WWDC 2003: The Year of the 970?

Posted:
in Future Apple Hardware edited January 2014
Pure speculation...but the everything seems to be coming together. When the G4 was first announced at WWDC in 1999 it was then released at Seybold in August.



First of all, they would need to demo the chip at a developers conference to show them how to develop for it.



Second, won't MacWorld NY and Seybold SF be held in the 3rd quarter for a possible announcement?



Any thoughts on the issue? <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 67
    scottscott Posts: 7,431member
    [quote]Originally posted by Jared:

    <strong>



    Any thoughts on the issue? <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>



    Yea. Same thought here. I think we'll first see the 970 at WWDC. Unless they don't have a running demo box.



    With all the arch' changes in the chip, like 64 bit, developers need to know what to expect.
  • Reply 2 of 67
    kidredkidred Posts: 2,402member
    So the already lagging tower sales dropping to zero for nearly 6 months is ok as a business decision?
  • Reply 3 of 67
    costiquecostique Posts: 1,084member
    [quote]Originally posted by Jared:

    <strong>First of all, they would need to demo the chip at a developers conference to show them how to develop for it.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    PPC 970 is fully backward compatible with G4. This means that Apple may simply skip this step. On the other hand, there are certain key developers which Apple depends on, such as Adobe, Quark and Macromedia. I'm sure they are among the first to test prototype PPC 970 boxes. And don't forget that Steve will want a highly optimized version of Photoshop to demo 970's speed.
  • Reply 4 of 67
    I think that the 970 will be demoed to developers during the WWDC, too (if IBM has advanced enough prototypes by April-May...).



    However, i don't believe that the PPC970 powered Powermacs will be ready by the Macworld NY or Seybold SF: IBM announced that the 970 will be released during the 3rd quarter of 2003, and i'm sure that Apple will wait for 2-3 extra months to optimize the new motherboards designed to receive the 970, and to make sure that IBM is able to produce enough 970 to fulfill Apple's demand (remember the 500MHz fiasco, during the early G4 era...?).



    I believe that the new 970 powered Macs will be released by November or December 2003. Maybe 970 powered Powerbooks will follow by Macworld SF 2004 (it will depend on the power consumption of the chip and on IBM's ability to produce enough CPUs).



    What do you think about that?



    The Nocturnal
  • Reply 5 of 67
    Here's a little something to put the brakes on those of you who think that 970 based machines are coming soon- ATi have no 970 (or G5:-P) based machines from Apple.
  • Reply 6 of 67
    outsideroutsider Posts: 6,008member
    [quote]Originally posted by Pilmour Boy:

    <strong>Here's a little something to put the brakes on those of you who think that 970 based machines are coming soon- ATi have no 970 (or G5:-P) based machines from Apple.</strong><hr></blockquote>

    Because maybe NVidia is going into all the new machines?
  • Reply 7 of 67
    kidredkidred Posts: 2,402member
    [quote]Originally posted by The Nocturnal:

    <strong>I think that the 970 will be demoed to developers during the WWDC, too (if IBM has advanced enough prototypes by April-May...).



    However, i don't believe that the PPC970 powered Powermacs will be ready by the Macworld NY or Seybold SF: IBM announced that the 970 will be released during the 3rd quarter of 2003, and i'm sure that Apple will wait for 2-3 extra months to optimize the new motherboards designed to receive the 970, and to make sure that IBM is able to produce enough 970 to fulfill Apple's demand (remember the 500MHz fiasco, during the early G4 era...?).



    I believe that the new 970 powered Macs will be released by November or December 2003. Maybe 970 powered Powerbooks will follow by Macworld SF 2004 (it will depend on the power consumption of the chip and on IBM's ability to produce enough CPUs).



    What do you think about that?



    The Nocturnal</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Apple is going to demo a machine that won't ship for almost 9 months? That's pMac sale suicide.
  • Reply 8 of 67
    [quote]Originally posted by KidRed:

    <strong>



    Apple is going to demo a machine that won't ship for almost 9 months? That's pMac sale suicide.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Not 9 months! 5-6 months, yes! And they'd demo it to developers (maybe only to key developers during a "secret" conference, I dunno). Plus maybe they'll demo the 970 during the WWDC, announce it at MWNY and ship it by November or December. Who knows?

    But shipping it at MWNY? I don't think so.



    But i might be wrong!



    The Nocturnal
  • Reply 9 of 67
    amorphamorph Posts: 7,112member
    [quote]Originally posted by costique:

    <strong>



    PPC 970 is fully backward compatible with G4. This means that Apple may simply skip this step.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    The G4 is fully backward compatible with the G3, as well. As with the G3-&gt;G4 transition, the G4-&gt;970 transition will bring in a couple of new features without breaking compatibility. But developers - particularly those working on high-end applications - will still be interested in what the differences are.



    As for any fear of PM sales tanking - Apple is apparently bracing for that, because they're now pitching the popular and highly profitable PowerBook line as a desktop replacement. I think they're preparing to weather a local minimum in PowerMac sales in order to ease the transition to a significantly higher performance architecture.
  • Reply 9 of 67
    kidredkidred Posts: 2,402member
    Even 6 months is suicide. Sale suck as it is, imagine telling people 'hey, look, in 6 months we'll have the awesome super fast 970 in a new awesome case'. You expect any idiots to buy a pMac for the next 6 months? That's 0 sales for 6 months. That's suicide. They won't announce until they can take orders and have at least 1 model ready to ship within weeks. I origianlly was told the fall for the 970, but I'm trying to wonder if Apple would deem a press event big enough to showcase the 970. In which case, maybe MWNY would be the better suitor, if, of course, the 970s are ready.
  • Reply 11 of 67
    970 won't be ready for MWNY! By the way, back to the 604e era, everybody (well, by everybody, i mean people who read Mac press and boards...) knew that G3 was about to come 9 months before they actually appeared, and everybody knew that this new CPU kicked ass, but the 604e sales remained very good.



    You know, most Mac user are not informed about upcoming products until they see them on TV ads or in their local stores! Plus most companies buy computers when they need them, and don't worry about upcoming machines.



    The Nocturnal
  • Reply 12 of 67
    amorphamorph Posts: 7,112member
    [quote]Originally posted by KidRed:

    <strong>Even 6 months is suicide. Sale suck as it is, imagine telling people 'hey, look, in 6 months we'll have the awesome super fast 970 in a new awesome case'.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    They don't have to tell anyone that. They certainly didn't when they showed off the G4. There might be people who believe that anything shown off at WWDC is imminent, just like there were people who believed that a 970 PowerMac would come hot on the heels of MPF, but there arne't enough of those to kill PM sales.



    No-one expected the G4 to appear before MWSF, the appearance at WWDC notwithstanding. Furthermore, if Apple really wants to make a splash, the developers have to be ready by launch. Furthermore, WWDC is a tightly controlled environment, with NDAs everywhere. Apple can hold seminars on how to write 64-bit clean code without showing a single person a 970, or even mentioning it. Then a few more people know that it's coming - but then, people have been talking about 970s in Macs for months already.
  • Reply 13 of 67
    rhumgodrhumgod Posts: 1,289member
    [quote]Originally posted by The Nocturnal:

    <strong>970 won't be ready for MWNY!</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Any proof of that?



    [quote]Originally posted by The Nocturnal:

    <strong>By the way, back to the 604e era, everybody (well, by everybody, i mean people who read Mac press and boards...) knew that G3 was about to come 9 months before they actually appeared, and everybody knew that this new CPU kicked ass, but the 604e sales remained very good.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    That was in 1995, before this thing called the Internet really took off, and people had no other recourse for product news.



    We will see the 970 Macs within the next couple of months.
  • Reply 14 of 67
    [quote]Originally posted by Rhumgod:

    <strong>



    That was in 1995, before this thing called the Internet really took off, and people had no other recourse for product news.



    We will see the 970 Macs within the next couple of months.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    That was in 1997, when power users started using this thing called Internet, and when they were used to reading rumors and such things in the specialized press... they were well informed too! and except power users, no one surfes on Appleinsider, you know!



    By the way, i have evidence that the 970 won't be ready for MWNY: IBM reports say so!
  • Reply 15 of 67
    mokimoki Posts: 551member
    [quote]Originally posted by Pilmour Boy:

    <strong>Here's a little something to put the brakes on those of you who think that 970 based machines are coming soon- ATi have no 970 (or G5:-P) based machines from Apple.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    First of all, if they had such machines, they couldn't tell you. If they did, they'd be in a rather large spot of trouble.



    Secondly, with Apple's cozy relationship with NVidia, and their own acquisition of the Raycer team, I wouldn't say that ATI is the yardstick to measure things by.
  • Reply 16 of 67
    outsideroutsider Posts: 6,008member
    [quote]Originally posted by The Nocturnal:

    <strong>



    By the way, i have evidence that the 970 won't be ready for MWNY: IBM reports say so!</strong><hr></blockquote>

    OH! The IBM report! Silly me! Would you be so kind as to point to a link so I can refresh my memory? Thanks!
  • Reply 17 of 67
    yevgenyyevgeny Posts: 1,148member
    [quote]Originally posted by The Nocturnal:

    <strong>970 won't be ready for MWNY! By the way, back to the 604e era, everybody (well, by everybody, i mean people who read Mac press and boards...) knew that G3 was about to come 9 months before they actually appeared, and everybody knew that this new CPU kicked ass, but the 604e sales remained very good.

    The Nocturnal</strong><hr></blockquote>



    That's because the 604e almost had MHz pairity with the G3 when the G3 was released (200 to 233 MHz), and because the 604e was slightly faster when it came to floating point math. Back during this time, I was working sales for ClubMac (paying my way through college) and I would inquire as to what a buyer would be using their box for before making a sale (because I was a CS major, and had a clue about how to advise customers). For most, the G3 was the best product, but for some, the 604e was better (esp. given the price reductions that Apple offered on it, and because the quickitme libraries were MP aware and the G3 still can't do MP).



    This is not the same situation for the G4/970. The 970 is going to kill the G4 in every area and G4 sales are going to die the moment the 970 is officially announced.
  • Reply 18 of 67
    kidredkidred Posts: 2,402member
    [quote]Originally posted by Amorph:

    <strong>



    They don't have to tell anyone that. They certainly didn't when they showed off the G4. There might be people who believe that anything shown off at WWDC is imminent, just like there were people who believed that a 970 PowerMac would come hot on the heels of MPF, but there arne't enough of those to kill PM sales.



    No-one expected the G4 to appear before MWSF, the appearance at WWDC notwithstanding. Furthermore, if Apple really wants to make a splash, the developers have to be ready by launch. Furthermore, WWDC is a tightly controlled environment, with NDAs everywhere. Apple can hold seminars on how to write 64-bit clean code without showing a single person a 970, or even mentioning it. Then a few more people know that it's coming - but then, people have been talking about 970s in Macs for months already.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    So if they demo at WWDC no one in the general public would know? What I'm saying is if it's demoed at the show and word gets out, sales are dead. If they releases it at WWDC but not ship it until November sales are dead. Unless they are prepared to take orders for it.



    Are you sure word wouldn't get out that the 970 was demoed at the WWDC? Also, sales of powermacs are slow for a reason, if people know 6 months from now the 970 will debut with certainty, they will surely be dead.
  • Reply 19 of 67
    [quote]Originally posted by Outsider:

    <strong>

    OH! The IBM report! Silly me! Would you be so kind as to point to a link so I can refresh my memory? Thanks!</strong><hr></blockquote>



    <a href="http://www-3.ibm.com/chips/techlib/techlib.nsf/techdocs/A1387A29AC1C2AE087256C5200611780/$file/PPC970_MPF2002.pdf"; target="_blank">IBM's 970 pdf</a>



    There you go! Sampling during Q2, production expected during H2 (see page 14). Production during H2 means new 970 macs in October-November : just the usual testing time that every computer maker takes when the chip they use is radically new (and i'm not inventing anything here. just repeating what my electronic components designing teacher told us)
  • Reply 20 of 67
    xypexype Posts: 672member
    [quote]Originally posted by KidRed:

    <strong>Also, sales of powermacs are slow for a reason, if people know 6 months from now the 970 will debut with certainty, they will surely be dead.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Not quite, I will likely have to buy one before March - I'll be buying together with 3 other guys and we'd likely get a nice discount. So that's 4 PowerMacs sold, still. It's a weird situation knowing the 970 will come out soon _and_ knowing one will likely have to buy a desktop mac before it happens.



    Unless! Apple announces the 970 PowerMac on February 6th.
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