| | | |

| | | | 90 nm

(Power5) (PPC 970+) (Mojave-MP) (PPC 7457-RM)

|

(dual core 7457)









Now, does anybody know the prices for 7455, 7457 and 970 CPUs?

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 17
    pscatespscates Posts: 5,847member
    [sing-songy voice]SOMEBODY needs a girlfriend...[/sing-songy voice]



  • Reply 2 of 17
    henriokhenriok Posts: 537member
    I miss the IBM iStar- and pStar-processors. They seem to be PowerPC also since LinuxPPC run on them.
  • Reply 3 of 17
    eugeneeugene Posts: 8,254member
    Wasn't there a 603ev and 604ev (Mach5???)



    Those would correspond to the move from .35µ to .25µ, I guess.



    And shouldn't there be at least a dimished connection between the 604 series and 74xx family?
  • Reply 4 of 17
    wmfwmf Posts: 1,164member
    Power3 (630) is a derivative of the 620.



    You forgot Power3-II, RS64-III, and RS64-IV.



    Power4 is not a derivative of anything.
  • Reply 5 of 17
    thttht Posts: 2,812member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Eugene

    Wasn't there a 603ev and 604ev (Mach5???)



    Those would correspond to the move from .35µ to .25µ, I guess.




    Yes. They were both 250 nm processors, but I really didn't want to mess up the diagram by putting them in and represented them with lines. But more pedantry with process size and names can be good too. I'll work on it.



    Quote:

    And shouldn't there be at least a dimished connection between the 604 series and 74xx family?



    There is no relation between the 604 and the 74xx.
  • Reply 6 of 17
    thttht Posts: 2,812member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by wmf

    Power3 (630) is a derivative of the 620.



    There are differences in issue width, L1 cache architecture and execution units. Are you sure?



    Your mention of the 620 did remind me that the 620 is a 64 bit implementation of the 604. Units, issue-width, pipeline stages, et al, all seem to be the same, and I will alter



    Quote:

    You forgot Power3-II, RS64-III, and RS64-IV.



    Power3-II is 250 nm or 200 nm? And RS64-III and RS64-IV are both 200 nm?



    Quote:

    Power4 is not a derivative of anything.



    Since Power3 is a dual-FPU 5 issue wide CPU with the same L1 cache architecture, I'm going to consider the Power3 as a parent of the Power4
  • Reply 7 of 17
    henriokhenriok Posts: 537member
    Shouldn't there be a connection between 7400 and 970 since the latter uses AltiVec? And IIRC its implementation is more similar to 7400 than to 7450.
  • Reply 8 of 17
    chuckerchucker Posts: 5,089member
    Wrong forum



    The Gekko is based off the 750CXe, not the 750.



    Adding color could make similarities clearer, too. The 970 has a 7400-alike AltiVec; the 7450 has a more modern, but more costly implementation, so let's call it AltiVec+ or so.



    The Gekko has many additional commands.



    Btw, still no Linux port for the GameCube yet? Running OS X on a GameCube, hmmm...
  • Reply 9 of 17
    thttht Posts: 2,812member
    Totally revised diagram for metaphysical elegance. Note, the left side is IBM and the right side is Motorola.



    Code:




    IBM

    Power1

    | Apple,

    Power2 Motorola

    | |

    ------------------- | 800 nm

    | | |

    Power2 | | Motorola 88000

    Single Chip PowerPC ISA Bus Design

    | | |

    | --------------------------- |

    | | | |

    | | PPC 601 -------- 600 nm

    | | |

    IBM | | PPC 601v 500 nm

    Mainframe | | |

    PPC | | -----------

    | | | | |

    | | | ------- PPC 604 PPC 603

    RS64 Power3 | | |

    | | | | | Exponential

    | | | | PPC 603e |

    | | PPC 620 PPC 604e | x704

    | | | | | | 350 nm

    RS64-II | | |

    | | PPC 604ev PPC 603ev 250 nm

    | | | |

    | | PPC 750

    | | |

    | Power3-II IBM------------ Motorola

    | | | | 220 nm

    | | | PPC 755 AltiVec

    | | | | |

    | | | PPC 7400 ----

    RS64-III | PPC 750 | 200 mn

    RS64-IV | | |

    | | |

    Power4 ---- PPC 750cx PPC 7410 180 nm

    | | PPC 750cxe |

    | Nintendo | PPC 7450

    | Gekko | PPC 7451

    ---------- | | PPC 7455

    | | | | 130 nm

    | | AltiVec PPC 750fx (PPC 7457)

    Power4+ | | | |

    | PPC 970 -- | |

    | | (PPC 750gx) |

    | | | |

    | | | | 90 nm

    (Power5) (PPC 970+) (Mojave-MP) (PPC 7457-RM)

    |

    (dual core 7457)





  • Reply 10 of 17
    thttht Posts: 2,812member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Chucker

    Wrong forum



    So the MojaveMP is a PowerPC 750 based design married to the CoreConnect bus design? Or is it a new PPC architecture? Have to decipher the Naked Mole Rat rumor again.



    Quote:

    The Gekko is based off the 750CXe, not the 750.



    Since it only clocks at 400 to 485 MHz, I'll say it's based off of the 750cx.



    Quote:

    Adding color could make similarities clearer, too. The 970 has a 7400-alike AltiVec; the 7450 has a more modern, but more costly implementation, so let's call it AltiVec+ or so.



    I'm not considering this of much signification. It doesn't appear to have much signification in performance either.



    Quote:

    Btw, still no Linux port for the GameCube yet? Running OS X on a GameCube, hmmm...



    Certainly why not for OS X. There is probably a Linux port in the works.
  • Reply 11 of 17
    yevgenyyevgeny Posts: 1,148member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by THT

    Yes. They were both 250 nm processors, but I really didn't want to mess up the diagram by putting them in and represented them with lines. But more pedantry with process size and names can be good too. I'll work on it.



    You should add the 603ev. It was a pretty good chip and was used in quite a few Apple systems.
  • Reply 12 of 17
    yevgenyyevgeny Posts: 1,148member
    I miss exponential. Those guys were great. Too bad for them that the G3 was a really good chip and that Apple wanted to not go with a lesser party for their main CPU's. I can still remember pictures of 9600's with that monster heat duct and fan.



    I also miss the heyday of the PPC on the desktop: the generation after the first 601's when people were talking about PPC's in game consoles (602), portable PPC's (603), workstation PPC's (604) and super secret server PPC's (620). Nothing like four chips to generate consimer excitement for a platform.



    Right now, Apple has the 970 (workstation/server), the G4 (pro laptop/consumer chip), and the G3 (power conscious consumer). I can't wait for the 750GX and the 750VX to arrive (at which point in time I think the G4 will go bye bye). Things are looking good for the PPC ISA and it seems like there are going to be quite a few chip options for Apple in five to six months. Lots of chip options are the sign of a healthy platform.
  • Reply 13 of 17
    placeboplacebo Posts: 5,767member
    You people are bored. It's not the machine, it's what you do with the machine. As long as it's fast, it's fast.
  • Reply 14 of 17
    dfryerdfryer Posts: 140member
    nahhh, it's the machine.
  • Reply 15 of 17
    thttht Posts: 2,812member
    After constructing the diagram, I found it ironic that Apple's front side bus (memory bus) woes all these years traces all the way back to the decision of using the bus design from Motorola's 88k RISC CPU. So it is Motorola's fault after all! Hehe. No, just kidding. It's an unfair criticism of Moto. Apple should have jumped ship much earlier, but for some reason they thought Motorola could handle it.
  • Reply 16 of 17
    bodhibodhi Posts: 1,424member
    Going to General Discussion....
  • Reply 17 of 17
    thttht Posts: 2,812member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Yevgeny

    I miss exponential. Those guys were great. Too bad for them that the G3 was a really good chip and that Apple wanted to not go with a lesser party for their main CPU's. I can still remember pictures of 9600's with that monster heat duct and fan.



    They were using a biCMOS design to clock up the chip. If they just did what Intel did with the P6 microarchitecture (10 stage pipeline) and used a CMOS process, maybe they could have survived. But I think relying on a biCMOS process for high clock rates meant that their design was a dead end.



    Quote:

    I also miss the heyday of the PPC on the desktop: the generation after the first 601's when people were talking about PPC's in game consoles (602), portable PPC's (603), workstation PPC's (604) and super secret server PPC's (620). Nothing like four chips to generate consimer excitement for a platform.



    Those were some fun days. PowerPC still underperformed compared to Alpha, PentiumPro architectures, but it was fun because of the possibilities. Everybody failed to do what was needed to be done. Motorola wasn't willing to fund WinNT/PPC, IBM couldn't deliver on OS/2-PPC, Apple couldn't open itself up all the way, Taligent and Copeland couldn't make it out of the labs, and PowerPC price/performance wasn't all that great. They didn't want to sacrifice the transisters, but the possibilities were endless.



    Quote:

    Right now, Apple has the 970 (workstation/server), the G4 (pro laptop/consumer chip), and the G3 (power conscious consumer). I can't wait for the 750GX and the 750VX to arrive (at which point in time I think the G4 will go bye bye). Things are looking good for the PPC ISA and it seems like there are going to be quite a few chip options for Apple in five to six months. Lots of chip options are the sign of a healthy platform.



    Yes, indeed. There are some chip options, but hopefully the 970 will be in most of Apple's machines (PowerMac, Powerbook, and iMac).
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